I think I've lost my religion

I have been more and more concerned as fundamental, evangelical, far-right, literal interpreters of the Bible take over my government. My pastor, who seems very liberal, sent out an email to a huge church listserv that we have simply asking for prayers of untiy when Kerry conceded. Then the ugly people of my church responded. It wasn't many, but enough to cause a full frontal assualt on my behalf.

Here is the offending email.

______________________________

Good Morning xxxxxxxxx.

It would be nice if America could be united again, but I see things getting worse before they get better.

As long as special interest groups with hyphenated names place their agendas above the best interests of America, we will never unite. We are no longer Americans, we are African-Americans, Gay-Americans, Arab-Americans, etc. We were all Americans for a few months after 9/11, but that didn't last long did it?

As long as the Democratic Party continues to lend their whole-hearted support to anti-Christian, anti-Amercian policies, we will never unite. Their support of gay marriage, partial birth abortion, higher taxes, and a policy of appeasement in time of war is what lost them the presidential election, the House of Representative, and the Senate. Character and morals count and the Democrat Party is short in both areas. The Democratic Party of today is not the party of my parents.

We are so blessed to be Americans. I just hope we can hold onto those blessings for our children.
_______________________________________

My response is the following. Many will notice info and graphics that I have taken from DU posters. Sorry for not crediting you. I honestly can't remember all the poster from whom I have taken information.
____________________________________________________

How pathetic! We will never unite unless the Democratic Party stops supporting anti-Christian (values I suppose), partial-birth abortions, gay marriage, etc...? This makes me sick and is just one more reason I am so disillusioned with organized religion, religious groups, and American society in general and the shift to "conservative" values. I want no part of this whatsoever. And if this is the overall feeling at the church, I am withdrawing my membership immediately! I do not want my children growing up in such a narrow-minded environment!

Being in the Democratic Party means having a secular, humanistic look at the world. Yes, secular! The last time I looked there is something called separation of church and state. I am deeply concerned that radical, evangelical fundamentalists are having too much influence on my government and I don't like it for a second.

There is a place for religion and it is not in government. In order for a government to fully represent the people , it must remain impartial. It can not seem to favor one religion over another and the best way to avoid this is to simply take religion out of the government completely. Unfortunately, this is not happening as fear and hate mongers in the guise of religious people are hijacking religion just as Osama bin Ladin hijacked Islam to push their bigoted agenda.

Much blood in this world has been spilled solely because of religious differences. It is happening today and will continue as long as people continue to force religious issues in government. The religious right, as it manifests itself in the likes of Jerry Falwell and Ralph Reed of the Christian Right or Pat Robertson, promote nothing but bigotry, hatred and intransigence. These are not religious men. Desmond Tutu is a religious man. The Pope is a religious man. Ed Wolf is a religious man. These are opportunistic hawks who have weaseled their way into politics, but the media still gives them air time. It's disgusting. They only bring out the more moderate Billy Graham at Christmas or for an inauguration. Yet the Republicans continue to pander to them and their followers with wedge issues which should mean nothing to a government. Every year schools have to deal with creationism vs. evolution. Really, there is a place for both theories in society; one in church, the other in public schools.

Additionally, do you mean to tell me that we have to fight gay marriage? Who cares with whom someone sleeps or marries. A government should not meddle in these affairs. If a church wants to wage war on gays, then so be it. Personally I will have no part in it. I know and work with far too many gay people who are wonderful, caring people with whom I would entrust my own children. Why should I change that? So much energy has been spent on a moot points. But Karl Rove told Bush to push this to distract attention away from the disaster that he is. It is not that the Democrats are causing the split in American society. It's Bush; plain and simple. My God, the Republican Party in either South Carolina, North Carolina or Virginia (I can't remember which one) actually sent out flyers insinuating that Kerry would ban the Bible. For Pete's Sake, that is just ignorant! Oh and we can't forget this war thing. Rove and Bush's handlers told him to harp on the war. Terror, Terror, Terror. Fear, Fear, Fear.


