I'm leaving- this is my final opinion rant.

I'm leaving for a while.

My old drinking buddy's son is getting married, and I'm going to Ohio to attend. It's a trip I both look forward to and dread- I lived there many years, and it's a place I've tried to forget for just as long. While there I plan to cross the border into Indiana and visit the small farmland village (25 homes) where I was born and raised. Everybody needs to visit home from time to time, and after many years away, I've been given this chance. I have to take it.

This trip will give me a chance to clear my head- the current national disaster is all I've thought of since it took place. I've tried and failed to articulate my feelings even to myself. I need to try one last time before I go- it might as well be here.

It's my considered opinion that John Kerry is, in the end, a moral coward. There are three scenarios I've tried on- either the swift boat vets were right, he's been paid off, or he ran as a distraction and never intended to step up at all. I do not believe the first one. I do not believe the second one. That leaves the third one- John Kerry was a ringer. It's the only thing that makes sense.

He quit without a fight, which is astounding, because a fight is what everyone expected! There was an army assembled- lawyers, observers, and even a filmmaker or two. The eyes of the world were on this process; still, at the crunch, it all went up in smoke. John Kerry walked away just when the process was starting!

This is an insult to America. We NEEDED this fight. It was our chance to finally bust the bad guys. It was our chance to clean house. It was our chance to kick ass, take names, and make some arrests. It was Dano's chance to finally book 'em. It was our final chance to save this country from fascism. But John Kerry walked away.

For those of you who believe he "went behind the scenes to continue the investigation", wake up. You've been watching WAY too many episodes of Law And Order. He QUIT. It's OVER. If anyone here thinks he's going to suddenly pull a Poirot exposition in the national living room and give a name to the bad guy, forget it. When he conceded the election, it was over. Even if he WANTED to revisit it, it's too late. The bad guy WON. They've claimed their mandate. They've scheduled the bulldozers and wrecking balls. The wrecking crew is advancing on our country with sledgehammers and crowbars, and the Great Deconstruction is beginning as we speak.

We'll be in Iran within weeks. We'll be in Syria also. I'm sure North Korea will also be penciled in. The draft WILL begin- probably much sooner than we thought, now that Zippy the Pinhead's never-ending terra program has been approved. The filibuster will waver, and some new Zell Miller acolytes will take over from within the system. The court WILL be stacked, and all that is abhorrent to us will take place. The brownshirts are about to be unleashed.

All this will happen because one man wouldn't fight the good fight. Skull and Bones loyalty? An offer he couldn't refuse? A threat on his family? Who knows. Who cares. Doesn't matter. Whatever the real reason, Kerry walked away and left a broken nation to pay the price. And this time it won't be for just four more years- our Party is now decimated. One man rendered the Democrats impotent, infertile, and irrelevant.

In case you've forgotten your recent history, MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of people took to the streets to protest Iraq. And do you recall how much effect it had on those in the White House? None. Zero. Bupkus. Nada. Zilch. What in God's Name makes you think more of the same now will change a thing? They're laughing at us. They're mocking us. They do not care about us.

I hope a week or two back in the heartland will calm me down and change my feelings. I don't plan to turn on a radio or watch the TV for at least two weeks. I don't plan to sit in front of a computer and browse the web. I'm shutting it all down for a while, and returning to an older, simpler time for a few precious days.

I hope to God I'm proven wrong- I pray every single point in my rant is crossed off the list as disproven rhetoric. I do not WANT to be right about this- it would be more than I could bear. It would mean all the blood spilled in this country's defense has been rendered meaningless. All those now resting in Arlington Cemetery would be turned into a bad joke. The blood my father spilled in WWII Italy will have been made a mockery. I do not want this to be.

During my time as a member of the Democratic Underground, I admit I've not been the most active among you. As time passed I've restricted myself more and more to the lounge, or making snide comments and meaningless posts in other forums to make a small point or just to pass the time. I don't know how much respect I've garnered from others here, and I don't want to know. I just don't know if I'll ever be able to come back and experience the same spirit of all the freedom fighters that have gone before you fine people. Right now I feel grossly betrayed by one of our own. To my eye, John Kerry surrendered our country without so much as a whimper. I hope in time the taste of this will be washed from my mouth, but right now the bitterness is as fresh as my rage. I don't know if I'll be able to post here again. I hope I will.

Prove me wrong, Mr. Kerry. Please. Prove to the country you're not a traitor.

myself. Still shellshocked that Kerry just - went away. Knowing what he knows.

