Are Kerry/Edwards Pulling A Rope-A-Dope? Conceding AND Fighting?

Kerry and Bush can't elect themselves. Doesn't the EC still have to count votes cast?

What power do we have to effect state-by-state challenges of cast out votes and uncounted absentee ballots. Could they swing the totals our way in enough close states?

Wouldn't Kerry be obliged to accept a corrected vote that put him over the top and took Bush down below 270?

What if the autenticated vote makes Kerry a winner now?

There's hope for what you're suggesting.

NGU.

JE is pissed and is up to something.

don't want to set myself up for a disappointment. of course, i couldn't be anymore disappointed than i am right now, right? so what have i got to lose? :) and upset as i was this morning about kerry conceeding, the signs and bumperstickers are still on my car. they will stay on too. i am holding on to some hope that JK will come through in the final moments.

reading all the post in this thread made me feel better about the votes and the counting. :kick::kick::kick:

deny!deny!deny!deny!deny!deny!deny!deny!

i may never listen to them, but i'm usually not wrong on my hunches. kerry strikes me as a tough street kind of fighter. for him to conceed before the votes have all been counted (esp. when there are SO many absentee and provisional votes). it just doesn't sound right to me. and like you guys are saying on this thread, maybe there are greater things going on behind the scene than is being told. i certainly can't rule that out. and don't want to. this thread is making me feel better about the entire morning.


NO VOTES LEFT BEHIND!!! :How's that for a kick in the pants? :)

that every vote gets counted. It may not be sufficient in the end to change the result, and that would be bad enough. But if every vote gets counted, and any fraud gets prosecuted, I will at least feel like they (we) did all we could!

I live in NC where the cities are liberal and counties are conservative. Poor blacks and poor whites are left behind in education. Is it possible, that Dems registered many new voters in places like here, all over the country, and those people were too uneducated to understand how to vote???? I spoke to many 1st timers who were VERY CONFUSED about not only the process but who they should vote for. They understood democratic...but if you vote straight Dem you still have to Vote for prez. Did they vote for Shrub because they don't even know who Kerry is?? Did they "Vote for The President" instead of the Candidate? I think that may be where all the votes went. Your opinions PLEEEEEZE

on my birthday, I figure you are okay :evilgrin:

I think you may be right. And, of course, they were not allowed any translation or help. Who the hell knows? I know I don't...not anymore.

:toast: Welcome, btw, to a very sad DU. However, we WILL prevail because we are going to stay MAD...Motivated, Aggressive, and Determined!

Jenn

The electoral college won't base their decision on a concession speech if Kerry indicates shortly beforehand that he would accept their verdict.

When I heard that Kerry was going to give a concession speech, that's what went through my mind. It's far from over.

...but someone earlier today suggested that Kerry was pulling a 1960 Nixon. That is, winning the PR war by conceding gracefully, while ramping up the fight behind the scenes. Maybe it won't work. But maybe it will. Keep hope alive.

NGU.

they have our voter defense contributions and the a-team of lawyers ready.

"winning the PR war by conceding gracefully, while ramping up the fight behind the scenes"

...then I want to know about it. What can we do to help?

BTW, I keep hearing Edwards was obviously pissed and gave a better "concession" speech than did Kerry. Since I couldn't bring myself to listen to it, can some one fill me in on what exactly he (Edwards) said?

"...we will fight to make sure that every vote is counted." I got the impression that he thinks it just might change the results.

NGU.

I watched his face very carefully... and I saw no sign of defeat in it, I really didn't. My thought is that John Edwards now has nothing but TIME on his hands...

while giving them nothing to harp about...

is to wait and see who won.

If we take to the streets, it will look like a coup.

Kerry did the honorable thing, to at least let people know who their president is while we have troops on the ground. It will help with the continuity.

This reversal, if it comes, will come swiftly and decisively. There will be no questioning it, if it comes from Blackwell. I don't trust the guy, myself. I think he's a tool. But he does seem to be a by-the-book kind of person, using the letter of the law to try to disenfranchise registrations on lightweight paper. He's not about to violate Ohio law. He will count every legal vote.

I don't doubt the Republicans will question some of the votes, but if we ramp this up, they'll question every single one. No, our lawyers are on it. They're watching. Don't distract them.

Okay, Michael Moore can come film it. On second thought, not him, but one of those other filmmakers.

If we keep this low-key, we win.

