Scary, Scary Bumper Sticker Sighted just outside DC

I'm on my way to a meeting in DC (at a famous gov't building, location undisclosed .... k?). I'm in the slow lane in my trusty 130,000 mile (bought it from my kid) SUV. On the BW Parkway. Just before the split for New York Avenue. Up comes another SUV, same make as mine. Different color.

Plastered with hate filled bumper stickers. The entire rear window is the ol' Stars an' Bars. Lotsa B/C04 crap all over.

BUT ......

On the side window, bigger'n a reg'lar bumper sticker is this one that sez:

Confederate States Of America. Has the Star's 'n' Bars in the middle and the state flags of all the confederate states around the perimeter. Nearby are smaller bumper stickers wit' shit like "The South Will Rise Again" .... "Proud Southerner" .... "Damn the Yankees" (this one was not about baseball) ...... "If Your Heart Ain't in Dixie, Get Your Ass Out" ...... and more.

Same shit on the other side window.

Now, if you don't know about DC, this is not an area where an intelligent racist would feel totally comfortable with such a display. But then, I guess "intelligent racist" is a true oxymoron, huh?

I turn off onto New York Avenue, and he heads south on Kenilworth. IF I were humane, I'd say "I hope he made it safely to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge" ...... but in this case I am not humane. I hope he got his as wiped and his truck stolen.

I was then really pissed. I called Sparkly onnna cell phone and ranted fer about 10 minutes till I calmed down.

The only thing for which I have no tolerance is intolerance.

This country is in for a serious time of it. I have not seen such hate since years and years ago.

:D

Us Yankees are coming down taking over everything and running it right.

The real divide in this nation is urban vs. everyone else.

are the same states that are red

and the plantation owners were rural too
I do believe there is an analogy
the confederate flag waving pick up truck nascar guys

are they all repub - no

we liberals live among these repukes

they don't live among us

.. in the form of stolen elections and the religious shit going on!

The klan should feel right at home in our nation's capitol. As should divorcees, alcoholics, drug addicts, military deserters, corporate criminals and LIARS.

Mo'fo's like this asshole! ;)

i was born in the south, will probably die in the south, my family's been in the south for hundreds of years and i think all this secessionist bullshit is a bunch of bullshit.

andrew jackson had the right idea when he threatened to go down to south carolina and hang their leaders if they seceded. i believe all this neo-southern nonsense started when lbj -- a southerner -- made sure people of every color could vote.

racist idiots have exploited it for the last 40 years and i'm getting sick and tired of those types giving all southerners a bad reputation. they need to get some teeth, get a job, and get an understanding that voting republican hurts them as much as it hurts anyone.

Saw a bumper sticker that said: The day will come when the schools can get all the money they want and the air force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber."

each time I see a United We Stand right next to a confederate battle flag.
Confederate battle flags in general piss me off. Look, guys, it's not even the flag of your treasonous, racist, illegal government. It's the flag you assholes flew when actively engaged in a traitorous military campaign to destroy the United States of America! What in the fucking rings of hell makes you think that you're a patriot if you declare your allegence to an organization that was actively destroying America?

You didn't quote anything even remotely hinting at racism. Even the Confederate flag here was defined clearly as being about a region, not race. Was there an actual hateful slogan anywhere?

Growing up in Mississippi, I had all those slogans and the Confederate flag all over my room, on my book covers. It's just a sense of pride in where you come from, especially in a region where the rest of the nation condescends constantly towards you.

I wouldn't fly the Confederate flag anymore, because of what some have used it for, but if I did, I would put it in a context like your truck buddy did, where it was clearly about the states and the region, not anything else.

I mean, I hate to say it, but aside from "Damn the Yankees," your post was more bigoted than anything you quoted as being on that truck. Tolerance works both ways. You have to tolerate people you feel superior towards, too. You don't have to agree with them, of course.

:shrug:

"Now, if you don't know about DC, this is not an area where an intelligent racist would feel totally comfortable with such a display. But then, I guess "intelligent racist" is a true oxymoron, huh?