Don't vote for Kerry or we will be attacked. Give me a break. Bush has mishandled this war from the beginning just as he mishandled his own service record. He never completed his time in the Air National Guard, check the latest PBS Frontline and he was stripped of his wings for not completing a flight physical, yet he still was given an honorable discharge. I think his Daddy was helping him. Meanwhile, John Kerry went to Viet Nam, fought, saw that he didn't like what was going on and spoke out against the war. That is legal, you know? Is is legal for Bush to do what he did? If you are rich and have a Daddy in a position of power I guess so.


The war is in Afghanistan. There were never connections with Iraq and Al-Qaeda. There were never any WMD's and now we are seeing how poorly planned the invasion and the occupation were. 370 tons of weapons gone...1200 soldiers dead for nothing, the US is not respected at all in the world any more, and the worst part is that Bush handed Bin Ladin exactly what he wanted. Bin Ladin warned the Arab world that the US was going to invade an Arab country. Now we have. We have taken an evil tyrant, who was not well liked to begin with in the Arab world and created sympathy for him. We have also created a breeding ground for terrorists for generations to come. Now Bush says we attacked because the intentions were there for Saddam to use the WMD's. Okay, so why aren't we in North Korea, why aren't we in Iran? They actually have them. Democrats do support the troops and we do all those in uniform. We just don't like the ones issuing orders. Oh and speaking of the ones issuing orders, check out this link. http://www.newamericancentury.org/ This place is just scary. It basically is a white paper on how the US will spread American culture and democracy everywhere, wanted or not. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld all have contributed to this site. After reading there at this site, I am convinced that the war in Iraq was not about WMD's. Finally, and I will get off the military thing, but republicans clamor on and on about how Democrats can't lead a war yet the republican leaders and pundits are the ones that have NO military experience. They just like to talk the talk but not walk the walk. Look at this list.

Democrats:

* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt, Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat
V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,
Vietnam..
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven
campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze
Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star
and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.


Republicans:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)



Republicans vote and pander to an image, nothing more. Bush won because of the good ole boy image he portrayed; not the aloof intellectual that is Kerry. And believe me, it is all image! Bush couldn't be an intellectual if he tried his hardest.

Economically, he is a disaster. He has saddled generations with a huge debt, but that is normal for republicans. Look at this from the Congressional Budget Office:



Now look at the job loss. There has been no stimulation of the economy under Bush, none! Heck he is one of the worst at creating jobs!


How about the environment? Bush has one of the worst records on the environment and his former EPA director quit in disgust because of it. Water and air are much dirtier under Bush, but it stands to reason, because it would cost industry billions to retrofit factories and Bush wouldn't want his rich friends getting mad at him. Daddy Dick Cheney might have to scold him. For more info, check here: http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/

Education? He has done better here, correct? Hardly. I am a teacher so I know. He has saddled schools with unrealistic expectations (for example schools that do not test special ed children at grade level are penalized), has forced a type of voucher system on schools and vehemently opposes bilingual education and the idea that some children need to learn in their native language first to become literate thinking human beings. He is an idiot! He takes most of his advice on reading from some ex-Army guy who spent two years in the classroom. Wow! That makes him an expert! His name is Reid Lyon. Google his name. For more info see: www.susanohanian.org

I am disgusted with American society and its refusal to bring our government back to the center where it belongs. I am disgusted with the "moral values" being touted by the republicans. I find them reprehensible. The Democratic Party did not create the split. Republicans and their wedge issues have.

I will be not be party to any organization that holds these values. Period!

Stephen xxxxxx
Probably former member of church.
______________________________________

Response from my pastor:

Wow! I had no idea what my email was going to create! I know you got a copy of the mass email I sent, so I won't go into those details.

But I did want to write specifically to you in hopes of helping you/us in your feelings about me/this church. I apologize if you read something in my email that went beyond praying for our country. I agree with you that I will not combine church and state. But I hope that does not mean we cannot at least pray for everyone, including our leaders.

I like you and your family, Stephen. I think you are a great asset to this church. I also agree that organized religion can be such a pain in the butt sometimes. So many rules and regulations and... But for me, being in community with fellow Christians, right or wrong in opinions, helps my faith in God more than going alone. You and I share similar questions about biblical views, and I have appreciated being able to talk with you about them. I don't want to lose that. I don't want to see you leave the church over the views others may have. I am sorry if I said anything in my emails that you might have seen as offensive.