I can't believe they are just sitting around feeling depressed with all of the staff and lawyers. They've got to be at least looking into the possible cheating. I'm afraid to get my hopes up again too though.

I would like to think this is the case

he didn't challenge the vote count in Illinois on account of that he thought that it would divide the nation, thus earning him PR points and eventually, the Republican nomination and the White House in '68. Believe it or not, there was a time when people said Nixon had integrity.

heavily in the state of Illinois. And an investigation would have had an implication on his career. You've fallen for some repuke propaganda.

My bad. He said he wasn't challenging it b/c he thought it would "divide the nation." Nixon never really had integrity, it just seemed that way for a fleeting moment in 1960.

...of the Nixon reference. He looked like a big man for that fleeting moment.

NGU.

He didn't find the voting fraud he thought was there, but wasn't labelled a "Sore-Loserman."

NGU.

the "help is on the way" and "I will fight for you" rhetoric was just that. I feel completely betrayed. :-(

NGU.

Do you think we'll have a fair election NEXT TIME?

Do you think this one will end with a surprise Kerry victory?

I've got a realistic attitude. If you feel it's "empty", so be it.

They don't want to admit that Kerry let us down by conceding early. Which he did, by the way.

And there will be no more fair elections unless we get rid of the machines and get smart on voting fraud.

This is just more of the Pollyanna crap that made the loss so much more painful. I will no longer listen to the Pollyanna pundits of DU. I guess I'm into realism. And the only hope is two-pronged: go after the voting fraud and go after the media.

Kerry let us down. We need to find our own victory in 2006.

I have the attitude that no matter how badly these scumbags beat us, I WON'T GIVE UP.

I don't know what the result will be, but we have a unique opportunity to demand that every vote be counted. If it serves no other purpose than as a symbol of doing what's right, it's still worth doing.

NGU.

what are you actually doing other than posting on DU?

I fought for Kerry; not on the internet, but on the ground. I worked for the campaign. They used the same strategy three elections in a row, with the same outcome and the same plea for unity. They ARE defeated-they seem to be hellbent on defeat!! Either the Democratic party reforms NOW or it is dead. That's reality.

But I'm not giving up. I'm doing much, in addition to posting here. Believe it or not. It's your prerogative. But I refuse to give up hope.

Incidentally, anyone who believed this would all be over November 3rd is delusional. No, it didn't play out how we expected - neither of the two scenarios we expected - but that doesn't mean it's over. It's never over.

NGU.

NGU.

:kick:

Good for you, my friend...

NGU.

nationwide.

It's up to individual voters to step up and file suit or ask the campaign to do it for them if these votes don't get counted.

CONTACT: 614-466-2585

Also... sign up for updates at http://nov3.us.

NGU.

Prepare for Action on and after Nov 3rd!

Organize a public gathering places on November 3rd to assess what is happening and what your plan of action will be if it is unclear who really won. Please post your event under Directory of Local Actions (http://www.unitedforpeace.org/calendar.php?caltype=26&lcountry=USA&state=Select+A+State&bydate%5Bmonth%5D=10&bydate%5Bday%5D=12&bydate%5Byear%5D=2004&Search=Search)as soon as possible. These may be opportunities for protests or community meetings.

You can download a PDF poster (http://nov3.us/votersguideposter.pdf) and we have created a sample press release (http://nov3.us/PR01.php) for your use.

We've got your back John!

At the Old Federal Building on the east end of Wisconsin Avenue.

NGU.

Nov3.us is not Kerry.

If Kerry comes back for us, I will retract my words, but I don't think he will. He let us down, big time.

JK said himself "We will count ALL of The Votes" Sounds like the just don't want the media coming down on them.

even though kerry has conceded. i am hoping kerry and edwards chose this strategy to muzzle the rw media zombies while the vote counting continues.

Wonder what the corporate media whores are going to discuss tonight?

NGU.

... big void

Heard NPR devote several minutes to the murder case last night

.

drawing public ire.

But we should not be dissuaded from counting all of the votes. Remember, a lot of Democrats voted absentee to avoid the touchscreen. Millions of those votes nationwide have yet to be tallied. They normally have a week to report these. In a small population state, 2-3 percentage points could mean as little as 3,000 votes. 6-7,000 absentee votes could provide the margin of difference.

