I fear we are becoming freepers

All this talk about boycotting that real estate agent's place of business just because she disagrees with you is very freeperish. What is more disturbing is the talk about trying to get her fired. She sent in a LTTE - something many of us have done. She's not using the company to spread her message. There's no evidence of that.

There are other things I've noticed as well on the board lately.

Let's not be freepers. Please.

so neither should we.

I do hope you're being sarcastic, becaus the LTTE was exactly a case of them throwing their weight around now that they have the upper hand. And that's hardly been the only one.
You know the old saying-there's only one thing worse than a sore loser, and that's a sore winner. Tell me they're not being sore winners.

in a LTTE.. She submitted her picture...and it was a BIG one (see the enlarge feature).. She did not have to mention her line of work, but the WANTED to, knowing that "some people" would go Google her and hire her (a Godly woman)...

She DID it for publicity as much as for effect..:eyes:

Not the realtor. Submit a "reader's opinion" piece to your paper and they will ask for your occupation and location if they choose to print it. She could have opted for anonymity, but apparently she didn't think through that internet nutcases would attack her personally.

The OP of the original thread was the one who added her profile from her company website. That's an invasion of privacy, and stalking IMO.

I like intellectual discourse, not constant swearing, I KNOW YOU'RE ANGRY, we don't need to read GD and F this and F that every other sentence. I almost think some of the DU community needs to take a break like Kerry and avoid the boards for a week to collect themselves. We're all very very upset, and frankly, it is disheartening what is going on, but we cannot fall pray to anger, we must keep our collective thought and makes cases with contact we have with the media, friends, and on the internet.

We Will prevail, it'll just take time. :) :) :) :) :)

They would never try to punish us or take away rights when in power. :eyes:

and it ain't pretty.

not saying I do not understand the frustration level.

when they fire her, we will do business with them again. The goal is not to punish the company forever, only to make them right a wrong, in this case, her employment.

we have become freepers....

i thought that is what we were about. i thought that is what was making us angry, we are being told we cannot have a different opinion

Fuck her

Expressing her opinion in a letter to the editor? Yikes! How many of us should fear for our jobs. What the hell were you voting for if it wasn't to prevent the kind of crap you're advocating?

a woman was fired in Georgia for a Kerry bumper sticker, fire her for Oral Right-wing Diarrhea.

two wrongs don't make a right. Let the lady in Alabama sue her employers for wrongful dismissal. That still isn't valid grounds for persuing the termination of the realtor.

Lets just become everything we hate and become possessed by the same demon that has destroyed everything remotely decent in the republican party.

Freepers are members of the conservative nutjob website freerepublic.com.

From a wider perspective, we use Freeper here whenever describing anyone with a ridiculously conservative point of view. Hope this helps.

Free-market advocates. Nickname for readers of the free-market Web site, www.FreeRepublic.com.

Also spelled Freeper.

There are associated negative connotations to being a freeper (like being greedy, corporate-loving, fascist, etc.)

They are a disease of democracy. We are the cure.

on htis woman. who cares about her. i hear all this talk in boycotting red states ect.........my husband owns a business in a red state, he is working his ass off to put food on the table for me and the kids. just not comfortable with all this

Are we supposed to take comfort in the fact that we are "nice" I would rather win. Sheesh, the weenies could almost make me reregister! Except that I hate the repukes!

They've been in relentless attack mode for 25 years. It's all they've got, and it's working for them.

So, by what logic would you conclude that attacking a gloating pinhead conservative would be a negative for the progressives?
The Professor

I wouldn't boycott someone just because they were a Republican or live in a red state. I fight for everyone to be able to express their opinion.

On the other hand, I feel comfortable directing my money elsewhere, in terms of large corporations who donated huge sums of money to 527's that were against my interests or to the Bush campaign. And, like Wal-mart, really attempt to tell me what I can or can't read (Alice Walton seems to have influence on the books in Wal-mart).

Are we going to boycott a business just cuz they employee pubs? I know the talk of a boycott isn't going anywhere, but some are talking about getting her fired! That is screwed up.

just an opinion! And I will boycott people who promote death, and I live in a red state!

DU has become Free Republic with avatars. Stupidity now reins supreme.

WTF! OMG!

Is being a realtor who thinks that voicing her political opinions in such a hateful manor ("Your ideals were rejected...") when she's trying to drum up business in a very public and cut throat industry. What is stupid is thinking that winning an election by a narrow margin means the country has rejected a set of ideals. She is a moron. I would not use her as a realtor, and I would drop her if I'd selected her. I would no longer trust her instincts as a business person, aside from thinking she was a complete idiot. If I were a realtor, I would not expect my customers to keep me if I insulted them in such a hateful way, and I certainly wouldn't expect to attract more. Again, she is an idiot.

