any leaked/insider info on whether kerry and edwards

are keeping a low profile while working to effectively challenge the election results, given that concession is not legally irreversible?

but there are plenty of disruptors who will claim to be insiders in order to trick people into thinking Kerry is doing nothing.

gullible here into thinking Kerry is doing SOMEthing about this stolen election.

I will be very happy to be proven wrong. Whadya wanna bet me, tho?

otherwise, I think you're lying about that.

The silence is deafening, isn't it?

Doesn't it seem a bit...unnatural? Hmmm?

I was hoping either Kerry or Edwards would do something VERY public to (at the very least) keep up the moral of all of us who fought the ground game....so far....nothing......

Al Sharpton quiet? Does not compute. Jesse Jackson quiet? Since when? I could go on and on, but it is truly unnatural. No longer unnerving, though. The first day it was, now I think we have a handle on why they're quiet. If we're right, then they can be as 'qwiet as wabbits' until the job is done. ;)

He is ending his 23 year marriage...divorce filed, could get ugly. Connect the dots and you can pretty well figure out why. Al needs to stay out of the way until he sorts that mess out. He just would not be all that helpful at this juncture.

Sharpton may be in the middle of a divorce, but that doesn't end his career. If anything, he'll need that more than ever to fall back on. If something wasn't holding him back (and I don't mean a divorce), he would be screaming loud and long about the disenfranchisment of minority voters in Florida and other states. But he isn't. Standing up for voters would not hurt his divorce case. He could even handle it remotely, like he did the appearance on 'The Daily Show' the night of the election.

I've been familiar with Sharpton for over 20 years. NOTHING keeps him quiet, certainly nothing that his divorce lawyers can't handle, but he's quiet now. Makes me wonder is all. :shrug:

not going to be messy. They plan to continue working together on some of the projects they're involved in. Kids grown up, so they felt it was time to get it all settled.

That alone is worth the quiet.

Anyone checked the temperature in Hades lately?

(Said with the deepest respect and affection for MM...)

NGU.

**snicker** Since MM is quiet, then, yeah, you're probably right. ;)

Looking for fraud and filming it makes you wonder?

The silence speaks volumes.

Until I learn otherwise, I'm hanging in there.

to the FBI. I surely hope so!

Where can I get info about this? Someone went to the FBI?

It ain't over yet.
No real solid information.

Notice though how there are no talking heads, and no real charges are hitting mainstream media.

When and if it comes we will all know quickly. I surmise they are still gathering evidence.

The Kerry campaign is using the same denial tactics Bush used with Swift boat liars.

The provisional ballots are being counted. That is by law, and John Kerry stated that when he spoke to the nation after the media declared Bush to be the winner. If Ohio is like most states, there will be both Republican and Democratic witnesses as the provisional ballots are counted. There may also be attorneys from both sides keeping watch over the counting process.

Here is a possibility of what may happen, according to www.dailykos.com: While the odds that Kerry will get a large enough margin of the provisional ballot votes to win are very slim, there is a decent chance that he will get enough to pull him within the margin within which a recount can be requested.

Now get this: John Kerry is NOT the only person who can request a recount!!! In Ohio, a recount can be requested by the candidate, by the state electors for the candidate or by the voters!! There seemed to be some question about what type of voter action would need to be filed, according to the piece that I read, but the electoral college representatives are some of the most stalwart party activists in the state. There is an elector elected by other party activists from each Congressional district, plus two, which means that you need to be pretty well regarded in party circles to be elected by your peers for this honor. It should be noted that the state elections are actually about electing electors for a candidate rather than directly electing the candidate, so the state's members of the electoral college would be the appropriate party to contest the election.

If there is a recount, then Pandora's Box could be opened as we examine the various ways that votes could not be counted. For Opti-Scan cards, surely we would know now to examine the overvotes to see if voters voted for the same person twice using the write-in area plus the ballot bubble. We could also take a real close look at how Diebold computers centrally calculate the vote totals and decide whether or not the calculation machinery had been tampered with.

It may seem far-fetched for now, but remember that the votes have not yet all been counted. This may or may not happen, but it is still out there as a possibility.

esp. if they are not emotionally-based--& i've calmed down a lot since tuesday--and this whole election seems very unfinished, more 2nd act than 3rd act-closing-scene. yes. the silence is deafening, and i'm okay with that: silence is more resonant and meaningful than chatter oftentimes. . .is no news good news? maybe.