I'm hoping there's some serious behind the scenes maneuvering going on. I tried to call the Kerry campaign HQ a little while ago. The answering machine is on and the mailbox is full. I sent an e-mail and left a message of support last night. Apparently a lot of others did as well. Part of the shock from the concession is that people who got through last night to talk to a live body got an entirely different message than what we heard today, and John Edwards' speech last night sounded as though the fight was far from over.

I just hope all of the votes are counted and someone is looking in to the irregularities. If I really thought * won, that would be one thing. But it's not adding up that way for me. I'm just sick that it's come to this, again. It's a nightmare.

Never Give Up.

Thank you!

We can do it, my friend.

NGU.

I called at 11:30 to see if the concession were really true. The girl who answered the phone said yes, and I burst into tears (I've been doing that a lot today). I said, "How can he do that?" and she said, "Well, nothing's been decided for certain yet,". At the time, I thought she just wanted to get me off the phone. Now I'm not so sure.

At least that much is true - and they could well be pulling a rope-a-dope here!!

I hope you guys are right.

We promised ourselves that we wouldn't roll over again!

They are not giving up on us at all.

With all those lawyers, they are not taking this sitting down.

The momentum needs to come from us, not Kerry!

For him to do it would be tacky.

But for us to do it, what can he say.

I think we learned this year that the old saw about democracy is truer than ever: When the people lead, the will leaders follow.

NGU.

It just didn't make any sense that they would wait for the count!

I agree with everything except "the momentum needs to come from us".

This cannot look like a coup. The people who need to count the votes will do so without a media circus, without protests, just "here are the facts". Whoever wins, wins.

As hard as it is for most of us active participants, the best course now is to pretend we lost--to go along with it. But in the back of your mind, say "we'll see who won".


On edit: unless by "the momentum needs to come from us" you mean that the impetus should be the will of the voters, in which case I agree 100%.

Also: Maybe I'm being too cautious here. Recounts can be disputed, but first counts should not be. Hard to picture even Karl Rove sending his staffers out to disrupt the first count. But if there's a riot, nothing changes. I say we follow Kerry's lead and play rope-a-dope for awhile.

I still have hope that something will happen in the next couple of weeks that could completely turn this situation.

Concession speeches mean nothing. People saying he's given up are ignoring the parts of his and Edward's speech where he indicated they ARE still following the vote counting. Now, having said that, I don't think they will have the margin to win out in Ohio, but they're probably smart enough to realize that even though they may have lost for now, there's a long fight ahead of them to get the country back on track, even with them not in the White House.

...there's a symbolic fight to win. That will solidify us as a force. And that will be the real victory.

NGU.

like - They have the people, but we have the votes. Does anyone have that quote. If so, can they put if up on here as it should be sent to the Kerry people.

I am so glad to see others still holding on to something. I'm not going to fully give up until every ballot is tallied.
---------------------


This letter references the following story:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/voter.turnout.ap/index.html
---------------------

Dear Senator Kerry:

I commend and thank you for your gracious speech, and for the gift that you have given to your supporters. You gave us hope and dared us to dream. I questioned why, with an estimated 6 million votes still uncounted and the vote tallies tantalizingly close in several states, you would choose to concede. It seemed premature.

Perhaps you, as a candidate, were privy to more information about those uncounted ballots than the public. It does seem odd, since CNN itself is unsure of the number even to the hundreds of thousands, that you could know where these ballots were cast--but perhaps it is so, and you know that not enough of these ballots come from states that could swing the election.

Alternatively, perhaps you know something about these ballots and suspect that they could swing the election to you, and you want to allow the system to play itself out and the votes to be tallied without the interference of lawsuits. If you have not given up all hope in these uncounted ballots, if you believe that there is a chance for them to change the election, then it is better for this nation for these ballots to be counted in an orderly manner without the media circus and "taint" in the eyes of the public that lawsuits would cause. Had you chosen to wait until all these ballots were tallied, and the final tally showed Bush winning, it would be very difficult for many in this nation to respect either of you again. You will always have the respect of some of us--those of us who worked for you, who put our hearts into this campaign, who wept for you and for America today. But there are others who would not respect you had you, with the situation as it stands today, chosen to drag out the proceedings and still come up short. It would have tarred you and your supporters with the stigma of wanting to litigate one's way into the White House, even if every ballot had been completely legitimate. Now that this specter will not be hanging over the counting of these final ballots, the results will be untainted in the mind of the public. If there is a chance for these last ballots to alter the election, and that last spark of hope were to blaze forth into a roaring fire of victory, then you would have the devotion and utmost respect of Americans for taking the high ground, and you would truly be the uniter that this nation so desperately needs.

