See Clinton diss Kerry tonight? (Replay coming up @ 12 EST)

On Olberman's show.

Hope this isn't a dupe.

He showed some clips of Clinton speaking recently, post-"election."

Bill, going on about the reasons we, and Kerry, lost, said something like, "We had a position to take on abortion, and that position was not taken."

He went on to say something about Kerry/Dems not taking some stand on gay rights, as if Kerry should have come out in favor of gay marriage.

But wait, didn't I read a story here recently that Clinton urged Kerry to take a stand against gay marraige in order to win? To this, it was reported, Kerry said, "I will never do that." (see post 14).

Maybe I'm a litte off on the specific, nuanced stance, but to see Clinton up there tonight, after all the repukes had thrown at him day after day for years, and all that bush has done, and after it should have been known to him the fraud in recording the real vote, to go on about Kerry's campaign as he did, really didn't sit well with me.

I don't know what Kerry's up to right now, but I give him the benifit of the doubt, for the moment. As for Bill Clinton, I'm having a hard time with his critique of a campaign he rallied for.

Anybody notice this on Olberman tonight?


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ON EDIT: The Olberman show is repeated at 12 EST, so it will be shown again soon.

* will do that to ya... not even slick willie can spin this FRAUD to fit reality.

quit whining and start fighting for PROGRESSIVE change and RESISTANCE to these FASCIST thugs.

shame _|_

peace

There is lots of second guessing right now. Clinton told Kerry (as it was reported later) that he should come out against gays and Kerry said he won't do that. Kerry has always been againt gay marriage anyway. I don't understand why the government is involved in marriage anyway. Shouldn't that be something the churches handle? Let the government oversee civil unions. Then if you feel a need for a religious marriage go to a church.

on another news clip. :wtf:

what the hell?

was a little disappointed at his comments lately. awww, c'mon big dawg, you can do better....

There is a reason why I prefer Kerry to Clinton after all.

I'll see if I can find a link

Kerry refused to take Clinton's antigay advice

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=959585

A new report from inside the John Kerry campaign suggests that in the final weeks of the campagin former president Bill Clinton advised Kerry to come out in favor of ballot measures that wrote antigay marriage discimination into the constitutions of 11 states. According to the latest issue of Newsweek, "Looking for a way to pick up swing voters in the red states, former president Bill Clinton, in a phone call with Kerry, urged the senator to back local bans on gay marriage. Kerry respectfully listened, then told his aides, 'I'm not going to ever do that.'"

The advice is not inconsistent with Clinton's record: He is the chief executive who signed the 1996 federal Defense of Marriage Act, which forbids the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages and leaves gay and lesbian couples legally married in Massachusetts since May 17 in legal limbo. The federal DOMA also prevents those couples from acquiring access to the Social Security and other benefits that other legally married couples have.

Similarly, Kerry's response to Clinton's advice is consistent with his position on same-sex couples. Kerry, who voted against DOMA in 1996, told The Advocate that although he believes marriage should be between a man and a woman, he favors the establishment of civil unions that included all the rights and responsibilities of marriage and opposes the federal constitutional amendment to ban marriage that President Bush supports.

more...

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=14285&sd=11/05/04

talking about how abortion rates went down 25% during the Clinton Administration but now have gone up again. Making the broader connection between abortion and the economy.

Hillary Clinton spoke at Tufts University today, and I must say, the woman is one terrific speaker. She made the point that while conservatives like to quote little passages of scripture, if one were to look at the new testament, they would see that Jesus talked alot more about helping poor people than he talked about any of these issues that were the subject of this election campaign (gay rights, abortion etc).

Kerry "lost"

I am sick of hearing the members of the party say what went wrong when kerry won and the BFEE stole the election. :mad:

It appears that he thinks we lost because we didn't pander to the republicans. No, we didn't get enough non-bush people to the polls. Is clinton suggesting that some of those voting for bush could have been swayed? I don't think so! The trick in this election, was to get more dems to the polls (and more people registered dems). Like I am sooooo sure that if Kerry had framed the 'abortion' issue the 'right' way that we would have taken votes away from bush. No way in hell.

The republicans got more people to the poll (if they did, that is, fraud investigation continuing), by creating a HATE issue taht they love to love: gays. You can't sway those people by making better sense. No.

... that said, you are right. He was way too far to the right of the platform and too in bed with religious interests for me. The 90's were quite nice under his leadership, but we were sowing the whirlwind we are reaping today.

Nice to agree for a change ;)

RTP

as it was, should've stayed private.

But the fascists consolidated their power under his watch, and he never even tried to face them down.

On Paula Zahn show, said Bush was a natural politician driven to campaign. Tough opponent. (didn't add that is nasty liar and cheats)

But I thought it was a good point re Clinton Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

I believe that he should not have told Kerry that, and I am glad Kerry stood up. He did this another time just before Iowa.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2004/09/09/dean_offers_critiques_solutions_for_democrats_media_in_new_book/

SNIP..."In another passage, Dean describes how his campaign learned that former President Clinton was calling Democrats encouraging them to switch allegiances in the months before the Iowa caucuses to retired Gen. Wesley Clark.

Dean recounts that one of the people Clinton called was a Dean supporter who described how the former president said that Dean "had forfeited his right to run for president." That was because, Dean writes, he had signed a law creating civil unions for gay and lesbian couples and Clinton believed Dean couldn't be elected as a result.

Those anecdotes, though, are the exception in the book. Dean spends much more time detailing how he believes the Democratic Party lost its way and spent too much time unsuccessfully trying to emulate Clinton when no one had the same political skills as the former president..."

My belief is that we are either for something or against it, and the time has come to stand up for both issues.

of all the things-our party should have reached to religous folk?-give me a break. Those folk will always find a reason to seperate from progressives. After all, they base their lifestyle on a book written centuries ago that was written centuries after the events described therein. Weird.