A Homeschooling Vent

I tuned in to Morning Sedition this morning while working around the kitchen and was dismayed to hear them perpetuating misconceptions about homeschooling. I'm sick of people assuming that I homeschool my children because I'm a fundamentalist who wants to shield them from reality. Quite the opposite, in my homogenous area of the country I have to homeschool to expose them to diversity. If you'll hang in here with me I want to run down two conversations from election day.

Setting: Polling Place
Characters: One of my neighbors brought his high school senior son to observe the voting and stood immediately behind me in line. He is explaining the ballot to the boy. Neither one has struck me as particularly unintelligent before.

DAD: This is the list of people who want to be president.

SON: Why are there so many names? I thought just two guys were running.

DAD: No, other small parties have candidates. <pointing to one name> See, this is the guy running from the Communist Party.

ME: <turning around> Actually, the CPUSA hasn't fielded a candidate in years. That's the socialist candidate.

DAD: Oh, same thing.

<I turn back around>

DAD: Here's where we vote for senator. Do you know how many senators we have?

SON: We're only voting for one.

DAD: No, I mean in the state.

SON: Uh...

DAD: We have two. They represent the whole state. These are the candidates for U.S. House of Reps. How many of those do we have?

SON: Uh...

DAD: Well I can't remember how many are in Florida, but only one represents our district.

SON: What are all those names?

DAD: Those are the judges on the Florida supreme court. We vote whether to keep them or not. I'm going to vote against them because they allowed the recounting to continue in 2000.......

**************** I return home ****************

ME: Liam, may I ask you a few questions?

LIAM: Yeah, okay.

ME: How many senators do we have in Florida?

LIAM: 2

ME: So how many does the entire Senate have?

LIAM: Duh mom, 100.

ME: How long is a senator in office?

LIAM: 6 years, what is this all about?

ME: Just humor me. How many people are running for president?

LIAM: I can't remember, but it's gonna be one of the two major guys who wins.

ME: How long is a president in office?

LIAM: 4 years, 8 at the most. Hopefully Bush'll be one of those 4 year guys. Can we impeach him if he wins today?

ME: We'll talk about that later. How many reps are there?

LIAM: Scads, but we've got 25 from Florida. I think it's 25. Is that right mom?

ME: 23, 25 is the number of electoral votes we have because of adding in the senators.

LIAM: Oh yeah, and then there are a couple of extra electoral votes for DC, right?

ME: right. How long are representatives in office?

LIAM: It seems like they're always running for re-election.

ME: <chuckling> They feel like that too. It's two years honey.

***** Liam is 7 years old ***********

Besides the frequent stories of bullying in the local school, not wanting to go to the doctor for a doctor's note every time my child is too sick to go to school, enjoying the freedom to travel at will throughout the year, letting my child talk during his lunchtime, anticipating endless notes from the teacher or an ADHD referral because of his activity level.......THAT example is why we homeschool.

If I hear the strawman argument about "seat money" one more time I will scream. I am not abandoning America because I choose not to participate in the option of public schooling. I have the utmost respect for teachers everywhere. How they do it in a system that is stacked against them is beyond me. I had my share of fantastic teachers and my heart goes out to them. I am not anti-teacher, nor am I necessarily anti-school. I am pro-homeschooling for my family and I am not a fundamentalist Christian. It's that simple. Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.

Back to my baking.

The people I know that homeschool their children do it because their kids succeed with the individual attention they get at home - not necessarily because of religious reasons. It is bizarre that educated adults are in need of education re: homeschooling.

rather than fill him full of dope so he is "manageable" in a group of 30 kids

not all folks can do what you do and not all home schoolers have your sense. None the less, I'm glad you have the opportunity

thanks for the other side of the coin

a whole heck of a lot more liberals will be homeschooling.

Question: (respectful--just curious how this works with homeschooling) is your child involved in activities outside of the home that allow for general socialization?

My son is involved in a community choir, a soccer league and a homeschool group that meets at least once a week but usually twice. <Sunday School> On one of those days we mimic a classroom setup for an hour and a half to get the kids used to that kind of disciplinary environment. They also organize field trips. We attend a UU church where he is enrolled in an RE class. He takes piano lessons.

Additionally, he's got a ton of friends in the neighborhood who do attend the local elementary school. From 2:45 in the afternoon until about 6:00 p.m. I either have a house full of 7-9 year old boys or don't see him at all because they've invaded some other poor mom's peace and quiet.

I'm actually getting nervous for when my two younger boys start to get involved. I'm never going to have a free moment again. The middle child starts mini-kickers in the spring and is hinting around for drum lessons. At four years of age I think I'll hold off on that one for a couple of years.

Homeschooling is a misnomer. Very little has anything to do with "home." :o

I'm glad you are able to do this for your son. There are two basic factions of home schoolers those like yourself that do it because the public schools don't fit their needs. This type does it so their children can get a great education not to hide out from the world. Many gifted children that have (and many that don't have) learning disabilities fall into this group, the public schools just don't reach these children. This group wants to lift their children up and show them the world.

The other side of the coin are the ones that get the press because frankly they aren't very nice people. They are intolerant and elitist. They have to protect their children from those nasty people that don't think and believe the way they do. My sister is one of these, she won't send her children to public school because they won't be allowed to preach to the other children. Also in this group are the abusers that don't want the world to find out what special type of hell their children live in. I lump them together because both types are oppressive and abusive toward their offspring. These people want to hide their children away, shelter them from other points of view and control their every thought and movement.

CBS ran an awful story last Spring that even generated a negative response from 22 U.S. congressman who either homeschool or support the right to homeschool.

One of my aunts is a fundy homeschooler. Her kids will probably end up at Bob Jones University. *shudder* I think the oldest goes off to college next year.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I started out homeschooling our son, but unfortunatley we couldn't make it financially and I had to go back to work full-time. However, we still make it a point to work on his education in the home. Kids who have parents who care about their education in this way are much more intelligent than those in public schools. I've seen it time and time again with my own son who is 11. Before the election he comes home one day all upset and when I asked him what was the matter he tells me that his teachers are ignorant. I asked him what he meant, thinking a teacher had insulted him or something. He tells me that his social studies teacher was leading a discussion on politics and didn't have his facts straight. My son actually took over the discussion and explained a lot of the things that you and Liam were talking about. His teacher didn't even understand how our election processes work.

Keep up the good work with your son and maybe the two of them will meet one day and work together to fix things in our country. :)

reasons - but my understanding is there are a vast majority that home school because of religion and not wanting their children exposed to evolution

Homeschooling as a modern movement began in the 60s with the liberals. The conservatives are the ones who dominated the press with their legal battles in the 80s. So I'm actually somewhat indebted to them for paving the way and making it easier for me today. No statistics are kept, but I would be very surprised if religion was still a dominant reason for homeschooling. Every year regional and national conventions hear that less and less. Quality of education and negative peer pressure consistently top the list of reasons.

I wouldn't wish it on any basically normal child. However, if you're happy with it - go forth but I personally think it still works best for fundamentalists trying to brainwash their younin's. Life is harsh enough, help them wade in a little early and keep on immersing so they will not be "too shocked" with the lack of humanity.

I'm seeing more fundy homeschool families putting their kids back into the system. Why? Because they've taken over the school boards around here. We've got some great people running for school board and liberals, schooling and homeschooling, have been fighting like hell to get them on the board. It's pissing in the wind in this red county. No, that doesn't mean we're giving up the fight, but I'm not sure the self-segregation of fundamentalists is as prevalent as it was 15-20 years ago. Just a hunch based on what I'm seeing IRL here and nationally OL. No stats to back it up.

I didn't read the whole thread, and I see you answered my objection to your objection.

