I no longer have any respect for Bill Clinton.

I totally supported and idolized that man until I read his NY Post comments. Bush was not a "good messenger with a good message" and I will not support the idea of being more socially consevative. Now I know Bill DID tell Kerry to support the constitutional ban on gay marriage and Kerry refused. I was stupid enough to think that was freeper slander. And I won't stop "Whining" about the election , Bill. You can go cheney yourself. Obviously the ex president DOES have an agenda, and it is not a liberal one! Anyone else feel this way??? Right in DU Read It.


http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31816.htm

By LOIS WEISS

November 6, 2004 -- Former President Bill Clinton, in his first comments on President Bush's re-election, yesterday urged Democrats not to "whine" about the outcome, but to find a "clear national message."

Clinton also said that Democrat John Kerry was hurt by the polarizing issue of gay marriage, which was legalized by Massachusetts' top court and put on the ballot in 11 states, and the surfacing of a tape from Osama bin Laden in the final days of the race.

Reminded of terrorism by the bin Laden tape, voters decided they didn't want to "change horses" during a time of heightened concern over national security, Clinton said in a speech to the Urban Land Institute at the New York Hilton.

Clinton said Hispanic voters tilted to Bush because of terrorism fears, as did suburban "soccer moms," who Clinton said turned into "the security moms of 2004."

He also said that while Democrats registered more new voters than Republicans, the Bush campaign did a better job of getting voters to the polls who were already registered but had not previously voted.

Despite the GOP victory, the former president — whose wife Hillary is already being mentioned as the top contender for the White House in 2008 — said Democrats "shouldn't be all that discouraged" by Kerry's defeat.

Clinton said it would be "a mistake for our party to sit around and . . . whine about this and that or the other thing."

Clinton attributed Kerry's loss to the Democrats' failure to combat how they were portrayed by Republicans to small-town America.

"If we let people believe that our party doesn't believe in faith and family, doesn't believe in work and freedom, that's our fault," he said.

Democrats "need a clear national message, and they have to do this without one big advantage the Republicans have, which is they won't have a theological message that basically paints the other guy as evil," he said.

Clinton said the country was more divided than it was in 1968 and called for an end to the "culture war."

In his hourlong speech Clinton, who had open-heart surgery in September, gave Bush and the Republicans full credit for the election victory.

"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy," he said.

Clinton said Bush should use his second term to move toward less dependence on foreign oil.

"This election presents a great opportunity for President Bush and a great opportunity for Democrats, and the two are not necessarily in conflict," he said.

The biggest opportunity he noted was the prospect of an Israeli-Palestinian peace amid the impending demise of Yasser Arafat.

Peace in the region would "take enormous steam" out of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism worldwide, Clinton said. "They would have to think of a new excuse to murder people."

Great speaker, and it is a fair point to say that you can't do anything if you can't win elections and work with people, but still he's not someone I trust 100% to do the right thing.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

in Arkansas.

And don't forget who tried to end the ban on gays in the military at considerable political cost.

Ralph the next time.

ONLY reason I voted for Kerry this time was I was hoping the power of ABB would knock ** out, but I had too much faith in them to step up and fight the fraud. I still harbor a small hope they will come out and do so, but ....well, I won't hold my breath and I won't leave it all up to them. I will do my part as best as I can!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

It was your group that gave us Bush in the first place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

in the 2k election...for all we know, less then a few million people voted for geebush nationwide....the coup took care of that. Bush is a boor and a noisome idiot, yet you get all these highly attuned yuppie media types singing, literally singing the creep's praise, so it isn't just ralph nader....maybe Ralph KNEW what was going down, and at risk of his life tried to preserve some sense of decency for the american people by saying the 2 partys were in cahoots and bush was already selected

Lots of people voted for Nader the first time, not realizing what a dnager Bush would be and thus voted for Kerry this time. We have nobody but the democrats to blame for loosing this election; well maybe Diebold, but that's another story entirely.

The kind of fractious in-fighting you're engaging in is just what they're hoping for.

The game is over. The US lost. We lost. We actually lost several years ago, but we're waking up. Is there something I don't know that can give you hope that anything at all can or will change? If so, please let me know. I'd love to hear it.

Don't use your fellow Democrats as scapegoats. They're not the enemey.