*claps*

If you hang a sign like that over your business be prepared to lose customers.

The more or less doubling of registrations in the last year has increased the rate at which things move on the boards. The increased pace has prompted posters to shorten their posts considerably, just to get a word in.

I remember when I would have to get a cup of coffee to just read three or four threads at DU. It seems that people, on average, spend less time on their posts. There are some excellent threads as well as the diamond in the rough of an outstanding post in an otherwise dull thread. On FR the latter phenomenon is also evident, just far, far less often. Let's face it, FR is like DU but its inverse: the high quality of discourse is watered-down by some inane posters; FR's inanity is on occasion interrupted by a sensible remark.

Oh, "reigns."

permanently stolen and are on our way to becoming a full blown one party fascist police state.

Please stop supporting the people that destroyed America.

Even if the vote counts were not crooked, Most people that voted for * were terribly mis-informed. (See PIPA report) We need to find a unified positive non-freeper way to lash out.

I think those in the area who are uncomfortable selecting her as an agent because of the opinions she expressed in public are well within their rights to seek another agent. I couldn't work with her knowing how she felt about me, but I see no reason to boycott the company or contact them about it. If she isn't representing the company than I wouldn't involve them.

There's a definite difference between rolling over and becoming unnecessarily rabid.

There is nothing 'freeperish' about them ....

Cesar Chavez would be appalled to know he was a freeper ....

She wrote the article the way SHE wanted, it could have discussed how we should all come together, working for a unified country, but no, she decided to antagonize and insult. That, combined with the probable stolen election, giving victory to a man that lied us into a war and did not raise a finger to stop 9/11, and who is, judging from all outward appearances, trying to destroy our economy and environment, is what is wrong! I am sorry if I offend you, but your sympathy for her is not contagious.

People are angry after Nov 2nd. It's an understandable reaction, even if you don't agree with it. Now, all of the calls to dump core issues in order to "compromise"? That is more upsetting.

that indicates what she does for a living. She could have signed it simply "Regina Gulick" and been done with it, or used a pseudonym and not included a picture of herself, but she didn't. She identified herself as a "real estate agent," which, had I discovered this op ed on my own, would make me curious as to who her employer is and wonder if they share her political views.

I'm sorry but I feel like the time is over to talk and try to work with these people. They haven't shown us that respect since they sought to bring Clinton down back in '98 and have shown no compunction about knocking us down or repeatedly kicking us while we're down. The election hasn't even been over a week and look how fast this administration had the military go into Fallujah, how fast they trotted out their plans for a new "conservative America", which includes privatizing what's left of our social safety net, and now they're talking about reviving the gay marriage amendment to the Constitution. The neocons and their followers are certainly fascists, make no mistake about it. And you don't negotiate with fascists, you fight them.

Fuck the political correctness...SOME of us are mad as hell and we are not taking this shit anymore.
:grr:

I've prided myself on being one of the more level-headed DUers, but this mess we are referring to as an election has flipped a switch. I'm angry... hell, I'm down right pissed off. (And Jonesing for a ciggy, but that's a whole other topic.)

We've got trolls (I hope) running around saying we need to 'give in' on the abortion issue. Other trolls telling us to sell out the gays and lesbians. Basically we have all types of folks running around like chicken with their heads cut off, trying to figure out a way to 'fix' something that I'm not convinced is 'broke.'

I want someone, somewhere to demand a recount (by hand) of those Florida counties in question. I want someone to be on trial for manipulating the voter turn-out in Ohio. This election -- this whole freaking thing -- stinks to high heaven. I can't be the only person smelling it.

A couple of nights ago a few of us on DU really looked into that issue. We found that those counties in question went for Bush in 2000 and most went for Dole in 1996 (perot factor). It's the dixiecrat thing.

There are a lot of theories and misinformation being passed off as absolute fact on DU these days. That is also freeperish.

If that's the case then they should do a hand recount of those 29 counties in question.

Right, rewarding a "president" for starting an illegal war is a simple "disagreement"...

RWers do it all the time. LWers do it all the time. It is a time tested method of expressing oneself. If you want to spout off your self righteous gloating on the opinion page, don't expect the people you are mocking to come flocking to your business. I have no problem with wingnuts boycotting to make the changes. They don't get much done doing this (they know that fixing ballot boxes is more effective) but if they want to do it, more power to them. Boycotting Sinclair was the right thing to do, and so was the "Stop Dr. Laura" campaign and the campaign to get ABC to air Ellen DeGeneris' coming out episode. Your little tactic of calling people "freepers" for boycotting this particular person isn't going to work.

