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Somebody PLEASE Help me! (legal tax matter)

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:24 AM
Original message
Somebody PLEASE Help me! (legal tax matter)
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:28 AM by Hubert Flottz
I heard this yesterday from a preacher friend of mine and I want to know if anyone can tell me if it's true!

When a person is a member of a church and he or she tithes and gives the church 10% of their income, do they REALLY get a tax write off at the end of the year for the money they give the church and does that person Really then get all that money back? Are ALL the taxpayers(you and me)really the ones in the end, who support the fundie churches that supported BUSH? What I mean is, if a man gives 10% of a million bucks to the church, does he dodge paying ten percent of his income taxes to the feds, while we keep getting gouged more and more to pay for the Federal Government's expenses, while the church going tax dodgers get out of paying their fair share?

I mean, we know that every time someone avoids(shirks or cheats)their fair share, that taxes go up for everyone who earns an income to make up that difference, right?

Anybody?

Edit} I was SHOCKED to hear this! I've been pissed ever since!

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LosinIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. it is a deduction,comes off of your taxable income
so basically your reduce your tax burden by 30% of what you give, right?
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Donations to most churches are charitable donations
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:28 AM by GumboYaYa
for tax purposes. If you itemize your deductions charitable donations will reduce your Adjusted Gross Income. As a result you pay tax on a lower amount. It is not a dollar for dollar reduction like a tax credit. The amount of the tax benefit depends upon your tax bracket. After about $130,000 of AGI the ability to take those deductions begins to phase out.

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Are there any laws against racketeering in America and...
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:41 AM by Hubert Flottz
if this kind of thing were tracked down to those churches, where the leaders of those churches stood up in front of the congregation and told ALL the members to vote for Bush, would that person be accountable? The motive being, that under Bush the likelihood of their or their churches tax exempt status would be protected!

I know of one church here where the pastor makes $200,000 a year!
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. If the leaders of the churches
told the congregation to vote for Bush, they put their tax exempt status in jeopardy. A church is not allowed to advocate for candidates. It should be reported to the IRS. Once the tax exempt status is lost, the donors can no longer take deductions for their contributions.
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. not exactly...
A donation to a church (generally acceptend as a 501(c)(3) charity) is tax deductable. Thus, a person who contributes money to them may take a deduction which would result in a mitigation of taxable income by the amount of the deduction times the marginal rate of tax. Assuming a 28% marginal rate of income, a $1,000 contribution to a church would reduce a persons final tax by $280.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. That's $280. per thousand that you and I must make up in the end
right?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. yep - though in todays deficit happy spending
it is 280 that we or our children will pay later - along with those current taxes which will also be due.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. No, it's saving you money
Under my March of Dimes example, if I didn't give the $1000.00 to the March of Dimes, the government would have to make that up (in theory). Instead, the government is only "losing" $280.00 as opposed to the $1000.00. My charitable deduction saved the taxpayer $720.00. In theory.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. only if you make the assumption that THIS administration
and congress would make up the difference for the March of Dimes work. No indication that unless there is a buck to be made for their cronies that this would be the case.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Which is why I said "in theory"
But the idea is that it is a small subsidy to get people involved in charity. So much of the tax code is about steering behavior.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. steering behavior - exactly
If you want to see a right-winger's head explode remind him that we taxpayers are subsidizing their homebuying by providing federal tax deductions for both the state property tax paid and the interest paid on the mortgage. I wrote a LTTE on this one time and you should have heard the spluttering - "but, but, but, it is my money not the government's blah, blah, blah, I work hard for my house and I don't want my taxes to go up to provide any lowcost housing for the lazy poor folks blah, blah, blah."
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. I would love to compile a list of churches that
advocated voting for * and go after their tax exempt status.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Their endorsements were not always overt and easy to prove.
For almost four years, some have been preaching the party line: "If you don't support the war, you're unpatriotic, unChristian, etc." I spoke to a lady who was very upset over that two years ago.

They have also been teaching that it is the duty of Christians to "support our leadership", etc. etc.

For several years, some congregations have been captive audiences three times a week to these messages being sprinkled throughout traditional sermons.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Not really (and every charity is treated this way)
Forget about churces for a second and consider the March of Dimes. If I donate $1000.00. I can reduce my taxable income by $1000.00. So, if I make $100,000, I am now only paying taxes on $99,000.

For arguments sake let's make the tax rate a flat 28 percent (which it is not but I don't want to explain tax policy). Instead of paying $28,000.00 in taxes, I am now paying $27,720.00.

Of course, I can do the same thing with interest on my home.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Figure this though!
I hear charitable organizations are not raking in the bucks they were, before the tax cuts! Also Bush is now giving federal funds to charitable organizations! Is that because the fat cats stopped giving and so now the taxpayers are all taking up the slack? Bush is saving his political hide with the charitable organizations, at the lower income earner's expense?
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. This has been the tax code for decades
Bush didn't just make up the charitable deduction.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I know, but he sure has a way of twisting and milking everything
for ALL he can get out of it!
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yeah, but when we give money to PETA, it's the same thing
Maybe we should start sending little notes to the churches letting them know that their congregations are subsidizing our contributions to sinners and heathens.

Do you think that would get a raise out of them.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. I don't know if anything will wake those people up!
But a chunk out of their pocketbook might! Seems like the preachers say dollar a hundred times, to every one time they say Love anymore!
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. It Would Be Fraud
But there has been an accusation of a scam in Canada where kickbacks have been alleged.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/99/05/PresseMontreal060599.html
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Wow!
I'll bet that same kind of thing goes on here too, and probably is really common place! So many ways for the churches to scam the taxman! The GOPers would never crack down on anything the churches do! Most of the dems on the hill would turn a blind eye too, but I think this in your face "Morals" thing of KKKarl's might get the ball rolling, later on down the line! The democratic party has taken some major hits from the fundies by not fighting back! It's doing a number on us for sure!
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