...a safe trip, visit the important places that made you who you are today and reflect. I think it will help you in the long run.

I hope you will come back, we are going to need everyone. All of us are burned out in some shape or form and to different degrees.

On a lighter note....Zippy the Pinhead? I love it.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

And if the Diebold investigations ultimately prove Kerry to be the legit winner (which I feel is somewhat possible), * will find another way to ensure he stays in power.

The establishment knew Dean was for real. I didn't participate much in the vicious posting during the primaries, but I can now say that we lost this race the second Iowa fucked us over by screwing Dean and nominating Kerry. Then Iowa voted Bush. Hey Iowa, FUCK YOU!

and I have my doubts about how John Kerry was selected there, in the first place, and I do not mean by Democrats in Iowa. I also don't think that Kerry lost Iowa, and that something really fucked up is going on.

And they would have taken Howard Dean down anyway -- don't you get it? They're not playing "normal" anymore. Howard Dean or Evan Bayh or the Green party or reaching out to Christians or moving left or moving center isn't going to do a GOD DAMN THING.

These people are corpo-fascist, big government authoritarian right-wingers, and they've tricked not only the rapture loonies into thinking they're for Jebus, but also the rest of the country into thinking that they're for federalism, small government and local control. Bet that goes out the window REAL fast, now that they have control of all three branches. But there's still one prize left, and that's the power to amend the Constitution at will. They will not stop until this goal is acheived.

You're fooling yourself, if your're thinking otherwise. I study critical theory, and I understand that what's happening here is that they're trying to REMOVE what we've always thought of as "objectivity," and replace it with their subjectivity as the new "objectivity." They're de-centering language, circumventing logic -- they're literally making a postmodern shift -- and their historical revisionism, nationalism, magical thinking, rootlessness, corporate control of the government and cultural supremacism is the very definition of fascism.

Don't let them tell you you're stupid for calling them out for what they are. They can try to control the discourse all they want, but they are authoritarian right-wingers, well on their way to becoming totalitarian right-wingers. Just make sure that you believe your "lying eyes" from now on.

To all of us in Iowa who are just as devastated by the turn of events as you are. There are many of us that thought Kerry was too much of a Washington insider, and tried to get Dean in. When Kerry became the nominee, we really had no choice but to fall in line and try to get him elected. Don't paint us all with the same brush. It doesn't accomplish anything.

expresses my true feelings, the feelings that I can not admit to myself. I couldn't read the whole thing; I skimmed it. But the meaning was clear. However, I am not emotionally ready to deal with this yet. I will not be able to put one foot in front of the other, go to work, maintain a relationship with my family and friends, if I allow myself to accept what you've expressed so well. Call it denial--your right, I prefer to call it self preservation. Anyone feeling the same?

The part about the impending draft made me break down in tears. My youngest son is 27 and I hope he won't have to fight in any of this monster's evil wars! I couldn't bare that. :cry:

you were brave to read it. I can't offer you any "feel good" words about the situation or your beloved son, but the first step towards fighting this evil is to recognize it. You, at least, are facing reality, something most Americans refuse to do.

in one of Bush's Wars. I will sell everything
I own if I have to, to make sure he gets out of
this country safely, and has a new start somewhere
else.

Right now, that somewhere else is probably Australia.
I have a good friend there who I can depend on to help
out if the need arises. My son is a teacher, so he would
land on his feet just fine. My husband and I would most
likely join him there after we retire.

No blood from my family will be shed for Bush...ever.

Whatever I have to do! My son said he would go to jail before he would go to war for this evil monster. I don't want him to have to do either.

Thanks for speaking the truth. Best wishes for you and yours and may God protect us.

Ahhh the illusion of America is so powerful in people's minds. Constitution shredded, hideous war, mass detentions of innocents, organized and sanctioned torture of people including children, complete disregard for the international community, rigged elections, corrupt and dishonest press, and still people believe in the beautiful dream of America and refuse to seek out and face the truth.

Now the truth comes looking for us. And it will find us.

I think we see too much analysis and take in too much information and don't always put our full attention on things - we suffer from information overload and are in a kind of stupor that nothing penetrates.

I know I am speaking English to English speaking people, so it can't be that.

the provisional ballots ARE being counted.

By conceding Kerry is above the fray while the third parties are free to uncover fraud AND count the provisional ballots. Remember the electoral college does not convene until december.

In the meantime any and all anecdotal evidence of GOP dirty tricks in ohio should be relayed to newspaper reporters. Thanks to a reporter at the right wing endorsing Cincinnati Enquirer we now know that Warren County Ohio counted ballots with no oversight.