Republican after the last 4 years is either an ignorant fool, a natural moron, or a proud fascist. I consider them all to be reprehensible.

That woman is a perfect example. Her heroic party has won all branches of government yet again, and what is her response? She kicks sand in your face. She doesn't just "disagree" with you. She hates you. She knows that you're in pain and so she took the opportunity to twist the knife.

I couldn't care less what a person like that thinks of me, and if I can cause them grief, I will.

The left needs to get a little nasty, if you ask me. The whole "nice" thing clearly isn't working.

That's not healthy. Look, I'm pissed too. But attacking some lone real estate agent in Atlanta accomplishes nothing. Take your anger and do something useful with it. Join the ACLU, environmental groups and do some real work to stop the Bushies....

nothing wrong with spite.

I'm perfectly happy to boycott anyone who can't sell me a service without a heaping side of repellent propaganda.


you can keep giving them your money if you want to, but not me. And i will let anyone who needs to know know.


i'm tired of this crap.

why these freeper types don't just enjoy their victory and STFU instead of continually baiting our side. :wtf: :shrug: I think they must not be as happy as they pretend. If kerry had won I would've had maybe a day or two of gloating but would've been so estatic I would have no more thoughts of the other side.

that's why they always feel besieged and paranoid.

We are in general an informed group. Would you use a known republican for a real estate transaction? I would not. I support Dems and Democratic businesses when I can. I don't shop at Walmart, I shop at Costco. That doesn't make me a freeper. I speak as much with my money as I do with my words.

In fact, I'm thinking of writing on every bill I spend, "Democrat's Money". I'd like the businesses I frequent to know who their customers are. If they choose to be partisans, then they will not get my money. I don't give any money to the United Way. That doesn't make me a freeper either. They made a partisan choice. Their choice was not my side. They lose.

Vote with your money. You will be heard.

was the talk of punishing the business (there may be Dems there, and besides are we going to say that no business can employ a Bush voter?)...

also the talk about getting her fired was over line.

She insulted a large part of their customer base. She made herself a liability. Do you think I would be free to do that to my employer? No way. I would be canned too and rightfully. How about you? Could you insult even one customer where you work without consequences?

and besides are we going to say that no business can employ a Bush voter?

I'm not sure what you are saying. I've read almost every post in this thread and haven't seen anyone say this, except you. I certainly did not say it. A business that funds repukes will not get my money. End of story. It's mine and I will spend it in the manner I see fit. I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money. So what's this 'we' crap? I'm an individual who makes up my own mind. Truthfully the only one who sounds freeperish is you. Feel free to just make accusations to deflect from an argument, it says something about you.

Businesses that hire repukes, I have no problem with unless and until that employee starts insulting my values and beliefs and takes a patronizing tone with me. You better believe I will report that to management, everyone I know and everyone on DU.

I would not return to that business unless and until that person is fired. End of story. It's the employer's choice. Which is more valuable, the employee or me as a customer? It's the business' decision.

people are talking about punishing a business because their employee has chosen a public venue to INSULT and OFFEND a large part of their customer base.


would you be feeling so bad, if that real estate agent sent a LTTE stating she fully supported redlining and the fleecing of minority homebuyers? That she believed in segregated neighborhoods? or any other such insnaity?


i for one would not support her or coldwell banker, and i would still be asking for her head.

If a waitress got fired for wearing a Kerry/Edwards button, we'd be all over it.

How is it any different if this real estate agent gets fired?

She's entitled to her stupid opinion.

Frankly it appears to me she doesn't want to do business with liberals.... I say give her her wish..but if she puts an inflammatory opinion in the paper and uses her professional status then certainly she is inviting a boycott of her wares.

*claps*

They simply listed her occupation. That's standard.

They didn't say who she worked for. Someone dug that up, right?

I agree that no liberal should do business with this woman. None of us should buy anything she's got listed. No of us should give her a listing.

But I disagree with the idea that she should be FIRED because she expressed a disagreeable opinion.

The original thread and its spinoffs contain many responses that would look right at home on a rightwing site.

there was a thread here last month i think, started by Roland99 about a guy working at Target that was asked to take his K/E button off his uniform.


the majority of people stated that the company was in the right.

There is a big difference betweena company asking you to remove buttons during work and a company firing you for your outside of work expression of your ideas.

If democrat was fired for thier outside beliefs or statements, DU would be up in arms.

i'm just refuting the claim that we would be up in arms.

The original analogy was a waitress who got FIRED for wearing a K.E. Button.

