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Is ** going to reinstate the Draft?

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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:14 PM
Original message
Is ** going to reinstate the Draft?
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 09:15 PM by gordianot
My 22 year old son voted for Kerry. He knows others his age range who voted Kerry for the same reason. My son has asked me what the people on DU think will happen.
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. DC lobbyist called
his sister (my best friend) and told her to immediately get her kids Canadian citizenship as mother has dual citizenship.

nuff said.
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Raftysworld Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh man....
I'll tell you one thing... If he even considers such a thing, I'll be long gone from this country.
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
72. I'll tell you another thing,
Canada has allready signed an agreement to not give amnesty to American draft dodgers.That doesnt mean "Canadians" wouldn't give them the opertunity to try though.:hi: :pals: :grouphug: :hug: :loveya:
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dhinojosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know, but there should be up to 90% republican....
none of this shit where liberals make up most of the fighting force from the draft.

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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. They'll be very sorry if they draft me.
That's all I hafta say.
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I like the way that sounds DireStrike
Very good. :thumbsup: ......... very good.
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blueblitzkrieg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:19 PM
Original message
Another question...
won't millions and millions of young people just say they're gay? Can't we just use their own bigoted policy to escape being drafted?
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patinor4america Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's gooooood........
What a great idea! Except then they'll drop that bigotted policy so fast you won't have time to pull up your pants.
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. well I have a medical excuss so I'm covered
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Remember "Don't ask, don't tell"?
Well, if you tell them they simply won't listen.

When they start the draft, they'll need bodies and they aren't going to fall for something so obvious as wearing a dress to the induction or simply professing to be gay.

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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. 50/50
I hope the odds are that good. I have two sons 20 and 23 and they are both concerned. If the neo cons are crazy enough to take on another country we will have a draft. But if they keep lying and keep the back door draft going and move troops around with the current shell game there won't be a new conscription.

These guys are nuts so who knows. I know a great art school in New Zealand and I bet France would become the Canada of the 60's.
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patinor4america Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is precisely why........
we're seriously considering Canada. It takes three years, my husband found out, to become a citizen in Canada. If you're turning 18 soon, move now. If you're turning 18 in three years, move now. If you're turning 18 in four or more years, you have a little time, but better not take too long to decide.

Don't know how long * will be in power.....but no one can say since the Rethugs have everything as of now.
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StopThief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. No chance.
Why would they want soldiers who don't want to be their, when our professional soldiers are the finest in the world?

Take it to the bank, there will be no draft.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. Stop making sense
I say this all the time, but people here will never believe it.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
49. Many who are drafted might never volunteer, but they'll serve.
Only a very small percentage would actively avoid the draft or be deliberate screw-ups once drafted. If they can get 9 out of 10, it would be worth it. Draftees are not necessarily bad troops -- remember, draftees fought WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Even at its worst, in VN, the draftees fought, and won the battles.

The greatest advocates of all-volunteer army are the people who set up the contractor system, like Cheney. Now, instead of an E2 driving that truck or working the mess hall for 13,000/yr, they have contractors working for contractors working for contractors making 45,000/yr. The contractors make good money for being shot at, but the real money is with the people they contract with, in NC and VA, who aren't getting shot at, but are getting rich.

If a draft is the only way to keep the wars going and the money flowing, there will be a draft.

