Should we tell the black vote "they can kiss my ass"?

sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:31 PM
Original message

Should we tell the black vote "they can kiss my ass"?

That was just suggested to me another thread where I pointed out that many blacks are both religious and conservative on social issues.

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rockydem

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message

1. Kerry got like 89 percent

What's the worry?

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. Will that number go up or down if we tell them "Kiss my ass"?

And it was a pretty simple question. Do you think we should tell black voters to kiss our asses?

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Straight Shooter

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message

3. See this first: "Concede Nothing to bush, Black Consensus Remains Intact"

http://www.blackcommentator.com/112/112_cover_election.html

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to let people see the truth from the black perspective and not the media hype.

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Eugene

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message

4. But the black vote turned out 89% for Kerry.

Yes some blacks are socially conservative.
My family includes a devout black Catholics.
They are mostly loyal Democrats,
along with a Nader supporter.
It just isn't that simple.

:dem:

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. So would you tell them "kiss my ass"?

It is a simple question. The issue may be complicated, but the question is not.

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. Yes, of course

ANYONE of ANY color (I believe I said flaming orange) can "kiss my ass" if they are a "CONSERVATIVE" Christian in the fashion of John Ashcroft, or George Bush, or Ton Delay and you can add a person such as Clarence Thomas to that group if you would like.

The phony "CONservative Christians" already have a party and it's called the GOP maybe you should check it out?

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #8

11. Why did you just add words to it?

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 10:50 PM by sangh0

I asked if you would say "kiss my ass" to conservative Christian blacks, not "CONSERVATIVE" Christian in the fashion of John Ashcroft, or George Bush, or Ton Delay

The majority of blacks oppose gay marriage, oppose abortion, support school vouchers and prayer in schools. They also vote Democratic by the largest margin of any group in the US.

We should we tell THEM to kiss our ass?

The phony "CONservative Christians" already have a party and it's called the GOP maybe you should check it out?

If they are republican, as you claim, then why did 89% of them vote Kerry?

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #11

20. 89% of "THEM"

Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror brother because I think YOU are the one with the race problem...

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #20

23. When I look at my family photo

I see plenty of black faces.

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kiahzero

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #20

24. Pronouns are racist?

Wow... Kiahzero thinks kiahzero should stop using pronouns, then. Kiahzero wouldn't want to be a racist.

:eyes:

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #24

27. And he thinks I have a race problem

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Tomee450

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #27

33. I am African American and

I find your question offensive. What is the purpose of posing such a question?

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #33

36. Because that is what someone suggested we tell black voters

and yes, I found it offensive too. Nearly half my family is black, and I consider them just as much my family as the white half.

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #36

46. Well maybe you shouldn't have labeled all bush pseudo "Christians"

As Latinos and blacks I found THAT highly offensive.

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #46

50. Here;s what you said

Reaching out to the religious right Is completely futile--you can't reason with the insane.

Black voters are part of the religious right. Many are religious AND conservative.

And you called them "insane".

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #33

42. To continue a bait flame from another thread

This guy/woman whatever...has been doing this crap for two days now.

Last night they were floating around accusing people of being conspiracy theorists, tonight it's something different.

The thread it commented on was a thread about bush based so called "Christians" and they started blathering on about Democrats hating blacks and Latinos because they don't want to bring "conservative Christians" into their fold.

Whatever...lots of strange things going on since Tuesday and lots of unveilings apparently.

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Eugene

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5

13. Absolutely not! Your question is based on sterotype.

This black voter finds it insulting.
Black views on social issues are
as diverse as white views.

Besides, why attack your base
when it supports your side?

:dem:

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #13

18. Exactly!!

It's based on a stereotype and it's VERY offensive. And yes, those black conservatives are a part of our base, so why attack them?

But this EXACTLY what a DUer is suggesting.

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Jade Fox

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #5

30. It may be a simple question....

but what is your point?

I don't have a problem with religious people who are social conservatives
as long as they don't shove their agenda down everyone else's throats,
which the Black community, by-in-large, does not.

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #30

40. My point is

that saying "black christian conservative" raises the image of a bush* voter or someone who is trying to force their agenda down our throats even though it is not true.

WE, as a whole, have gotten so used to the right-wing spew, that we have come to stereotype "christian conservative" and assigned them a set of characteristics without taking a second to consider what and who those people are.