I'm another homeschooling parent who's not a fundamentalist. I have seen the Bush education agenda in Texas and do not want my child's natural curiousity and intelligence dulled by that system. Sometimes I wonder whether public school would be best, but then I saw a Veteran's Day parade on Thursday. Elementary school kids were holding up banners "Old Glory Still Waves," and the like and mono9ments to WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom.... I honor veterans, but our intervention in Vietnam's civil war had nothing to do with our liberty here. The killing of a hundred thousand Iraqi adults and children (I bet there were pregnant women among them, George!) only contributes to our enemies' power (remember the lines outside recruiting officed after 9/11?). Send my child to soak in a culture of jingoism? Nah.

"mono9ments" That's monuments. We study spelling, too!

If there were no public schools, some kids -- like yours -- would get a wonderful education, and a whole lot would get none at all. That's why I feel it's important to keep my kid in our local school -- the more involved parents and smart kids who stay in, the better the whole system is.

That said, ultimately your own kid comes first. Luckily my local school is very good (not as good my own UtopiaSchool would be, of course!) and since I work from home anyway, we can do all kinds of enrichment and homeschooly type things on the weekend and after school.

I think supporting the public school system should be something to consider when deciding what to do with your kids -- but yeah, your kid shouldn't suffer for ideals, either.

I gladly pay property taxes to support the schools. I buy that god-awful overpriced wrapping paper. I research school board candidates and vote for whom I believe to be the best members. I am a very loud voice for advocating excellence and adequate funding for public schooling.

I don't know about our democracy depending upon public school though. In theory yes. In practice I think public school has been a contributing factor to electorate apathy. The system often encourages blind obedience to authority figures and doesn't leave much time for open debate. We encourage kids to pass the test, not test the pass. Have you read Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto? Public schooling wasn't initiated for the democratic principles we think it was.

I can't imagine our country without public schooling, I do think it's vital. I just think it needs to be viewed objectively and critically.

As a former public school teacher, I can tell you that it is NOT one of the objectives of our current system to teach students to think objectively (or really to think at all).

That being said, I don't homeschool because I fear I wouldn't have enough time and I probably wouldn't be disciplined enough. My son does not go to public school, however. We chose a small Christian private school - not because of Christianity but so that he could get an education.

My son spent his first year in the public school learning absolutely nothing. If he were to go back there today, he would be in the Special Education program and would be labeled for the rest of his life. They would teach him that he doesn't have to do as much as everyone else. They would teach him that he doesn't have to learn because his brain won't let him. I will NOT tolerate that.

As it is, he is in the private school setting where he gets lots of individual attention - something he desperately needs. Even with that, it takes us 2 or 3 hours a night working on what he needs to learn.

It is a constant struggle but my son WILL learn to read and WILL be raised to believe that he can do whatever he puts his mind to. I will NOT let him be limited by his disabilities. I will teach him to recognize his own limits and not allow others to tell him what they are.

When he reaches adulthood, I expect great things from him. He is very intelligent in many areas. But, dyslexia and ADHD make him not fit into the traditional public school definition of a successful gifted student.

I'm thinking in terms of the very basics. If there were no public schools, our literacy rate would fall dramatically. And if people couldn't read, we'd have no hope of being truly democratic (that is, a country ruled by a people who participate in the system and know what the hell they're doing).

As it is, many people can't read or are horribly uninformed right now, and yes... our democracy is in bad shape.

And though I haven't read that book, I've read some articles about Gatto (I think) and am familiar with the arguments. At this point, I can't see any option but trying to fix the schools, because abandoning them wholesale would make things worse.

Also, I'm basically a populist, and I like it that my kid is surrounded by people from so many different backgrounds and will be forced to deal with them. I'd sooner homeschool than go the private school route.

Then again... middle school was SUCH an awful experience for me, I'd yank my kid in a heartbeat if it was not good for him, either.

So yeah... I absolutely know where you're coming from. My solution has been public school and lots of enrichment. I do think that the IDEAL democratic country would have excellent free educations for everyone. We ain't there, but I hope we keep working toward it.

than it was before public schooling was mandated in 1880? I don't know stats from other states, I don't even know if they were compiled. That's the one that I keep seeing.

Yes, I do know what you are saying and that's why I continue to fight for improving free education everywhere, not just in my own district.

homeschool for academic reasons, especially when they do as good a job as you're doing. I also know some who homeschool their special needs children, because the public schools can't or won't teach them in ways they can understand. If parents are smart and well-informed, they can be great teachers.

But it does make me uneasy when I see people homeschooling primarily to keep their kids isolated from the evil, secular world. In those cases, I don't think the parents are doing their kids any favors. And that's the group of homeschoolers that gets the most press.

However it falls short in that it doesn't discuss the reasons many are uneasy with both the homeschooling movement and the voucher system.

I, for one, believe very strongly that a major strength of this nation is its public school system, or should be a strength. I see, in the right wing movement to end this system, a multi pronged attack on diversity and a call for religious based uniformity.

One cannot help but applaud your example of a successful home school program and the commitment to your child's education, both social and academic. At the same time one doesn't abandon the public school system because of one thoughtful parent.

I'm just tired of people making erroneous assumptions about my reasons and exasperated at the continued dissemination of misinformation about it.

As a father of four (single parented two) grandfather of twelve , and a former DP manager for a County Office of Education I have some rather passionate views of our educatory process.

Your example of homeschooling is exemplary but every child out of the public school system weakens that system. I would prefer you spent your considerable energies on reforming your local school district.

This opinion is in no way an attempt to diminish yours or your sons terrific achievements.

He's an average 7 year old, no genius to be sure.

Can you explain to me how every child out of the public school system weakens the system? I've never received a solid answer to that question. I do spend a considerable amount of my energy directed towards improving the local school district, but I'm not going to sacrifice my child's education in the meantime. I have no doubt he'd be miserable in a classroom setting and as I mentioned, I suspect he'd be a disruption in the classroom. He does not have the attention span necessary for that environment. And teachers do not have the time to adapt their methods to suit my child.

doesn't have the time to adapt their methods to suit your child?

As a mother of a child with special needs I have been trying to get my son to understand the world around him and for him to become more adaptive to circumstances. He is still unique and quite a little guy but I know that he has to live in the world with other people and situations that he has to learn to deal with in a productive manner.

I have worked in industries for which my degree did not prepare me. My background is in engineering so I was technically prepared for my job but I got my first job in a manufacturing facility where I had to learn a lot about ceramics so my boss and mentor had to teach me what the company did and what things I needed to know.

My second job was in healthcare and I had to learn a lot and luckily for me I had some great mentors there as well. We had a number of internal classes.

I recall that during the first week at my second job we were in a specialized training class to learn the software and there was a fellow that was so upset with the structure of the training and the "rigid" style of the company that he quit after lunch on the third day.

of that particular job or company; but I'm not seeing how that kind of temperament is necessarily the result of having been homeschooled or how homeschooling can't or doesn't provide the kind of structure necessary to make the sort of on-the-job mentoring you experienced successful.

We learn 'structure' from many different activities in our lives; traditional schooling is but one of those available.

Very simply by the numbers of children enrolled in them....Also by the numbers of parents who, unlike you I note, fail to continue to devote time ,energy and money to a school in which they have no child enrolled.

There have always been alternatives to the public school system. Private and Parochial schools have always been options and now homeschooling is added to the list. I do not mean to include you in the following rant:

We see, from the far right, a continuing attack on our public schools. Vouchers and alternative educatory options weaken what I have already noted is an institution that teaches many lessons outside of the academic. The schools are places wherein our children learn socialization skills, learn that other kids come in varying shades, ethnicities and from differing cultures. The far and religious right wants a homogeneous society in which we are all the same, worship at the same church and believe in the same tenets and principles and ,perforce, are alienated from those who differ in any of those respects. In other words they seek to make America less than it should be.