Bet on it.
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Mister K Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Try 15K per month
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. I'll buy it. I'm a state employee and therefore have a badly
skewed perception of what real salaries are like. $45K/yr sounds like a fortune to me.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. The machinery has already been started up.
On November 4, the Selective Service posted a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the Federal Register. The proposed rule would require matching the computer records of the Department of Education with the Selective Service to be sure that everyone registers for the draft; if they don't register, they can't get financial aid. The rule, if adopted, becomes effective on Jan. 1, 2005. Of course, this notice, though dated October 28, wasn't published until AFTER the election. Just a coincidence? Yeah, right. It sure looks to me like they are getting ready.
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crimson333 Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. How is that different than it was?
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 10:35 PM by crimson333
Even in the early 90's I had to prove I had registered to get financial aid. Everytime they said I had failed to register, so I had to give them a letter showing I had registered for the draft.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. As far as I can tell it means the Ed. Dept. database
is automatically available to SS. So it will be tougher to get away with not registering. It's true that it's been required for years, but they didn't always follow up. Seems to me they are starting to tighten it up for what's to come.
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crimson333 Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. thanks
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. To get ready, the military has to expand the training facilities.
You can't do that overnight. And it takes a LOT longer to train a modern combat soldier than it did during Vietnam. The draft just isn't going to happen, no matter what rules changes they may make in SS registration.
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JeniB Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. They already tried
There's a congressional bill that was before the house earlier this year. It went to the Pentagon for approval and it's stuck there. Apparently, they knew the Pentagon wouldn't pass it so they sent it to them for approval knowing it would be stuck there forever. I hope so because I have a 20 year old son and it's too cold in Canada thsi time of year.
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Crispus Attucks Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:29 PM
Original message
I think Rep Rangel (D) sponsored that bill to bring up the issue.
Reptardicons brought it up for vote before election so it wouldn't become an issue. Even Rangel voted against it. As pointed out before, they're not going to need a congressional bill to re-instate draft.

It's comin.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
59. It was a showcase vote.
Let's keep the unwashed quiet by voting 435-zip on a draft bill that shouldn't have even been let out of committee. It's a sham.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't think it will happen
Republicans have dreams of constructing a 30 year governing coalition.

A return to conscription, barring some bipartisian effort that I cannot envision, would result in the Republicans loosing power very quickly.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. 30 years now to me that is scary.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 09:28 PM by gordianot
My son is convinced there will be a draft.

He also tells me they are issuing AK-47's to American troops in Iraq. They do not have enough American arms and ammunition available. He found this on Internet gun sites.

When I was in ROTC in early 1970's we were told never to let troops use firearms they were not trained to use. This gets people killed.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Extremely doubtful.
The size of the Army was reduced under the Clinton administration. They didn't destroy all those M-16s. They were put in storage. The Army has lots and lots of M-16s, and lots and lots of 5.56 NATO ammo. Whatever site he was reading is full of bull.

Some soldiers do like to carry the AK-47 instead of the M-16 as the AK is more reliable. Also, some individuals may be assigned to carry it for special reasons. When fired the weapons make a different sound, and sometimes you may want your rifle to sound like one of the enemies' rifles. But as a matter of general issue - NO.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. Yeah, I just googled that.
They are issuing confiscated arms to US troops because they are short on rifles needed for guerrilla warfare. Found several sites:

http://vikingphoenix.com/public/rongstad/weapons/military/ak47iraq.htm

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=616
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. I saw his site will try to find again. n/t
Something about ammo shipments not geting through causing spot shortages so they were using AK's because ammo was plentiful. They were not critical of this situation in the article he showed me.

Although I am not in favor of this war I want our young men and women to have the best. No reason they should not have carbine version of AR instead of a weapon they are not trained to use.

I shoot both AK's and AR's at a range for fun. Being an old man I would not want to use either in combat, my training level is not on par with military who are very well trained today.

We live in sad times.
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prairierose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. You don't actually think that they think
all this through, do you?

Besides, they've told so many lies in the last 4 years & still millions of people think they're great. They are probably arrogant enough to think it will make no difference.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I just really doubt it
If there's anything these guys treasure, it is power.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Yes, they do think all this stuff through. Never underestimate
your opposition. Just because they hold to different values does not make them stupid. One of the serious problems that I see here at DU is the common assumption that Republicians are stupid. Underestimate your enemy and YOU WILL LOSE.
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chelsea32491 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. even though they say they won't...
they will. and then, they will tell us how to avoid it! :O

..not really.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think he has two options left
First option: Leave Iraq before there's stability there. Hold an election where many, maybe even most, people aren't able to vote because of security problems, and then proclaim the result a victory for democracy, a stable government, wipe our hands of it, and get out. If the situation then deteriorates to the point that the whole region is in jeopardy, other countries will have little choice but to go in, and the US will embrace a new name for the conflict so it won't seem like he caused it. Besides, this stage could happen after he's out of office.