Warren's vote tally walled off

Alone in Ohio, officials cited homeland security

By Erica Solvig
Enquirer staff writer


LEBANON - Citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio's returns.

County officials say they took the action Tuesday night for homeland security, although state elections officials said they didn't know of any other Ohio county that closed off its elections board. Media organizations protested, saying it violated the law and the public's rights. The Warren results, delayed for hours because of long lines that extended voting past the scheduled close of polls, were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush's re-election.

"The media should have been permitted into the area where there was counting," Enquirer attorney Jack Greiner said. "This is a process that should be done in complete transparency and it wasn't."

Warren County Emergency Services Director Frank Young said he had recommended increased security based on information received from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in recent weeks.

Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn't publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

No, I'm not saying you're stupid...just paraphrasing the old slogan! :)

Until there's an investigation into the BBV, there will never be another honest election again. Provisional ballots are only part of the picture.

Which Kerry knows damned good and well, and that's why so many people (like me) are furious with him. By caving in, he hasn't just destroyed the trust of tens of millions of voters (who probably won't vote again--why stand in long lines for nothing?), he's also made it infinitely harder for any future Democratic candidate to get out the vote.

This, and the voter fraud, will make our country a one-party system for generations to come.

Kerry had the chance to save us from this, and he threw it away. For that, he deserves the contempt he's been getting.

absentee ballots ent to former Ohio residents who were urged to vote their former state residence.

a little hear, a little there it all subtracts from the total

the provisional ballots are being verified as to eligibility and then counted

Kerry could have held the attention in the media. Without it, who will listen regardless of what happens? Can you really imagine him stepping back up and saying, Now hold on just a minute there! I can't.

Scandal and disasters are what newspapers live for. All it takes is one reporter and one editor of one newspaper.

Dayton Daily News?
Toledo Blade?
Plain Dealer?
Knight-Ridder?

It's not going to be revisited to any great extent.

Sure, let's jump all over Kerry for what he did. Let's eat our own. Most of you don't remember Nam, so don't even think of calling him out now. Those of us who do remember know you have no idea of what you are talking about. That's what chickenhawks do. Stand down!

Professor 2

Fourteen hours after John Edwards said somthing along the lines of...We will not give up until the last vote from the last person standing in the last line is counted, win lose or draw....Kerry threw in the towel and suggested I join hands with the nearest fascist and sing Kumbaya. He FLIP-FLOPPED.

Those who advocate cooperation with fascists are NOT my own....and if you plan to cooperate with fascists or make silly fucking excuses for those that do you aren't my own either.

What the fuck has Viet'Nam' got to do with anything? Don't you even thing of invoking the name of those who fought to protect the sanctity of our electoral process in defense of a man who abandoned that fight. You see, every male member of my family for the past 125 years fought for that right...including myself....and Mr. Kerry just flushed it down the shitter.


RC

Guess everyone who disagrees with you is not one of "your own." Don't YOU even think of invoking those names to justify your rant. I feel only pity for you. Stand Down! "Including you?" Just asking.

Professor 2

You don't need to guess buddy...I'll tell it to you straight out. Those who advocate comprimise with fascists are not my own. I pity the loss of life and limb the male members of your family suffered...if the resultant product is thinking like your own.


RC

I believe Kerry did the right thing and you will have a different view of things later. On edit -- Of course I might be the one who has a different view later. We just all need to take time to be good to ourselves.

I assume your name comes from "The Prisoner" so...
Who is Number One?

Enjoy your break and come back from it energized and strong!

:)

do. And it makes me sick to my stomach. Stay and fight? For What?

Unless something turns around before the inauguration, I am setting my sights on continuing the fight from abroad.

any other explanation I've heard so far. :-( I certainly don't want to believe that Kerry simply abandoned us without so much as even an hours' worth of fight, but it certainly appears he did just that.

A lot of people think he caved because Skull and Bones wanted Bush to win. Whether he did or not, it's still disgusting to roll over so quickly, after promising to fight the good fight for weeks. Even Edwards was telling him not to concede yet. Sheesh!

It captures many of my own feelings. I hope you can find some peace and healing during your visit home.

The fight has gone out of me for the time being. I find myself just wanting to create my own little bubble and shut out the outside world, and the horror that's about to be unleashed.

I have always viewed this president in catastrophic terms, and this was a do or die election. We lost, and now we're fucked.