I turn off onto New York Avenue, and he heads south on Kenilworth. IF I were humane, I'd say "I hope he made it safely to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge" ...... but in this case I am not humane. I hope he got his as wiped and his truck stolen."

Again, I ask, was their anything remotely racist on the stickers, or was the assumption made that he was a bigot simply because he was a southerner? Because as I said, I'm a southerner, I've flown and waved that flag and meant nothing racist in any way doing it. I wouldn't now, because I've come to a different understanding of the issue. Maybe the guy in the truck hasn't, yet. Maybe he genuinely does see it as a symbol of pride in his home state, and defiance against a nation that calls him a bigot just because of where he's from. Maybe one day he'll understand why it upsets people and quit flying it. Maybe there is not an ounce of racism in him.

Or maybe he's with the KKK. I don't know. But my point is, none of the stickers you quoted is remotely racist, and the flag, while being an offensive symbol to many, has different meanings for some. Much like the American flag now. If someone flies the American flag, can you assume they are a racist, since it has become such a source of identity for the racist Repubs? If not, if you realize some people still fly the Stars and Stripes out of a genuine love for the country, and may not even like Bush, then try to understand that some people fly the Stars and Bars for the same reason.

Because frankly, yes, it is bigoted to assume that someone is a racist because they fly a symbol with many layers, without further evidence. It's called prejudging, and you know what word comes from "prejudging."

It seems to me you're saying it's bigoted to dislike someone displaying a racist symbol, one that offends many people, because we should give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he didn't know...?

He's in DC. I find it unbelievable he hasn't been informed, probably several times a day when he drives that truck.

I'm proud to be from New England, but I have no desire to show that pride with bumperstickers that evoke the civil war ("Yankees Rule" or "We Made Sure The South Can't Rise Again" or whatever).

Surely there are other slogans or symbols of regional pride that aren't in-your-face offensive. A "Georgia Peach" sticker would not cause me to think its owner is a bigot, because this response is *not* about regional pride, or being from the South.

when the Klan and White Power groups STOP flying it, and the NAACP starts flying it, not before.

Until you do, the way this man was described as displaying it, it was clearly about the region, and not about race. If he had ANYTHING remotely racist on his truck, then blast the bastard. But if you, from New England, with no understanding of the complexity of that symbol to a southerner, are simply saying "It's racist because I and my friends have determined it's racist," I'm back to my original statement. That's bigotted.

If you want to call the flag racist, go for it. I consider it racist, and wouldn't fly it. But to jump from there into condemning a person whose motives you know nothing about as racist, that's a different thing altogether. You are no longer judging a symbol, but a person.

A parallel: I have a close friend who wears a cross necklace. To me, the cross is a symbol of persecution, bloodshed and intolerance. To her, it's a symbol of her faith. She's a very kind, peaceful, liberal Christian, and that's what the cross means to her. I still have the same opinion of the symbol, but that doesn't mean I transfer that opinion to her.

You just said that you consider it racist. It is widely seen as a racist symbol, and it is offensive to many people. Listen to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters. Listen to the people who say they are deeply offended by it.

This argument is rather like a white person explaining why the "n" word isn't really a slur, or a male boss telling me why his passes are just friendly, etc. Once it's known that something is hurtful, hostile, and offensive, a person who continues it is being willfully hurtful, hostile and offensive.

Does the truck driver have a right to be that? Sure -- free speech. But as a result, I will make a judgment about him, because it's clear he is perfectly willing to be in-your-face offensive to people.

The cross is not a valid comparison. It's not a loaded symbol of hatred to a large segment of society. A swastika is a better comparison.

"But if you, from New England, with no understanding of the complexity of that symbol to a southerner, are simply saying "It's racist because I and my friends have determined it's racist," I'm back to my original statement. That's bigotted."

I couldn't disagree more. If there's some complexity my New England mind doesn't grasp, it's one a huge number of people don't grasp either. And what I'm hearing you say is that there's a defense in: "It's NOT racist because I and my friends have determined it's NOT racist." It doesn't work that way. By that logic, a person could be as offensive to women or minorities or gays as they care to be, but anyone who considers them a jerk as a result is "bigotted" -- simply because the person being offensive insists that they aren't. The proof is in the perception and the reaction of those who are offended.

as I said, "If you want to call the flag racist, go for it. I consider it racist, and wouldn't fly it. But to jump from there into condemning a person whose motives you know nothing about as racist, that's a different thing altogether. You are no longer judging a symbol, but a person."