Second option: Draft.

I think he'll opt for option one.


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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Keep the economy slow
Then he will have enough people available to enlist. This is going to get more interesting.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
63. Other options already in place
Hell only knows how many mercenaries are over there now. They are expensive, but they can draw on an endless pool of Third World second rate gunslingers at bargain prices if they want. It all happens off the record. That's how they've gotten by as long as they have till now. it is possible that there will be a limited draft of medics to serve stateside or in germany, but there would be little outcry ver this.

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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
68. not reallity...
if he 'pulls out,' he and his buddies lose out on being on the ground floor in the 'reconstruction.' W and Co aren't going to crack the oyster and let France, Germany, and Russia steal their pearl.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. He will. But he'll call it "Freedom Preaching"
where you have a gun...a Bible...and some good old fashioned Americana like baseball cards, novelty Enron Stock certificates, and a quaint copy of the "Geneva Conventions"

This young band of "International Real Estate Entrepreneurs" will be trained in 5 minute soul-saving accompanied by 1 hour "Americanization". Failing that, they will exercise plan B 10 second "heathen killing".

Young people will volunteer for this service when they go down to the unemployment office and fail to check the box marked "I don't wish to go overseas in service of my country" printed in Swahili.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. LOL Great
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patinor4america Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yup.
And I've already been trained in 5 minute soul-saving. When I was about 12. Along with a whole slough of other sweet, gullible, devoted Baptist children, the likes of whom do not exist today. Fundamentalist children are not innocent anymore. They are trained to "bring in the sheaves" by hook or by crook.
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nicktom Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Now that made me laugh, thanks I really needed it.
By the way I have two draft age-able sons. The U.S. government calls at least 3 or 4 times a week trying to get them to enlist. My oldest likes talking to them just to mess with their mind. That said I know when I was twenty no one ever called for me. I suspect they are looking for warm bodies.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. My 22 year old son is almost finished with his paramedic training.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 10:08 PM by gordianot
The speculation of his class and instructor is they will be first to go. He is doing this with our help, no government money. On top of classes he works maybe 60 hours a week.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
69. I'm worried too...
I'm a licenced EMT-I, young and in perfect physical condition. I've already been told to watch out for a draft, but hopefully, I'll get old first. During the last Gulf War, wasn't there a medical draft?
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. If you received Government money for your education.
Not sure which grants qualified. I know they were thinking about Physicians
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you can keep them from
being seduced by the elixir of free college, etc. etc.

They should watch Full Metal Jacket, Saving Private Ryan, and others to get a taste of army life.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Why wouldn't he?
Edited on Thu Nov-11-04 09:40 PM by Cat Atomic
Seriously- he's got "political capital" to spend, and really only 2 years to do it before he's a lame duck. The PNAC agenda has been stalled in Iraq. They seem to want to pass off the "security duties" there to some sort of local thug, but the Iraqi forces are performing very poorly from what I've read.

So what to do? They need more warm bodies. The Iraqis aren't cutting it, and there aren't enough American troops. Bush doesn't need to worry about reelection. Seems like a Draft is pretty likely to me.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. So you think this might happen quickly.
The political capital statement is going to haunt Bush for a long time.
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. He said we don't need a draft.......however....
check out this article from the NY Journal....

snip>

Reinstatement of the draft is imminent, war correspondent and author Christopher Hedges told a crowd of more than 120 students and residents yesterday at Manhattanville College.