The DLC brought us victory. The perfect is the enemy of good.

is because of the Clinton Charisma. They have now lost twice. Get with the program. This is 2004. We didn't have Clinton and they keep rerunning 1992. This is a different world and they don't adapt. You don't get it.

the saintly Che once said that. Anyway, the people who voted for that dunce boosh are in for years of pain, and the lies of the mass media bushitters that they depend on, will fade as mediawhores realize the disaster they've affected....lol
we weren't resisting the 'chimp-in-charge' for ourselves, we were trying to prevent the country from going off deep end, but the country did anyway, and by not raging against what's happening, the US people are saying it's ok.....and unless you're worried for family friends etc, it's a waste of energy. i hate bush and his flying monkee mobs because they're repulsive, like a rotting corpse floating in dirty water and being fed on by greasy rats.....let's not cry for the goddam country, it can go fuk itself

And I want my party back. I have said screw the DLC before, and I'll say it again. Do you think they represented us? Do you think that we should try more of the same in order to win? Even if he is right , we need to be more liberal not less. We pandered too much to those people. I will NEVER bow to social conservatism. And I will NEVER engage in support for Bush. He is NOT my president. And fixed machines clearly don't bother Clinton either. He certainly isn't the first black president any longer. Or perhaps you believe that the black vote really is for Bush?

the rigged voting machines? Americans, that ones that don't frequent this site, SmirkingChimp and a few other left of center sites, have no idea about the security problems of e-voting machines with paper trails.

And thanks to the duplicity of the main stream media, most Americans never will know how vulnerable these systems are.

Maybe Big Dog doesn't know any thing about e-voting rip-offs either.

But I will not blame my fellow Democrat. They're not the enemy. The radical conservative Repukes are.

He's was quite middle of the road.

good president...In this election I really became a very big Kerry supporter...I was not to turn on to him in the beginning but as I got to know him I found him to be a very decent man and thought he would have made a wonderful president.

Now we hate Bush for the same idealism. The difference is that Clinton's policies created enormous growth and respect for this country. Bush has done the opposite.

..who post comments attributed to Clinton with no link as to their source. NY Post article? Let's see the link to Mr. Murdoch's rag.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31816.htm

By LOIS WEISS

November 6, 2004 -- Former President Bill Clinton, in his first comments on President Bush's re-election, yesterday urged Democrats not to "whine" about the outcome, but to find a "clear national message."

Clinton also said that Democrat John Kerry was hurt by the polarizing issue of gay marriage, which was legalized by Massachusetts' top court and put on the ballot in 11 states, and the surfacing of a tape from Osama bin Laden in the final days of the race.

Reminded of terrorism by the bin Laden tape, voters decided they didn't want to "change horses" during a time of heightened concern over national security, Clinton said in a speech to the Urban Land Institute at the New York Hilton.

Clinton said Hispanic voters tilted to Bush because of terrorism fears, as did suburban "soccer moms," who Clinton said turned into "the security moms of 2004."

He also said that while Democrats registered more new voters than Republicans, the Bush campaign did a better job of getting voters to the polls who were already registered but had not previously voted.

Despite the GOP victory, the former president — whose wife Hillary is already being mentioned as the top contender for the White House in 2008 — said Democrats "shouldn't be all that discouraged" by Kerry's defeat.

Clinton said it would be "a mistake for our party to sit around and . . . whine about this and that or the other thing."

Clinton attributed Kerry's loss to the Democrats' failure to combat how they were portrayed by Republicans to small-town America.

"If we let people believe that our party doesn't believe in faith and family, doesn't believe in work and freedom, that's our fault," he said.

Democrats "need a clear national message, and they have to do this without one big advantage the Republicans have, which is they won't have a theological message that basically paints the other guy as evil," he said.

Clinton said the country was more divided than it was in 1968 and called for an end to the "culture war."

In his hourlong speech Clinton, who had open-heart surgery in September, gave Bush and the Republicans full credit for the election victory.

"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy," he said.

Clinton said Bush should use his second term to move toward less dependence on foreign oil.

"This election presents a great opportunity for President Bush and a great opportunity for Democrats, and the two are not necessarily in conflict," he said.

The biggest opportunity he noted was the prospect of an Israeli-Palestinian peace amid the impending demise of Yasser Arafat.

Peace in the region would "take enormous steam" out of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism worldwide, Clinton said. "They would have to think of a new excuse to murder people."


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Clinton and Bush are both in collusion to distract voters from what the main issues are. I wonder if Clinton still supports nation building?

Are you the opposition?

Me? The opposition? I donated $2000 to the Kerry campaign--through this website. My spouse was persuaded to give another $1000--through this website.

How much did YOU give?

A perfect example of what is wrong with the elitist branch of the Dem Party. I gave the what I couldn't afford. And how much is not pertinent. I will say I worked over twelve hours a day on the campaign in the final stretch and have been working on the Kerry campaign since the Primary . I am both a county and state Democratic Party Official. What are you?

I was refuting your accusation that I'm the opposition.

I was born into a working class family in rural America. I contributed heavily because I felt this election was important. Where did the money come from? I SAVED MY PENNIES.

