You guys need to stop getting mad at kerry!!!

I keep seeing people here calling kerry a traitor for conceeding a lost election. This is completely ridiculous.

This is the problem with the democratic party. We shun and blame our candidates when they lose. We did it with gore and we did it with dukakis. You guys need to fuking stop this shit.

HE LOST THE ELECTION!!!!!!!

Voting fraud is just something you guys are clinging too. I wish there was voting fraud so we could accuse them of it but the best you guys can come up with is a discrepency between exit polls and the real results. That is NO proof. There was the thing in ohio with 4000 votes added to bush but as the article says they wouldve caught that in the verification process. Besides there would need to be 34 instances of that to actually have a kerry win. Even the republicans wouldnt pull that 34 times.

But if you really think there was voting fraud then what does it matter if kerry conceded? If there was voting fraud it will be caught with or without kerry. If he didnt concede he would have looked like the biggest sore loser ever. There would be no reason at the time for him not to concede. There was no evidence of voter fraud. And in the end he wouldve just held out, looked stupid, and lost anyways. You may have wanted him to do that because of the 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that he could actually win but i didnt.

Its for the good of america that he conceded. Another divisive recount or contested election would just be too much.


Dont get mad at the candidate when we lose. Its stupid. We lost. He conceded. Thats all there is to it. Voting fraud is unprovable. There are just a few little things that look wierd (like the exit poll numbers). There is NO way that anyone would give kerry the election for that. So his only option is to concede.

End of story.

The democratic party needs to stop going into blame mode when we lose. We need to be proactive. Start now all of you.

The mainstream news media have been spoon fed a new word by Bush/Rove. That word is "evangelical," and they are babbling it excitedly like babes at a day care to the exclusion of some very real issues impacting the Bush Presidency.

The second Bush/Rove pabulum is the Bush "mandate," also being belched along with the evangelical pill. Meanwhile, no one seems to entertain the possibility that the Bush "mandate" may mostly be an Electoral WMD.

That is not to imply that Republican grassroots efforts, moral values, the evangelical vote were important especially in Ohio. No question. Kerry was up against it in a nation voting with its Bible and belly instead of its brain. But, those issues are instantly eclipsed by the following:

1. Electronic (BBV) voting, or any voting method that does not leave a permanent paper trail which can be audited is a felony to democracy.

The legitimacy of democratic elections is predicated upon the electorate's ability to verify election results. To deny the people or any candidate the option of a recount is directly contrary to the democratic principles upon which this nation was founded. Therefore any voting method not leaving a permanent verifiable record should be eradicated forever from the American political landscape.

2. Re: Exit polling, please no more excuses or distortions. Exit polling always correlates within 2% with voting tallies. We need answers, or in the absence thereof, a serious investigation the following facts:

a. In Election 2004 the only exit polls that did not correlate closely with voting tallies were in states using BBV or a combination of methods including electronic machines. http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388" WHY?

b. In Election 2004, in every instance where there was significant statistical discrepancy between the exit polls and the voting tallies, George W. Bush was the recipient of additional votes and never John Kerry. WHY?

WI +4B MN +7B NC +9B FL +7B OH +6B CO +4B PA +5B NH +15B
NM +3B

WI Poll one 52-48 3rd 51-46 Final 52-47 Published 50-49
PA Poll one 60-40 3rd 54-45 Final 53-46 Published 51-49
OH Poll one 52-48 2nd 50-49 3rd 50-49 Final 51-49 Published 49-51
FL Poll one 51-48 2nd 50-49 3rd 50-49 Final 51-49 Published 47-52
MINN Poll one 58-40 3rd 58-40 Final 54-44 Published 51-48
NH Poll one 57-41 3rd 58-41 Published 50-49
NC Poll one 3rd 49-51 Final 48-52 Published 43-56

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000715.html
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt

***The statistical probability of a & b resulting from something other than random chance will be published shortly you can be assured.

c. "The last wave of national exit polls we received, along with many other subscribers, showed Kerry winning the popular vote by 51 percent to 48 percent." http://nytimes.com/2004/11/05/politics/campaign/05poll.html

I submit that these issues should be thoroughly investigated, not in any attempt necessarily to overturn the election, but to pursue the truth which is the mainstay of any democracy and which used to be the heart and soul of news journalism.

We should be regrouping not sniping at eachother.

but not attacking Kerry, yes.

dead duck and not worth the time.

Is it you who is in denial?

At this point there is only one issue and that's guaranteeing fair elections. I'm skeptical whether anyone who disagrees with this is really on our side, even Bill Clinton.

yea, sure, let's just trust that they will be fair and honest.
:eyes:

You cant prove that they werent fair and honest. They probably werent but again its unprovable and it leaves kerry with no option but to concede.