I observed that, whatever you said on the phone, you did not actually concede the state of Ohio to George Bush in your public speech. Although you said that you did not believe you had enough votes from the provisional ballots, you in fact called for these and all other as yet uncounted ballots to be counted.

Your gift to us was hope, and I am reluctant to give up that hope yet. These 6 million uncounted ballots are the last hope that we can cling to. With the popular vote margin at about 3.5 million, it is still possible for not just an electoral but a popular vote victory for you as well. Some may call this denial. Maybe it is; only time will tell. But you told us to hold on to hope. You told us to fight and never back down. As long as this final hope remains, I will indeed cling to it.

I want to believe that you gave your congratulations to Bush in order to provide some semblance of unity. There are many among your supporters who do not trust Bush at all and do not wish to compromise with someone like him. You must have a greater trust in the goodness of humanity and are in that respect a better person than we are.

Senator Kerry, if this turns out to be the end, and that last hope does not deliver--then we will need you more than ever. You promised that you would not forget us and would never stop fighting. Please--we beg of you, hold to that promise.

God bless and be with you.

It hits this thread right on the head, and trumps it.

There's GOTTA be more to this. All the $$$, all the lawyers... the Red Sox manager's plane.... Edwards not wanting to concede... the phone conversation somebody mentions in this thread....

There are allegations of fraud all over the blogosphere. And, even if nothing can be done about that, there are these millions of absentee ballots.

If there is something going on, I hope it does not get leaked. Ambush the SOBs.

The media would be on Kerry if he hadn't given that speech and we all know it. The lazy, shilling, irresponsible media were so determined to call this a * win, despite the millions of votes, that this may well have been Kerry's best shot. Throw the idiots off the scent and let them salivate over their boy king while the real work goes on behind the scenes.

Giving the enemy an apparent victory while reloading behind the scenes for the political equivalent of a guerilla war.

MAN THE SWIFT BOAT!

If this is what they're up to, then I gotta say.... they are freaking brilliant. I mean... damn. Everybody loves an underdog who comes up from behind, and it would make the bushies look like the bad guys if JK were proven to be the EV winner and they wouldn't let go. (I still think popular vote is too optimistic, even for this thread. Possible, but not likely.)

And it is a military tactic, so JK would definitely be familiar with its use.

and are watching/manipulating the count?

Absolutely brilliant. Now I'm getting teary with hope rather than dispair.

This thread have made my day a hell of a lot better.
Man i'm glad to have found this site!

I found DU after the last election debacle, and it does help. A LOT.

Welcome to DU, Northern Experiment! :toast:

Some people may be weary of you at first because we get infiltrated by hostile repubs. Just ignore 'em and get the support that you need here. The revolution is on the internet!

That would create a Supreme Court 4-4 split....
and Antonin Scalia would be shitting in his pants!

optimist...I'm willing to wait and see.

:)

NGU.

as signatories to the Pledge of Action to Stop A Stolen Election

"I remember the stolen presidential election of 2000 and I am willing to take action in 2004 if the election is stolen again. I support efforts to protect the right to vote leading up to and on Election Day, November 2nd. If that right is systematically violated, I pledge to join nationwide protests starting on November 3rd, either in my community, in the states where the fraud occurred, or in Washington DC."

Initial signatories:
Stewart Acuff - Organizing Director, AFL-CIO
Fred Azcarate - Jobs with Justice
Patrick Barrett - RadFest: Midwest Social Forum
Brian Benford - Madison Common Council
Medea Benjamin - CodePink
Adrienne Maree Brown - League of Pissed Off Voters
Mike Brune - Rainforest Action Network
Dennis Brutus - poet
Andrea Buffa - Global Exchange
Linda Burnham - Women of Color Resource Center
Julian Bond - NAACP
Leslie Cagan - United for Peace and Justice
Tim Carpenter - Progressive Democrats of America
John Cavanagh - Institute for Policy Studies
Steve B. Cobble - political strategist
David Cobb - Green Presidential Nominee
Rev. James Demus - NAACP, Chicago
Charlie Derber - Boston College
Karen Dolan - Policy Studies & Cities for Peace
Theresa El-Amin - Southern Anti-Racism Network
Daniel Ellsberg - author
Barbara Ehrenreich - author
Larry Fahn - Sierra Club
Kathay Feng - Asian Pacific American Legal Center
Lisa Fithian - Root Activist Network of Trainers
Arun Gandhi - M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence
Janeane Garofalo - Actress, Comedienne
Ed Garvey - Fighting Bob Fest
Greg Gerritt - Friends of the Moshassuck
Ted Glick - National Coordinator, IPPN
Jim Goodman - Family Farm Defenders
Rev. Graylan Hagler - Ministers for Justice
Jody Grage Haug - Green Peace Action (GPAX)
Andy Heidt - Madison Common Council
Dolores Huerta - United Farm Workers
Rev. Jesse Jackson - Rainbow/PUSH
Reverend James Lawson - civil rights leader

