Who here is rejoicing over Arafat's death?

Just got an email from a friend of a friend of mine (I've been indirectly drawn into email debates with him), and he's figuratively dancing in the streets over Arafat's death.

BTW - he's a fundy Christian, just won't admit it

n/t

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Him, Sharon - they're both pricks

They will be wishing for Yassar when they see the next iteration coming at them.

Arafat was a moderate compared to what's waiting in the wings. And that Arafat's doctor says he was poisoned. The question is, by who?

So things could get a whole lot worse.

but I don't admire him either. Really, when all is said and done, I don't care that he's dead.

But it will be very **interesting** to see what happens from here.

Many of the senior Israeli leaders did have blood on their hands, but they were willing to compromise and make peace. That's the difference between statesmen and thugs. Chickenfat never did, and I won't mourn him.

He is dancing in the street because a man died. :shrug:

I admit Yasser Arafat was a terrible person. He was, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist. The Middle East may be better off with him out of the picture, though that still remains to be seen.

But to celebrate ANYONE'S death certainly does not fit with my definition of humanity, never mind Christianity.

We celebrate the fact that his death may be the first step to PEACE in the Middle East.

That is what we celebrate!

He was the BIGGEST OBSTACLE to PEACE! And now, that obstacle is GONE!

YEAH!
:toast:

"He was the BIGGEST OBSTACLE to PEACE! And now, that obstacle is GONE"!

I wouldn't worry. The israelis will find another "obstacle". And another. And another...................!

wait... and Ariel Sharon is what? Mahatma Gandhi?


BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA

by a nation that should be content to stay within its own boundaries, and a continued effort to inflict apartheid-like conditions on an entire population.

calling Kerry a flip-flopper.

While, perhaps technically, it may be true, it's hurtling boulders in your own glass house and says more about the person who said it than Arafat.

I don't see how death suddenly makes criticism of a person off limits.

Compared to Sharon, Arafat was a Nobel Peace Prize Winner.

Wait, he was a Nobel Peace Prize Winner!

See how Likud did it? Impressive.

Arafat was a Murdering THUG!
He is the father of terrorism.
He was given EVERY opportunity for Peace.... He was given everything he asked for on a silver platter and STILL wouldn't give up the fight.

He dies a rich man - while his people live in ghettos.
He dies of old age - while he persuades teenagers to strap bombs to their chests and die for him.
He dies in bed surrounded by people trying to save him - but those teenagers are blown to bits, surrounded by as many civilians as possible that will also die.

Am I rejoicing over his death, you bet your a** I am!

See post no. 12.

I don't think he's ever been implicated in any terrorist act.

Where shall I start...
Under such organizations as FATAH, PFLP and PLO... whose motto is...

"armed struggle is the only way to liberalte palestine and is therefore a strategy and not a tactic"

Sounds to me like they at least planned to do harm... but, let's have a quick history lesson...

1. Black September
On September 6, 1970 three planes were hijacked by PFLP: a SwissAir and a TWA in Zarqa and a BOAC in Cairo, on September 9, a British Airways plane at Amman, the passengers were held hostage. The PFLP announced that the hijackings was designed "to teach the Americans a lesson because of their long-standing support of Israel". The planes were demonstratively blown up in front of TV cameras.

2. The Olympics of 1972 aka Munich Massacre
In Sept. 1972, Fatah-backed terrorists kidnapped and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympic games. Also killed a West German Security Guard. (that's 12 more)

3. Suicide Bombers
The wave of anti-Israel terrorism, which resulted in over 1,000 Israeli deaths, by over 120 Palestinian suicide bombers and the growth of an Islamic martyrdom cult.

Side note:
During the 1980s, Arafat received financial assistance from Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, which allowed him to rebuild the battered PLO. This was particularly useful during the first Palestinian intifada in 1987 ¯ Arafat took control of the violence from afar, and it was mainly due to Fatah forces in the West Bank that the anti-Israel terror and civil unrest could be maintained. Arafat would then become nearly the only world leader to support Saddam Hussein in the 1991 Gulf War. (Saddam would later repay this loyalty by sending $25,000 checks to families of Palestinian suicide bombers.)

Shall I go on?

......who did he kill? I am not sure 3 aircraft count.

The Munich action was certainly not pretty. Nor was there any proof Arafat ordered it. And it could have ended peacefully if the German Police hadn't bungled it.

Arafat condemned suicide bombings. And he himself was not a radical islamist - which was why israel funded Hamas as a counterweight (bit of a mistake with hindsight, I'd say!). Arafat always used to go to midnight mass in Jerusalem before the israelis stopped him doing so.

But anyway Dasher, I guess you are the appointed propagandist on this theme for DU. Do you get paid?

And there are still 3 times as many Palestinians killed as israelis.

Yea, he's just a peaceloving old man whos misunderstood.....

Dasher, do you really believe what you post, or do you just repeat what you have been told.

Where was he (presumably you mean the Palestinians) given everything he/they ever asked for?