"If we don't correct the fraud now, we will never win another election!



Is it you who is in denial?"


Unlike 2000 there isnt any real concrete evidence of crap. And in 2000 we still lost. So why would you think that with no real evidence kerry could actually win the election?

I agree with you all that we should try to find voter fraud and obviously if we find something big then it doesnt matter that kerry conceded. He will still be president. But you shouldnt expect a presidential candidate to hold out while we try to find voter fraud. Thats just ridiculous.

"There are just a few little things that look wierd"

Man, where have I heard that bullshit before.

Why should we roll over,why!

If the Rethugs thought that even one of their votes had not been counted they would have been all over Kerry like Swift Boat Liars!

Why should we shut up!

I love Kerry with all my heart. He ran an awesome campaign IMO.

It ain't about the way the election numbers read on paper.
It is the way that our election process was stolen.


Every vote did not in hell count!

We should never roll over.Is there a chance in hell they will reverse this election? Hell no!

The rethugs know that they can bully us, we will wimp out and keep trying to search our soul to see what we did wrong.

The one thing that we did wrong was to trust the system. We believed that they would never steal another election from us. HA ha ha ha ha ha

Ok, well maybe a little surrender.

Some people waited in line for 10 hours....Kerry conceded little longer than 10 hours after the polls closed-BEFORE ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED!

we still don't know if he may have gotten more votes or not.

What would have mattered if there was maybe 24-48 hrs or longer before things were decided???

Bullshit..its all just another way of taking our votes from us.



FWIW-I don't blame Kerry- I blame the whole damn party.

good candidate and I think he gave up too easily. Further, I'm not too sure about any of our posters that have the "we just lost" meme or the "get over it". That sounds too much like what the pubs say.
We have lost all confidence in the political process as it is now structured. If that cynicism includes questions about the Democratic candidate or the DNC, its just part of our questioning everything.

The "end of story" hasn't been written. In fact, there's not such thing as the "end of story". All stories are events in progress.

"Further, I'm not too sure about any of our posters that have the "we just lost" meme or the "get over it". That sounds too much like what the pubs say."

I am NOT a republican. I just see this whole thing with people saying bush is an illegitimate president again and stuff and i just have to voice my opinion on this. He is a legitimate president this time. As much as it pains me to say it it is true.

of opinion and I consider you a brother for the cause. I'm so distrustful of the pubs that just about suspect everyone except myself. (and Molly Ivans)

I think someone had to have made at least 1000 posts at one point to post a new thread due to purposely misleading threads being started. No, I'm not certain this is one of those, I just noticed the original poster had made only 25 posts previously.

There are numerous threads about that on this board.

I'd rather have fights on this board than people physically smacking each other around because of pent-up anger. Freedom of speech and all that good stuff.

The election was a circus of fraud. There is no mandate. bush is illegitimate once again, and we must focus our energy there if we do not prevail in proving fraud. Locate the fracture lines in the Repub party and begin applying pressure.

I will never question my confidence in voting for Kerry.

"we still don't know if he may have gotten more votes or not."



When kerry conceded it didnt stop the vote counting. I keep seeing people here with that notion in their head. You are wrong. The votes will be counted. Kerry conceded when it became clear that there was really no chance that he would win with all the votes counted.

fine like-minded individuals. Adding Straight Shooter to my list...

and ask his supporters to join him.

"America is in need of unity and longing for a larger measure of compassion. I hope President Bush will advance those values in the coming years. I pledge to do my part to try to bridge the partisan divide. I know this is a difficult time for my supporters, but I ask them, all of you, to join me in doing that."

We need an OPPOSITION party.

LESS THAN JAKE?

Are you already reveling in your castration?

Do you enjoy being a joke?

a recount would have hurt kerry due to the sore loser bull, but a recount also would have tarred bush's "mandate" crap.

not to mention that it might have resulted in some actual election reform, which now will never happen. republicans will quietly continue to implement unprovable election manipulations well into the future.

1.) We need not bash Kerry at this point, its not helping.

2.) We spent the last 6 months bashing the polls shown in all of the media, and now we are basing some of objections on more polls? :wtf:

3.) If there is anomolies like the one in Ohio, where Bush was given 4000 extra votes, in a precinct of only around 650 people, it begs the question "How many other precincts did this happen in?" As they say "a thousand here, a thousand there, after a while you have a big number"

Not because he conceded the election but because HE LOST THE ELECTION.

This isn't about him and it never was. It was about our country and saving our democracy and he blew it. He gets to go back to his nice cushy Senate seat, and his nice cushy multimillion dollar townhouse while the rest of us get fucked.

