Don't you guys understand?

Nader calling for recount, now Cobb, other people screaming so loudly it will be hard for the media to ignore EVERYONE much longer. Kerry doesn't have to fight right now, and really he can't, because if he does it will look like sour grapes and no one will take him seriously. Once evidence of fraud comes to light, he can swing what we like to call TEH BANHAMMER.

Have faith. I do, because I've believed in Kerry since before the primaries when nobody thought he had a chance.

i don't know how helpful the socialists would be, but i guess it doesnt hurt

omg ur B& dood!!!!111

gtfo of da WH!!1!


Of course, the media could just choose to ignore these guys. If they've REALLY sold out, that is.

there could have been fraud. There was an article here that suggested that he didn't think it was probable. Sorry no link but it was on the front page it might still be there. Once we start getting the evidence out there, maybe he'll jump on the bandwagon.

problems with voting machines and likelihood of fraud, and Kerry immediately went into "conspiracy theory ignore" mode. I know exactly the mode the guy meant, because I've personally seen Kerry go into it before. He kind of lifts his chin and looks down at you over his nose, usually quite subtle but obvious when you know what to look for.

when it came up with him.

was the occassion? What was the topic?

Care to give any details or is this another of your ambigous posts designed to try and stir stuff up between Democrats?

that had him looking "down at you over his nose".?

I think you're full of crap and making shit up.

And if you know me, I'm one of the biggest Kerry supporters we have here, and have been since before the primary. Don't jump to conclusions, my experience can be verified by more than 1 member of DU, as many people have seen this happen.

He had the DU home page article on "The election was rigged"

Edit to add: That might have been a reflection of Kerry's opinion of Miller, not of the election fraud possibility.

Let's get the Libertarians challenging some results too. Come on, Badnarak...throw your weight into this.

..."goofy conspiracy theory" too when he was first presented with it. But now he always tries to mention voter verified ballot rcpts...

on voter verified receipts who thought it was a conspiracy theory. If you guys are holding out hope for our leaders to make sure this gets looked into, I think you're in for a long long wait.

...because that is exactly what they are going to do, just like they have been ignoring it for 4 yrs now, despite plenty of evidence that has come to light in the past.

.

who said Kerry wimped out will say then, eh? I, too, believed in him from the very start and contributed to him alone, even when it was fashionable to count him out. And I haven't stopped. DUers who question his courage IMO are no better than the rethugs they say they despise.

Professor 2

Expecting the person you supported with everything you had to actually step up and "get your back" when your back needs getting are not "no better than the rethugs they say they despise" They are simply disillusioned supporters who are figuring out that their candidate is not going to fight for them like he said he would.

but there have been a lot of over the top comments on this subject, many of them almost as vile as rethug attacks. Yes, they are disillusioned, but some things said were rather startling. Thanks for your insight.

Professor 2

hmmmmmmmm, you don't think any would be posting here, do you? They wouldn't wan't to throw bombs into the DU while we're down and depressed, would they? No, I cannot believe any of these "Kerry's sold us out" posts would be generated by anyone other than well meaning, angry Democrats.

:-)

Thanks for some sanity! I was beginning to think even DU was going Orwellian on me. Had a pissing contest with someone on another thread who said that Kerry was a traitor and that "everyone in his family" served, yadayadayada. No response when I asked him "Including you?"
You are right, probably another gloating freeper. Thanks, dude.
Love the pic! :-)

Professor 2

I supported Kerry giving all I could give and I got my parents on board when they weren't happy with him because he voted for the IWR . Kerry said he would fight, said he had our backs. I stayed up on election night and heard Edwards say that he and Kerry would make sure all the votes were counted. And so I went to bed with hope. I woke the next morning still filled with hope. The next thing I hear is that Kerry called the evil monster and conceded! I was sick at heart and so disappointed!

If he does come out and fight it, this "tough-guy" will admit he was wrong about Kerry, and I will say that I shouldn't have lost faith in the guy so quickly.

If he doesn't... what will the true-believers will do?

I'm a long-time Kerry admirer. He's smart and has integrity. If there's a chance to make things right, he will, but there was no way he was going to pursue a scorched earth policy.

I think he's playing this exactly right. The candidate himself can't be seen as pursuing the matter out of political expediency.

Kerry has betrayed us. Why is Ralph the one now fighting for our votes that we so foolishly entrusted to the DNC?

Mr or Ms 13 posts

The question is, will we betray ourselves, each other and future generations?

If we wait for some rich powerful person to save us, we have fitted ourselves with the ball and chain and don't deserve freedom.

"I Believe that no people ever yet groaned under the heavy yoke of slavery, but when they deserv'd it. This may be called a severe censure upon by far the greatest part of the nations in the world who are involv'd in the misery of servitude: But however they may be thought by some to deserve commiseration, the censure is just. The truth is, All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they ought."

"Is it possible that millions could be enslaved by a few, which is a notorious fact, if all possessed the independent spirit of Brutus, who to his immortal honor, expelled the proud Tyrant of Rome, and his "royal and rebellious race?" If therefore a people will not be free; if they have not virtue enough to maintain their liberty against a presumptuous invader, they deserve no pity, and are to be treated with contempt and ignominy."

