wonder what Elizabeth Edwards was trying to communicate . . .

by quoting Thomas Jefferson in her post . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2604461&mesg_id=2604461

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

what I'm wondering about is the "little patience" she seems to be asking for . . .

on the one hand, that could mean that we should accept the results of the election and move on (much as Bill Clinton is suggesting) and that, with patience, we shall prevail over time (i.e. years) . . .

on the other hand, might she be hinting that things are going on NOW that we don't know about concerning the theft of the election? . . . I mean, a campaign operation the size of Kerry/Edwards doesn't just evaporate overnight (which is seemingly what happened) . . . is it possible that some of those 17,000 lawyers are actually doing some stealth investigation into election fraud, the "little patience" really means LITTLE patience, and we'll be seeing somthing sooner rather than later (i.e days or weeks)? . . . I sure hope so . . .

It definitely doesn't seem right for this election to be up in smoke like this. :shrug:

why now?


as far as the campaign evaporating. even the dean primary campaign took awhile to dismantle and wind down.

I had been wondering about posting something of this sort as well.

Senator Kerry has been too involved in exposing government corruption and sleaze for too long to think that he just up and decided, "oh, okay, we lost, thanks for playing" and then moved on.

I've read some of the BCCI report and it strikes me that Senator Kerry has a history of methodically and patiently laying the ground work before striking.

It was too weird that all the Democratic leaders just disappeared off the radar at the same time. And the tens of thousands of lawyers suddenly evaporated into the background.

Of course, I believe in some things many others label "conspiracy theories," so, eh, what do I know?

far right that we will win in a landslide in 2008. Absolute power DOES corrupt absolutely. I wouldn't even doubt if we win some seats back in 2006 in the house. I think the repukes will actually want us to win control back so they can blame the dems for not getting anything done.

will now be held accountable for their madcap policies, pre-emptive war, massive, critical debts, their global arrogance, their religious/Christian jihad on all citizens, the fleecing of social service policies, and they will be soon be seen as the infidels that they are. The other shoe will fall...The arrogance is their weakest link.


This too shall pass, but at a price to our most vulnerable citizens. Outrage will finally occur.

Christian thinking...they have written the book on what they want Christian's to believe...but, it couldn't be more anti-Christ...

It is a close call but I think their manipulation of the gentle Christian is so "Damien" and the most outrageous act they commit...

Freetobe me et al:

You are so right. In fact I think there is a need for a new definition to be added to our New Era Modern Dictionaries:

Christians (new age far-right)
The New Age worship of counterfeit "Christ" counterfeit "God" (the extreme far-right who falsely profess to be "born again" or "evangelical")... This false Christ or false God cult produces sinful, hypocritical "Christians" who will commit even the ultimate sin to survive, merging with the global government of Antichrist while thinking that this is standard Tribulation saint behavior. (example: Falwell flock, et al)

**************************

I am not implying that all "born again" fit into this cult at all. Many faiths have "born again", but not all are members of the "cult" that we struggle with today. The "cult" defines who is human and who should have the privilege to live or die; they define their good and bad and nothing in between (finding some scripture reference they can twist to try to excuse and justify their criminally twisted minds). Bush & Rove had no problem fitting in with the cult crowd to garnish votes. Kerry-Edwards do not fit the mold (thank goodness for those such as Kerry-Edwards who are "true" caring and inspiring leaders who will not cave in to the those of the cult of criminal sins to garnish a vote).

What I found ironical about Bush's second term plan announcement is that he did not mention any of the "moral issue" items thrown out to the Falwell-type flocks (Bush-Rove puppets)to garnish their votes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6405260/

Bush's arrogance against the media and Democrat leaders immediately after stealing a second term further proves he will never achieve unity and doomed to further failure (problem is we all have to suffer for their inexcusable arrogance and misjudgements). He basically immediately thumbed his nose at all but those of his mentality... with "it's my way or the highway". He'll only allow Democrats to work with him that agree to everything he wants? NOT!!!! I hope we have 4 years of filibusters! One cannot unite with this admininstration unless they wish to see us a third world country in the next 4 years.

This below article includes a warning about Bush's agenda... maybe Bush is waiting until he can put some new US Supreme Court Justices in before he pursues the moral issues that Bush & Rove so proudly threw out as carrots for the misguided/blind to acquire the votes of the far right cult and some "moderate Christians" (I cannot really call the "far-right cult" Christians, as they don't fit the mold of my definition of true Christian)with promises of "moral issue redress" may not be in the implementation plan at all (just ask Nevada how much faith to have in moral or environmental issue redress based upon Bush's promises in 2000). Only time will tell.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6405485/

The following article sums up many of my feelings (that we should not mourn, but organize):

. . . He Didn't Get

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, November 5, 2004; Page A25

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26834-2004Nov4.html

bless your heart.

it's true, and more people need to say it out loud.

the election wasn't stolen we're just a nation of morons.

and campaign dismantling occurred just has me wondering . . . particularly after both Kerry and Edwards made such a point of insisting that "every vote will be counted" during the final days of the campaign . . . guess all we can do is wait and see . . .

meanwhile, can we get a Florida or Ohio ballot onto milk cartons along with all those missing kids? . . . :)

lost/missing

ballots in pres. election

found:

more ballots than voters.

and are used to expose Election Fraud in emerging democracies.