You made the claim. Now back it up.

They had those peace talks at Camp David - remember?
Well, everything arafat asked for was on the table and he chose to walk away rather than strike a peace agreement.

Look it up...

Or do you want me to do your homework for you?

Israel wanted to maintain complete control of Jerusalem, which was completely unacceptable. Of course the right of return issue was also still a problem.

I'm sure you knew that though. . . . nah, probably not.

...you haven't a clue what you are talking about. The Camp David take-it or leave-it ambush by Clinton and Barak was a shameful episode.

So the Palestinians would have got everything they wanted eh?

Jerusalem was to have remained the "eternal and unified capital of Israel", according to Camp David. Arafat would only have got what Madeleine Albright called "a sort of sovereignty" over the Haram al-Sharif mosque area and some Arab streets, while the Palestinian parliament would have been below the city's eastern walls at Abu Dis.

With the vastly extended and illegal Jerusalem municipality boundaries deep into the West Bank, Jewish settlements like Maale Adumim were not up for negotiation; nor were several other settlements. Nor was the 10-mile Israeli military buffer zone around the West Bank, nor the settlers' roads, which would razor through the Palestinian "state". Arafat was offered about 46 per cent of the 22 per cent of Palestine that was left. And don't even mention the right of return!

And you still claim they were offered everything they wanted?

And, BTW, it was the israelis who left when Arafat rightly turned this nonsense down.

if Sharon dropped dead, maybe peace could indeed by realized in the ME.

position you come up with. Hell, with enough illogical hate, you can even spew non-factual crap with no evidence to substantiate your claim.

You really are just spewing bullshit that you have no facts to back up aren't you?

If you want to talk about the "father" of terrorism, let's discuss a group of Israelis that bombed the King David hotel years before Arafat ever even came on the scene shall we?

....... One of them went on to be a Prime Minsiter of israel. Strangely the israelis allowed this terrorist to be buried in Jerusalem.

There were terrorists long before Arafat was born....

sticking israel in the middle of an already occupied country was more flawed.

I'm not dancing in the streets though.

the headline was 'The Arafat Lady Sings' with a picture of Arafat's widow.

Since I'm not that old I don't have the whole story on the I-P, situation. But from what I've seen, I think if Arafat hadn't lost his best peace partner - Yitsak Rabin, (sorry about the spelling) then history would have viewed him a lot differently.

I believe when Ariel Sharon dies, he'll be regarded in much the same way as Arafat is now.

American politicians will break into paroxysms of praise for his great leadership and commitment to peace, whatever they privately believe. All you have to do is look at the political landscape to know that.

:)

Gyre

And the odds are, it won't.

"I was overwhelmed by their decency, and embarrassed. I knew what a bitter enemy Rabin had been to the Palestinian people. He was the one, after all, who issued the order to "break the hands and legs of every stone-thrower" during the first intifada, which led Israeli soldiers to break the limbs of every young man in the villages of Beita and Hawara, leaving only one with his legs intact, so that he could run and break the news. "



http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1349398,00.html

It seems to be deliberately tasteless.

how you can write about Rabin, and then completely ignore the fact that it was Arafat who singlehandedly handed over power from Rabin's protege--Ehud Barak, a very willing partner in peace--to Sharon. That, in my opinion, was the final straw--Arafat was always about Arafat and not much else.

I'm fuking doing cartwheels over that murderous bastard's death. He can fry in hell with Ronald Reagan, as far as I'm concerned. Save some room for Gerry Adams boys, he's got a reservation at "the inn" too.
I also find it ironic that they had to bury Arafat in Ramallah, because the Israeli's won't let him be buried in Jerusalem. Many people like to talk about the "right of return" to Jerusalem for displaced Palestinians. Nobody wants to talk about a "right of return" to Ramallah for the displaced Christians.

with no inkling of reality or fact.

They left of their own accord. So by your logic the 'right of return' is a load of crap.

cases of illegal deportation as layed out by Amnesty International. Of course there's numerous UN Resolutions against Israel for illegal deportation of Palestinians as well.

You might learn something if you quit spreading your hate long enough to investigate the facts.

in fact many were massacred.

PS... Palestinian also includes Palestinian Christians.

but "nobody" forced them to leave. Yeah right.

Why should he be buried in Jerusalem?
Why don't they bury him in Egypt, if he indeed wants to go "home again"?

Why should he be buried in Jerusalem (Mount of Olives)?

Why didn't they bury him in Poland (actually his birthplace is now in Belarus)?

See how this works?

and most Israelis should be buried in Eastern Europe and america.

of Jerusalem. It's a clan pride thing (Husseini). You need to read up on the history of Palestine, the clan rivalries and how the British fucked them over before Israel became a Jewish state.

Franken was doing some skit about interviewing the pillow that was held over Arafat's face and had someone mimiced his muffled dying screams. They were laughing hysterically at it.