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cubsfan forever

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message

6. Not all, just the ultra-conservative, holier than thou sector

which is just as toxic as the Evangelicals. We can't convince them and they don't want to listen to us.Besides, this is like asking "Do we tell the white voters to kiss our ass?" We reach out to those who might become allies, not to those who think they have all the answers.

Professor 2

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. Well, are black conservatives, who voted for Kerry 89%

allies or potential allies? If they are, should we tell them to "kiss our ass"?

I'm surprised that the people who have responded don't seem to see any problem with telling a population that gave us strong support to go kiss our ass.

Am I missing something here? Please explain

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cubsfan forever

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #7

10. Yes, you are missing something

the issue is allies, not race. If your question was "Do we reach out to black Republicans and conservative black voters?" then you might have had a better chance at a specific answer. As it is, your question is so vague, and frankly inflammatory, that discussion is destined for failure.

Professor 2

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #10

15. Yes!!! It's "vague and inflammatory"

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 10:53 PM by sangh0

so would say something like that?

There are DUers saying this and it IS vague and inflammatory. That's my point!!

So why is the question so hard to answer? Would you make such a vague and inflammatory statement?

Maybe you wouldn't, but there's at least one DUer who would

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2613226#2613468

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cubsfan forever

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15

25. I would not make such a statement n/t

Professor 2

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #7

12. *Black* conservatives didn't vote for Kerry

Yeah, you're missing something.

Do you actually KNOW any African Americans or do you just learn about them on TV?

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #12

22. Yes they did

A large majority of blacks oppose gay marriage, oppose abortion, support prayer in schools, school vouchers, and charter schools. They vote Dem.

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enki23

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message

9. the religious nutcases among them can kiss *my* ass

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 10:48 PM by enki23

that's for goddamned sure. same for religious nutcase hispanics, and self-hating religious nutcase gays and lesbians. religious nutcase jews can go fuck themselves. religious nutcase muslims can go drown themselves in their bathtubs.

religious nutcases of all shapes, colors, gender identities, nationalities, and shoe sizes, the whole fucking rainbow of freaks, can kiss my ass.

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vetwife

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #9

16. Wingnuts don't have a color..just an agenda !

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #16

26. They vote Dem. 89% voted Dem

The black community is conservative on social issues. They oppose abortion and gay marriage and they support school prayer, school voucher and charter schools. They also vote Dem.

What makes you think these are Freepers and/or Wingnuts?

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vetwife

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #26

37. I did not say that..I said wingnuts have no color just an agenda

I basically am a conservative liberal ! What that means is that I am liberal on some issues and conservative on others. Why call a person out on color. I am not a wingnut, but conservative in some areas. liberal in others. This is not about color. This is about telling people of color to Kiss one's A and America is supposed to be about people having a right to choose how they vote. Telling them to kiss off sure won't win friends and influence people. Maybe I am a wingnut to some further left than me. I vote dem. Its not about color. Thats all I said !

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #37

44. Exactly!!!

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:15 PM by sangh0

Why call a person out on color.

There's absolutely no reason to do that, yet we have DUers who don't seem to have any problem with that. If you read through this thread, you'll see at least one poster who thinks it's OK.

And if you read through the thread, you'll see people responding and talking about freepers and wingnuts, even though the question was about black christian conservatives who are known to vote Dem by an overwhelming margin.

Why do people start talking about bush* voters, and freepers, and wingnuts when I ask a question about black christian conservatives?

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jpgray

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message

14. Religious blacks react the way blue collar southerners should

They disagree with us on gay marriage, but they agree so much with our other policies that they are willing to compromise in our favor rather than the GOP's. That's what we need to do--find a way to have the same effect elsewhere, not cave in to bigotry.

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #14

28. Exactly!!

So why would we tell them to "kiss our ass" as several people here have agreed with?

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OneMoreDemocrat

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:52 PM
Response to Original message

17. We should not turn our backs on anyone who shares.........

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:12 PM by OneMoreDemocrat

our beliefs and vision.

If some blacks (or anyone else for that matter) are rigidly religious or conservative on social issues then more than likely they've turned their backs on us and there probably isn't very much we can do about it. If someone is solidly anti-choice, then they will never vote for a pro-choice candidate no matter how solid they are on every other issue.

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Sparkly

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message

19. I don't think there's one "Black vote"

and I sure wouldn't tell all Black people to kiss my ass, no.

But I can understand wanting to tell all so-called-Christian conservative Bush voters to kiss it, actually -- no matter what color.