I would like to offer that I would be willing to speak with you on this or any issue. Some things we will agree on, others not. But know this: no matter what side we may fall on any issue, I will not love you any less as a fellow believer in Jesus Christ. My hope is to share the love of God in Jesus Christ more than "religious" ways. Please allow me the chance to do so with you.

Peace,
xxxx
_________________________________________

One conflicted DUer!

he should revisit and realize that the bible foretold how the anti-christ would fool god's people and his words 'would tickle their ears'.

The pastor seems very open to discussion and not hateful in any way

The pastor is very open-minded and one of the reasons I decided to join this church in my spiritual search, but I just can't seem to lump myself in with others who call themselves Christians in the vein of those that voted for Shrub!

Lump yourself in with the more liberal members of your congregation and the pastor.

And please, I hope you don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying you have to remain there. In the end, only you can decide what's best for you and your family. But I do think you should give it a chance and work with the pastor.

We have many conversations before, but I am still very hesitant about rearing my children in this environment. My mother and father who also attend this church are moderates when it comes to religion and do not interpret the Bible liberally but still are freaking out about my possible desertion. My mother asked me last night if I believed in God and I told her I didn't know any more. She about had a conniption fit. I don't want eternal life if I have to spend it with narrow-minded bigots. Is there a heaven for liberals? ;)

As I said, in the end you have to decide what's best for you and your family. But I would like to suggest that trying to isolate you and your family from certain things may not be the wisest choice.

The Fundamentalists try to wall off the outside world. The home-school their children, do business with each other, and try to keep outside (read - non-religious) influences out. While they have had a good deal of success, the effort is ultimately futile. You can't keep the world at bay.

And I'm not saying this to compare to Fundies. I just want to portray the futility of trying to protect your family from the world. I think that like a shepherd, you can stop the rain from falling from the sky, but you can lead your flock (family) to shelter.

But, as I said, in the end YOU have to decide what's best for you and your family. I just would hate to see you make that decision based on an idea that may be futile.

I have to do some serious soul-searching!

I can't blame you for being conflicted.

There is a fundamental (pardon the term) schism between the teachings of Christ and the policies of the Bush administration. Above all Christ taught humility; there is no room whatsoever for humility in Republican 'values'.

It seems like your pastor is relatively open-minded. Man, I don't know. I would probably try to persuade him to talk about the humility issue and get some of these RW nuts to calm down. I think bailing on them just signals defeat.

are pharasees. Church and faith is in your heart, not in a building or a street corner. Only time Jesus got really mad was at church with the moneychangers. Jesus said, You have turned the house of God into a Den of thieves. Those folks have to deal with Jesus not me. I think I would think of that every time I blasephemed his name, God's name to collect money and push votes. He took a stick to them.

The only other people he showed contempt for were the Pharisees and Sadducees--the religious leaders of the day. He likened them to white-washed tombs, all holy on the outside but death and corruption on the inside.

I was just thinking today that Bush has turned our White House into one of those white-washed tombs.

As a Christian who believes in the teachings of Christ, this has become personal for me so I understand Maestro's feelings. These people are taking my belief and bastardizing it into something that I don't recognize as Christianity. Probably because it's not.

I stood on the corner this morning during our war protest with a sign that read "Faith does not exist without free will." In Tulsa, with it's population heavy with the right wing religious, that should mean something to people and make them think.

Garrison Keillor is giving fundies a hard time on PHC tonight.

to your pastor. I assumed that that was a resonse to your pastor. His response to you was nice, but I'd ask him if he offered to talk with the person who put out the hate-filled email.

of the church. The pastor is very liberal and open-minded and I believe a democrat even we have never discussed politics in depth.

Seems your pastor has his work cut out for him confronting the crowd who deny that pride goeth before the fall.

Thank you for responding to the hateful emails. We've all got to fight back every day. We must answer every scurrilous email we receive, we've got to write polite but forceful letters to the editor, we've got to write to journalists, columnists, pundits, and politicians when they portray Democrats as anti-God, anti-religion, and anti-American. They must feel the hot-breath of our fury at being marginalized or demonized.

Your email response was impressive.

:)



It's times like these that I find I rather miss church. I may go to a Unitarian Universalist church this week.

or take a look at the list this DUer put together.

