I'm Seething With Rage

At a comment a classmate of mine made in class. She called Canada a bad place because they put up a monument to "draft dodgers". She's a neocon and proud of it. She calls Kerry a weak liberal on defense.

Yet for some reason, I'm sure she finds *'s actions during Vietnam to be honorable as well as supporting the SBVT. Fact is is that Dubya is a candy ass who took the easy way out unlike the draft dodgers who at least did what they felt was right. I have much more respect for those who fled to Canada than * who used their political connections. Then, there's the fact that John Kerry pulled the most hazardous duty during Vietnam while * was....defending Alabama (but not really) from communism.

Should I call her neocon ass out tomorrow?

And tell her to put up or shut up.

http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.PDF

If you really want to be DU-evil fill it out in advance and just ask for a signature...

n/t

I do like filling out the form and just asking for the signature part,though. "Homeland Security, don't you know? I can get you information anywhere."

Watch out for violence should you decide to take such an action.

Shame the fool.

...she'll either shut-up completely, or she'll fly off the handle to the point that she'll lose whatever respect she had from her fellow NeoCons.

If she supports the SBVT group, I would move on.

I also wouldn't listen to my advice since I have been awake all night.

if left unchecked.

you don't have much hope of swaying her opinion with words. However, producing enlistment papers and asking her to put up or shut up would be a good teaching tool. Good luck.

or something?

... the Vietnam war. If she's in school with you now, likely she wasn't born before the war ended. Ask her if she knows why Canada accepted war objectors. Ask her why she supports a war she knows absolutely nothing about.

Ask her why she supports a man who used his political influence to avoid that war without sacrificing anything, instead of man who had just as much to lose as Bush, but chose to go anyway and then risked his reputation to tell Congress what he thought about the government's war.

Ask her why Bush has lied about or obscured virtually everything in his past. Ask her why such a person should be trusted as president.

Finally, ask her why she's such a willing shill for liars, war profiteers and fascists. Ask her if she even knows what a fascist is.

Chances are she won't know the answers to any of those questions.

if she knows any Guardsmen or Reservists who have been deployed to Iraq. Ask her if she thinks its a great idea that these people have to buy their own protective gear. Ask her if she thinks its wonderful that Bush's regime has cut funding to military families and to disabled vets.

Discussing these things usually shuts neocons up and fast.

It was an idea for a monument made up by some small local government in Canada. They called it off when everyone said it was dumb.

If the Vietnam war taught us anything, it is that those who reported for duty are heroes and those that shirked their duty are cowards. Why memorialize cowards?

not cooperating with an establishment bent on the mass murder of viet namese civilians was a duty!
these people in many cases are heros -- thye risked their futures to stop the unnecessary blood shed that the viet nam war was really about.
stupid, just stupid.

it was sponsored by a private group, not "some small local government".

As a woman, I didn't have to face the draft. However, I'm quite aware of the effects on the young men of my generation. I had no problem at all with those who opposed the war and did not serve. None that I knew had any special pull. Some stayed in grad school (Bush was too stupid). One went to Canada; because of his mind & education, he would have been given far safer duty than most. But he thought the war was wrong, so he left.

Bush was a sniveling chickenhawk who thought the war was just great--when he thought at all. But he had all kinds of strings pulled so he could get safe duty. Then he couldn't even fulfill that limited obligation.

When did you serve?

I didn't exist for most of the Vietnam War. I spent nine months of it in utero. I was a small child for part of the Nixon administration.

I don't deserve a monument and neither do the bums who shirked their duty, leaving those who did not have the economic capacity to flee to take their places in Johnson's meat grinder.

The Vietnam war started long before Johnson even entered into politics. Vietnam was a French colony long before World War II. During World War II the colony was taken over by the Japanese. The Japanese were fought hand and tooth by the Vietnamese. The Japanese left Vietnam after their surrender to the Allied forces (i.e. Douglas MacArthur). At that time French decided to move back in do what they went there for in the first place, to mine for tin and nickel and do some oil exploration. During the late 1950's the French Government could no longer justify the profit of mining and the cost of fighting the Vietnamese. The de Gaulle government (i.e. the French) threaten to wage a publicity program against Eisenhower government (i.e. the U.S.A.) if they did not take action against Ho Chi Min (i.e. the Vietnamese leader). The de Gaulle threat was to say that Eisenhower was soft on communism and send evidence to Joe McCarthy (remember him, Ann Coulter's hero). So Eisenhower sent advisers to Vietnam. John Kennedy wanted to pull the advisers out Vietnam, but was assassinated before be could do so. Johnson, learning of the problems of the Vietnam War upon taking office said and I will quote, "They are going to take this war and shove it right up my ass", end quote.

Mr. Kirk, please learn your history before making a statement like this. It makes us look ignorant. The war was a farce.


edit: spelling

The Vietnam War taught us that there are times when people of good conscience cannot blindy allow their lives to be ruined by a government hell-bent on using them as pawns in political struggle.

The people who went to 'nam are heroes as are those who left the country of their birth rather than be conscripted into a war they didn't believe in.

I used to have his speeches on tape, when he talks about going to Berkely, and sending his draft cards back to the fed, and getting all his friends to send their's back as well.

(This was Joan Baez's husband at the time.) I think he served about 5 years, he went to jail instead of Canada.

it is something a group of people, private citizens, wanted to do and they have the right. It is interesting that the same people that want to tell Canada what to do are horrified if we Canadians express our opinion on your upcoming election. Hypocrisy yet again, imo.

that's all. If someone from Canada or France farted in the general direction of an American flag, it would be front page news in the morning. We are as sick of it as you are.

SC_Dem you need to KICK her neocon ass and KICK IT HARD.

That will stump her.

Those who had the economic advantages and connections that allowed them to travel to Canada and dodge the draft shifted the burden of military service to the poor and minorities who did not have that option.

Our nation needed them to defend us and they did not report for duty. As has been previously established, being A.W.O.L. for even a single day or disobeying even a single order is contemptible. Draft dodgers don't deserve a monument for what they did.

>>Our nation needed them to defend us<<

Defend us from what?

IMO, it took a lot of guts for people to stand against what they believed was an unjust war, and do something as radical as leaving the country they loved, rather than kill untold numbers of innocent Vietnamese citizens.



Remember, Dissent IS patriotic.

-chef-

You state:

"Our nation needed them to defend us and they did not report for duty. As has been previously established, being A.W.O.L. for even a single day or disobeying even a single order is contemptible. Draft dodgers don't deserve a monument for what they did."

Just what were the soldiers in Vietnam defending America from? Were the Vietnamese any threat to America? Were they getting into canoes and heading for the USA, bent on invasion? What Americans, other than those sent to Vietnam to be cannon fodder, were ever in danger from anyone in Vietnam?

I would be impressed if you could convince me, logically, that anyone in America was endangered and in need of being defended, during the Vietnam War.

Perhaps a monument to draft dodgers is not really quite the thing, but I can't blame anyone for refusing to take part in a war that was nothing more than a ploy to benefit the French, and then various military contractors in the USA.

Remind her about Canada's war service :( We earned our way in this world and our citizens can make choices about erecting monuments if we so choose to.
Don't knock MY country, ditzy neocon freeper girl. :mad:

"hey! 911 HAPPENED ON YOUR GUY'S WATCH"! Then if she says "yeah but he'd just taken office". You say, "he'd been in office for 9 months, well 8 actually if you don't count the MONTH he was on VACATION".