"We are losing the war in Iraq very badly, but the Bush administration will not walk away from the debacle without trying to reoccupy huge swaths of the territory they have lost," Hedges said. While working for The New York Times, he covered fighting in Central America, the Balkans and the Middle East, including Iraq during the first Gulf War.

To regain territory lost in Iraq, it will take double or triple the current 140,000 troops, Hedges said during the last lecture in a series called "The Costs of War."

<snip

You can read the entire article using the following link.....

http://www.nyjournalnews.com/print_newsroom/110504/b10w05wartalk.html
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Someone posted this on DU a few months ago
BUSH ’04 = DRAFT ’05 SPECIAL ALERT

NOTE:THIS IS NOT THE RANGEL BILL. THIS IS NEW! THIS IS THE BUSH GOP PLAN TO REINSTATE THE COMBAT DRAFT AND START A NEW SKILLS DRAFT. CHARLIE RANGEL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Please distribute this post and the official SSS draft document, the Feb. 11, 2003 “Issue Paper”, to all college newspaper editors, in LTTEs and mass e-mails.

PRINT THE PDF: http://somnamblst.tripod.com/draftalert.pdf
HANG THIS FLYER EVERYWHERE

This is a SPECIAL MILITARY DRAFT ALERT. In May, the Seattle Post Intelligencer published an article about a document they received through the Freedom of Information Act. It was revealed that the SSS is currently “designing procedures” for the implementation of a “Skills Draft” and had held a top-level meeting on it with Deputy Undersecretaries at the Defense Department. This draft would change the essential mission of the Selective Service and require “virtually every young American”, male and female ages 18-34, to register for the Skills Draft and list all the occupations they are proficient in to fill labor shortages throughout nearly the entire government. If enacted, the Skills Draft proposed in this FOI-recovered document would change America as we know it.

The Pentagon is suffering from immediate labor shortages. Recently, the inactive Ready Reserve had to be called up for the first time since the Gulf War to fill 5,600 job shortages in the Armed Forces. DoD said in the recent IRR callup “20% of the call-ups are truck drivers, 12% are supply specialists who can use a computer to track supplies, 10% are Humvee mechanics, 7% are administrative specialists and 6% are combat engineers” (USA Today, August 8, 2004).

Although Congress would have to approve new legislation to create a Skills Draft or reinstate the combat draft, Family Circle reported in its July 13 issue that Karl Rove has polled GOP members of Congress in September 2002 to see if they would support the President if he requests reinstatement. The Republicans said they would vote for the draft. They would likely support the new legislation needed to create the Skills Draft. While Bush and the Republicans are of course keeping the return of the draft and the new skills draft as quiet as possible, many anti-draft organizations have recently begun warning of a “Coming New Draft”.

The Issue Paper document was revealed through the Freedom of Information Act by Seattle Post Intelligencer reporter Eric Rosenberg, who wrote a partial explanation of it that was printed May 1, 2004.

(http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.h... )

Rosenberg’s article was edited, however, and some key points about this document were omitted in the published article. What follows is a full explanation of the document and links to the document itself.

The Secret Issue Paper can be viewed at: http://blatanttruth.org/selective_service091304.pdf

This document is real, having been acknowledged by the DoD and the SSS when they said no action is being taken on it at the present time. However, given the current manpower shortages for certain skills and nurses, if Bush gets back in, expect all the options outlined in the Issue Paper to be implemented by the end of December of this year, and at the least a non-combat skills and medical draft to start next year, if not the male combat draft, ages18-25.

Despite Rumsfeld saying the draft is not needed, this is the same neo-con administration that has repeatedly lied to and misled the American people. Draft-age youth and their families are left looking at a “long, hard slog” in Iraq (Rumsfeld secret memo), the neo-con plans to invade still more nations, and then having to take Rumsfeld and Cheney’s word not to worry about the draft, that they “are not considering it at this time.”

