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The Doomsday Strategies: How we can make our final stand.

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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:07 PM
Original message
The Doomsday Strategies: How we can make our final stand.
The fraud is becoming more and more evident as people pour over the results that this election was stolen due to voter fraud on a massive scale. It's now painfully obvious that at least 20 votes from Ohio and probably even more from Florida, Nevada, and New Mexico were ripped away from John Kerry through Black Box Vote tampering.

In January, the new Congress will meet to count the electoral votes and certify the winner. It is here we can, if we are unsuccessful elsewhere, make our stand. It is Congress, after all, that certifies the results, not CNN, NBC, and FOX.

It is at this session of Congress that we can utilize one of two Doomsday scenarios. There are two. The first has overtones of 2000.

In 2000, several brave Congresspeople rose to object to the counting of the votes from Florida, but were shot down because no Senator would join with them. If a single Senator would have joined in them, there would have been open debate in both houses of Congress on the validity of the votes. While it is unlikely that a Republican-dominated congress would have vacated Florida's electoral votes, it still would have put every Congressman on the hot seat, and would have made the 2000 selection more obvious about its true nature: that of a Republican coup.

In 2004, we have pretty solid evidence of fraud in Ohio, and enough reasons to question Florida. We need one Representative and one Senator to rise at that session of Congress, lay out the evidence, and object to the certification of the electoral votes from Ohio and from Florida. While unlikely to succeed, it would put all the evidence out there for the people, and might even sway some of the REAL conservatives in Congress, not the evangelical nuts, that our cause is just. If we eliminate those two states, Kerry has a majority of the valid electoral votes: 252 to 239. Kerry becomes President.

As I said, this is a bit of a hail-mary pass, and has never been successful. However, there IS a precedent for our second Doomsday Strategy. It dates back to another stolen election: that of 1876.

In 1876, Samuel J. Tilden won the popular vote by a fair margin, and also won more electors. However, in a number of Southern states, still under Reconstruction, TWO sets of electoral votes were sent, one set for Tilden, and one set for Republican Rutherford B. Hayes. Congress set up a bi-partisan electoral vote commission to settle the dispute, which ended up awarding all the disputed states to Hayes. Hayes was then certified elected the 19th President of the United States.

We need to pull together our designated slates of electors in Ohio and Florida. The Constitution only states that the electors shall meet in their respective states on the designated day, and cast their votes, to be sent to the Congress. Since the election is (or should be) in dispute in Ohio and Florida, our electors should meet, cast their ballots, and send them off. This would then put 47 electoral votes into dispute.

Using the precedent of 1876, a bipartisan commission would be formed: one Republican Representative, one Republican Senator, one Democratic Senator, one Democratic Representative, and one member of the Supreme Court considered to be impartial. (Someone like Sandra Day O'Connor.) They would examine the evidence, debate the votes, and award the electors as the evidence warrants. Under this scenario, we only have to convice Justice O'Connor that the election was stolen. We have a 50/50 chance of victory under this setup.

If all else fails, and we cannot prove the fraud before the vote totals are certified, these scenarios provide us with our best options to right this wrong. I'd rather we didn't have to use them; we should be able to turn Ohio to Kerry once all the votes are really counted and the fraudulent votes discarded. But we need to plan for the worst-case scenario.

The question is, does our party have the guts to do it?
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. "20 votes"?
:wtf:
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Clarification.
20 ELECTORAL votes.
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MallRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ignore.
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 05:16 PM by MallRat
(talking out of anal orifice deleted)

-MR
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wrong.
A candidate needs a majority of electoral votes.

If the 47 votes are taken out of the equation, they don't count.
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MallRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Oh my gosh... I think you're right.
I just reread it. I stand corrected.

-MR, who is deleting his previous post as you read this...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. You have to take grass roots control, of either party.
And throw these hacks out in favor of obedient politicians, that
will fix the election system so incompetent fools can be thrown
out, elections and campaigns are honest, and the votes are
counted before a winner is declared. The rest will follow, and
nothing less will do the job. You have to take the states back,
and fix the election system state by state, and the national
party hacks will fight you tooth and nail all the way.
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Unstuck In Time Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. At the very least, this would put the issue of FRAUD front and center
And puts another asterisk next to Bush's name in the history books. I'll take that much, at the very least.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The question is...
Will our electors step forward and stand up for Democracy, casting these shadow votes in December?
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Will there be history books?
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Unstuck In Time Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well, not history books, per se...
... most of the space will be taken up by stickers warning that history is "only a theory"!
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