Why is America the only country where they are wrong?

Why have exit polls in America only been wrong since the advent of paperless e-voting in 2000?

Why are exit polls only wrong in counties where there are paperless e-voting machines and tabulators?

Why are the exit polls showing Kerry winning wrong, but exit polls showing voters went for Junior for Morals Issues correct?

Why did the entire Right Wing Punditry and Media IMMEDIATELY begin discrediting Exit Polls and trumpeting "Moral Issues" as GOP strong points?

Occam's Razor, indeed.

It's a beautiful and true quote from a beautiful lady. But regardless of what you think it means, this is what we HAVE to do:

1) We have to support Bev Harris because someone has to check the integrity of the voting system. Shame on the DNC for abdicating that responsibility. We don't trust this government because it is controlled by Republicans and yet we're going to abdicate an entire election based on a system they control? How stupid is that?

2) We can't just walk away from each other now and reassemble in two or four years. We must begin now to reach out to each other and form alliances. And if the DNC doesn't want to be a part of it, so be it. I like that the NAACP is taking a leadership role and is reaching out to other organizations. We need to see more of that.

I look forward to hearing more from Mrs. Edwards when the next election approaches, but she is the only one that has a good reason to take a sabbatical from this fight.

I know people have said she posted here before... but given her illness, don't you think it's sort of strange that this is on her priority list? And the absolute silence from K/E and the DNC is just plain weird.

Our job is to protect the integrity of the system. That is what democracy is all about. That is what checks and balances are all about. We have to stop wondering if there is something else going on in the background because we have far more to lose if there is not.

Party? What would it take to take over the Democratic Party. I mean just form a committee and claim the the DNC was not representing our party.

After each election we just go on our merry way and leave it on faith that the party is doing what it has to do to prepare for the next election. But you know what? Each year they get more and more alienated from their base. You know who their base should be? All those migrant workers who are here LEGALLY. All those blue collar manufacturers who have lost their jobs. All those poor minorities who have benefitted from Affirmative Action programs who get their first shot at their first good job, only to be abandoned and ripped-apart by the right-wing bigotry and hate they encounter in the workforce. All those middle class white people who are far more intelligent than the right-wing white community around them, but who are in the minority and have recognized that they must go along to get along. So between each election we are subjected to a process of divide and conquer to the point that the white middle class person doesn't see what he has in common with the blue collar manufacturer nor the migrant worker.

Meanwhile, our DNC leaders are too busy cozying up to the RNC at "A" listed cocktail parties in order to bring home the bacon to their own constituents in their own states and doing it by selling the rest of us out.

entitles them to run the Democratic Party?

What about Dr. Dean? Could he be persuaded to break away from the DNC
and head up the new committee? He knows how to get up the money.

people through advertisement and appear more organized.

I don't think it will be enough just to support a new Dem leader. You need to take the veil off the Republican facade. Unfortunately, as one astute news pundit said, some people don't care that the emperor has no clothes on.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what their true authority as head of the Dems is. Do you think that some other organization with money could take it away from the DNC? If so, why don't we start working on that?

I don't know anyone rich enough to take the mantle from the Dems, and even if I did, I would be suspicious of their intentions.

The kind of person that would turn my head tomorrow, is someone with higher ideals than what the Republicans offer (money isn't everything) and someone who is willing to risk it all for America. In other words, someone coming up from the blue-collar ranks.

What happened in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 MUST NOT happen in 2008. We must organize NOW, support Bev Harris and start planning immediately so that we can restore the America we truly love! I haven't been an activist prior to this but I am currently exploring things that I can personally do to aid our effort. We can sit back and moan or we can get into action. I prefer the latter option.

We lost the last election with 532 votes. I would never, never forgive the Dems if the next one is as close and we didn't lay the groundwork for fair elections in 2008.

...improve on what worked; reject what didn't work; and never, never give up the fight.

A legal fight would be fruitless, especially since, as I hear, Ohio's secretary of state is as dogmatic of reactionary Repiglican as was Katherine Harris.

And above all quite whining!

Pissing and moaning about whether or not the election was stolen by Diebold in Ohio is not going to change a thing.

It's time to start working on winning Senate and House seats in 2006!

aren't mututally exclusive.

No one is WHINING.

Right on the nose.

Kerry has conceded, period. Bush has pulled off another coup, period. A recount of Ohio now still will not make a difference.

Nor can those of us who post on DU make a difference by, yes, whining about the voter fraud in Ohio. The CEO of Diebold said in advance he would win Ohio for Bush. The attempt to stop this should have taken place months ago before the election.

It is time to move on. Not forget, but move on.

There are positives if one looks. And one need not look very hard.

Work on the positives.