I have been active in the Dem Party for almost 20 years. The specifics are not your business.

If you're a party official, shouldn't you be doing something more constructive than blaming Clinton? What a load of crap. You are deliberately promoting in-fighting instead of party unity. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I don't have time for this garbage.

What he says. And I don'r respect the DLC. Why is my statement infighting and yours not? So I can't disagree? But you can disagree with me? Don't you sound like George. And I would never refer to a fellow posters remarks as garbage. Even yours!

misunderstanding.

And I wasn't calling YOU or your remarks "garbage." I think that blaming Clinton is garbage.

But since it now seems that you are not blaming Clinton after all, I guess there is no garbage!

Can't we just all get along?

:)

lost respect for him. I don't agree with pandering to the social conservatives. And I do wonder about what his intentions were with his statements.And I certainly will NEVER support Bush as he suggests. But you certainly have the right to your opinion and I to mine.Thanks for the response!

1. I cannot imagine a scenario under which I could possibly support BushCo.

2. I do not believe in pandering to social conservatives.

I just think that focusing on Clinton right now is a waste of our time and energy. He is a peripheral figure.

Warm regards!
Ewan I.

Why Clinton and other Democrats seem to need to praise Republicans. I never see the reverse, just continuous bashing of Democrats. Why isn't Clinton spending some time speaking about all of the attempts to suppress the votes of African Americans. Leaders of the party are very silent about that.

that Kerry did not put up a satisfying public fight.

But you must remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat (apologies to animal lovers). Sometimes it is strategically preferable to "play along" until you are well-positioned to strike.

Kerry IS a man of principle, and he knows how to walk the line between timidity and aggression. His 3 Purple Hearts (i.e., he almost bought the farm 3x) tells us this is so.

Zen: When pushed, pull; when pulled, push.

ReThugs are deliberately trying to provoke us into a fight. Has it occurred to you that THEY would benefit if we responded in the way they expect/want?

I suspect the Dem leadership has something in mind, and it may not necessarily be a direct confrontation with BushCo. BushCo tends to win such direct confrontions. Another approach is called for.

WE, of course, can continue to be vocal--so long as we do not direct anger at our own. That's a waste of time/energy and it benefits the ReThugs. Find yourself a nice ReThug target (e.g., a corporation that gave to BushCo, or Karl Rove) and blow that target to smithereens with controlled, focused anger.

Let the Dem leaders handle one prong of our strategy (let them sing a melodious lullaby); while we handle the instrumentation (we shake the tambourines like a rattlesnake and beat the drums of war).

Losing the election was bad enough throwing that on top of it just sent me over the edge! And if Hillary has any ideas for 2008 she needs to dump that asshole or I will campaign against. NO RETREAT NO SURRENDER!

We need to listen to everyone, especially the Big Dawg.

the pro choice and gay rights planks from our platform in order to win? Sorry. I quit first. Haven't you noticed how many DU'ers are leving this board over nasty anti gay comments lately? Our own are accusing the gays are costing us the election. Some are already accusing women!

Why believe something Rupert Murdoch wrote?

Haven't you noticed how many DU'ers are leving this board over nasty anti gay comments lately?

Haven't you noticed that low-count DUers and Rupert Murdoch are saying the same thing? Do you think that's a coincidence?

they're the ones who try conjure up images of xxx by saying gay this or same sex, so why let them? maybe (nudge nudge wink wink) it's time to 'con' the fukking goofas who vote in a dufus like geebush, and then bring out the 'fair and progressive' aspect after (plus enjoy the mediawhores raging at the shameless liars etc!).....iow win at all cost, then deny deny deny lie like bastards and tell the xians that it's THEY who make politics a con game, by demanding dishonesty in otherwise normal live-let live people who just want to bwe let alone and treated fairly, in exchange for paying the goddam taxes...

And the last one for me. I say go Cheney yourself too, Bill!

I personally don't care about Gay marriage one way or the other. It sure isn't going to affect me. But the majority is ALWAYS afraid of change! I honestly thought the Gays were playing the typical negotiating game. Always ask for much more than you expect, then you really get what you're asking for.

I don't think it would be a hard to get a majority to OK Civil Unions, and that's a big step from where you were.


Bill Clinton recognized that, and you need to think about it. Bill & Hillary learned the hard way when they tried to push through the health care system. It really was a good idea, but it was too dramatic, so instead of winning little by little, they lost the whole thing.

First, you mis-stated what his advice to Kerry was which was, in all seriousness, deeply rooted in principles of federalism, i.e. that marriages and always have been governed by state law and that the states should sort it out for themselves exactly the way they are doing.

