Oh My God this loss is a godsend!

I am so relieved. I think this may be the best of all scenarios!

We represented ourselves! I felt that John Kerry represented me.

We did it with pride and honor. We stood up for what we believe in - true moral values.

I believe we ran a better contest and we bested the other side. Both sides know in their heart who the best man is.

The other side lied, cheated and stole. They have nothing but a hollow illusion of victory - a stolen trophy to try to pretend they won the race.


John Kerry doesn't have to take on the mess that Bush created. It's all
Bush. There is nothing they can whine about - we are out of the picture.

The media is spinning trying to pretend that there is some problem with our party, but we performed perfectly. Don't change a thing people. Nothing left to do but relax and enjoy their self cannibalism. I believe that destructive power destroys itself.

You sound like a security guard promising to do a better job next time while the thief is running through the parking lot laughing.

Funny thing... in most cases like this the security guard is in on it!

Now is NOT time to get over it.

It is time to Fight.

The thief hasn't even left the store yet.

The Democratic nominee wins the presidency...after 2 years, the Bush mess is mostly cleaned up.

The Republicans officially begin saying, "See, Bush was fixing EVERYthing."

Just like Clinton. We all know Bush I had things going in the right direction. He fixed everything all up and Clinton reaped the benefits. Then Clinton fucked everything up but we didn't see the effects until Jr. :P

Try 20. At least. And that's if we can take back Congress.

that Stevens, Ginsburg, and maybe O'connor could hold out until the next election in 2008? I know O'connor isn't exactly progressive but she's not a nutjob like the three stooges (Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas). I really don't think Stevens and Ginsburg want the chimp to replace them.

Maybe we can get the senate back in 2006. Maybe even the house if Bush fucks up enough. Then we can impeach him or at least block his nominees until 2008.

Stevens is 84, Ginsberg is 71. Rehnquist is 80, Scalia, Breyer, Kennedy, Souter and O'Connor roughly in the same age range (mid-late 60's). Thomas is the youngest, 56.

Rehnquist -- believe his cancer is aggressive and he's going to have some rough days ahead. Pray for a miracle and he can pull through this.

As long as the others maintain their good health then it's possible they can last until 2006. Why 2006? We DO have the chance to recoup in the midterm Senate/House elections and gain seats. Then we can influence the outcome of SCOTUS selections.

From the chimp's inauguration until midterms, it will be a precarious time for SCOTUS selections...

Clinton anyone? It wasn't Clinton who turned around the bush/reagan years. It was trickle down economics finally kicking in. :eyes:

I knew if Kerry won he would have a terrible time trying to reverse Shrub's disasters, and Kerry would get the blame from the so-called press if he could not pull off all the miracles that would take. Now, I am telling everyone who voted for Shrub - "you are on your own now, don't blame me - I voted for Kerry."

saving by 2008.

Gyre

We need to rethink our Democratic leadership.

We need to REALLY run campaigns constant with our values. Read Arianna's latest column, she has some good points on this.

http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=742

And above all, we need to GET BUSY and grow the grassroots.

Kick back for a bit... and then go back to work.

Anyone heard anyting about the traitors getting closer to jail?

Yes, the only saving grace is that these next four years are going to bring a shitload down on them.

I have been saying the same thing today. Yes, I'm pissed. BUT, what you said is the same thing my 80 year old mother has been predicting. Months ago she was saying the best thing that could happen is this. And I was angry that she would say that, I hate Bush and his gang of arrogant thieves so much. But it feels right.

AND, we DID do it right. It was the electronic voting machines that skimmed the votes. Can I prove it- no. Time will tell. It's just one thought.

So now, Bush sits in a den of rattle snakes. And we get to watch.

They can't just appoint any Supreme Court justice they want. They have to work with the Dems. So it's not a disaster.

And then there's the rest of the planet. They are on our side. :)

I agree, Kerry would have had his hands full of situations and dilemma's that had no solutions.

This Iraq mess is getting totally out of control.

Iraqi Prime Minister now at odds with the Iraqi President with the Iraqi President saying 'No' to attacking Falluja and America with its tail between its legs ready to attack but can't because they said publically its 'Baghdad's Sovereignty' Call.

Weak Dollar... High Oil Prices.... High Gas Prices... Natural Gas Prices high... inflation coming.....