Your example is one particular way in which that could happen. There are other ways, fitting more with the nature of this thread, that would cause a very different reaction from DU'rs.

will fix the problem, without stooping to their level?

to shreds. We don't want to look like freepers! (who would we look like freepers to again?)

Look standing up for yourself with strong talk and even boycotts are perfectly legal and TIME HONORED progressive techniques. I know from their own mouths that the thing Corporate warlords hate above all is protestors and especially sign carriers outside their offices. Their bullying shrinks down to the size of Shrub's actual manhood when you call them on their BS.

It's ok to be confrontational. We must be prepared to do that more. I know we're peaceniks and it's hard to do. But we must. Sure it's rude. Would you be rude in order to save the Constitution? I would!

At least for me. It's the way she stated them. Honestly, I couldn't give two shits what political affiliation my real estate agent is, or how they voted. Just sell my damn house. But, if he/she is going to publicly spout a hateful screed, then I'll think twice about giving him or her my business.

noticed we, being polite, have not.?

voice, people, email pressure.

Whatever it takes.

They've taught us

We must play nice but they never will + never do
We cant openly oppose there views because um there um wrong.
so we have to find a middle ground with faith based views. ?

Aren't we supposed to be the party of opposition because there certainly opposing us. I'm sorry but Dem's need to fight back and fight hard for every inch of blue state there is and every inch of blue in red states there are. So Shout it out people were not going away givingan inch or relenting any more ground on our issues, ideas, freedoms or money to these bastards that wrap them selfs up in morality and then role around in oil,blood there faith based ideas that tell us were wrong no matter what FACTS we bring to the table. They will always view us as the enemy and we should act in the same manner to them.

This thread I started last weekend seems appropriate here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2624429

Period.


Besides, we've got the Buddy Christ.

a business or business person if I choose. That's not freeperish. That's my personal preference and choice. Why not give the money to a Democrat? Especially given the number of real estate agents competing for our business. It's not like the woman is the only person who can perform a delicate surgery. She sells property. If she's proud of her views, fine. I'm proud of mine. And since I have a choice, I'll use it. And someone else will get the commision.
Afterall, these are the people trying to clenase our educational institutions of anyone expressing progressive views.
Let's quit being such wimpy sponges. Show some backbone.

She sent in a LTTE (the fucking nerve) expressing her political opinion (she should be watched closely) that we disagree with (only the "correct" opinions are allowed from now on) using her own name (she asked for it).

Of course, any family members of yours similarly unenlightened will also wind up on the street, sorry. There is no room for mercy in our glorious jihad to free America, that is how we will guarantee success!

Viva la Revolution!

/disgust

They have declared WAR on our democracy....WAKE THE FUCK UP!

YOU can go hold that stupid bitch's hand if you want.
Me? I wouldn't piss on her if her hair were on fire.

exactly. These people are ruining our country and we're supposed to help them. I'm not going to play nice. Too much is at stake.

Every week I go out for happy hour to a bar owned by a big republican. Most of the folks who go to this bar are blue collar types who also when they vote, vote republican. They're mostly tradesmen and union types. I happen to live in a blue state.

I also believe, that I have a very good influence on my drinking buddies. I don't disrespect them, and they put up with all of my Green hued whackiness.
I really don't go in for this boycott bullshit. I do an honest days work, and I know that my clients pay me without asking for whom I'm voting.

:eyes:

Part of me agrees with you, but the time to make nicey-nice has passed. Rolling over and saying, "Please don't hurt me," is not going to get their attention.

The Civil Rights movement happened because people put their bodies on the line. They stared into the eyes of the beast and didn't blink.

But we are NOT freepers.

I've never seen you before.

"There are other things I've noticed as well on the board lately." - What do you mean by that?

how could you have missed them? :)
I didn't understand the "We" either. I think that tool deserves everything coming her way.

If a private citizen sends a letter without their business info, then fine.

If someone simply is happy Bush won, then fine.

Her opinions were inflammatory and were designed to get a reaction.

The way I see it, one should always be careful for what they ask for.

She had the option of not putting her employer's name in the letter.

There's nothing freeperish about giving people what they want. A reaction.

She had an OP-ED piece printed. Which means that she had a formal arrangment with the AJC, and was told to provide a specific amount of copy.

She had every opportunity to consider whether she should simply ID herself as a real estate agent in Metro Atlanta, or drag her employer into it. She chose the latter.

I for one am inspired by reaction to it here at DU.

BTW, if you want to get really pissed off at an Atlantan, check out the work of the resident AJC wingnut, Jim Wooten. What a dick.

I don't think she put her employer's name in the letter or OP-ED piece.