I agree with you. I am so miserable about how are "leaders" have acted, and then Clinton tells us to quit whining. Very lonely and painful times. I hope you find some peace on your trip.

If our leaders have left us, then we must lead ourselves. THAT IS A BETTER POSITION ANYWAY. There are more ways to shift the direction of a society than in the voting booth.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110504_snap_out.shtml">Michael Ruppert has said this and he is right. THE BOTTOM LINE IS MONEY, NOT VOTES.

They use ideology to concentrate wealth. We have to separate the ideology from the money.

Even my very mild unemotional husband finally came up with the same anger at Kerry last night.

We needed the fight, at least. If he didn't understand that WE (the so-called losers from 2000) wanted, and needed a fight-then he understood nothing.

The thought was that I didn't know John Kerry at all. Which I didn't. I thought he would fight. But maybe he was too civil, too patrician, too mainstream to challenge Bush. If you are challenging at the very least really rotten morally devalued ideolgues (see I refrained from evil) then you can't just congratulate them and ask your followers to unite.

As my husband said, unite behind what, lies, corruption, plundering the country for our children's generation?

By not fighting, and getting I don't know-the numbers closer to a frigging tie than a MANDATE, well look what Kerry handed Bush-the illusion of a mandate. The worse outcome of all.

I still feel in my gut that we won. But without our captain to lead us, we are feeling bereaved and bereft.

I find my hope in DU. Their belief in Kerry-which is much like my own-makes me feel better. It's irrational I know, but it means they believe in the people of this country more than feel derision for them. I still believe in America. That's why I'm here.

The anger gives me hope, too. Without anger, we cannot find the truth, and we cannot find justice.

<< It's my considered opinion that John Kerry is, in the end, a moral coward. There are three scenarios I've tried on- either the swift boat vets were right, he's been paid off, or he ran as a distraction and never intended to step up at all. >>

Unfortunately, I agree with this part of your theory - Kerry was nothing more than a PNAC plant.

Where the fuck is John F. Kerry the courageous fighter and war hero anyway?

I have no respect for Senator Kerry left, absolutely NONE.

DEMOCRACY IS DEAD!

:dem:

Seriously, I hope you come back after your rest. I've always valued your posts, even though I've mostly been a lurker.

We'll know what's up with Kerry soon, I hope.

Based on the information available at the time, Kerry conceded because the legal fight would only further polarize the country. Much of what we hear right now about exit poll results, paperless ballots, etc. is not yet well-grounded in solid evidence. Trust me, there are PLENTY of lawyers and investigators evaluating the voting process like never before. If Kerry were to remain in a high-profile position, disputing the results of the election, it would only further damage his credibility as a national leader (ESPECIALLY if these investigations ultimately did not prove that Kerry won). Better for Kerry to bow out gracefully while his supporters and other groups work behind the scenes to evaluate the voting process. And even if such investigations do nothing to help this year's election, they will certainly help improve the integrity of our process for future elections.

that is EXACTLY what this country needs.

we need to be polarized to the point that the ultimate confrontation needs to take place.

but, it is now water under the bridge. once the media moves on, you won't be able to get their focus again.

kerry should have said he will NOT concede until HIS people investigating all the irregularities tells him to, then list all the irregularities.

yes, it was too quick, too easy for him. if this had happened to al gore, i believe that al would have kicked ass and named names. he may not have won in the end, but he WOULD have honored all those who fought for him by fighting for THEM. he learned his lesson last time. also, dean would not have bent over so quickly.

we need a complete transfusion of NEW blood in the democratic party. blood that still has some fight left in it.

either that, or a MAJOR enema to get rid of all the shit that is clogging up the party's ideals, releasing their ability to put forth the ideas that americans can truly identify with, AND their ability to articulate them.

apparently it is going to be left up to us to make sure one of those happens.

First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Ghandi. Don't give up. :)

Couldn't have said it better myself....though not for lack of trying.

RC

I don't know what to believe anymore

Not a freakin super hero. Can you imagine campaigning your heart out, criss crossing the country like he did in those final weeks. Then the anxiety and the hopes on that final day, and then suffering a loss of that magnitude. Knowing that all of these people were counting on you and you lost after working 20 hours a day? Can you imagine the let down? Can you imagine the depths of his despair and then having to go out and give a concession speech?

I think he did what he felt was right. The system is broken right now and it needs an overhaul, but if he tried to fight it right now, he would always be looked upon as a sore loser. He wouldn't have won, no matter how hard he tried.