Don't believe for one second that a concession speech has any legal standing.

It does not.

I firmly believe that JK and his people are working quietly to get the true vote counts, or at least, to uncover what sorts of errors took place.

Until the electoral college meets on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December - the 13th, in this case - and casts its votes, which are then opened and read by the President of the Senate on January 6, keep this in mind:

NO ONE HAS BEEN LEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT YET.

Got that?

I'm trusting Kerry on this one.

Fair enough.

But if you're wrong, then what?

OH, yes, and by the way, the Iowa vote count, sans fraud, went for Bush.

...... we're on the same side here. No apology required. If I'm right, we'll dance in the streets. If I'm wrong, we're right here, where we are now, only with a bit more cynical attitude, a slightly diminished hope (at least temporarily), and a much deeper desire to get those mofos and not let them get away with stealing it ever again.

But, for now, I'm choosing to believe that it's not over.

I may be clinically insane, I know.

We know if it's at all possible for them to cheat, they will do it. Even if they get caught, they get away with it. So we either lay down and die, or we become thorns at their sides. The only shred of evidence that we count in the American process is the belief that our elections are held fairly. So don't get in our way as we attempt to legitimize the process.

Why bother working to win next year's election if you haven't confirmed that the election process is fair and safe? Checks and balances. Do the paperwork today, or you'll regret it tomorrow.

And I don't' live in Ohio. There was no indication of voter fraud in my state. And it voted for Bush.

Why?

My hypothesis is that on the one hand the state Democratic Party did not wage an effective campaign against the incumbent Repiglican US Senator. On the other is that Christian Reconstructionist churches urged their congregations to vote for Bush.

"To short-circuit the Republican appeals to blue-collar constituents, Democrats must confront the cultural populism of the wedge issues with genuine economic populism. They must dust off their own majoritarian militancy instead of suppressing it; sharpen the distinctions between the parties instead of minimizing them; emphasize the contradictions of culture-war populism instead of ignoring them; and speak forthrightly about who gains and who loses from conservative economic policy." Thomas Frank in today's New York Times

I lived in a time when every vote counted. If that stops in America, then America ceases to exist. At least for me.

vote, to demand the same number of polling booths per citizen for 2006.

With what she's been through, I find it incredibly moving that she took time out to post here and offer encouragement. If she wanted to say, Move on, I think that's exactly what she'd have said.

Keep fighting, is what she's saying. And what I find most encouraging is that she sees this awful time of right-wing domination just as I do, as a "reign of witches," not just normal life.

If the people near the top of the power structure see it that way... well, I have some hope.

Some.

Ain't she the greatest, though?

She is going through a hard time we need her back as soon as possible. My thirteen year old daughter is wearing a pink bracelet, Elizabeth is her hero and role model.

I am convinced there is something more going on by the absolute deafening silence. Do you remember conversations in 2000 where some of the pundits said Gore should have fought quietly, kept this out of the courts and waited for January to contest the election? For the life of me I cannot remember who that was. By the time this got to the floor of the Senate they said he had exhausted all his ammunition and there was no fight left.

My patience is gone.

cannot be won in one day. It is not as if bush won and we can get rid of him in one day... it will take more than that BUT IN THE END, however long it takes, ... he will not forever have wiped off of the face of the earth our 200 years history ... nor the value that we, the majority of Americans place on it!

It is a quote from a great founding father, Thomas Jefferson.

I think she simply was trying to help us accept the defeat but at the same time offer hope for the future.

An awesome post by an awesome woman who reached out in a most difficult time in her own life. She did not have to do that but obviously felt some loyalty to DU and it's participants.

Get strong and healthy Elizabeth. We need you back--you can bring along TJ any time you like also.

I think we're all dying for a hidden message, a reason not to give up hope, but what else could she say, really?

Our situation is pretty hopeless.

-Laelth

to her post, I mentioned that I was reading between the lines of her quote and hoping it meant they were continuing the fight. It was an interesting choice of words, calling for "a little patience." Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but these guys knew how much was at stake. If they did give up it was most likely because they were shown an anthrax letter addressed to their kids.

. . . we'll see.

Look this up on the Net or in your history books. It is fascinating. There was an incredible divide in our country, an uproar over the direction our country should go.

Jefferson finally won because a Congressman from Delaware decided that abstaining from casting a vote was the only way to get Congress out of its deadlock. The decision-making process was a bit different then.

Read all about it in the Nov 2004 Smithsonian. The more things change, the more they truly stay the same, it's just that the stakes are higher this time. Thomas Jefferson shaped America for the better, just as Kerry will do.

Thank you to Thomas Jefferson, who said, "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

great.

and I had just gotten over

"my name is/my name is/my name is"
(slim shady)

I'm hoping against hope for this, however, I know she has cancer and her magnamity at graceing us with that post during such a hard time in her life, it made me bawl. I just hope she gets better, and takes care of herself, stress is not a good additive to cancer. I've had a needle biopsy and it was so scary, but luckily for me it was benign, I'm just glad the caught hers early.