What I saw was just her occupation listed. Someone else linked her to her employer.

It isn't as though her occupation ads any credibility to the topic.

freeps poorly try to co-opt it though



Suffragist leader Alice Paul authored the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) to remedy women's exclusion from the 14th Amendment. Introduced in 1923, the ERA was buried in Congress for nearly 50 years. In the late 1960s, the "second wave" of feminist activists took up Alice Paul's cause. After getting the ERA voted out of Congress, we held marches, organized boycotts, lobbied and worked on election campaigns to try to get it passed by the necessary three-fourths of the states. When an arbitrary time limit expired in 1982, the ERA was just three states short of the 38 required for ratification.

more...
http://flnow.org/ERA.htm

http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/fraud04/fraud04.mp3

psst... pass the word ;->

"the only think new in this world is the history you don't know" - h. truman

After all the segregationists and racists in the south were only expressing their opinion! As Americans, we have a duty to stand up for what is right and not just roll over and accept it. Here's the difference between us and Freepers...Freepers advocate violence. They say "Let's bomb them...here are their addresses". We don't, or we shouldn't. Boycotts have always been a great way of protest. Yes we have the right to say whatever we want to say, but we must accept the consequences of what comes with it. That is why speaking the truth in the face of adversity is brave.
And please don't say "well the segregationists were different" because they weren't. There is still racism today and even more overtly homophobia.

he didn't boycott racists for their opions but for their actions. The realitor in question isn't doing anything to hurt anybody. She just wrote a letter to the editor. To compare a LTTE to the Jim Crow laws that Rev King fought is silly at best.

How about racial profiling when determining who should be allowed to vote? WHY should anyone support people who hate them?

You don't have to do business with that person, but by trying to get her fired for what is clearly speech protected by the 1st Amendment is censorship, pure and simple.

In fact, I don't think many on this board are arguing to get her fired. I don't agree with trying to get her fired at all, but boycotting is what is in question here. And there is nothing wrong with boycotting. Why should people give their business to someone that thinks that person is unfit to like their boots?

The original poster's first complaint was "boycotting her business because you don't agree with her". Damn right I will.

Ok, I wasn't refering to boycotting. I was refering to those who have been writing her employer trying to get her fired. Sorry for the confusion.

the site's getting freakin' sorry with the teeth gnashing and hysteria.

it's more like a junior high school cafeteria than ever before.

buckle up, it's gonna' be a rough 4 years and we now recognize that besides being face to face with yahoos, we stand shoulder to shoulders with many of them too.

What the hell? People have ALWAYS used boycotting to express their displeasure. Sorry, but I don't like racists, I don't like fascists and I don't like homophobes. Why should I or anyone give their business to someone that does? Guess what, I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh either.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Americans have gone completely down the toilet in terms of decency. The election was just a symptom of how ugly we really are.

Stephanie

I have no idea what was written - or what this is about. I would agree with the sentiment of your post. Yet, somehow without knowing the content of the controversy it seems hard to weigh-in.

I think this is it, though:

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/1104/08gop.html

while it is an arrogant letter, it is nowhere nearly as offensive as other things that I have read. She doesn't vilify or threaten - she acknowledges that both sides have morals (but that more agree with dubs morals.... okay that gags me, but given the apparent outcomes, it seems a not to awful sentiment to express... she isn't a journalist expressing opinion as fact so expressing her opinion seems legitimate...) and she demonstrates some basic ignorance on facts (or perhaps gullibility towards the rwing spin machine).

She wasn't steno sue threatening critics employment, she wasn't threatening democrats with violence or unemployment... all said - calls to retaliate - over this letter do seem rather over the top.

It is an opposing editorial piece, printed as such.

but my sentiments are the same. There have been longer items printed as opinion/editorials in my local paper. I tend to agree with them. Unless these cross a line (which I don't think this item does) I would find it an over reaction to take action against the individuals (eg getting them fired) based on their opinion - just happens that there is more local sentiment that agrees with my perspective than disagrees. Goose, gander sort of thing. If I think those folks locally should have the right to express (even in editorial form) themselves without fear of reprecussion, than I think this should be the case when I disagree with the message.

It would be different if this were the offensive item in the LA times from a rightwingnut radio host, or if it was a coulteresque item that threatens literally or inferentially those who disagree with the writer. Whether a letter or an editorial... this simply isn't terribly offensive - and certainly doesn't seem to warrant a nasty targetting campaign.

She puts her name AND her employer out there, she can expect to catch some of our breeze.