Let the guy rest and give him a break.

instead of conceding the day-after-the-election.

There were electronic voting machines which displayed "George W. Bush" on the confirmation page after people had chose "John Kerry."

Kerry should be sueing over this. People didn't necessarily catch this on the confirmation page.

We should end electronic voting, not just add a voter-verified-prinout.

there is no reason to have electronic voting except to steal elections as far as I am concerned.
Why Kerry gave in so quick is mind boggling as well as numbing to me. I believe he has no clue how we are feeling right now or that he even cares. I am feeling duped and yet, damn it I still want to be proven wrong.

:(

have every right to express their grief and anger at one who promised them the moon, many gave them what little they had not only with thier valued time but many monetarily, and many of them could ill afford such expenses, yet give they did, and they have a right to be heard, seen, and understood....

I believe that is what this board is for, to aid in unifying our country, not just our base, we don't have to agree, but we DO have to agree to disagree, it's only human and it is what democracy should stand for..

So in effect, we need to give them a break too...he is not the only one who suffered, and monetary wise, he is suffering not at all as many on here still do..

instead of giving it to the DNC.

Many of us risked our financial futures with our donations, but Kerry wouldn't even keep that $6 million in Democratic hands though his economic future is assured.

Those of us who have been saying this for the past few days have been flamed to bits...People just don't want to accept reality. We live in an ignorant country, and we got destroyed on tuesday across the board. It's over...and everyone knows it...they just can't bring themselves to admit it and move on.

Bush won by the narrowest margin of any incumbent. Kerry won the second most popular votes of any presidential candidate.

Dynamics shift, cultural moods shift - the middle is fickle.

For the pugs, the center will not hold. It never does. That's just the way it goes.

We will win in the end. We always do. We won against the robber barons. We won the civil rights movement. The pugs have to at least make nice sounds about the environment cuz they know most Americans want environmental protections.

We will win on the gay marriage issue. Civil unions are coming. Even Cheney wants them. Once that happens full marriage is on its way.

The pendulum shifts, but the base upon which it rests is always moving in our direction.

Think about that.

This is why the right wing base always feels besieged. This is why even when they control everything they are nervous. They always feel the hot breath of change on the back of their necks. It makes them paranoid It ultimately brings them down.

And ultimately this is why they are vicious, hollow people. They know their victory will be short. The only succor they really get from this 'victory' is spite, which is what they are, like vultures, feeding on now right now. How does it taste, heh? Bitter?

My wife and I are deciding on which country to flee to. Spain, France, Ireland or the UK (Scotland). Canada is too close and will soon be crowded, although we love it. I must leave or most certainly face imprisonment. In my advancing years I find myself reverting to the violent reactionary of my youth. The Army taught us to fight and kill and were depressingly successful. Violence is too easy to be inheirantly honorable. I should like my remaining years to have some honor attendant. I wish they had not made us take the oath to protect and defend the Constitution against enemies from without and from within, it has become a burden that grows heavier daily. It is best that I leave.
In closing, as an enlisted man (E5), I never trusted officers.

I deleted it because the finished product was just to frightening for me to read.

If I stay here I will no doubt end up in prison.

RC

Professor 2

to two people outside this country - to ask about jobs and moving

I can still vote from elsewhere - but if I am in gitmo or the oven - I can do nothing

But take care and have the trip of your life! :toast:

If we don't meet again, then "Vaya con Dios."

namaste,
-s

And I am considering doing the same thing.

Good luck to you.

and sadly so.

How can you say Kerry "ran as a distraction and never intended to step up at all" and is "a ringer"?
He mortgaged his house when it looked as if he was going to lose in the primary.
He chose a running mate that every Democrat in Washington urged him to pick to increase his chances of winning.
He handily won all three debates.
He criss-crossed the country and brought in huge crouds wherever he went.
He worked to register millions of new, Democratic voters.
He attracted more individual donations and more total money than anyone in the history of the Democratic party.

All of this with the intention of losing? That is absolutely ridiculous.

Professor 2

"He mortgaged his house when it looked as if he was going to lose in the primary.
He chose a running mate that every Democrat in Washington urged him to pick to increase his chances of winning.
He handily won all three debates.
He criss-crossed the country and brought in huge crouds wherever he went.
He worked to register millions of new, Democratic voters.
He attracted more individual donations and more total money than anyone in the history of the Democratic party."

AND THEN HE WALKED AWAY.

mortgaging his house, $6 million, to the Democratic Party for the general election instead of taking it back?