The whining remark was cruel but spot-on in one respect: he apparently does not believe that the election, as it developed, could be challenged. This was, IIRC, prior to the problems (ie 4,000 votes in Ohio, the Florida diebolds and the hacking, etc) and his advice was sound for what was known at the time.

In this instance, I think that Bill Clinton has misjudged what occurred and it is the first time I find myself in disagreement with him over an election-logistic issue but I do not think that image was the problem in 04.

I think the problems were two-fold and not overcome by regular politicians ... the hard rightward tilt of commercial media and the smash-mouth lying deception that swathed the gop campaign.

But I do understand what he is saying and it does not cause me to lose respect.

I did NOT mis-state it. If everyone in the Dem party thinks like this I wwill have to leave this crappy country because there will be no hope for us.

I have seen that canard no where.

what is right here. Do a google if you don't believe me.

to support the anti gay marriage amendment in order to get the fundie vote. It is quoted in a newspaper article here on DU. I didn't believe it until today.

Newsweek said he suggested supporting state resolution per whatever process the state used.

He'll say something you like and then he'll be your hero again. Such is the way at DU. See Ralph Nader re: New Hampshire for example. :eyes:

I shouldn't have singled out you specifically. It's just a trend I've noticed at DU and I had to comment on it. I especially noticed during the campaign, every time McCain said something good for us we loved him, we forgave him, and every time he supported Bush he was a sell-out and an asshole. Talk about a memory hole. :eyes:

As a person living in Az I have every reason to hate him! :)

Sometimes the truth hurts and alot of people here are have to move on
and start thinking about 2006.

you still can't ignore this aspect of it. And yes we have to fight against the machines as well. Donate to www.blackboxvoting.org

Political theorum class when you read what Clinton said and stop taking it so personnal. For all political purposes, his observations are accurate.

Look, no matter how much we all hate Bush, and we knew his message was BS; it was a good message to the soccer moms and dads of America. He had paralyzed them with fear, then based his message and campaign on that premise.

You can see clearly what happens to the idealists and the purists, look at Jerry Brown, and in this instance even look at Kerry, even though I thought Kerry's message was far from extreme.

Clinton knows, he is a professional politician, how to work the political system, hold the office and then to try like hell to promote liberal ideals to the best of one's ability. The whole thing is about compromise, deals. It's a game, and he knows that good guys usually finsh last and don't get the prize. Unfortunately for all of us, he couldn't keep his zipper up. I voted for him twice, and if there were no term limitations, would vote for him again.

I've run the gamut with politicians since Bobby Kennedy. You younger ones better fucking wake up and stop acting like such spoiled little brats. Oh, I didn't get this, Oh, I didn't hear this, Oh, I'm SOOOOOOOO hurt. I'll never do this again, and I'll never do that again, and, oh, I'll never trust anyone again.

This is the way it works. Man, I hope you're never in a crisis situation with me, and my life depended on it. Consider what you're in right now as political bootcamp and stop taking it so fucking personal and read between the fucking lines.

WE WERE FUCKING ROBBED.

Clear enough for you?

:grr:

you are such novices.

Yes, we probably were robbed. What are you going to do about it? We are talking about software that is not retrievable and is gone into thin air. So, what's the next alternative? Armed resistance? I doubt that even half of you would participate in that.

Maybe they will come up with something, maybe Clinton was putting out some smoke, maybe not and he was addressing this whole issue on a political level.

You are acting out like a bunch of helpless mutineers, steady in the trenches. Wait and see before you stick your head out of the foxhole just to get it blown off.

Vietnam and I marched against Hunger. I marched for women's rights and I have been a Democratic Party official in two states. I have campaign managed several campaigns. And I resent your talking down to me. Many people who are more politically savvy than I attest to the same feelings I have. You may think as you wish but don't you dare try to condescend to me.

been a "conservative" Democrat. He has never been on the far left. Personally, i was never that wild about him, the only reason I like him is because he was able to drive the RWers crazy and get away with it. Pathetic isn't it--I only like him because he is hated by the RWers.

Otherwise--I don't really care for what the things he did as president--things like "don't ask don't tell" and welfare reform etc. All he did was try to make our party Republican--lite. In my opinion Clinton really was not a great pres at all. Yes, I do love it that he pisses the RWers off--and so I will always verbally support him around them. However, he is definitely NOT my idea of a good president. I rank him behind Carter, LBJ and FDR who all pursued a REAL liberal agenda. One of the worst Democratic president ever = Clinton who ran and governed as a pseudo Republican.

And to all the DLC democrats who are happy with pseudo Republicans--kiss my ass.

his/her left arm for him to be running, no matter what platform he had.

And he would have WON!

And today would have been a better day.

Some of you are really full of shit to be dissing Bill Clinton.

He knew how to win..rare amoung our party lately.