Many times major sources of funding are allocated based on something called "seat money." Because of differences I can only speak to how it is done here. Our enrollment numbers are based on attendance records from a handful of days throughout the school year. If a child is absent or late on one of those days than a child who is officially enrolled in the school system doesn't count for funding either.

When people complain about unenrolled children hurting income, they fail to mention that the child is also not a cost to the system. I don't know if it evens out, but it should be acknowledged. The Brevard County school system would suffer a tremendous financial shock were all homeschooled children to suddenly enroll. We would not have enough teachers, classrooms, textbooks, etc. The cost estimated to build new schools to accommodate the increase in enrollment and hire/maintain teachers would not be equal to the increase in seat money. The financial argument can be played both ways.

Schools are places children can learn socialization skills, but they are by no means the only places. The idea of exposing school children to multi-culturalism via the public school system doesn't necessarily hold up in all places. Because of geographical districting many school children, especially in the elementary ages, could find themselves in incredibly homogenous school environments. My local school district is a prime example. For diversity we have to look behond the local elementary school.

So back to my quibble with the folks on Morning Sedition. The reasons for conservative homeschooling cannot be equated to the reasons for homeschooling in general.

that I was as erudite a supporter of the public school system as are you for homeschooling.

Every child that leaves the system for homeschooling weakens that system (to abstract cost from money for a bit).That being said I recognise the need for individual solutions to individual problems.

The main difference between us , I fear, is that you are simply supporting something that is being supported by those I oppose and fear.....its a freakin' complicated world.

As someone else pointed out, the issue is more complex than being liberal v. conservative. So you have people you oppose opposing something you oppose and people you support supporting something you oppose. Yes, it's a freakin' complicated world. :-)

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how homeschooling weakens public schooling. As a liberal, I support freedom of choice and that includes the freedom to choose how our children will be educated. Ultimately, it's my family, not the government's. That being said, I support optimizing the quality of all of the choices available to us. Because my children are not participating in public school does not mean I want the children in school to have an inferior education.

or perhaps you disagreed with it but I posted a response to how homeschooling weakens public education.

1. The fewer in public school the weaker that school becomes. In some places the poorer it becomes as well.

2. The fewer parents demanding a superior education for their children via a public school system.

3. In general and as a rule if one doesn't care for something as important as I feel public school education is to this nation one doesn't cut and run one works to make it better.

Please do not repost the fact that you still work to raise the level of public school education I got it the first time. I am not denying
your right to home school your children but I am stating that it is elitist and coldly ignores the many who simply do not have that option.Further I think that this has been done to death and , other than equating your home schooling efforts with those who leave the country because they cannot tolerate the policies of this government, Ive nothing further to add or ask. Have a nice day.

You may have provided those answers, but they are really non-answers.

1. The fewer in public school the weaker that school becomes. In some places the poorer it becomes as well.

You'll have to explain to me how adding children back into classrooms that are already over-crowded improves the system. I've already pointed out the fallacy in the financial argument.

2. The fewer parents demanding a superior education for their children via a public school system.

Per capita or in total? Demanding a superior education until I'm blue in the face does not resolve the fact that my son's learning style is not well-suited to the teaching methods inherent in a classroom environment. Are you assuming parents who do not homeschool will not demand a superior education in public school?

3. In general and as a rule if one doesn't care for something as important as I feel public school education is to this nation one doesn't cut and run one works to make it better.

Which demonstrates an incredibly unfair generalization of homeschooles leading me to believe you haven't interacted with terribly many.

...and coldly ignores the many who simply do not have that option.

What a bitchy thing to say. You haven't a clue!

Further I think that this has been done to death and, other than equating your home schooling efforts with those who leave the country because they cannot tolerate the policies of this government, Ive nothing further to add or ask.

Yes, it has been done to death. Apparently, some people value the ability to choose and respect the rights of parents to raise their own children and others don't.

Q: How does homeschooling (which takes children out of public schools) weaken public schools? A: Because the fewer children in school, the weaker the school.

Your second point essentially assumes that homeschooling and working to better public education are mutually exclusive, but that's not necessarily the case. Your third point is redundant.

Your 'response' is little more than a personal attack on homeschoolers as cold and elitist; it's not really a substantive response to the question.

For the same reasons *I* do. :) My not quite 6 year old sounds a lot like your child. LOL I also am not a fundy, and choose HS because of concerns of the dumbing down in PS (and that my children are very active and most likely being labled ADD/ADHD which they aren't). Stick with it and don't let the idiots out there tell you you are doing something wrong!!

equate difference of opinion with idiocy? Perhaps you should have been (home)schooled better.....joke.

We got two more after the 2000 reapportionment. We now have 27 electoral votes.

I knew that. I had a brain cramp. I'm retelling a story that happened over a week ago. I remember he was off by two. What can I say, he has a mommy with a brain like a steel seive.

She has ADHD (she got it from me, unfortunately, only way back then they called it 'not paying attention.') Medication has helped her some, but she just doesn't do well in a classroom setting. I helped her with her homework recently, and she does very well when it's one-on-one interaction. I have to wonder if maybe a classroom is too distracting for her.

Unfortunately, homeschooling is impossible for her. Her mother must work, because she provides the family with health insurance; also she earns more than her husband. And no, I can't do it because I live 500 miles away.

I really dislike our schools here. I've already been told that even though my youngest daughter is very smart, she will start having real problems next year because of her lack of attention. She won't be able to handle the pressure of extra subjects they get, once they start 3rd grade. The teachers have said she likely has ADD (without the H, because she is not hyper at all, mostly sweet & quiet.. and no confidence.) Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to homeschool. Sure, I can read & write, and do basic math. And I mean basic. Don't give me word problems and if 2 trains are traveling opposite each other I couldn't tell you when they will collide. My oldest daughter is in 4th grade, and I can't help her with most of her homework. Well, ok, maybe 1/2.

education in our public schools. I'm sure that your daughters and the person above's neice are like my son and have great intelligence.

My son has a "photographic memory". I won't ever forget when he was learning his letters - I would see him close his eyes and appear to be thinking real hard. In fact, I learned that he was looking at the posters on the wall in his classroom in his mind.

Today, still, when we are reading, he will look at the page, then turn away and be looking at the ceiling as he recites the line. It is so frustrating sometimes. When we read, he rolls around on the bed, looks at the book upside down, and just generally drives me crazy.

We had him diagnosed with ADHD and I am fairly certain he is dyslexic as well. He still (3rd grade) read "on" when it is "no" and confuses "b" and "d". Earlier this year, this problem really threw me for a loop. Our frustration level (mine AND his) was near the breaking point.

Thankfully, he is at a very small private school where one of the teachers (pastor's wife) is a certified reading instructor. She has been working with him very hard. She actually has another little boy there with the same problem. These two (my son and the other little boy) have their own specialized reading class. I am seeing loads of progress although reading is still a struggle for him and he hates it.

Why can't our public schools do these things as well? I am just at a loss. I know that the large class sizes are a big problem and yes, the distraction is terrible for an ADHD child. The public school's answer, in my experience, is to stick them in a "special ed" program. It would be great if I could believe that these programs are actually geared toward individualized instruction and working to improve the student's abilities. Sadly, I do not believe that. Having taught in the public schools, I know that these programs are, more often than not, geared toward lowering expectations for those children. And I refuse to let that happen to my son.

I wish everyone could send their child to the school that is best for him or her. I am fortunate (although if I couldn't afford it, I would probably be picking up cans in my spare time to raise money for tuition). The only other thing is that I wish their were alternative private schools that were not run by religious organizations. Why couldn't some parent who chooses to homeschool their child also choose to accept other people's children to educate as well?

My son has Aspergers and has an IEP and gets special reading instruction as well as attending a speech class where he works on pragmatic speech/social skills.