Although official word is that this secret list of options is not being implemented—the Issue Paper options have NOT been rejected and the 6-page proposal is rather sitting in the Pentagon, waiting. In addition, the SSS itself has said that it is “designing procedures” (Seattle PI, May 1, 2004) to implement the skills draft, meaning designing the compliance cards and the data fields needed to keep track of “virtually every young American” and their skills. Acting Director of the SSS Brodsky has also said the Skills Draft is the “top priority” of the Selective Service for 2004.

From the FOI document, we now know that on February 11, 2003, Charles Abell, the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness, and William Carr, Deputy Undersecretary for Military Personnel Policy, met with Lewis Brodsky, the Acting Director of the Selective Service and some other officials. This is the highest-level meeting you could have about the Selective Service, outside of Rumsfeld and his inner circle. They were there to discuss the urgent “issue paper” now revealed, which starts: “With known shortages of military personnel with certain critical skills, and with the need for the nation to be capable of responding to domestic emergencies as a part of Homeland Security Planning, changes should be made in the Selective Service System’s registration program and primary mission”.

Although it would require changes in current draft law, the far-reaching proposal shows how far the Republicans are going to plan and prepare for a huge expansion of the draft. The Issue Paper options include:

- Change the very mission of the SSS to become a massive conscription service in the War on Terror for the entire government.

- Conscript men and women in a critical skills non-combat draft up to age 34 with no deferments of any kind, except “essential community service” (like the Medical Draft).

- Allow a non-combat draft for shortages in critical skills, without calling a combat draft.

- Fill labor shortages of all kinds throughout not only DoD but the whole government, especially high-paying professionals like computer networking specialist or linguist.

- Create a massive database of “virtually every young American” ages 18 to 34. This database would be used to draft in war and to recruit in peacetime. State and even local governments would be given access to the names for recruitment and help in emergencies.

- Create a single-point, all-inclusive database, in which every young person would be forced to send in a “self-declaration” of all of their critical skills, chosen from a long list of occupations like the Armed Forces Specialty Code. The self-declaration is similar to IRS compliance and the filling out and signing of your tax forms. All young people would be required to keep the government updated if they acquired a new skill. SSS Compliance forms will be available at every Post Office. The usual penalties of imprisonment and/or a $250,000 fine would apply to all non-registrants.

- A draft or recruitment could be for any one of the skills you self-declare on the compliance form, not your current or primary skill. This greatly increases your chance of being drafted if you are 18-34

- Bring the Medical Draft (HCPDS) up to speed and fully test it through readiness exercises.

- Reduce induction time from being able to deliver all inductees in 193 days down to just 90 days for skills inductees.

This secret paper urges the mission be changed “promptly”, meaning they really need it, it would draft for the Pentagon as well as the enormous Homeland Security branches as well as other government agencies, even state and local!

For obvious political reasons, the decision was made by Bush, Cheney and Rove to sit on this 6-page proposal until after the election in November. Yet the SSS was told to go ahead and begin “designing procedures” for the Skills Draft in 2004 and make it their “top priority”. It can be expected that if Bush gets back in, and the DoD and SSS are still asking for the Skills Draft, the “Next Steps” part of the document will be put into action and the most expansive option to change the SSS mission will be rapidly legislated.

In the secret planning meeting document, the next steps strongly recommended by SSS Acting Director Brodsky were:

1. “Promptly” redefine the SSS Mission to draft men and women up to age 34 for skills, and deliver them within 90 days or sooner to the Department of Defense. Program a massive database to be ready to enter millions of names of those registering their critical skills.

2. Expand mission to deliver personnel in skills draft to the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, including FEMA, NSC, Border Patrol, INS, Customs, Corporation for National Service, Public Health Service and other federal, state and local government agencies.

3. Form interagency task force to provide Administration with recommendation on this skills draft for the entire DHS and the rest of the government.

4. Obtain White House Statement of Administration Policy on the future of the SSS.

5. Be prepared to market the skills draft, raising the non-combat age to 34 and the drafting of women to the Armed Services and Appropriations Committee.