He told us to find unity and common ground and healing with the neocon fascists, and acted like his loss was no big deal, AFTER he kept saying this was the most important election of our lifetimes. That says to me that he never fucking got what this election was about. For him, it was just about fulfilling what he always thought was his destiny, or what he was somehow owed. He would have fought just as hard if he was running against a sane, decent Rockefeller Republican.

I'll get as mad at Kerry as I fucking want. How is that even going to hurt him. He's not even going to know about it.

And I'm NOT the Democratic party. I'm just some poor sucker who's going to have to live under GWB for another four fucking years because of being sold out once again by the Democratic party.

You better fucking believe that I'm mad! If you don't like these kinds of messages, DON'T READ THEM!!!

who just became "politicized" last year and voted for Kerry this year. she started reading du everyday last year and watches joh stewart . she watched as edwards came out and said "every vote"...then i told her the next day kerry gave up-her reply-"well that wasn`t a very nice thing to do" i`m mad as hell he rolled over and played dead and she thinks it wasn`t a very nice thing to do....

take your karl rove talking points somewhere else. let`s see- oh yes i think that gore really did win. oh yes the democrats decided they did concede to early in florida. well this old democrat thinks this election was bullshit and that kerry caved in. so sorry for believing that every fuck`n vote should count ,it`s not the new american way is it? just remember the next time you vote they`ll make sure it doesn`t count or don`t you really care....

"take your karl rove talking points somewhere else. let`s see- oh yes i think that gore really did win. oh yes the democrats decided they did concede to early in florida. well this old democrat thinks this election was bullshit and that kerry caved in. so sorry for believing that every fuck`n vote should count ,it`s not the new american way is it? just remember the next time you vote they`ll make sure it doesn`t count or don`t you really care...."

Gore did win. I agree there.

But every vote will be counted.

VOTES DONT STOP BEING COUNTED WHEN SOMEONE CONCEDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now whether fraud occured is something that hasnt been proven yet. By all means we should try to prove it but as i said a presidential candidate shouldnt refuse to concede because he wants to find voter fraud. Think about this. If this was kerry and he won and bush refused to concede citing that he wanted to find voter fraud. Wouldnt you be really pissed off and him and call him a retard. I sure would.

spot i`d also believe the same thing-every vote should count-no matter where the chips may fall. there are to many "problems" in electronic voting to just dismiss that the election was a fraud. if kerry didn`t want to fight then edwards should have never said they wanted every vote to count-it`s obivous they didn`t stand by their words. maybe someday in the future there will be a democrat that will stand up and really be accountable for every vote the american people cast.

EVERY VOTE WILL BE COUNTED!!

How many times do i have to say that. Every vote is counted regardless of the concession.

And electronic voting may be a big fraud but you cant prove it and you cant refuse to concede to bush because electronic voting possibly could be fraudulent.

...I CAN refuse to concede. We use exit polling as a check/balance against fraud in other countries, but here, in the US, the exit polling just happened to be off by the numbers necessary to give the EC to George, and why does EVERY FAILURE break for Bush? His whole life, he's benefitted from FAILURE.

but I'm pretty damned sure that's exactly what he would have done. Face it, he just wanted this more badly than Kerry did.

What so many people like you blatantly fail to realize is:

1) The BBV's that disappeared are every bit as important as the provisional ballots. More so, in fact, because there is where the fraud is taking place.

2) Whether any of these votes would put Kerry over the top is IRRELEVANT. Kerry only caring about votes that would make him win is disgustingly selfish. Why? Because those people also voted for local candidates and propositions that are very important to people in those affected areas.

THAT is why we're so upset by Kerry...because his actions were selfish. "I can't win, so screw it" isn't the way to preserve democracy. Maintaining the integrity of our voting system is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing...even the Presidential election was secondary in importance.

I hope this will make people understand, finally, why Kerry's actions were selfish and inexcusable.

Also, the time to tackle BBV fraud is NOW!

Privatizing the once-public system of voting and allowing GOP-owned companies to count the inauditable votes is not in the best interest of the people. They know this as well as we do. Kerry knows this along with the rest of the Dem leadership. Evidently they have no problem with it.

when he knows he cant go over the top?

Its not his job to have anything to do with local elections. Why would he not concede due to local candidates. Thats retarded.

election fraud will be found. The problem is bigger than that though as in the bushes are above the law. Democrats must band together and make this stick and Bush needs to leave Washington, D.C. and go back to TX. It will only happen when the Dems claim their rights and if Kerry won the White House all Dem Congress and Senate people must stand behind it and not hid under their desks. For that to happen we will need to put the heat on them in the form of millions of phone calls. When the reports come out get your fingers ready to do the walking!