Natalie Johnson Lee - Minneapolis City Council
Van Jones - Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
Rabbi Michael Lerner - Tikkun
Pete Karas - Racine Common Council
Brenda Konkel - President, Madison Common Council
Doug La Follette - Wisconsin Secretary of State
Barbara Lubin - Middle East Children's Alliance
Ben Manski - Liberty Tree
Jessica Marshall - National Youth and Student Peace Coalition
Elizabeth Martinez - Institute for Multiracial Justice
Mike McCabe - Wisconsin Democracy Campaign
Robert McChesney - Free Press
Michael Moore - Author
Holly Near - singer-songwriter
John Nichols - writer
Maya O'Connor - Labor Greens Network
Jamala Rogers - Organization for Black Struggle, St. Louis
Rebecca Rotzler - Alder, New Paltz
Marc Sanson - Co-Chair, Green Party of the US
Renee Saucedo - La Raza Centro Legal
John Sellers - Ruckus Society
Charles Shaw - Newtopia Magazine
Jane Slaughter - Labor Notes
Eleanor Smeal - Feminist Majority
Damu Smith - founder, Black Voices for Peace
Starhawk - activist and writer
Gloria Steinem - author and feminist activist
Ajita Talwalker - United States Students Association
Chuck Turner - Boston City Council
Chris Vaeth - This Time We're Watching
Rabbi Arthur Waskow - The Shalom Center
Jason West - Mayor, New Paltz NY
Bob Wing - War Times
Dean Zimmermann - Minneapolis City Council
Howard Zinn - historian

http://nov3.us/

Because every vote counts!

...with counting all the votes?

NGU.

but cant hold my breath..

it sure would be wonderful news if that happened..

NGU.

I had heard on various news shows (I know, I know...media crap), that now that Kerry has conceded, there will be no more votes counted. Could they mean there will be no "recounts?" If they do keep counting and it does change the electoral count, would The Fascist (Shrub) have to concede? This is very confusing. I want to hold out hope that our country hasn't been sold down the tubes, but things are so bleak. I am looking for honest answers to my questions...not guess. Thanks in advance!

Call them yourself and ask. CONTACT: 614-466-2585

Also... sign up for updates at http://nov3.us.

NGU.

I hear that there are not enough ballots to really make a difference. Is it ONLY Ohio being counted? Could another state change? Thanks for your quick response! :)

This is a matter of principle and unity.

NGU.

not that it matters to some.

The only "concession" that would matter would be if this counting took place, put him in front in EV, and he refused to accept the presidency in spite of it. (At which point I would actually be pretty pissed at him... I am not yet.) I do not know what would happen then.

Were he to actually eke out enough EVs without a 2000esque media circus, he'd be LOVED by the public for being the "good guy."

THE CONCESSION SPEECH IS LEGALLY MEANINGLESS.

Why do so many have a problem getting this through their heads?

THE CONCESSION SPEECH IS LEGALLY MEANINGLESS.

CNN's estimate is 5.5 to 6 million nationally. There WAS record voting: 120 million votes cast. 114 million counted. 3.7 popular vote margin. Margin of some thousands in several close states.

I cannot think of a single valid reason why these votes would not be counted. In 2000, even after Gore conceded the first time, they were going to count those ballots and include them in the tally. It is law.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/voter.turnout.ap/index.html

AFTER the absentee ballots were counted.

:evilgrin:

me i'm a campaign worker. met all the lawyers they bussed in. don't know if they're still here... but i have my suspicions.

votes all over NM are being challenged and litigated right now... IMO it's still up in the air... i don't necessarily think we'll win... but at least we can expose some of the shit out there

:crazy:

I will dance and gloat, a lot.

lots of democrats did.