In PA the public schools are required to provide this education for him, however private and parochial school are exempt.

I am also an active parent who participates in my son's education.

Maybe I gave up on them too quickly for my son. One day, we will have to give them another try - maybe as early as next year - because that is what he wants to try.

We sent him off to kindergarten expecting great things. He did not perform. His teacher said he was just immature. I asked about ADHD. She still said "No, he's just immature." Finally, she said "Well, maybe."

We couldn't get an appointment to have him tested by the "recognized authority", so we made an appointment with a psychologist who "doesn't usually prescribe medication." After a half a day of testing, he said "I don't usually prescribe medication BUT, when there is this much discrepancy between intelligence and performance...." So, we agonized over what to do for a little longer. (I was against the medication). When we finally chose to try the medication, I found that I HAD to go to the "recognized authority" to do all the testing all over again (so my doctor said).

By this time, the school year was almost over. At the end of the year, we made the decision to keep in kindergarten for a second year. He could not even write his own name legibly. He learned virtually nothing.

The next year, we send him off again. His teacher turned out to be a new graduate who expected to teach 6th grade but ended up in kindergarten. She was not especially happy to be there. She also had an unusual number of "rowdy little kids" in her classroom of 25.

On the first day of school, I explained to her that Justin has ADHD. I told her that we preferred to give him his medication in the middle of the morning so that he would still eat lunch. (The appetite supressant properties would not take enough effect for him to not eat.)

On the second day of school, she said that she thought it would be better for him to take his medication first thing because they do lots of important work in the morning. So, I said okay.

Being unable to make it up there on the third day, I sent my 10th grade daughter (who also attended this school) to check on him. The teacher told my daughter, on the third day of the new school year, that "Either he will fail again or he will be passed because of his age and still not know anything."

I was furious. After three days of school, she has determined that my son could not learn. I went to the principal. I explained that I could not allow my son to not get an education. I told her I could not allow him to not learn what he needed AGAIN. Her response? "Well, do you know that you have his medication regulated so that it actually controls him?" I told her that I would not play games with his medication either. I absolutely refused to run to the doctor every other week to increase his medication so that he could sit in their classrooms like a zombie.

Friday, I withdrew him from the school. I told them that I may be proved wrong, but I choose to believe that my son can cope with his problems without having to be controlled by medication.

So far (after three and half years), like I said, it is a constant struggle, but we have not increased his medication continually. He is a whiz at math and science. Although reading is a struggle for him, he IS learning. We have to work hard on spelling - I think that ties to the reading problems. And, of course, English is a job because of the reading difficulties as well.

Maybe, if we do go back to public school, I will be pleasantly surprised and they will have a real "special ed" program that does more than write IEPs that lower expectations. But, like I said, I taught in that school and my experience was that their primary purpose was to take away many of the requirements on what students were expected to learn.

In fact, you are supposed to actively participate in the IEP. I didn't sign off on my son's IEP until it dealt exactly with what he needed. If you feel you are not represented properly you can also get a state child advocate who will come to meetings with you (this may depend upon your state's laws).

My son is doing much better with therapy and although it was recommended that he take medication, we do not medicate him at all. We tried it and we didn't like who he was on the medication. He does "stim" in class at times but he has been able to control it and then he let's it out at home...

His Kindergarten teacher was wonderful (he did attend pre-school).
His First Grade teacher and Gym Teacher were the ones who noticed some problems which helped to lead to his diagnosis.
His Second Grade teacher was a bit rigid, but once she understood the disorder and the problems she was more understanding (I gave her some leverage...I don't expect people to come to understand these issues quickly.)
His Third Grade teacher is working with me to help him and his Speech Therapist is really good. He also gets therapy at home.

"stim"-ing is a Self-Stimulatory behavior...for example excessive blinking, rocking in his chair, or making hand motions.

teacher. Of course, I was in the upper grades too. It may be different in the lower grades.

I guess I shouldn't be so hard on my public school. I never actually gave the program a chance b/c I had the pre-concieved notion from my experience as a teacher. We never entered the special-ed program and we never had an IEP. Like I said, we took him out after three days of that second year of kindergarten.

I still struggle some with the medication issue as well. For now, I do feel that it is a benefit to him while at school. He doesn't take medication at home, on the weekends, or during vacations. And I continue to believe that, eventually, we will be comfortable with doing away with it entirely.

In his case, we are working to teach concentration and "focus". Those are his main problems. For homework, we have to be in an environment totally void of external noise and stimulation. We have to make sure he can't even hear a hint of the television. Even then, during our reading, I have to constantly remind him to focus on what we are doing. Typically, he reads a sentence and then goes off on a tangent discussing some issue relating to what he just read. I have to say "Okay, let's keep reading" at least a hundred times.

Many people have told me that I'm wrong about my impression of the special ed system though. That helps me feel better about the day when I will have to put him back there and deal with it.

This is going to be an interesting issue for the next few years. There is no definitive liberal or repub stance on this. I homeschool for the diversity, but it's not necessarily cultural. My kids do not spend all day with their peer group. They have younger, older and adult friends. They also have their own interests that they can follow. I think of Dale Chihuly (did I spell that right?). Who did blown glass before him? We also do academics, but it's tutoring, more than teaching. It's a misnomer that a trained teacher is the ideal for a child. My husband is a certified High School teacher and doesn't do a lot with the kids. His master's degree is in physics, but the rest of the teachers at his school got their MDs in "education". It appeared to be a crowd-control degree, no real learning or education in their subject area. Right now my reason for homeschooling is history, logic and Latin. We're studying the Crusades and we'll continue chonological hisory to the present. And my kids will learn to think and reason and articulate, not so much from me, but from books that take us step-by-step toward these goals. I hope to get to Gandi and Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandella with a good sense of how they were so effective. (Some of this stuff is for me, too.) I keep telling my 13 year old that someone has to give Karl Rove a challenge and I don't see that caliber of logic and what? knowledge?, creative resistence? leadership? coming from my local school district.

seem to have a liberal or conservative position. It can be argued for and against by either side. I do find it odd that most people assume I'm a conservative because I homeschool though.

This was the best part:

I am not anti-teacher, nor am I necessarily anti-school. I am pro-homeschooling for my family

Sums it up perfectly for me. It gets tiresome to constantly defend your choices to people who have no firsthand experience with homeschooling.

My three older kids all attended pubic schools with advancing 'degrees' of rotten scenarios...
Two younger kids are homeschooling -for all the reasons you stated.

I often suggest this to those who accuse me of all matter of nasty reasons for homeschooling:

Go spend a week in a public school. -Not as a grandparent to share a meal in a cafeteria for one hour. Not as a visitor on a walk- through for 20 minutes. Sit in a classroom day in and day out for a week. Ride that bus for an hour every day.
Then come to me and tell me I am depriving my kids of 'a wonderful experience'.
Let's talk apples and apples. I am sick of hearing about how much YOU loved school when you were a kid. That atmosphere does NOT exist anymore.

-Jude

Did you run for school board?
Did you attend school board meetings?
Did you write letters to the district and perhaps the local papers?

There are good public schools out there but they exist in communities where the parents and the citizens take an active interest and where they participate in the process.

How do we inspire parents in communities where they are not taking an active interest? Where parents are working two and three jobs to survive. Where kids don't have good extracurricular activities from which to choose. Oh yeah, get rid of the republicans. ;-)

We have NO parental involvement or support in my school. I have kids who don't even get their basic needs met at home, and yet I am supposed to teach them. It's rough. Many of the parents of my students are illiterate. Many are on drugs. Many of my student's parents were just kids when they started having children. The schools can't change without society changing.

pres of the PTA
board meeting after board meeting
letter after letter
took on the Cubmaster's job in this community when no one's dear old dad would step up- I'm a mom. btw.
formed parents' discussion groups.
I even got a job as an aide for a few years so I was in building every freakin day.



you have the right idea- in the wrong time, I'm afraid.
it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse

them. I reinforce or expand the information the school provides.