I had my meltdown on the 3rd, now I'm back to cautious optimism. Okay, maybe not so 'cautious', really. ;)

It's only a month until the Electoral College meets. I can wait another month.

discussing this and wondering about it on the way home from our war protest today.

I'm still going out every Friday and I'll be out there until they bring our guys home and stop the kill of innocent people.

i would hate to be gumming up the process, if indeed justice is forthcoming from the silence. at any rate, i am so relieved that others are feeling something good could be developing.
thank you, my friends

Who'd believe our wacky coincidence theories??

NGU.

unbelievable mess.

Radical acceptance: we lost

...and then promptly plops his duff in the Barcalounger. Makes a lotta sense.

NGU.

My turning moment came when I tried to explain it to my boys when they came home from school. When I actually said the words out loud, I realized just how much the idea didn't make any sense. At all. I still had to turn it over and over in my mind to accept the possibility, but the more I thought about it, the less sense it made, so...

I'm here. And I'm still helping to watch Senator Kerry's back. :toast:

NGU.

This time radical truth: we got cheated and defrauded. We didn't lose, Kerry didn't lose, the Bush Cabal stole this one too.

I believe this election is being challenged and I don't believe Kerry and Edwards are backing down. Right now, our election is a volatile situation for us internationally. If we publicly show uncertainty in our election results, Afghanistan will begin to question their election results and the Iraqi people will begin to question their election. Furthermore, showing weakness and disorganization by dragging out an election scandal publicly will increase the likeliness of a terrorist attack occuring here or abroad. Iraqi insurgents could see the disorganization in our leadership over here and see it as an opportunity to launch an assault on our troops.

We can't make the challenge to this election public until we have concrete proof that election fraud took place. This is a fragile situation because our leaders, democratic and republican alike, don't want us to look vulnerable.

and speaks to the morality of kerry-edwards, as well as their patience in the face of the current immoral, impatient administration. thank you again, many times over. your posting feels like truth to me.

You can't challenge elections secretly -- the press (despite their negligence and laziness) would be all over it.

The ONLY challenges right now are coming from Nader and the two other 3rd party candidates. And the Nader challenge is thanks purely to a couple of DUers and a few on the ground friends in NH:

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

National Ballot Integrity Project
http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

And, unfortunately, the poster's reasoning sounds like an excuse the Democrats will use to go away quietly- to preserve the integrity of "democracy" when they would be doing just the opposite. I fear this now.

F*ck.

challenge surfaces?

...but if they go away quietly and it DOESN'T play out, I'll be one of the loudest ones here.

NGU.

I understand it's about 80,000 dollars, and that since it was not proffered at the time of the challenge, that the challenge will not stand? Anybody know?

with the bush track record i dont trust for one second the election of hamid karzai, very convenient for the pipeline and his ex bosses unocal. or the honesty of any iraqi election.

puppet governments installed, reagan / poppy bush all over again.

are coming up with here, I did go to Diebold Lawsuits on Google last night, alot of info.

A friend inside the campaign says there's been a bit of a falling out between Kerry and Edwards. Edwards wanted to fight-at the very least he wanted 72 hours to counts the votes. Kerry wanted to concede immediately and did so, which left the Edwards camp fairly peeved. No indication that Kerry has any wish to challenge anything.

Yeah, I'm upset about it too!

However by law the votes have to be counted. Kerry said they are going to count votes.

There are some very vocal Democrats out there and they are noticably absent from the airwaves and cable.

Just from Edwards' body language, not from any inside info.

soemthing about especially elizabeth. maybe she was the one really going after the fight

There was criticism of Gore for using the Courts. Why didn't he challenge in the Senate. I can't remember who made that argument.

If I recall the speculation he had used up his entire emotional capital by that time. Can you imagine the turmoil if Kerry were to say something now that he will return?

The perception was that it was Gore who challenged in court. The facts are that Gore asked for recounts as prescribed in Florida law, it was the Republicans who actually challenged the procedures in court. And Bush v. Gore was brought by Bush, hence the fact that Bush is listed first in the suit.

But perception is reality, and I think that is why Kerry did not challenge the vote count. There was also the issue of there appearing to be a larger margin of victory then there were still uncounted ballots. That could change, however, if the provisional ballots (see my post above) reveal that the number of votes between the two candidates is actually small enough to merit a closer inspection (recount) of the vote totals. Also, a recount can be requested by parties other than the candidate. A grassroots recount request would be better than having the candidate do it.

www.blackboxvoting.org. They're investigating voter fraud. This is very important work and Bev's org is well known around here.