"Oppression stalk'd at large and pour'd abroad
Her unrelenting Train; Informers - Spies -
Hateful Projectors of aggrieving Schemes
To sell the starving many to the few,
And drain a thousand Ways th' exhausted Land...
And on the venal Bench
Instead of Justice, Party held the Scale,
And Violence the Sword."

quotes from Sam Adams

may his words reach the ears of the people again

"Kerry has betrayed us"

"Fighting for our votes"

Firstly, there's been a lot of talk about e-vote fraud on this board, as well as many other places. If there was, in fact, a system implemented to hack democratic votes and turn them red - as an emerging avalanche of evidence is suggesting -, it would not be in Kerry's best interest to attack the subject until he's equipped for the job. That means waiting until irrefutable evidence of fraWd emerges.

Secondly, nobody's fighting for democratic votes. We're fighting for fair elections which would undoubtedly show major popular support for Kerry and major popular condemnation of Bush, just as the exit-polls suggested.

I like the idea, and am hoping this is a chess game.

I've got a fire over here, can you come over and piss on it? You seem to have a lot to go around...

Good one! :P

There are no real newscasters left. All we have is AirAmerica and the RMDT likes to ignore it even exists.

transpired this time as well...

www.unprecedented.org

But I have to admit I don't believe him. I think he gave up on us and I'm mad as hell. :(

Let Nader, Cobb, and Badnarik handle it. They'll be just as effective. We'll back them up behind-the-scenes, just as we're doing now.

Why do democrats always worry about stuff like that? If things were reversed bush would say "go ahead and call it sour grapes and me a sore loser. Damn right i'm a sore loser and proud of it. I was robbed and i'm gonna fight."

.

Kerry and election fraud are two separate issues. VBerifying the integrity of the elections is for us, and for the country, not for Kerry.

I don't even mention Kerry when I talk about this, because it doesn't matter who the candidate was, the victim in this crime is the American people. What is at stake is the democracy, not Kerry or the Democratic party.

We don't have a democracy if our votes are not counted accurately.

He may have conceded and stepped out of the spotlight so that it would not be focused on him. If so, he is one of the great partiots of all time.

We need leadership. This is not just politics as usual, our democracy is at stake. Time for real leaders to step up to the plate.

Step forward. Yes we need leaders. All of the leaders you will ever need are right here, if we will but step forward.

Is it that you need a rich leader? One who is connected? Approved by the media? Famous? Attractive? Employed by the DNC?

Indeed, it may be a tactical maneuver. The pundits cannot spend their time tabloidizing a non-existent "sour grapes" mentality from the Kerry camp because, on the surface, it looks as though Kerry is being a good sport about an honest loss.

Now the media are focusing on what another four years of the Bush fallacy will bring to America; pondering about Bush's "mandate"; discussing the failures of the democratic party; drawing maps of how "red" America will be after four more years of theocracy and liberal suppression.

The fact that they are ignoring this story - even the possibility of fraud - as it develops shows the same lack of journalistic integrity that has brought the scorn of thinking America upon them. I have a feeling that, if people aren't boycotting FOX and CNN now, they'll be more than ready to do so once this story breaks and it's spun to republican favor.

Absolutely. Our democracy is being threatened by individuals who implement manipulable voting techniques for their own benefit, and by those who choose to turn a deaf ear to the subject.

If Bush turns out to be the "fair-and-square" winner of this election once we extirpate Diebold fraud from the equation, I'll be more than willing to then begin pointing my fingers at the sub-par performance of Democratic leadership.

Until then, every time I shake my Magic 8-ball, it's going to read, "All signs point to fraud."

I haven't watched the news since the election. Has ANY of this been reported?

http://www.votecobb.org/news1/document.2004-11-05.8107345760

As to whether it's been reported, I'd say no, not really. But I'm overseas and don't see much US media outside of the web.

COBB CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION OF VOTING IRREGULARITIES

- News Release 11/5 - Green Party 2004 presidential candidate David Cobb today called for a thorough investigation of reports of voting fraud, suppression and disenfranchisement.

“It’s Florida all over again. Except this time, it’s Ohio where the person responsible for counting votes is chair of the state Bush campaign. Once again there are widespread reports of intimidation, mis-marked ballots and the targeted disenfranchisement of African American voters. It’s very possible the election has been stolen for the second time in a row and again the Democrats have conceded rather than standing up for the right to vote and the right for people’s votes to count,” said Cobb

Seven counties in Ohio used electronic voting machines which didn’t produce paper trails, meaning that fraud would be difficult if not impossible to detect. A number of these counties’ voting machines were provided by Diebold, Inc., whose CEO is Walden W. O'Dell, a major contributor to the Bush campaign who promised, much like JEB Bush did with Florida in 2000, to deliver Ohio to President Bush. No Republican has ever been elected president without winning Ohio.

“There were definitely problems with the vote count in Ohio. For example, I got a call from one reporter at the Ohio statehouse on Election Night who told me the Secretary of State was reporting that Cobb had 45,000 write in votes in Ohio, which was way off the mark. Just the fact that they can count votes without any paper trail whatsoever is truly terrifying. How are we going to know whether the election was valid or not? Why did the exit polls not match the vote? We deserve answers to these questions. Once again, the legitimacy of the entire Bush administration is in doubt,” said Cobb-LaMarche Media Director Blair Bobier.

“Pure and simple: there needs to be an investigation,” said Cobb.


“Pure and simple: there needs to be an investigation”


http://www.votecobb.org/news1/document.2004-11-05.8107345760

"Once again, the legitimacy of the entire Bush administration is in doubt"