I hope you don't assume that parents who send kids to public school don't work with their children at home. I take my children to museums, zoos and historical sites. I read to them daily and I prompt them to ask questions about their environment and I ask them questions as well.

I understand your reasoning and respect your decision to homeschool but there are people who are not qualified to teach their children at home.

I know that public schools get all the criticism but I think that really is what you put into any education that makes the difference. A love for education is something we must instill in our children.

Personally from the experience I have had with homeschooling, charter schools and cyber schools I think that it is a way for people to ignore or run from problems in their community. For example there is a school district near where I live where there is no one running for school board because no one cares. The community is depressed and it needs good leadership but in an enviroment where everyone "looks out for themself", the community as a whole falls into decline.

If I found myself in circumstances which required me to send my children to school I would be doing the same thing. Most parents I know are involved in their children's education to some degree or another, though I realize there are parents out there who are not paying attention. My parents had to be very involved because of the hits my education took whenever we relocated courtesy of the U.S. Army.

Homeschooling isn't necessarily a situation of everyone "looking out for themselves." In fact, I don't think homeschooling can be successfully accomplished as a solo endeavor. I'm fortunate to have a vibrant and supportive homeschooling community. I think that's key as well.

parents give their kids. Unfortunately though, out of necessity or laziness, or apathy, a lot of parents expect the public schools to do it all.

:)

I'm SO sick of the false meme that "public schools are failing".

In most cases, that's simply not true.

I'm not going to argue with you about whether schools are failing or not. Some are, some aren't. Unless you want to debate a specific school that argument gets a little bogged down.

However, homeschooling is most definitely under attack. Some states are experiencing it worse than others, but assuming those in power right now are all for it is absolutely false.

I'm sure you'll manage. Those of us who depend on the public schools have nobody in our corner but the teacher's unions, and they can't even get themselves decent pay and benefits.

How many single moms working as waitresses can homeschool? How many couples holding down three jobs?

I barely get 5 hours sleep a night as it is, and we are just treading water financially. Don't even own a home. There is no feasible way we could homeschool even if we wanted to. If you can live on the income of one spouse, you are WEALTHY in today's America.

Don't insult the rest of us by refusing to acknowledge your privilege.

extremely mindful of the fact that there are countless families out there who would love to choose this lifestyle and do not have the luxury. But I also know families who make do with a hell of a lot less in order to give this type of education to their children. Parents working opposite shifts who hardly see one another. Single parent co-ops to arrange for child care coverage and participation. Primary educating parent working out of the home rather than outside the home. A couple leaving the corporate world and starting their own business to have control over their hours. Grandparents pitching in.

The misperception I think you are buying into is that homeschooling is reserved to families who can make payments on their new car AND have a parent stay home. The reality is much much different. We're hanging on to that ten year old car, entertain at home rather than eat out regularly, have swap meets for getting Christmas presents rather than buying new toys, shop at Good Will for our clothing and children's consignment shops for theirs. The face of homeschooling isn't exactly equivalent to Andover Academy so stop insulting my intelligence.

But the cost of living in San Francisco is very high. No possibility of EVER affording a house here. But we stay for the kids' sake because the public schools here have EXCELLENT bilingual Japanese/English education programs and J/E bilingual preschools that are not available in other cities.

So we sacrifice for our kids' education, big time. We could have easily bought a modest home by now in Texas. Our priority was an environment where our kids could socialize with Japanese and American kids, and thus not let go of their Japanese language ability. It's very important to us that they be able to freely choose to live in either country.

And I never said anything about Andover - that's super-rich. 40% of Americans do not own their home. (us included) 40% have no health insurance (us included). We don't get any government benefits at all, BTW. It's nice to know that you're frugal, but I get a bit tired of "middle-class" (usually with a family income of $50K - Wealthy!) folks crying about how tough it is to juggle the mortgage, payments on the late-model SUV, kids' ballet & soccer, etc. I wish I had such problems.

Oh, and we have a paid-off 1995 Escort Wagon, but we use bicycles and transit as much as possible.

sound like you are sacrificing your children's education. The same cannot be said of the schools here. I don't see what the problem is. We make different choices based on our own circumstances.

And please don't put words in my mouth or make assumptions about me. You assume I'm "middle class" and that I'm bitching about juggling the mortgage, car payments and my kids' extra-curricular activities when I've done no such thing.

You are the one that drew that conclusion with respect to homeschooling, not me. There are rich and poor families in the public school system, there are rich and poor families homeschooling and there are super rich, rich, middle class and even poor families sending their kids to private schools. Don't judge me based on the educational choice I've made for my children until you have more information and I won't do the same of you. Fair?

IE, we could have a better standard of living in another city, but we choose to stay here for the schools. We also make sacrifices of our time and money to tutor them and send them to extra lessons on Saturdays.

And I'm making no assumptions about you. But I believe that to be the case for the majority of homeschoolers I've known. I have no idea where you are financially, I'm sure that a significant minority of homeschoolers are poor or working-class.

But the fact remains that most ARE better-off than average, and the same could be said for private-school parents. The point of the statement was not to make a judgment about you or your economic standing - it's that the white, middle-class (read: wealthy) people who make up the majority of homeschoolers have little to worry about in terms of the government taking away their right to homeschool. The government always looks out for the interest of white homeowners in the suburbs.

On the other hand, there IS a concerted and continuing effort underway to destroy and defund the public schools (and I won't even get into the corporate infiltration of the public schools)

If there was an initiative on the ballot to ban homeschooling, I'd vote against it. I think it's a fine choice. (But I just don't see this massive anti-homeschooling sentiment you complain about.) Your son is obviously well-informed about the political system, and he's probably a whiz at math and spelling, too. But there may be areas in which he suffers in comparison to his public school counterparts - only time will tell.

:wtf:

Is statistically in the top 30 or 40% of income earners. Relatively speaking that's wealthy. Most families need 2 incomes just to scrape together $50K.

But the fact that you do have the the time and resources to homeschooling does make you a sort of "elitist" in the working poor people's perspective. I hope you can understand how one could feel envy? Perhaps we could get a community of home School moms to help the single mom waitresses give their child a decent education?

Nope, we'll just have to participate in our public school efforts more zealously if we don't want to realize * vouchers, Christian schools, sub standard public schools, and for the fortunate folks who can afford it, home school or private academy.

My homeschool group has two single moms. One is an artist who waitresses to supplement her income and the other is a legal secretary. We help with the kids so they can do this.

Yes, I am well aware that there are people who would like to and can't. Didn't I already say that?

and I homeschool. It is indeed a great priviledge to be able to do this, but it is also a choice and a great sacrifice. Right now, I am behind on all of my bills and don't know how in heavens I'll buy Christmas presents. Our standard of living would be much higher if the kids were in school, as I would be able to get a "real" job and not just scrape by. I'd also have a lot more me-time and adult contact(both of which I desperately need as a single parent). All that said, I *love* homeschooling and wouldn't have it any other way. I love who my kids are growing to be. I don't think they would have the freedom to be their unique selves if they had to contend with the toxic environment of the public school. I agree we all have to work to improve the public schools, but I won't sacrifice my own children's emotional health for it.
Just my 2 cents (and probably not worth even that much!)
Diane

For many, it's a matter of priorities.

Sure, in the sense that they're not a single parent and have that option available could qualify them as "privileged", but I feel it's more of a case of advance planning for the type of family situation you'd like to have. The bottom could drop out at any moment due to divorce or death - and I suppose that because it hasn't could also qualify them as "privileged" - but when we start labeling people as privileged because they haven't been through divorce or the death of a spouse, something is wrong. We all know well enough that the world isn't that black and white.