Elliot Spitzer exposing more and more Wall Street and Huge firms with fraud...

I can go on and on, but you, and everyone else knows the disaster that is waiting for this country to happen, and its going to happen under 'Their Watch'.

2008 is going to be a big win for the Democratic Party, it will be like fishing in a fish hatchery for by then, everything will be wrong and the people will have had enough.

but I believe you are right. Bush has to "Nixon" himself before people will start to listen.

i'm sorry that's all it is, but it's true that we fought the good fight.

The damage Bush and his thugs will do in the next four years is staggering. And most of the fools who voted for this piece of shit won't have a clue what's happenning until it's far, far too late. The fact is, we're witnessing the end of the middle class as we've known it. The legal and social ideals of the Republican oligarchy hover approximately around the year 1910. Labor protections? History. 40-hour week? History. Health care? Yeah, right. Freedom to organize? Forget about it.

All those labor battles you read about in history books? Prepare to live them. Because they're coming, and fast.


MDN

Well, maybe not so weird, but this made me think of it ...

A co-worker of mine is a self-described life-long Dem. She voted for Gore, was against the marriage amendment, spoke on friendly terms with me about every issue in this election.

But, today, she told me she voted for Shrub. At first I thought she was making some kind of bad joke, but I soon realized she was serious. From the things she'd said, I assumed she was voting for Kerry. She had nothing but nice things to say about him and seemed to hate Shrub, in large part because of the war. So, of course I asked what had gotten into her head.

She said that Shrub had made such a mess that any Dem that was elected would have spent the next four years only trying to clean it up and would have ultimately failed. In turn, that would have left open '06 to a huge Repub increase in Congress and a likely Repub Pres with an even bigger Repub Congress in '08. And that would truly have been a disaster. Dems would be stigmatized by the inhereted mess for another generation ... sort of like Hoover and the Repubs. Shrub broke it. Let the Repubs take the blame for it ... that sort of thing.

Now, I, personally, don't fully but that, but she had a point of sorts. Hoover did inherit a mess not of his own making, although it was his party that made it. And he got the blame for it, so much so I'm sure some will wonder just what the frig I'm talking about. The difference is that his party principles kept him from dealing with the crisis well, and I think Kerry's principles would have ultimately left this country better off, even if the basic problems weren't fixed. (I truly fear the make-up of the SC in the next four years.)

So, anyway, in some ways there could be a bright side. (I'm grasping for anything at this point.) The problem is that things are going to get a lot worse before they have a chance of getting better.

But your friend can "justify" her vote for the chimp anyway she see fit, I guess. I would rather have had Kerry in there to clean up the chimp mess and Kerry seemed ready and willing to take it on! Hope she is happy! I am not and I would never have voted for the chimp using her reasoning or any other for that matter.

Or like I meant to say except for the typo is that I don't buy all of it. But it was different, at least not the fundie, warmongering crap I'm accustomed to hearing from people around here.

And, I feel the need to make this clear, she's not a friend. All my friends voted for Kerry, as did I. This has become a line of separation between my friends and non-friends actually.

In any case, I would never have used her logic either. Like I said, I'm grasping right now. But on another note, something positive must come of this eventually, whether that be lessons we learn about who to support, how to organize, how create real change, or whatever. We must not give up, and if we don't, that will be the bright, or at least slightly less dim side.

for the next 30 years. Don't fool yourself. This was the beginning of the end, barring an economic collapse or something that helps people wake up. Let's pretend Nader is elected some day. The courts will be stacked with right wing judges that will over rule every law he tries to institute.

Study How when FDR packed the courts during his 4 terms it is what allowed all the progress to be made since...and then reverse that thought.

when it falls apart, Bush's changes will wash out to sea with him

Once the Federal judiciary is established it all becomes moot.

can't wait...

Bush doesn't even have a mandate in his own party. You think they'll all agree on someone? Keep dreaming. Now is time to watch them destroy each other.

If the party had gone down to defeat the educated/wealthier republicans would have abandoned the wingnuts. But the strategy worked. They gained even more power. The biggest split in the party will be between those wanting more tax cuts (without spending cuts) and those saying we must cut spending if we want to continue cutting taxes.

The "morals" strategy worked. They'll give up christian prayer in school, gay rights, blah blah blah now to hang onto a way they know they can keep up economic power.