In Wisconsin, that date, set by the State Elections board, is December 1.

What if the voter certification PROVED Kerry won Ohio, or even Florida? Would the electoral college be obliged to vote for the actual results, or just the perceived results?

Gee, I'm feeling better already!

Always.

NGU.

Some states bind electors to their pledges (I don't know which ones), but most don't. When the EC convenves, most electors can vote for whomever, but nearly all will vote for the candidate who won their state. As for actual v. perceived results, to answer that question requires a gift of prophecy that I do not have.

We need to face facts. The votes simply are not there.

It's a matter of principle. And a helluva device to make sure we all stay united.

NGU.

lots of them from Democrats who wanted a paper trail.

In fact, they should be counted.

But don't count on this changing the outcome.

But it will be a moral victory.

NGU.

According to Kos there may be 1.6 million uncounted ballots in Florida. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/84531/7527

I have not heard this number anywhere except there. It is definitely possible though, given the diebold problem and the number of people who requested a paper ballot.

Kerry trails by 376,918 votes according to CNN. To make up the diff he would need 376,919 more of these ballots than George.

1,600,000 - 376,919 = 1,223,081

Kerry now needs to carry 50% of these.

1,223,081 / 2 = 611,541.

611,541 + 376,919 = 988,640.

988,640 / 1,600,000 = 61.78 percent.


IF the Kos #s are accurate, Kerry would need 62 percent of the FL absentee ballots to flip the state.

What's the call?

Moveon went down to Florida and encouraged, and in fact insisted that Florida Democrats vote by absentee.

THAT was their idiotic protest of the touch screen machines.

Problem is, unless the official count is close, they never count the absentee ballots.

This is damn straight shit when I say, moveon cost us Florida.

375K lead when 1.6M are still out there seems like it should qualify. It's definitely enough of a difference to tip the election... that should be enough cause to count them.

Also... why would K/E say that they intended to have all the ballots counted, if they didn't mean it? Lots of people in this forum are quick to believe that he abandoned us, based on that speech.

I still say it was to get the media and GOP off his case, something that Gore failed to do. Had they not mentioned anything about counting all the ballots, fine, I could go for the "he gave up" theory. But let's be rational... if they really believe that there is no chance, and these absentee ballots do not have to be counted by law, then... well... why waste anyone's time doing it? Don't give me the "democracy" or "American way" or anything like that... If there is no hope, and no legal requirement for it, then there is no practical point in insisting on a full count.

True, they're even more powerful if they have practical results, but they're powerful in and of themselves.

NGU.

I think it's our duty to make sure they abide by the law.

NGU.

of precincts have been counted.

Most of the counties have counted the absentees, but several haven't.

http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/

:shrug:

Just something of interest.

NGU.

13,000 Ballots Rushed From Voting Site, Must Be Recounted
http://www.local6.com/news/3879408/detail.html

200 Unsigned Absentee Ballots Discarded In Orange
http://www.local6.com/politics/3882179/detail.html

have ANY provisional ballots. Given all the freeperishness of the voter challenges, this strikes me as odd...:shrug:

Info obtained from your link.

NGU.

and much smarter than me. Which is very good.
I never wanted a president that was dumber than me and am not happy looking at another 4 years of one.

:kick: for hope

I believe John Edwards is connected to the best corporate trial lawyers on the planet.

Kerry's "ultra elite" societal inner circle knows the Sull&Bones game also.

May the best man win!

although it wouldn't hurt bush if he gave Geronimo's skull back.

They're Public Protection Attorneys, and they make sure you and your children are safe from corporate irresponsibility. And election theft.

NGU.

:kick:

for what it's worth....................

It's spooking my friends. I believe John Kerry won. He belongs in the White House, beginning in 2005 *knock on wood*

:dem:

I kept crying and swearing. I feel more exhausted than peaceful tonight.

NGU.

i am hurting too...but lets not cling onto something which most probably will lead us nowhere :-(.

also, what hurts right now is that we were so up yesterday. the expected turnout, the exit numbers. people quoting freepers, and talkin about cabinet posts. buying champagne, etc. i am tired of going up to down to up to down.

all that said, i hope and pray that what you guys say is true. i hope and pray.

...if the votes are there. All I want is a true, accurate count. That's all I expect. It's all I deserve. Especially for all the hard work I put into this. Especially because the American people responded with a record turnout at the polls.

It's the least we should get.

NGU.