1. Unitarian Universalist,
2. United Church of Religious Science (very similar to UU),
3. United Church of Christ,
4. Quakers,
5. or Metropolitan Community Churches.

Also, there are many independent moderate churches, and more liberal sub-divisions of the Main Denominations.

My solution was the first two, who accept all paths to God, or whomever.

You can engage in 'Christian' rituals if you want or call yourself a Christian, or not.

My point here...and I do have one...is I had to totally sever myself from the traditional churches, even if the pastor was nice. I just couldn't be a part of it anymore. But...this is a very personal decision.

What's the harm in trying a UU service? That's the difference between traditional churches and modern ones - no one at my church, including the pastor - tells me what to think or with whom to associate.

And great rant - I kept it. May send it to my Freeper-type relatives.

I work with several frustrated democrats, some white, others black, others gay and all made copies to send around.

.... i'm glad you made that distinction-

i WAS a 'fundie' for several years, and i belonged to a church family filled with many 'well intentioned' and good hearted people- it was so sad to leave what had become my 'community' but i could no longer sit silent in the face of perverted and 'hatefilled' disguised as 'loving' "righteous' messages, and teachings-

But, it was either leave that 'body' of worshippers, or abandon what i believe is the honest to 'Christ' truth-

there was a post here just recently from 'common truth' or was it 'counterpunch' which was titled "I am no longer a Christian"- if you haven't read it, please do- this woman spoke my heart-

and i hope you find comfort and support in this struggle-
with love,
emmy

(a fellow follower of CHRIST)

reeeeeeeally great.

I have never had anything nominated for the front page. I'm honored and humbled.

Clearly you ARE a deeply religious person...that jerk-face is the one who lost his religion.

but I am growing frustrated with organized religion.

"I'm just so used to telling people what to think, and having them nod in agreement without thinking for themselves. Now that I've seen the light, I know exactly what to do.

I'm removing you from my mass-mailing list."

:eyes:

Similar crisis of conscience resulted in my excommunication in absentia from the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church, as right-wing a group as you'll find among the Lutherans.

If you re-read the exchange, you'll see that the hateful letter came from a member of the congregation and not the pastor. The pastor seems like a very understanding person who would NOT cit a member off for simply disagreeing. In fact, the pastor was disturbed by Maestro's considering leaving the church.

IMO, we need to avoid blindly striking out at others in our moment of pain. An eye for an eye only leaves a lot of blind people in it's wake.

...of his own letter:

"As long as the Democratic Party continues to lend their whole-hearted support to anti-Christian, anti-American policies, we will never unite. Their support of gay marriage, partial birth abortion, higher taxes, and a policy of appeasement in time of war is what lost them the presidential election, the House of Representative, and the Senate"

I had a similar blow-out with my church. I've come to the conclusion that I have to step away for awhile at least, perhaps for good. We had a priest who for all intents and purposes, two weeks before the election, gave a sermon which precluded Catholics of "true" faith from voting for John Kerry. When I called him on it he pretty much denied doing anything wrong. Then he told me what I should have heard in the sermon. You see, it was my perception that was way off...It was kind of like in the debates; America watched the chimp lose three in a row and then we all had to listen to the mediawhores tell us what really happened.

Your pastor sounds like an understanding person and I think you can work with him. He sounds like he's on your side, but he can't openly and explicitely side with one member over another over a political issue. I bet he sees his responsibility as being to tend to his flock, not moderating a political debate.

If you leave, there's no hope of your getting the pastor to call for reduction of the hateful talk these people spread. If the liberals leave, then the conservatives will be free to spread their hatred without opposition.

Speak to your pastor, and ask him if he feels that this persons denigration of various groups of americans is something that demands a response from him as a Christian. Ask him if it's in keeping with Christ's teaching to divide people up into categories of "real" americans and hyphenated one, and if he feels there might be some form of prejudice that underlies those hateful words.

I really doubt your pastor is going to get up and deliver a sermon praising Kerry or any Democrats, but I can see him denouncing hateful speech that divides people from each other and labels some of them as less worthy of others. I'll bet he'd see that as being a part of his mission.