Now - on the planning for family situation - that is not an insult to single parents who either chose that for themselves or ended up there by circumstance. I was raised by a single mother who I love and respect very much. I am *thankful* that I have never been in that situation, but much of this has to do with choices. Not all, but a lot. I say that not to say that people in bad situations made bad choices - often times we in life are victims of circumstance - but we shouldn't degrade people who have made what they feel are positive choices for themselves.

I am a stay-at-home parent because it's the way my family has chosen to parent. It is something we both considered non-negotiable. We can survive on one income because we have for years - the biggest struggle you will find in surviving on one income is the transitional period of adjusting down from two incomes to one. To us, it's a priority and more important than money so we sacrificed other things so that I could stay at home with my kids when they were little. I'll likely be going back to work next year now that my kids are both in school full-time, because we're far from well-off. We live a very working-class lifestyle and that is more than FINE with me, because the trade-off is worth it. We struggle for a few years (and believe me there have been many periods of struggle), but in our minds these are years we can't get back so it was worth it in the end. These are choices we made for our family - it's not the right choice for everyone and I understand that. I don't judge anyone who choses differently.

we were renting an apartment. Seven years later we still don't own our home.

When I started homeschooling I did quit my minimum wage job and we cut expenses to the bone. We found that we were spending more on public schooling and childcare and gas and work clothes than I was actually bringing home after taxes. We did without EVERYTHING...we never ate out and we never went to movies (I do mean never) for several years until my husband's job began to pay him in the middle 20s range and we could finally afford to pay all of our utilities bills, rent, and food each month.

Now that both of my kids are teens they take enough responsibility for their own learning that I don't have to be home all day every day. We now have our own business and the kids work in it several hours each week in addition to their lessons.

My daughter will graduate this year at the ripe old age of 16. She is finalizing plans to start her first business. My son is a freshman at 13 and plans to attend college. Both have active social lives and many friends of all ages. My daughter dances and is the assistant coach of a summer swim league she used to compete in. My son still competes in the same swim league and is learning computer programming.

We now make (total household income) in the mid to high 30s. We rent a run down old house and drive a 10 year old car with no air conditioning and a short that makes the lights turn themselves on during warm weather.

We didn't get a dime from the Bush "tax cut" and I don't have to give a moment's thought to the Alternative Minimum Tax, but I'll let my husband and kids know that you feel we are wealthy. They'll get a good laugh from that one.

Most homeschoolers are POOR, and there are tons of minorites doing it too!

So the government is bound to ban it any day now!


Honestly, I'm talking about statistics and people try to disprove the statistics with their own personal stories.


Most people who eat caviar on a regular basis are rich too, but if it really mattered to you, a car mechanic could afford to buy some every now and then too.

Most people who eat collard greens on a regular basis are probably black - but I like collard greens too! That doesn't change the stats!

for your stats.

You seem to have something personal against homeschooling. I don't have time or energy for pointless barb-trading.

Try re-reading my post. Nowhere did I state that all homeschoolers were poor. What I did was point out that your sweeping generalizations were not necessarily true. You keep posting absolutes and claiming they are fact without listing any sources.

If you list your sources, we can talk, otherwise, you can keep belittling ideas and experiences that don't fit what you believe by yourself.

Have a nice day.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/HomeSchool/chara.asp

If you go through it you will see that homeschool parents are MUCH more likely to be a two-parent, one-income family than overall families, while the the income levels for homeschoolers are only slightly more affluent than the overall population. But if you take into account the fact that homeschoolers are more likely to have a single income great enough to support the family, and MUCH less likely than the population at large to live in cities, where the cost of living is much higher, it translates to a significantly higher level of financial comfort than the population at large.

But my basic point remains - it is not a feasible solution for MOST families, especially those of us struggling just to keep afloat. Only 1.6~1.9% of families opt for it.

And the other point remains that nobody is trying to destroy homeschooling. You have a defensive attitude because somebody said that homeschoolers were all fundies. I didn't say that. I just said to count your blessings because you're fortunate enough to afford it, nobody's out to destroy it, as they are the public schools, and relatively few have attacked it. Including myself. I have nothing against homeschooling. But I can't help but be annoyed at people who come on whining about imaginary persecution when a lot of them are in an enviable position.

Your source is the U.S. Dept of Ed?

'nuff said.

You ask this person for a link and then denigrate the one provided...what on earth are you thinking?

to tell the truth.

I'm also thinking that it is not even possible for the dept of ed to have or give out accurate statistics about homeschooling because not all homeschoolers are required to register, so where would accurate info come from.

There have been studies conducted comparing homeschoolers and public and private schools students--real studies with control groups and comparisons by demographics, etc.

That being said, I admit that I should have posted this response instead of the one that I did. I apologize.

Politics is the sort of thing that sets people off, me included
(more so in fact on occasion).....As a former DP manager of a school district with a payroll of almost 300 million I am very, very aware of much that is wrong with our education systems.

As to your citing (or actually failing to cite) "studies". People are required to account for their childrens absence from public schools you know. It is against the law to fail to educate your children, so statistics really are available. It's a sad fact of our times that one may create "studies" to show prejudged "facts".

That being said Ive little against the subject of Homeschooling other than it being a wedge issue and that it is being used by some to avoid the teaching of evolution and many such factoids.....Also Ive been a fighter my whole life and believe firmly in the importance of a strong public school system here in America, and the flaws of our current system should make parents want to fight harder to make it better not leave it in droves.

homeschoolers are not required to register with the state. In rural areas of middle America it is common for homeschoolers to not officially register with anyone (local schools or state). I have seen this first hand and, weirdly, that trend seems more common at the extremes of the economic spectrum (lower and upper class income families). The middle classers seemed to be the ones most often making sure their paperwork was in order with the state.

The studies I refered to were not "created" to show anything. They were done more than a decade ago to see if homeschoolers suffered socially or academically compared to their public and private schooled peers.

The "fact" is that homeschoolers come from all walks of life, just like public and private school kids. And that they match or outperform their peers socially and academically, even and especially when demographics are considered.

Re: leaving the public schools in droves. Of course that is not actually happening. The vast majority of children in America are educated in public schools. The meteoric rise in homeschooling doesn't begin to make a dent in the public school population, and their have always been private schools.

It is important, however, to address this issue. I believe it is wrong to expect someone to show support for public schools by keeping their child in a detrimental situation. In our case, our genius IQ kids were bored all day and learning nothing (and I do mean nothing) for multiple years. Furthermore, as jewish children in a predominantely Christian area, they felt marginalized and belittled. My husband and I worked hard with those schools for 5 years. At the end of that period, we found that we were the parents of bitter, angry children who kept getting stomach aches when it was time to go to school.

We began homeschooling and within 3 months we had happy, symptom-free children who were eager to learn again. That was seven years ago.

My best friend sends three bright daughters to public school. They are Christian and thriving in the public school environment. Each family has to decide for themselves what school environment works for their child(ren). Supporting public schools doesn't mean forcing your children to attend a school that is bad for them.

Finally, it is important to remember that public schools are a rather recent thing. Our founding fathers did not attend public schools. I think public schools are a good thing, but I think the system is in need of broad reform, which is a topic for another post.

The need of public school reform is exactly the issue.

I can only speak to California law, wherein it is necessary to account for your child's education, and where every child not in a public school lessens the monetary support for that school.

I cannot comment upon your studies until Ive seen them, just as I will not comment on studies that have plainly shown so-called Voucher Schools to be failing in droves and providing poorer quality education that public school alternatives. (OK so I just did)

The realities of a home schooled education will not manifest themselves for a decade or so, with your own kids and their peers, until their interactions in society are available for studies and there is enough data FOR such studies. Will they be successful as adults because they possibly missed much socialization opportunities that public schools provide? We don't know.