This proposed expansion of the draft, forcing all people under 35 to register with the SSS, man or woman, is primarily proposed, according to the document, because the cost of providing contract professionals, like computer network specialists, would be “prohibitive”. In this way, the proposed Skills Draft would help preserve Bush’s massive tax cuts for the wealthy by lowering the massive budget deficits.

That’s the new Skills Draft and the secret document behind it. But what about the Combat Draft?

Selective Service has been registering young men for over twenty years and at any moment the President can go to Congress and ask them to reauthorize conscription for the male combat draft for ages 18-25. It doesn’t take much to imagine a re-elected Bush going to Congress and saying “We cannot cut and run from Iraq or the War on Terror. I need you to reauthorize conscription.”

And they would not have to pass a whole new draft law to do it. All that is needed is a “trigger resolution”, which could be passed in the dead of night—and bingo! No debate, no regular bill, just a short resolution passed quickly and the draft for men 18 to 25 is back.

That is why the Democratic draft legislation being offered by Rangel and Hollings is totally irrelevant. These are known protest bills and actually propose drafting women for the combat draft, just to make sure they will never see the light of day. Rangel and Hollings offered them to raise the issue and confront Bush. Hollings even said he wouldn’t vote for his own bill!

They are not needed—and the press and the Republicans will bring them up as red herrings to distract everyone from what is really going on: the Republicans, and the SSS are quietly, behind the scenes, oiling up the draft machinery—getting ready to reinstate for the Spring of 2005. Taken singly, each of the clues indicating the return and expansion of the draft might seem insignificant but when you add them all up with what the selective Service is doing to gear up the combat draft, a clear pattern emerges, leading to the inescapable conclusion that a Bush re-election will see not only a Skills Draft, but a return of the Combat Draft as well.

What is the proof? The government’s own document, the SSS Performance Plan for Fiscal Year 2004:

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

The Selective Service System, or the SSS, has for decades operated at a low level of readiness. Readiness Exercises are conducted on a multi-year cycle but historically these have been little more than getting draft board volunteers together and going over the procedures of what would happen under reinstatement and training new members every summer. And the draft boards themselves have become 80% vacant over the decades.

In the current 5-year cycle of exercises, however, the SSS is clearly ramping up the draft machinery to an unprecedented level.

“Strategic Objective 1.2: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 56 State Headquarters,
442 Area Offices and 1,980 Local Boards are operational within 75 days of an authorized
return to conscription.”

Tie that to this objective:

“An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these performance
measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005.”

75 days from March 31, 2005 is about June 15, 2005. According to the 2004 plan, the draft boards will be “operational” then, meaning that they will be set up in 1,980 local offices around the country. If Bush asks for reinstatement on April 1, Congress could pass it that night and the first batch of over one million 20 year-olds would face the national lottery as soon as that date, June 15, 2005.

Here is how the $28 million is being spent according to the official document. Although the Senate rejected the funding request to bump up the SSS budget to $28 million, the SSS says in one paragraph of the Performance Plan that budgets will be “adjusted” to cover the additional cost for 2004:

“Strategic Goal 1: Increase the effectiveness and efficiency of the Manpower
Delivery Systems (Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $7,942,000)

Strategic Goal 2: Improve overall Registration Compliance and Service to the Public (Projected allocation FY 2004 – $8,769,000)

Strategic Goal 3: Enhance external and internal customer service
(Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $10,624,000)

Strategic Goal 4: Enhance the system which guarantees that each conscientious objector is properly classified, placed, and monitored. (Projected allocation for FY 2004 – $955,000)”

In analyzing each of the 2004 goals in detail it is obvious that there are hidden “activation bombshells” in this so-called “Performance Plan”. Goal number 1 in particular brings the combat induction process up to 95% operational readiness, going so far as to actually hold a mock lottery drawing this year and to issue sample orders to report for the famous medical exam. The document does not reveal the day in 2004 the mock lottery is to be held.
In addition, the Medical Draft, or Health Care Personnel Delivery System (HCPDS in the document), is for the first time brought up to full readiness by next year. This draft would take men and women up to age 44 if they are doctors, nurses or one of 60-some medical specialties. No medical deferments allowed. Previous readiness exercises merely went over what would happen with HCPDS and updated the guide. The 2004 plan actually develops a readiness exercise for the Medical Draft that would be conducted next year. Plus HCPDS must be ready to conscript by June, being part of the system.
Goal number four is particularly ominous.