I wrote to the show and told them they should also interview the bull dozer that ran over Rachel Corrie and laugh at her dying screams and crunching bones - they should also find that hysterical.

Of course we've been through several courses of "Yes he is" and "No he isn't" since then.

This will destablize the area even more I fear. And I've often thought that the Palastinians have gotten a raw deal. I wish I saw more empathy from the Israelis for a people who are much like themselves.

The Palestinians are in mourning for the only real leader I think they've ever had. So I do feel badly for them. It's not appropriate to dance. Neither is it Christian, at least in my eyes.

I did appreciate Bush's immediate reaction to the original, if faulty news, which was "God rest his soul." Every once in a bloomin' while, he'll come out with something decent. I think the last time was Sept 12.

But hearing that a terrorist extremist muslim dirtbag has bit the dust does makes us all a little safer.

It's a little strange that so many people here are willing to call the Iraqi resistance freedom fighters, but call Arafat a scumbag. I don't recall Arafat ever personally beheading anybody, or killing thousands in a far off country or calling for the end of western civilisation. Gerry Addams now has legitimacy - he used the tools at his disposal just like Arafat.I am no way a fan of either of their actions but some of you people need to get a grip. He was not the source of evil in this world. He contributed a little bit to it.

ever since the election was over... a lot of people here are "hooraying" the iraqi resistance... which is a penis head thing to do in the very least... before the election it was 'we support the troops'. I've lost all respect for a number of DUers, whose names I will not mention here... that are now resistance sympathizer... god forbid any of you ever run for office... we know your screen names :-)

I don't call the Iraqi head choppers "freedom fighters". I call them murdering scum.

Arafat may have not have personally been a suicide bomber..but he certainly sent many to their deaths.

Good riddance all.

He was a terrorist, and now there will be a chance for a Palestinian state with him gone. I pray for peace in that region of the world.

does not make me shed a tear.

... I shed no tear

.......you shed a tear when Mandela dies? He was convicted of terrorist offences.

Menachim Begin blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1947 - the first act of modern terrorism. He killed Brits, Jews and Arabs. I don't recall israel condemning him as a terrorist. And he was buried in Jerusalem.

... I despise all cold-blooded murders the same

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...he's just repeating what he's been programmed to say. Unfortunately for him he has now been caught out by logic and is rapidly disappearing up his own sphincter.

... from what I've learned, Arafat was a murderous thug. He was no hero to me.

.........then you haven't learned enough.

Try some newspapers like The Guardian or The Independent. Unbiased stuff with all sides explored.

If you really want to learn, that is.

But I don't see myself "dancing in the street" over the death of anybody.

but what ever they get will be far worse than Arafat:(
It could be scary

A veteran Israeli peace campaigner and former MP paid tribute to Yasir Arafat, describing him as a man who wanted and could have delivered peace in the Middle East.

Uri Avnery was one of the few Israelis to attend Arafat's burial in Ram Allah on Friday.

"More importantly he was the man that was able to make peace and what is even more important, he was the man that was able to get his people to accept the peace. In this respect Arafat was unique, and I think we shall long for him."

"I am worried about the future. There are good decent people who are trying to fill a huge vacuum but I am not sure they will be able to get Israel to accept what Arafat laid down."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FEE19C78-6469-409C-9C68-5C3F5D0DFA31.htm

Am I rejoicing? No.

Do I hope that his passing is a catalyst for positive change in the Middle East? Yeah.

-MR

....he's no Osama, but I certainly won't be shedding tears for him either.......

There were many inexcusable actions against civilians to which he gave tacit approval, if not outright ordered. That having been said, I take an extremely dim view of the Israeli government.

Incidentally, I am sick of hearing "Well, Ariel Sharon did..." every single time someone says something remotely critical of Palestinians, and vice versa. It's as if condemning one automatically implies approval of the other, or that the parallel actions of one side just nullifies that of the other.

Given that this black/white perspective is absolutely rampant, even here at DU, I would imagine that the I/P forum is a fuckin bloodbath right now.

obstacle to peace, supporter of terrorists, and a really ineffective leader. good riddance.

sitting on 4 billion dollars and giving his wife a $100,000 a month stipend while his people were starving...

Another political hypocrite living large while the hopeless and helpless he "led" just kept on drinking the kool-aid. He was really about self-perpetuation, lies and murder. Just an awful human being now visiting one of the deep inner circles of hell.

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and i'm not sad or upset in any way either.

I'm rather indifferent to Arafat's death. Perhaps, hopefully, a new leadership will emerge from the Palestinians that will use more effective tactics against their Israeli oppressors. Specifically, non-violent tactics that will win more support here and bring their cause to the forefront without the stain of "terrorism" to undercut it.

But, in light of the history of the struggle, I doubt it. Too many fingers in that pot stirring up bloodshed.

I have no feeling one way or the other because I never met the man. I find it distasteful to celebrate when others are grieving, but to each his own.

Too bad there is only one eternity!

the ideas that cause terrorism live on (on both sides).