Not much point to continuing this debate, obviously other than to say that I am not against your right to home school but I am against many of your allies in this issue.

Also I am and always have been a fighter. As a single parent I had little time but attended PTA meetings, met with my kids teachers and principals and engaged in the process. I did not desert the ship because I saw flaws, I worked to make those flaws disappear.
To take this analogy a bit further I detest many policies of this nation but I am not leaving it.

I share your view on vouchers. Bad idea all the way around.

But I have to disagree with this:

"The realities of a home schooled education will not manifest themselves for a decade or so, with your own kids and their peers, until their interactions in society are available for studies and there is enough data FOR such studies. Will they be successful as adults because they possibly missed much socialization opportunities that public schools provide? We don't know."

Actually, the modern homeschooling movement began in the 60s and 70s, so we do know what happens and studies have had enough data.

Homeschooled students enter "adult" society just fine. Some go on to Ivy League schools and do well there (something that just doesn't happen at my local public school system and, frankly, won't occur with my homeschooled kids either).

There is no evidence of "missed socialization opportunities." None.

We homeschool. I work from home, LeftyDad gets a lousy wage but works long hours to help make ends meet. We certainly don't own a home, we have one seven year old car. Until recently, we were on foodstamps.

If I was willing to subject myself to the corporatist, developmentally inappropriate and generally spirit-crushing "education" our tax dollars already pay for, we could have more and nicer things.

I know single moms who homeschool, broke-as-hell families homeschooling multiple special needs kids, homeschoolers of color (who have more incentive than anyone to keep their kids far far away from the public schools,) moms sacrificing sleep to run their home businesses so they can afford to homeschool.

Keep your bias to yourself, please.

Financially, we're pretty comfortable; and we HS. Not wealthy, but comfortable enough that I don't have to work for my family to maintain a relatively cozy standard of living on my husband's income. There. I said it. And I'll agree that it's probably true of the majority of HSers--though not of the vast majority--just as it's true that the majority (though not the vast majority) of HSers are HSing for religious reasons (which, btw, isn't the case for us).

But the 'starving artist' dad of one of my son's HSing friends, who works 2 low-paying jobs so that his wife can stay home full-time to educate their 3 kids, isn't 'comfortably' off. Nor is the single mother who realized that, because of the hours she works, HSing has actually allowed her to spend more time with her son. Nor are any of the half dozen or so other 'low-income' families in the various HS groups I'm a member of.

So please don't insult those of us who are actually actively involved in HSing communities--especially those who are not 'privileged'--by making the assumption that the kinds of situations you describe are so limited as to be insignificant.

x

My wife and I spend an hour a day each helping our son with his homework. Plus she drills him with Japanese and math flash cards, AND he attends Japanese language school all day every Saturday.

in School. I too tire of the misconceptions surrounding the "reasons" people Homeschool.

There are "fundies" who do so for reasons that differ from my own, but even many of them don't feel that time in school is time well spent.

I believe in public school, I wish to strengthen the public school system, but FOR NOW I choose to Homeschool my daughter because the environment was "overwhelming" for her. I have nothing against those who choose to take advantage of the public school system, I simply choose NOT to at this time.

I posted a while back about a tic disorder she has had. Well it's nearly gone after pulling her from School. All kids are not alike, and some have needs that can't be met in a typical school setting ...

Thanks for the thread :hi:

I was just in shock that a high school senior wouldn't know those things. And we're not talking about a stupid kid either.

Really what precipitated the thread were the comments on "Morning Sedition" which flat out stated that all homeschoolers were doing so to protect their children from horrible things like evolution. It just sets my teeth on edge.

other children socially and professionally? You folks are cool but don't make us "go nuts". More than anything we should not wish for our children to speak exotic languages or converse with psychics, but be happy with OTHER average kids. The socialization process, when properly monitored is best achieved though education and team sports. Gee it's the best time of your life - share it with other kids not learning excessively. - just my opinion.

the socialization process.

In our community, there is baseball, football, basketball, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, 4-H.

We have to go about 10 miles for soccer.

people will listen to me. I am not anti-teacher or anti-school. I have made an educational choice based on the circumstances and needs of my family and my family alone. I couldn't care less what choice another parent makes. I will continue to advocate for the right to homeschool and for improvement in public schools.

Yes, homeschooled children may try out for public school sports teams. We pay property taxes and support the local school system just as other residents do. Were my child to make the team I would pay for uniforms and equipment just as the other parents must do. But there are also plenty of community leagues. My son plays soccer in a league with over 900 other children who come from a variety of educational experiences.

You'll have to explain your comment about exotic languages and conversing with psychics. I'm afraid you've lost me there. What does that have to do with anything?

As for socialization, I can't agree with you. I see great value in team sports and my children play team sports, but "socialization" is not best achieved that way. Particularly for kids who are not interested in it. What about drama club, debate team, volunteering at the hospital, church choir, Girl Scouts, etc? Socialization is best achieved by participating actively in the life of our communities. For some, that includes the school setting and for some it doesn't.

Also, that poster seemed to imply that "home-schooling" (or private school in my case) was geared toward intellectual superiority by saying that our children need to socialize with "average ordinary" children.

That's hilarious. My child is definitely average and definitely ordinary. He is a very social child (must get it from my husband) and his life more or less revolves around around playing and wanting to go to someone's house or have someone come to ours. I have to force him to concentrate on learning at the appropriate times.

If our choice for their education makes them learn more, what is wrong with that?

Tuesday). First thing out of his mouth Saturday morning: "Can we call Jonathon? (his cousin)" I already told him we're taking this weekend off from visiting. They are rowdy, eat everything in the house, make a big mess, drink up all the cokes, and generally are just a big task to keep up with. They also don't get enough sleep and, when it comes homework time, he is always tired from the weekend. This is true - no matter if it's Jonathon or someone else who comes over. I'm just ready for a break - not that I don't love them to death.

Last night, there were five kids running around in the yard (my daughter has a trailer across the yard and she's very social too - has kids over to visit my niece who lives with her). Screaming - once, I got excited and ran out b/c they were yelling "Someone help us!" They were playing - not sure what. The three boys somehow managed to FALL in the horse pen. Mud EVERYWHERE. They had to strip the clothes off one and let him wear Effie's clothes.

So, he had his socialization last night. But, still, he started first thing this morning and hasn't stopped - every hour on the hour since.

I sound terrible, don't I? But, I'm just in the mood for some peace and quiet for a change.

Someone mention the Japanese Language and I thought to myself that Spanish is the "most useful" second language in the good ole' USA.

Again, the working poor will envy you. Some will resent the fact that you are able to afford to shield your child from daily interaction with other children within your community. If you feel no guilt, I should not judge you harshly. I do honestly hope you allow children to begin public school no later than 5th or 6th grade if they are not disabled in any unusual way. Why? It eases the shock. Nothing teaches you more about survival and adaption in the cruel, hard world ... or is a richer learning experience with proper parents/supervison that *public* Junior High and High School.

is doing so through the public school system. That wasn't a homeschooler who mentioned it. For the record, my husband is fluent in Spanish though I could stand to brush up. Our children are already learning Spanish. Does that make you feel better?

I am not shielding my children from daily interaction with other children in my community. Where the hell did you get that idea? From the post where I said my son was out playing with the neighborhood kids for over three hours a day or the one where I said he played on a soccer team, participated in a community choir and was a member of a homeschool group?

I get the feeling you are behaving haughty at this point. Perhaps my empathy for those who don't have the resources or the time (working class poor)other than public schools not an issue in your conscious?

This is exactly what the republicans refer to as "elites" because at every opportunity you separate yourself from the rest of us.