“Strategic Objective 4.1: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 48 Alternative Service Offices and 48 Civilian Review Boards are operational within 96 days after notification of a return to induction.”

“Strategic Objective 4.2: Develop a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for the Alternative Service Employer Network to specifically identify organizations and associations who can, by law, participate in the Alternative Service Program. This network will provide jobs for ASWs at the local level. Prior to activation, SSS will develop a draft MOU for use when obtaining agreements with qualified employers at the local and national level.”

For 31 years, the Conscientious Objector system, called the Alternative Service, has lain dormant. The 2004 plan also calls for this to be brought up to speed and to be ready to decide cases and place COs in the Alternative Service by July 6, 2005 (96 days after March 31, 2005). The SSS is even going so far as to draw up the SOPs, the Standard Operating Procedures which identify local employers eligible to receive cheap AS workers and to also draw up the actual MOU, the Memorandum of Understanding the employer must sign to get their CO workers and allow their mandatory attendance to be monitored. This is the last obstacle to be hurdled before the draft could actually be ready for quick activation under the law.

In sharp contrast to all this preparation for a Spring 2005 draft by Bush, Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry has proposed a military plan that rejects any draft. By adding 20,000 active duty combat soldiers and 20,000 active “reconstruction specialists”. At a Wisconsin high school, Kerry pledged in June, 2004, that the draft would be “absolutely unnecessary”. When asked in April by 130 college editors in a conference call as to whether he would support a draft, John Kerry said unequivocally: “No. No draft” and he has criticized the use of the Guard and Reserve and now the Individual Ready Reserve as a “back-door draft”.

Kerry plans to spend an additional $7 billion to strengthen the Volunteer Army in what is essentially a “No-Draft Plan”. Moreover, Kerry is strongly opposed to the neo-con plan revealed in Wes Clark’s book, in which Clark was told by a senior Pentagon official that invasions of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan and Somalia were still to come over the next three years.


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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. This may be what my son is referring to.
His Paramedic instructor said they have a skill that is in or may be in demand by the government. Not to be suprised if they have to do some sort of government service. Needless to stay this got a lot of attention.
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Magnulus Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. it depends on how the war goes
If Bush really wants to "win" Iraq, he is going to need a draft. Otherwise Iraq will be stuck for a long, long time in a "quagmire".

Saddam Hussein had such a large army and security apparatus to keep himself in power for years. Now how much more troops would the US need, especially given that they are regarded somewhat coldly by most Arabs? The Republicans had a mediocre plan to win the war (IMO, they should have had alot more armored units, tanks and Bradleys- not RPG magnets like HUMMV's), and a horrible plan to win the peace.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
67. If it continues to go as it's going...he'll crank up the draft next week.
The only ones planning a realistic end to the war are the Iraqis. It's just a matter of waiting 'til the American people realize we lost.
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. Well, like I said in a similar thread before. Bush needs to draft that
little, blond twit from the second debate that idolize the chimp for abortion. Force her sorry ass to put on those fatigues and ship her ass off to Iraq!! How many people want to bet that abortion is going to be the last thing on her mind!!!!
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. There will not be a draft.
The draft issue was something that Kerry was using to try to scare youth into being afraid of Bush. The draft bill was introduced by a few Democrats who think that the military burden should be evenly carried by all of society, instead of by the poor people for whom enlistment is a step up in social mobility. Also, some wanted to bring back the draft because they wanted an issue to help ignite opposition to the military with.