... but there ARE times when you just have to shake the dust from your sandals-

and i appreciate your pointing out the hyphenation issue-
i've often asked people who put the 'boundry' lines on this earth-?
i can't see any 'sign' that it was Christ-

"that they may all be one"- are not ALL human beings- (regardless of thier 'religion') made in the image of God himself?

MR.Kerry's refrence to the 'good samaritan' spoke to me more of his DEPTH of 'understanding' of faith, than all the mumbo-jumbo 'religious-speak' that fills the 'christ'ian community these days?

'the LEAST of these'- might be Ossamma bin laden himself-
but that's too difficult for many people to stretch themselves to even consider-

I'm sending that to some family bush lovers. That explains my feelings and viewpoints too.

Good luck with your relationship with your church.

I can just see you having a talk with your pasture. Funny I envision you discussing politics...NOT religion. How sad is that?

Really enjoyed reading that. Lays it out so clear.

Your pastor seems like an ok person. His response to you was entirely focused on religion and his relationship with you. He didn't descend into political argument at all - shows that his heart is probably in the right place.

I am urging EVERYONE to speak out! I have posted in DU a letter that I am sending to the editor of my local paper. I don't think that writing letters to congressmen do jack shit for anything. The only way to create change is to get people to think... which means posting great letters, such as yours, outside of DU - where other people can read it.
I urge you to copy this and send it to your local paper, post it on multiple websites, any other place you can think of where bush-voters will read it.
Heck, create fliers of this letter and go to Wal-mart and put them on people's windshields! lol! Anything!
This contains so much excellent, and true information - I like it that you have some sources listed too. It is intelligent and well writen. This is one step we all must take to fight back!
GREAT JOB!

your faith at all. I expect your moral pastor will not share this with his congregation. There is a poison in American Christianity that will eventually destroy these people. They are trying to take the easy road in religion....just profess your "faith" and then do whatever mean, rotten thing you want to do.
I have a brother who has recently awakened from the sleep of this born-again type of thinking and he is beginning to realize that faith is actually work and not the easy coast these people have had. I wrote to congratulate him for finally doing God's real work now that he is fighting against the massacre in Iraq and the Bush Beast. It's hard for him though to fight the uphill, good battle. I remind him that this is what Jesus had to do.

Hi Stephen.

Sorry you took such obvious offense at my comments. Please remember that no one - that includes me, Pastor Ed, and members of the congregation speaks for our church on secular political matters. The e-mails you read were people expressing their views just as you are now expressing yours.

We must simply agree that we disagree. In this election, President Bush won all but about 16 states. My views are shared by a lot of Americans. And your views are also shared by a lot of Americans.

It would be unfortunate if you decided to leave our congregation because you disagree with some members' political views. We discuss politics occasionally and informally, and for many of us, faith counts when it comes to voting for public office; but, in the end, that's not why we choose to worship together at this church. We come together as a group each Sunday because we are believers in Jesus Christ, because we gain strength in our Christian relationships, and because we enjoy fellowship with other believers.

I would be happy to discuss this issue and your political views personally with you if you are interested.

xxxxxxxxxx

Things are moving quickly in GD. :bounce:

on my church's listserv.
____________________________

Ed,



Your emails were fine. I didn't feel that your email was offensive in any sort of way or trying to be political. Nobody should think that Ed's emails were the cause of my message. They weren't in the least. Period! My concerns go much deeper than if Ed mentioned politics in his emails. In fact, it is about time true religious people begin to speak out in politics because what I see in the media are nothing more than vitriolic vultures using religion to promote bigotry, fear, break-down of society, intransigence and intolerance.



Our government and society are in trouble and I put all the blame in the hands of the current administration and its party. So, I would not mind if true religious people spoke up in American society and actually taught what Jesus taught, compassion and justice for ALL! I am just sick of what religion has become here in the US. It turns my stomach. I have even had to block out on my TV all those incredibly inane "religious" broadcasting stations. Everytime Bush says, "God bless America!" I just want to smack him. He doesn't believe that. He is pandering nothing more.



Anyhow, I am so mad right now I could eat nails. Many people, approximately 59 million, need to turn off Fox News and start a real good analysis of what and who we are. If Bush's America is the thing, I'm moving to Spain!