Keep the faith!

According to a piece I read at www.dailykos.com, a recount can be requested under Ohio state law by Ohio's electoral college electors or by the voters, as well as by the candidate. So the state law would seem to protect the voters' interests in the outcome of the election, quite contrary to the USSC's Bush v. Gore decision which referred to the "irreparable harm" which might be caused to Bush if the votes were actually counted.

Also, note that there is no direct election of the president in the electoral college system. Therefore voters are actually voting for the set of electors (Democratic or Republican) which they wish to represent them.

So a grassroots voter request for recount and the other myriad challenges needs to be made with little or no contact from the Kerry campaign. That is taking a real slim chance. Talk about jousting windmills.

It is truly sad we have degenerated to this level. Some people here seem to think the pendulum will swing back to Democrats in time. I do not think so.

You hit the nail on the head with perception being reality, we are faced with neocons who are now attacking the "reality based world".
This type of rhetoric reminds me of the worst kind of political jargon from the Communist commissars.

Please folks this is not just another election. The Republicans were mad at Kennedy, Carter, and Clinton. I remember railing against Nixon,(Ford was irrelevant), Reagan, and Bush I. ** is truly frightening, if you could get them to admit it I am sure he scares many Republicans

I, on the other hand, am planning on pushing the frickin pendulum back. If you're not up to it, then so be it.

NGU.

I do not think a grassroots movement complaining to some vague authority contesting this election will move anything.

Thanks Mr. Orwell.

NGU.

talking about the spectre of the 2000 nightmare in the courts?

They were all discussing whether Kerry might make some challenge to the results, or just challenge to have all the votes counted. Will made it seem as if the "spectre" was created by the Dems, making a veiled appeal for them not to do it again, or for the public not to support any such attempt. Anyone who was paying attention in 2000 knew that the nightmare was created by the court-shy repukes.

It was simply nauseating.

if the Bushies get away with ANOTHER stolen election? Can you imagine the loss of democracy in the U.S. forever, thanks to Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia and the fascists and Christian Reconstructionists who run these companies?

Get real. As someone notorious for his rhetoric once said (Rumsferatu): "Democracy is messy." If we don't step up to the plate (we = whatever Dems and other people of conscience are aware of this problem) and DEMAND that these machines be audited and the votes be counted and RECOUNTED -- ALL of them (esp. in key states, but elsewhere too), and that proper protections for voting be put into place (best of all, throw out the machines entirely), YOU and yours can kiss your democracy goodbye right now, for it will be forever lost, a mere memory, in the land once known as the Land of the Free.

And that ain't no hyperbole. The stakes are exactly that severe, precisely that dire.

You don't want a little turmoil? Not to worry. You won't see all that much in the fascist dictatorship currently gaining steam.

I am at a complete loss as to where our leadership is. Why aren't they standing up. All they have to say is March on Washington and I will be there. We can't let them steal our country with a struggle.

not whether we are willing to do our part in exposing the truth--we have more than enough energy for that--but the question is "what to do"" and for that we turn to the democratic party leadership.

...and I think it will obviate limpdick's assertion of a "mandate" but I don't think the outcome is gonna change--BushCo made sure that enough votes cannot be counted.

The sick thing is, a lot of kids are dying right now in Fallujah, our children's blood for the fuel in Ah-nuld's SUV.

Sometimes you have to lose to win. We'll just have to teach those fools in Red America the real meaning of morality--it ain't sitting in church listening to an overweight asshole with a rolex, a huge bank account, fistfulls of cash and a shitload of hairspray telling people what they CANNOT do. Real morality is helping the poor, the sick, the weak, and then there's that little ditty "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

And then, in 2006, we'll take over the House and the Senate. It ain't too late to chimpeach. We've got friends on the inside, believe it or not. And they will feed the lamestream media, who are finally waking up to their horrific role in this farce. They are too late, but maybe they'll feel a few twinges of guilt.

Funny, Tony Blair is coming for a visit. The weecowboy intends to ask HIM to do the heavy lifting in support of the "Kerry Plan" to involve other nations in the Iraq mess. Can't wait to see how that shit plays out...