If it makes you feel any better, some months back I read an AJC op-ed piece written by an outfitter (I think he rented kayaks and canoes in the mountains of GA) expressing a liberal viewpoint, where he mentioned his business; sure enough, a couple days later, a LTTE was published by a reader who said he'd never patronize this liberal's business.

So it cuts both ways. Bottom line is, this chick was stupid to drag her employer into this. If she owned her own real estate firm, well, more power to her.

to battle it out on the editorial page - vs net harassment.

It wasn't all that. Just a few taunts, a bit of high-mindedness, and the usual ignorance. I don't see what the big whoop is either.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

This constant attempt to uncover secret "freepers". I had someone call me one last night. Some of the people on this board would have made great KGB agents in Stalinist Russia. Any disagreement and you're automatically a "freeper". That kind of fascist impulse is what I find very disturbing. Get a grip people.

I have been singled out numerous times for the most inane comments...

Sorry - I'm not very good at the "groupthink" thing...just not a bandwagon kind of guy...

if you say anything controversial, you must be a freeper ;)

We can clown her. Not very nice of us, but hey, she's a right wing imbecile who put herself out there. However, calling her boss, trying to get her fired from her "job" (2 listings? 1 a rental. Uhm, okay, I guess that counts as a job. Although if it wasn't for her husbands and mommy and daddy's welfare I doubt she would be such a conservative firebrand.), sending her emails- these sorts of things are just a little over the edge. So I guess I come down on the side of clowning, which really even that is not very nice and from a spiritual standpoint not right to do, but not on the side of getting her fired from her J-O-B.

clowning I get. Harassment, and net stalking type behavior... way over the top.

I understand the frustration, disappointment, anger, etc.; but it's not an excuse to become what you oppose.

Frankly, if Democrats want to become hate-mongers, I won't be with them. No hate, no bigotry, no narrow-mindedness; that's what we are supposed to be changing in our world, not becoming.

I'm not going to "fight," or "battle," or "go to war," because I don't believe that war solves anything. It kills, it maims, on both sides. It destroys the environment and infrastructure. And it feeds the anger, the determination to oppose, the never-ending series of battles for ascendancy.

I want change. Big change. How do I get it? I stand for what I believe in, first of all. I don't become what I'm trying to change, just so that I can "win." That's a hollow victory. To use the words of another, I'll "be the change I wish to see in the world." How?

I'll use my dollars and viewing time wisely. I don't watch tv news. At all, ever, for any reason. If more people joined me, and publicly announced their choice, ratings would plummet and we might get some action on media issues.

I do my best to spend my dollars in ways that don't support corporate America; and will take that effort to a new level the next 4 years, excising much more out of my life.

I'll support efforts to uphold our constitution, and free and fair elections.

I'll be the things I wish to see; respectful, civil, caring, compassionate, fair, honest, principled, a thinker, well-balanced, reflective, knowledgeable; that's what I hope people will see when they look at me, or remember when they think about me.

And I'll be a communicator. I'll communicate issues to draw people in, rather than draw people to battle. That's the big goal; one I haven't excelled at yet.

I'm not fighting TPTB; I'm communicating to my fellow citizens, and hoping that, without confronting them, they can hear, and think about, some of what I have to say.

I will pour my time, energy, dollars, and attention into supporting what I do believe in, rather than trying to go to war against what I don't. I'll see what I do believe in grow, and the battles diminish in that way.

Just my choice. I hope that DU will be at the forefront of such efforts; but if not, I'll let it go. I hope that the Democratic Party will be at the forefront; but if not, I'll let it go.

Boycotting is absolutely a good liberal tradition - but the boycotts need to be consistent with our core moral values.

My office got a call outing me because I worked publicly against one of the constitutional amendments banning my marriage.

My employers will stand by me, even though some of our clients are republicans, and even if they vocally demand my resignation. My employers would do the same for an employee who worked in favor of the constitutional amendment if folks from DU started calling. Both are good things, but not necessarily the norm for an employer.

What we employees do outside of the office is our own business, and we will not be punished in the workplace for expressing our political opinions on our own time. Although my letters to the editor (my own, and those I signed on behalf of my church) were to printed, had they been printed and someone took the time to search to find out where I worked, there would not have been any employment consequences.

However, if I were working against the constitutional amendment on company time, or lobbying company clients that were not also personal friends, or deliberately associating my personal political views with the company I expect that I would be asked to stop making that association (even though they agree with my position). That is also appropriate - this particular business needs to remain neutral since we have clients in a wide variety of political flavors.

Back to the Atlanta realtor - from this thread it appears that she deliberately brought her work in to the discussion (perhaps not by company name, but by providing enough information so that the company was easy to figure out).