No, your children will NOT adjust as well socially that is a fact. If you wish to believe otherwise, be my guest but the research does NOT support it. <and for heaven sakes let's not spat of damn statistics>

I'm also fluent in Spanish but feel no need to tout either my husband nor my daughter's intelligence since I can only speak for myself.

It's cool. Really! But many people will consider you either elitists or fundies ... well unless we experience otherwise in our personal lives.

Peace :-)

All the research I have seen for the last decade shows no difference between homeschooled and public schooled kids.

Oh, wait. That's not exactly true. I saw one study that revealed that homeschooled kids were better adjusted than their peers. But surely that was an anomoly.

If you have comments on my situation, you might want to address them to me.

The Japanese classes are not about what's useful "in the USA". It's about what will be useful to MY kids, who will most likely be moving back to Japan before Bush can draft them for his next murder spree.

but, most honestly, love the country of Panama the best. Salute! You can consider yourself addressed. ;)

while it lasted (seven years). We were a one-income poor household (WAY below poverty levels for my state). We never could afford to buy curriculum materials, but we had the public library. No computer. No internet. We were fundies, I suppose...although, all we would have asked is separation of school/church. We're older now & got all the way to the meat in the milk/meat analogy of the Bible.

We didn't like the socialization offered in school (too competitive, too racist, too authoritarian). So, we had some stubborn self-educating, free-thinking kids to hand over to the public schools by late middle-school. It was hell for all of them and they all ended up in alternative high schools. It's a climate thing.

The socialization argument came up a lot back then (the 80s & 90s) which just made me laugh. My kids lived in public housing -- with about 200 other kids from very diverse backgrounds.

Now that they are college-aged, adults, we talk about the homeschooling days & they are grateful. We had such a good time! They all learned differently, but all learned to be lifelong self-reliant learners. They all entered PS above grade level in skills.

There were lots of reasons to homeschool. My husband worked second-sift (great insurance) and would only see the kids every third weekend if they were in school. So, we opted for HS and more family time when the kids were young. We'd work on school in the morning. Spend time with dad, then do more work at night.

Now, part of my job connects me with lots of alternative school programs & size and personalization make the difference -- we have 60 kids a semester in one program, all coming from other high schools in the city & every single student cites school climate as the reason for leaving/seeking an alternative placement. Once they feel well-placed, they succeed in unexpected ways.

Those of us who fought the hard legislative fight for homeschooling back in the day, do worry that it can be mis-used, but still believe the freedom to choose is important.

You approach it from the viewpoint of what was good about the experience, and I'm with you.

But try to conjure up some imaginary persecution of homeschooling by the dominant culture and you lose me, especially when it's the public schools that are really under the gun.

It was, from time to time, under legislative assault -- where we would have lost legal rights/grounds for homeschooling. Each state is different, but we have very liberal HS laws here in Wisconsin. It took writing, protesting, all the usual to hold onto those rights & back when we were a homeschooling family there were less than 2000 registered with our state Dept. of Public Instruction. Now, there are that many in my school DISTRICT. It's certainly grown & growing.

One benefit of being old is realizing that there is not ONE right way. I'm really glad yours are given bi-lingual opportunities. Mine weren't but have learned when older & some have chosen bi-lingual mates. All of our kids learned to read at home: the oldest with parent-led phonics, the middle taught herself at age 4 -while standing on her head in a favorite corner- using 10-cent basal readers we got at Goodwill, the youngest through 'whole language'. So, I'm convinced that lots and lots and lots of schooling avenues are valid, appropriate and effective. If you were unhappy with your child's placement, though, it would impact the success rate.

btw...we had a really hard time getting 'involved' in our kids' PS when they were older. It seemed parents were welcome to serve popcorn on Fridays, or raise money, but not really engage in the school. We have had no problems being as involved as possible in alternative settings.

I gave one or two of my reasons for homeschooling and indicated it was not an exhaustive list. Our choice was made after two years of research. Our reasons overlap quite nicely. I love homeschooling, it's a blast! I can't imagine doing it if you didn't like it. What would be the point?

If you home school your children, please respond to this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2682213&mesg_id=2682213

That homeschoolers are fundies. A great deal may be, but some certainly are not.

I started researching homeschooling when my kids were still babies. It's not an unusual thing for families who parent in a natural, "attachment" way. Sure, some of these people are religious but more often than not they're more of the "Earth mother" variety.

We opted to send our kids to public school, but we've always said we're homeschooling our public school kids - we feel that inevitably WE'RE the ones responsible for their education.

I have always been more than open to homeschooling full time should the need ever arise - if there is ever a time where I feel that they're not getting a proper education for whatever reason I will not hesitate to do so. So far, they are having an excellent public school experience. I hope it continues.

Anyway, I admire you. Homeschoolers get a lot of flack and there is definitely a stigma.

I just wanted to point out that sometimes other circumstances are involved with the decision to homeschool. Twice in my daughter's young life I've pulled her out of the public school system to homeschool her. The first time was in second grade, and the latest was last year. When she was in second grade she had a teacher that a) either had no time and or b) the resources to give my daughter the education she craved. My daughter could read before she started kindergarten and always has been ahead of her class. Skipping a grade was not an option for us because I feel like emotionally she wouldn't be ready. Also, when she was in second grade we had just moved to a new state that didn't have the same program in school to challenge her. She was bored all the time in school. I'm agnostic, and I did find it challenging to come up with a curriculum for her. Most of the homeschooling curriculums on the market are religious in nature. In third grade, we were living in another state again while I cared for my dying mother so she was placed back in public school. Last year while in 5th grade, she began waking up covered in her own vomit. We took her to numerous doctors and found out she had irritable bowels and depression/anxiety. She almost has no relationship with her biological father and she couldn't seem to get past why he wanted nothing to do with her. Her stepfather, who has been in her life since she was 6 years old wants desperately to adopt her. He is a good man, and she is really lucky to have him. He never calls her step-daughter to anyone. Even so, she needed validation that her biological father found her worthy. There were several instances that we almost ended up taking her to the ER. Luckily, with good doctors and medication we have been able to get this under control. We felt that last year, it would be better to homeschool her for the remainder of the year than send her to public school. We found a curriculum online (Calvert) that was not religious and actually had a placement test. She tested at a 5th grade level for everything but math and in that subject she placed in the 6th grade level. This year, she returned to school and has been making straight As. She reads on a 12th grade level and every single teacher she has said she tested the highest on tests than any of their other students. She has many friends in school and has fit right back in to the public school system. It was never about religion to homeschool her.

now my homeschooled kid is in college and doing brilliantly. He is turning out just fine. Nowadays an education is tough to come by in an ordinary public school. It's too bad--they used to be great back in the sixties and we were competing against the r=Russians and Chinese intellectually. That's all gone now. The kids are just ground out like sausage.

So many colleges today are actively recruiting homeschooled children. It's very encouraging. Best of luck to your kid!

This is a common misconception and one that irks me as well. Both of my children have always been homeschooled a la John Holt rather than a la Michael Farris. Here's an interesting link about adults who were homeschooled:

http://www.unschooling.com/discus/messages/39/39.html

A large homeschooling site for newbies and/or the curious:

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/

and a bit of background info about the late John Holt

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC06/Holt.htm

If it works for you, Best wishes to all those who reap the benefits of homeschooling.

I sincerely hope that it continues to reveal the very best in your childrens' potential.

how do you know he wasn't home schooled as well?

go back to my baking <refrigerator "Ultimate" chocolate chip cookies>

The factions are entrenched and these folks (Home Schooling Parents) are happy with their choice. It's theirs to make. God Bless America and Play Ball, etc..?

His youngest brother is my son's best friend and he mows my yard when I can't around to it. I'll repeat. I know the child. I know his age. I know he's a senior in high school.

perfect american, owns his own business and home schools his kids.

Anyone who homeschools might as well be a Grover Norquists? This is beyond ridiculous folks.