The truth is that if some one doesn't want the military, then the MILITARY DOES NOT WANT THEM. You can do more, militarily, with 10 volunteers, than you can with 30 draftees. That is a simple fact. The military commands would fight tooth and nail AGAINST a draft. Many here don't want to believe that, as they want to believe the worst about our military, but that doesn't change the facts.

Also, congress recently voted 402-2 against a draft. They aren't going to change a stance like that very quickly.

So tell your friend to calm down.
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Your second paragraph---I'm thinking along the same lines
see my post, Silverhair
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
50. That was Rangel's draft that was voted down --
no exemptions, drafting women, written to be untenable. It was meant to make a point, to force a rejection. But the bill was unnecessary to begin with. The law is in place, all they have to do is activate it.

The only major war fought by this country that did not use a draft was the revolution -- I don't count GWI because then we had numerous, powerful allies including many arab and muslim countries. Right now, the second largest force in Iraq behind the American military, is the American contractors.

If you're not worried, you're fooling yourself.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. Of course not. It's going to be called something else
but the end results will be the same.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. They'll call it "Mandatory Service for the Lord and Saviour"
Cause you know, Jesus supports the war in Iraq and all. Just ask President Bush, he's had conversations with him personally.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Freedom Preaching
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
45. The disadvantages of the draft for Bush
Men and women of a variety of political stances will enter the military, not just gullible, pro-Bushites. There will be a lot more resistance to fighting and more people coming home or writing home telling something other than what Bushco wants to hear. The willingness of the military to go off and do his heinous work will diminish rapidly.

Bush would rather have gung-ho types to fight his wars---people who buy his distortions about terrorism and who makes up the "axis of evil."
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
46. The question is, can we somehow limit the draft to those who
voted for him?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
48. All I know is 27 million dollars was spent to prepare for it
by our government . :-(
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telamachus Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. Did you know that
there are draft boards that have not been activated because there is no money for training? I guess they did not spend enough. Illinois is no small state and they still do not even have training dates set for new draft board members because of a lack of funds.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. do you hear all the REGISTER FOR selective service spots
on Air America radio? they are definitely gearing up for the draft.
I KNOW IT.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
54. But * said there would be no draft!
Of course, Unkie Karl will find a way to spin it so it looks as if we really do need one, and get the peoples' support in the process.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
55. Yes, there will be a draft n/t
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Catch 22
Economy improves more employed kids then draft.
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bamacrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. Hopefully not but probably.
I am a 21 year old male so i sure as hell hope he doesnt, i voted for Kerry.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
64. Oh course not and how dare you suggest such a thing!
Such horrible evil lies are the reason you demoncrats lost! A Draft? NONSENSE. Hahaha. I laugh at the notion. Bush says we have all the troops we need, and so we do. There is no need for a draft and shame on you for even suggesting that there might be one!

Also the war was just totally worth the sacrifice. Don't let some smelly anti-war hippy tell you otherwise.

</rightwing mouthpiece>
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
65. Only if he continues to want cannon fodder to do the dirty work.
Of course, he will try and bribe other countries for mercenaries (oops..coalition of the willing) but, when he gets down to Greneda and Lesotho without results....

They'll call it something different, like, "Volunteers for a More Compassionate America..involuntary contingent".
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
66. The emperor* looked right into the camera
and declared that there wouldn't be a draft. How much coming out of this congenital liars mouth have you believed? Here is a man who has never succeeded at anything. He is a miserable failure from the time he crawled out of that ugly old bitchdog of a mother to now.

They aren't going to cut and run in Iraq, they have invested way too much for that. It won't take too long to get a draft up to speed, especially after they spring the next mihop and convince all the brain dead people out here that it is absolutely necessary after we've been nuked on our homeland, and I don't put it past them at all.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
71. Well, the chimp has
lied about everything else, so that's something to consider. We can't get one truthful word out of his lying, corrupt ass for a mouth.
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