Without violating my core principles, it is certainly consistent for me to bring to the employer's attention that her comments were offensive and not consistent with a business with which I want to spend my money. It would also be consistent to visit my local gay newspaper and select a realty company that is deliberately reaching out to my community. Also consistent with my core principles would be to not use that particular agent.

I cannot, however, make the leap to calling for a boycott of the business without confirming that the woman's actions were condoned by the employer. Neither can I make the leap to demanding that she be fired without expecting the same treatment for my outside political activity.

As angry and disappointed as I am about the recent election, I firmly believe that the means by which we win are the ends. If we cut off the targeted minorities in our midst because that is what it takes to win, if we adopt a pro-life position, if we adopt a pro-war position, if we advocate terminating employees for exercising political speech, and so on, when we win our own government will be exactly like the one about which we are so bitterly complaining and we will have lost despite being back in the White House, Senate, or House.

We can't be freepers but the lady who wrote the opinion piece can be? What's this world coming to??? :eyes:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/793252/posts

Should women pursue the Masters?: No, it's retro feminism Regina Gulick - For the Journal-Constitution Thursday, November 21, 2002

A Gen-X mother of two small sons, I find myself cheering for Hootie Johnson. The fight over women at Augusta National is not about access or women's rights. It's about outdated ideals in the minds of old-fashioned, liberal women.

This is a war women have already won, but a victory that last century's feminist leaders refuse to accept. I can't help but wonder whether they enjoy the fight with men so much that they make up these "battles" for the fun of it. ...

:shrug:

To win, often involves using as ugly tactics as those who use
them first. Frankly, i don't believe an LTTE should warrant such
sillyness. Leave the nasty cow alone, she's made her own nightmare
in the 45th healthiest state in the union.

I was imagining a class taught by Eminem to DU'ers on how to
verbally insult ad hominem the sort of freepers that always attack
us ad hominem. Here in a written forum, i just lay it out as
what it is... but in a verbal conflict, sometimes its appropos to
respond in kind... and i see no freeperishness about that at all.

In the film star wars, everyone, both heros and bad guys, committs
mass murder. People root for whomever the camera frame follows.

The best way to protect oneself in a demonstration (and, I'd assume, a forum like this) is to be the most vocal and rhetorically violent. The fascists figured out a long time ago that those people should be left in place--people don't get intimidated when they get taken out. Instead, beat the crap out of a few basically innocent bystanders. That's what disperses a crowd.

So, if we do become freepers, in the sense that we believe we can WIN SOMETHING by beating the crap out of people, we should definitely attack this woman, instead of Limbaugh Hannity O'Lielly Coulter et al. It is part of the narrative of the "great ones" that they must fall. But little rats in their holes expect to stay safe and warm in their holes. Attacking the real-estate lady MIGHT scare A FEW people away from airing their views. The point? It beats me. No one has ever been convinced by LTTE's anyway! You just get vindicated by your side and riled by the opposition. I love em...

And while I agree with you that nobody has the right to insult her, it is our right to inform her that we will not patronize Republican businesses.

How did the exchange go? Details if possible?

...that many in this country will no longer patronize Republican businesses.

She wrote back this:

"Obviously I just like to write so maybe I type and think fast but I don’t always make sense. But I’m crying now. I just heard that people are calling me all kinds of names and are going to bombard my company to get me fired. It definitely won’t affect my business because I hardly sell anything at all. I have two small children and try to make money on the side to support my husband’s business. He finishes basements. When my kids get into school I will work more. I can’t stop crying. I probably never should have responded to any of y’all to begin with. "

And I wrote this in response:

"I'm not calling you any names. I'm sure you'll get a lot of that too, since you chose to insert yourself into the political discourse, which is white-hot these days to say the least. And yes, on both sides you'll have people who for whatever reason -- a lack of eloquence or a bad temper or a bad agenda -- will resort to ad-hominem attacks to express political opposition (did you know, by the way, that John Kerry is a coward and a traitor?). What did you expect? Do you not know that a half of this country thinks that George Bush is driving us all into the abyss? Do you not see how people who see their country torn apart, their jobs lost, their constitution shredded, their nation become the most dangerous rogue regime of the world, and their culture descend into medieval bigotry -- do you not see why these people would take it personally? I know you don't agree with these qualifications, and that is your undeniable right; but half of your countrymen and women do, and they do and will take it personally. For those of us who have opposed GWB -- and those of you who have supported him, for that matter -- this isn't just another election, another political game, another in the string of luke-warm American presidents; this is a battle for the soul of the country. And if tempers are hot, don't be surprised. I don't condone or excuse such behavior, and I've gotten into fights with my fellow liberals many times because I felt they treated their political opponents intimidatingly or disrespectfully. But why you seem surprised at this goes over my head.

