Ok, so what are OUR values? I need to know.

when hearing about the values debate, I think I have yet to hear the obviouse question asked... What about our values?

We all know have them. it's what made us outraged when the election got stolen. It's why the deaths of both Iraqis and American troops tear into our souls so much even though most of us aren't ever going to have to worry about killed in Iraq. It's why we have men here who believe in a woman's right to choose. And Straight people who support Gay marriage. And it's why the hyppocrasy of the RIGHT can make us throw our TV's or computers out a window. It's why we can't stand to hear one more of Shrub's arrogent and self serving LIES.

If we didn't have values leading us, shaping our decisions, all of this wouldn't be bothering us so much! It's more then just self interest. And it's more then merely knowing what's going on. The cons know as much as we. But apparently their values may very well be different so I guess they don't care.

So HOW can we fit our positions into a moral value based framework? What values shape your life?

I don't pretend to have some special answer to this question. I honestly have as much trouble articulating my values as I think the rest of do. Plus I think sometimes maybe being a Gay Pagan far left whatever the hell I am, maybe my ideas of values ARE radically different from the mainstream (whomever that is this week). But I will will try and I would appreciate if you guys at least THOUGHT about this and maybe told me how your values shape your positions...

For instance, (and this certainly isn't exhaustive of what I beleive) I see the country in the metaphor of a house. Not so suprising since we often view our nation as a family and indeed, I see it that way too. BUT I guess I differ in that I don't see a father in charge and the rest of us following. I see room mates, all sharing the work and all sharing the profits. The house gets dirty, the you don't bitch about who made the mess. You get together to clean it up. When one of you has trouble paying the rent, you spot him until he can come through on his own. I admit some of my room mates couldn't really pay half of everything but they paid what they could and I still profited in other ways. You don't steal from each other. And you treat each other with respect.

Right there I see compassion, honesty and treating people like adults. Right there I can see the values that make me believe in welfare (helping people to get back on thier feet), the environment (keeping your hosue clean), regulating big business (don't steal from each other), and progressive tax systym (we each can pay what we can and still all profit)

This hardly covers all of my value system. Nort is it the only metaphor I could use. But I'm kinda looking for other input here. I want to know what you guys think?

It's more than identifying your values. It's about fitting them into a framework and a narrative that will appeal to people across the political spectrum.

but then we should also work on defining that narrative.

How do we do that?

Once there's enough people who are clued into what needs to be done, we can organize and brainstorm on how to phrase our arguments to fit into the framework Lakoff points towards and how to get that language into the mainstream. The Meeting Room forum on DU might be a good place to start the organizational efforts.

equal rights

In George Lakoff's book Don't Think of An Elephant, he discusses how we progressives often have a hard time articulating our values. To make it easy for us, he lists the common values that many progressives share.

Knowing your values is the first step in reframing the debate. Too often we talk policy, when we should be talking values. As painful as it may be to realize right now (given the recent election), we do share values with that other segment of society.

According to Lakoff, these values include:

Caring and responsibility, carried out with strength.

Protection, fulfillment in life, fairness.

Freedom, opportunity, prosperity.

Community, service, cooperation.

Trust, honest, open communication.

Not imposing my values on others. I live mine. I'm consistant. Ask Pat Robertson to explain his values....where he preaches in the name of God but does precisely the opposite. How those diamond mines doing Mr. Moral Values?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670033650/qid=1099716570/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-0518433-0646304

Amazon link above. This is a very nice summary of our values.

My first thoughts - tolerance, honesty, empathy, understanding, optimism, kindness, intelligence, compassion, hope are what I see are some of our core values.

I value the vision of an America where we aren't dependent on foriegn oil, and eventually are dependent on no oil - and we won't miss it.

I value a quality education based on teaching students how to learn, and then helping them learn in whatever way is best for them.

I value teachers more than I value pro athletes.

I value the right of free speech.

I value the right of a homosexual to visit someone they love who may be sick or dying, or to inherit their estate should they die.

I value the union between two people, regardless of their genders, so long as they maintain that union through open and honest discussion.

I value giving children the chance to be whatever they want when the grow up.

I value giving everyone regardless of age fast and efficient quality health care.

I value promoting true Christianity - based on giving of one's self and forgiveness of others over fear of God's wrath and hatred of ther religions.

I value my Christianity, and will continue to bring people to it should they show interest, but I will not force my morals on others.

I value allowing everyone to worship whomever they choose to, so long as their religion does not allow people to be victimized.

I value education towards abstinence, while still properly educating people on all forms of birth control available to them.

I value an adult and a child to be able to make mistakes and learn from them, because I think they should be able to make their own choices whether they be wrong or right, so long as no one is victimized.

I value a woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

I value keeping peace with others through diplomacy and open-mindedness.

I value going to war if all other avenues have been exhausted and there is no other choice.

I value giving the children of tommorow a green and blue planet to live on, not a brown and grey one.

I value helping people get jobs through creating them.

I value purchasing American made goods, in which Americans get money for their sale.

I value sacrifice for the greater good of all people, because all people deserve the right to freedom, justice, and a pursuit of happiness.

I am really impressed!

The Rights of Man (meaning all of humanity)

The ideals of the great philosphers of the enlightenment.

The notion that all humans are created equal, have dignity and intelligence and are capable of reason.

We need to go back to Locke, Hume, Rousseau, and Voltaire

This is the error.

Personal values have been shoved into the public by Fundamentalists. Societal are the ones that keep us together as a nation.

Personal values and beliefs are based on religion; what a person feels is right. These in the past have not been used as cheap currency to divide a nation. Uncle Karl saw that this could be done.

It is the societal values that have always made us great up till now. Justice, fair play, caring for the less fortunate in our society. These are braodly based, or have been, in our country.

Perversion of taking personal values and using them as weapons against our fellow citizens is what is going on now. They are being merged with the societal. A very bad mix.

And I think he just let one rip...

summed it up quite nicely in her social studies class:

1) Be kind to one another

2) Don't mess with the heater in the fish tank.

I think #1 covers most situations.

~Furity

I recommend reading up on some of the great thinkers of your nation, the ones who defined liberty and democracy: Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, through to Dr. King, JFK, etc.

Next time some nutjob tries some fundamentalist-speak on you, throw a quote from Jefferson back in their face. Bring up Rosa Parks for good measure.

And always remember Bobby!
http://www.rfkmemorial.org/RFK/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/rfk/index.html
http://www.jfk-online.com/rfk.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1968/rfk.htm
http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0011/article/001153.html