So you're one of those word-haters, huh? Relax... words are your friends... :7

NGU.

an force him to acknowledge the equally divided nation. He's claiming an overwhelming vote margin in his favor. I say it's closer than 4 million votes given the number of Democrats who opted for absentee ballots to avoid the Diebold machines and have a paper trail.

NGU.

I think I'm going to keep it.

Kerry and Edwards would have my undying support if this were the case.

NOW is the time to flood the JK/JE HQ and demand it. Write LTTEs and demand it. Call your legislators and demand it. And be sure to keep it all in perspective - note post #101.

NGU.

Their faxes are flooded. I think they're doing this already.

They had a choice this morning: draw this thing out and have a civil war that neither side would accept, or sit back and let all the votes be counted.

The concession means nothing. They know that.

Please God let it be...

Call, write, email, and visit your newspapers, congresspeople, local campaign staff (while they're still around), Kerry and Edwards' Senate offices, etc. After all we did to get them elected, the least they can do is keep their word. I keep remembering "No Retreat, No Surrender."

NGU.

Kerry conceded since there is VERY LITTLE chance he will win. It makes him look more like a gentleman and in the end will help unite america further and not make this election go on for a painfully long and divisive time like before. If kerry does by some miracle end up winning then hell yeah he will except it.

But this isn't about winning. It's about MAKING SURE EVERY VOTE IS COUNTED.

NGU.

Provisional ballot totals by county.
Note 0 for Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach reported... heavy Dem areas. No way.
Probably not enough but should still be counted if valid.
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/20041102_PROV.html

Table containing data by county... absentees included/not included, final report or not, turnout %..
Palm Beach again incomplete. Absentees not included.
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/20041102_STAT.html

To be honest, I don't know how much of the vote is left to be counted in that state, because I can't find numbers about how many absentee ballots were requested and how many are already in. I do find it very hard to believe that the election results will be certified w/o the absentee ballots counted.

But still... IF there are anything like 1M votes left, then... count the votes!! You never know what might result from it. It's the RIGHT THING TO DO.

:dem:

he didn't want the votes counted. But they will be counted.

I am happier about being properly represented that I would be about winning. I know it's a cliche, but I am proud that we played a good game and played fair. Stealing is not satisfying.

John Kerry is a true hero.

:kick:

Texas, New Mexico, Florida and Ohio .... AT LEAST those states. There have been people from all these states that, when they chose "Kerry", the machine checked "bush". There are affidavits to this effect in some areas.

These machines were giving bush an additional 10% victory over exit polling, where in other areas WITHOUT touch-screens, the exit polling was spot on!

SoCalDem was doing the research on these numbers last night/ this morning. Someone needs to get that research to the Kerry team NOW!!! The programming (which is of course "proprietary business information", and therefore out of the view of prying eyes) could prove FRAUD in the election....and I wouldn't be a BIT surprised if we saw a bunch of Senate and House seats with questionable programming, as well.

But to investigate, they would have to impound the machines, or the cards, or whatever, to see what the programming was.

O8)Oh Dear God I wish they would!! O8) Until these machines are EXPOSED for their corruptability, this country doesn't stand ANY chance of Democracy, ever again. There is NO public oversight of elections with these things being made "secret"!!!!

:kick::kick:

They gave up. Anxiously.

There is growing evidence of MAJOR vote fraud by Bushco - see whatreallyhappened.com.

If true, it needs to be exposed.

NGU.

that if I voted for him he would never quit fighting for me! He hasn't ever quit! I don't think Kerry/Edwards have rolled over yet either!

And it worked like a charm. Sometimes you have to be willing to accept a few flesh wounds until you are in a position to deliver the decisive blow.

do you really think they are looking into this? I DOUBT IT. I don't think they are still fighting or whatever

what they are probably doing:

* relaxing
* doing boring legal work, signing papers
* comforting and hugging each other

You think they are "fighting" for each last vote? i doubt it.

and congratulating themselves for not having to "put this country through" the dreary, difficult process of having every vote count.

Then yes, they are fighting.

My God, I am so mad at Kerry right now.

but they have given us nothing to hope for...god how i wish we had someone who knew what they were doing right now. SOMEONE SPEAK UP. GIVE US THE TRUTH EVEN IF IT HURTS.

Wow, what kind of kool-aid did they offer you - orange or grape??

NGU.

Every vote counts and every vote will be counted.
No retreat. No surrender.

They weren't lying.