The only reason I can think you could be surprised is because you are surrounded by fellow Bush supporters and you are buying this whole media bullshit that GWB has a new "mandate" to "unite the country". Rest asured, Regina, that a half of this country will never unite behind GWB's agenda because for us, that would mean betraying the country and its ideals. Maybe you should take a trip to a blue state -- a metro area preferably -- one of these days, since it might be an eye-opening experience for you, and it may shed some light on how deep and wide support for GWB really is.

You're a fellow human being, and I admit that it tugs at my heart-strings to read your message. You didn't insult me but exposed your sadness, and I can't begin to tell you how much I respect that. And I feel for you, I really do.

But not as much as I feel for the 100 000+ dead civilians in Iraq who have died in a war started on a lie, the 1100+ dead US soldiers whose patriotism and sacrifice was taken advantage of for the agenda of Bush and his cronies, the millions who have lost jobs in the US only to be lucky to find another job that pays far less -- and the millions more in the US and all over the world who will suffer under 4 more years of this gang.

And now, it's no longer politics. It's no longer pissing at each other on talking head shows and newspaper pages, and voting every 2 years. It's personal, and it's a battle for the soul of our country and the future of our world. You need not fear any violence or intimidation, but I will do everything I can -- and I speak for many others -- to not patronize any Republican-supporting businesses, and to inform others when I identify them, so they can make their own decisions.

I hope you feel better soon. And I hope we meet one day when all this is behind us."

She never wrote back.

I think our criticisms, myself included, were over the top. Goldmund makes a very good case, but if someone is reduced to tears I can't feel good about that. We did not change her mind. We scared her into shutting the fuck up. That's not cool. I feel compassion, even for the misguided folks.

She was still an idiot. It sounds like she is now sorry she was an idiot. Maybe she should post a retractment and apology. Otherwise, she'll have to deal with the heat. The whole tear jerking responses about having kids and supporting her husband make me thing she's even more of an idiot. She is the one that put her job that supports her kids in jeopardy. She should have known better. I think she expected that the country that rejected our ideals would support her and protect her from criticism and response to what she said.

either. I understand your concern. But, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. No more playing nice. And losing. I want to win. Negativity works for the wingers while our country loses. And since it's the future of our country. And our lives. I'm out to win. Not appease.

we can call ourselves Neo-Republicans.

and be the Good German and let the wingers goose-step right over you while destroying our country. Patriots raise hell and do the heavy lifting while the passive wring their hands. Lead, follow, or get out of our way.

You stick your neck out, you takes your chances.

when the pendulum swings back from freeper land, where did you think it goes? Sweety, you're soaking in it.

todays hot topic is pharmacists refusing to dispense BC pills.

The woman is fool, she has to accept the responsibilty of her actions. Shit even in the NFL you get flagged for taunting.

she thought she could speak her mind, she should think she would hear a response.

it happens after every election. first the hand-wringing can semi-censorship, then the calls to abandon certain groups to attract others, then the pleas for civlity...and the freeper accusations. not realy making a comment on your thread...just the cycle.

2001 redux. Even a few of our long-dormant centrists are suddenly back edumacating us with the old move-to-the-middle-or-lose-forever wisdom. I think maybe I'll root around in the archives and just cut-and-paste my old posts for the next 4 years, save some typing.

:D cut and paste...sounds like a plan! save me from further carpan tunnel damage.

This thread just cracks me up. "Oh NO we are becoming the freepers" Takes one to know one I always say. YMMV. :silly:

Come on folks, how many of you are members of the ACLU? This woman has a right to her (repugnant) opinion, without people googling her and then harassing her employer.

She didn't mention her firm in her op-ed piece, so why threaten them?

Reading the reply she gave to the person here that emailed her broke my heart. Yes, it's an ignorant, uninformed, gloating opinion, but I'm sure her words made some moderates cringe, which I think helps us (kind of like Pat Buchanan's speech at the 2000 convention). This ain't Walmart we're targeting here, guys, but a fellow human being. I have relatives I love dearly who hold these whacko opinions. I wouldn't mind them being set straight, but I'd be pretty angry at any group that harassed them, left or right.

A letter-writing campaign to the AJC or even well-reasoned emails to her is acceptable, but this has been really ugly. As a Quaker, I've that bile and name-calling NEVER change a person's mind or heart, whereas reason will occasionally work

Your post is beyond the weird. Way beyond it. I'm sure your heart is broken. Have you cried for the children of Iraq lately?

.........too much credit. Trust me, she'd wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. She's a moron.