Not to mention the rest of us when Greenspan's housing bubble implodes.

They may destroy themselves, but they will bring us all down with them.

It is not a relief. It sucks.

But I see your point. Let them choke on it.

When we talk about Republicans nowadays, we're talking mainly about two brands of ideologues:

1) Fundamentalists

2) Fascist/Imperialists

Reality means very little to them. They'll never reach a point where they look around and blame their problems on themselves. That type of mind will always find a scapegoat. ALWAYS.

It doesn't have to make sense. Whether they're blaming witches or Jews or Communists or liberals or just Bill Clinton's cock- nothing will EVER be their fault.

If things are bad, they'll say everything is great. If things are very bad, they'll say it's Clinton's fault. If things are oppressively bad, they'll start gassing gays. Or liberals. Or blacks.

Roe v. Wade ... probably mandate prayer in schools and the 10 Commandments in front of every public building and a picture of Jesus Christ on the wall of every public school classroom?

A Godsend, when we're going to have to wear metaphorical burqas in this theocracy for the next 4 years?

A Godsend, when every one of our rights will probably be taken away?

I'm starting to wonder whether this fraud will even make it to his second term. There is literally nothing propping this pile of shit up.

Arianna just destroyed thing the "moral values" sale on Aaron Brown.

There's nothing there - look - already ashcroft is resigning and Arlen Spector is warning Bush about Supreme court judges.

They already said Bush is a lame duck because he already broke the bank. There is nothing he can do because there is nothing to spend.

... there's WAR!

But I hope the whack job doesn't start cutting my disability pay in order to "balance" his freaking warmonger, borrowing form china BUDGET!

We at the bottom have already felt the cold hard hand of this regime.

Other than that, your scenario is perfect! He will dissolve in his own spittal soon.

It would be better to avoid them.

no need for riots. all they got in this election is more rope - let them take care of themselves.

I said there will be if Georgie Porgie gets his way putting America the rest of the way into the shitter.

Because Kerry will have inherited a huge fucked up mess. And he would have had a Pug Senate and House...they would have been pissed off and sought revenge, set up bogus investigations (a la Whitewater), probably go as far as set him up with an intern...block vetoes, etc.

The presidency that would have been left to him was a booby prize.

I forgive you Sen. Kerry.

Now let the Pug Congress deal with their wayward son, son of a bitch.

melting glaciers. Sorry, I know you're getting hammered in this thread but someone has to speak for the unrecoverable losses we face.

And Dubya will have to work hard at hard work for four more years.

And I'm just waiting for the first peep out of a Bush** supporter who starts to realize Dubya is not Jesus.

That's when I say, "DON'T BLAME ME, I VOTED FOR KERRY."

:kick:

a dynasty lasts three hundred years.

The US turned 200 in 1976,
and it is 228 years into the hole, right about now.
It is NOT going to make it to 2076.

The metal of destruction has appeared.
(In Rome it was lead, which was used in the plumbing.
In the US there are two metals of destruction;
-- aluminum which causes wicked nerve damage,
and uranium which is simply toxic.)

The gutter poets are out.
(In France they were the local bards.
In the US, they are the rappers.)

The migration out wards is accelerating.
(The jobs are being outsourced
and the deficit has grown to unmanageable levels.)

Barbarism and brutality are commonplace.
The rich have declared war on the poor.
They are showing plump Sopranos on HBO
and the Red Sox has won a World Series.
Next stop,
the utter collapse of the Union
and the federal government of the US will leave
hopefully with a whimper and not with a bang.

In fact, we're going to be in the limelight of the increased destructive force of their side these next four years. They're going to do everything in their power to take away our freedom, our schools, the Social Security, and everything else we have done to improve society.

I believe/ not sure...but didn't the stock market crash the day FDR was sworn in? (or was that the day the banks collapsed? I think it was was one of the two--what a coincidence? NOT! No doubt Uncle Prescott and his friends had a hand in that way back when)

If Kerry had made it in now...I am SURE that he would have inherited the mother of all messes--God only knows what bush and his cohorts have REALLY done to the treasury, but they would have claimed they didn't have enough time to clean up what Clinton did bla bla bla
and when the whole house of cards came down they would have blamed the Democrats.

If they have all three branches in their control for four straight years, the blame game isn't going to work--the buck will stop with the bushies.