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #19

31. No, there's two

and we got the one that represents 89% of them

all so-called-Christian conservative Bush voters

That must be a different thread. This remark was made in reference to ALL blacks who are religious and conservative, even if they vote Dem.

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Sparkly

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #31

35. Oh.

Then absolutely not. I jumped to a conclusion in thinking we were talking about Bush voters. There are many religious people, and truly conservative people (distinguished from neo-cons and borrow-and-spenders), who vote for Democrats, and there's no question they are needed.

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #35

38. Right, you hit right on my point

I jumped to a conclusion in thinking we were talking about Bush voters

With 89% of black voters voting Dem, why do people assume "black christian conservative" means "bush* voter"?

Isn't that a little bit of prejudice? We hear "christian" and "conservative" and we jump to "bush* voter" without even thinking "Wait a minute! 90% of them vote Dem"

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Sparkly

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #38

43. Yup.

"That Christian conservative can kiss my ass" or any related combination of those words, especially among Democrats, makes me think "Bush voter!" Race doesn't matter in that.

But do you mean that there's a tendency to be MORE willing to say "kiss my ass" if the Christian conservative is Black, because we take for granted they ought to be voting Dem?

Just trying to understand...

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #43

51. No. My point is that

when we use unclear language, such as "the religious right", and follow that with offensive language, there are supporters of ours who will think that we are talking about THEM

IMO, we have to stop saying things like "the religious are insane", or "conservative Christians are mentally defective" when what we are talking about are RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS. We are talking about a small portion of the population, but the way we speak tends to target the LARGE majority. That has helped the repuke smear us as unprincipled and hostile to Christianity

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Nimble_Idea

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Fri Nov-05-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message

21. you sure you just don't want to reapeat it?

you've been talking change of the Democratic party alot.
I notice that.

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Robeson

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #21

29. Very Nimble of you

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #21

32. I'm "talking change of the Democratic party alot."?

Maybe that's because I think the Democratic party needs to change.

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #21

49. Yeah, funny thing isn't it

Very unhappy with the Dem party apparently

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walldude

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message

34. Uh... NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Christ, is there anyone left that hasn't been blamed for this mess???? Look we got screwed. There are too many circumstantial problems with this election. A person would have to be a fool not to think something was fishy...

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message

39. Everyone needs to read The Twilight of Equality.

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:14 PM by AP

It's a blue print for how to deal with this issue. And I'll tell you right now, the answer isn't to argue about whether it's anti-gay to be critical of the way the gay marriage argument has been articulated.

Will some of the smart DUers here please read this book.

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vetwife

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #39

41. I think we can stop this throwing darts at the South, the blacks and

the youth and get to real issues. This is non productive. It is flamebait pure and simple !

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #41

53. I agree

Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:28 PM by sangh0

It's getting beyond bizarre. If you had told me that someday someone on DU would say we should tell black christian conservatives to "kiss my ass" and have no reaction from it, I would have called you crazy

And here we are. Not only attacking blacks, but gays, women, new voters, Christians, anyone. Just blind rage and NO CONCERN at all for who might be hurt by these words.

And look at THIS thread!! I asked about "black christian conservatives" and posters are responding with stuff about bush* voters, freepers, wingnuts, and the people who are trying to shove their religion down our throats!

Does that sound like the black community to you?

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JohnKleeb

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message

45. what the fuck

no we shouldnt, the black vote is one of the most loyal to the party, and hell if Senator Obama is good in the senate, I think we should run him for president.

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tjdee

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message

47. What thread?

My mom is actually conservative on social issues AND religious.

She voted for Kerry because largely, she doesn't expect her government to dictate culture nor social issues.

Of course she shouldn't be told to kiss anyone's ass. That should only be told to gays, union voters, and pro-choicers. :)

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sangh0

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #47

55. Read *THIS* thread

There's at least one poster who has no problem with it.

And several respondents seem to think that when I mentioned "black conservative Christians" I was talking about:

1) bush* voters
2) freepers
3) fundamentalists who are trying to force their religion down our throats

Do those three sound like black voters?

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UpsideDownFlag

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message

48. fuh. lame. bait. nt

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Carni

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #48

52. Bingo!

You get the prize!

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UpsideDownFlag

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #52

54. thanks. its interesting to watch a pattern of eager fightin words develop

from certain people.

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Moderator

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message

56. I'm locking this thread

reason : flame-bait / continuation of argument from
another thread .

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Moderator

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Fri Nov-05-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message

57. Locking.

Inflammatory.

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