I meant the title of my last post to say just what I've been saying, that you haven't proven that the man displaying the symbol considers it a racist symbol.

You haven't proven that he flew the flag specifically to be racist. Nothing on his truck indicated that except YOUR interpretation of his motives.

You compare it to the Swastika, because you don't like my comparison, which means my comparison must have meant something. So I'll stick the the Swastika. There is a monastery in Germany that uses the Swastika as its symbol, and has for hundreds of years. It is a cross, after all, it is nothing more than another Christian symbol. This monastery is not being anti-semetic or pro-Nazi doing it, but this symbol has been theirs for hundreds of years, and they won't change it simply because Hitler corrupted it.

Thus with the flag. You go on about majorities-- tha majority see it this way, so it must be so. (Just as the majority voted for Bush and approved the Iraqi invasion.) But the majority in the South do not view it that way. Polls and elections have demonstrated that even blacks in the south are split on the issue, that a large percentage, sometimes a majority, don't see the flag as always a racist symbol. They see it a symbol of the South's unique heritage. That doesn't mean slavery and racism to most. That means magnolia trees, front porches with rocking chairs, big yellar dogs, a southern drawl, country music, pickup trucks, NASCAR, warm weather, grits, you name it.

Thanksgiving is coming up. It memorializes the Pilgrims-- a group of graverobbing murderers who managed to befriend one tribe. Columbus Day memorializes a child rapist who deliberately murdered and enslaved an island of 8 million, and inadvertently wiped out a continent. Christmas and Easter honor a religion that slaughtered millions. Do I condemn everyone who celebrates these holidays because I see a truth about them that they don't? Would I be a better person for saying "I hope all Christians die before the make the George Washington Bridge, because of what their holiday means to me?"

I grew up a Southerner. I've seen what Northern arrogance and superiority are like from that side. I've heard Neil Young lecture "Southern Man" when many southern men were trying to change what was happening. It is the exact, specific reason in my opinion that I am so far to the left, that I am such an aggressive opponent of racism in any form. I've seen what it's like to be oppressed by a majority that is so sure it is right that it can't even hear my voice, and I can thus extend that understanding. That's the attitude you are displaying now. Your opinion is right, this man in the truck (and mine) is wrong without thought or consideration on your part. I repeat, that's bigotry. That's racism. That's prejudice. (And notice, I'm talking about your assumption, I'm not calling you a racist, bigot, etc.-- just the assumption you are making).

I've displayed that symbol in the past, so that makes me a racist. Most of the people I have loved in my life have displayed that symbol at some time or another. It was my school symbol. Me and a black roommate of mine used to wave it at football games. So we are racists, in your mind, without any question, without any greater understanding of why we did it. I'm sure Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton have waved Confederate Flags, and have attended state ceremonies where those flags were displayed. So they are racist. You are condemning a lot of people based on your feelings about a symbol, without knowing ANYTHING about the people displaying that symbol, except that they refuse to be ashamed of where they are from, and refuse to see things your way.

I understand very clearly what your position is (the flag represents a region and not a race) and can fully and honestly understand and respect it. Kinda the same as if I put an Italian flag on my car.

But if I were to put a Nazi German flag on my car, I suspect some people would take offense. Of course the swastika was co-opted from Native American culture.

And so has the Star and Bars been co-opted. Like it or not, fair or not, it has become a symbol of racism. Remember, during the primaries, when Howard Dean made that remark about pickups with Confederate flags. We know what he meant. And he wasn't trying to be racist in any way. But we also recall Al Sharpton's saying "You can't bring the Confederate flag to the table of brotherhood" (or something quite close to that).

I lived many years in the south. Two years in Charleston, SC, which remains my absolutely favorite city in the US, by the way. Three years in Chattanooga, TN. Three years in Memphis. Two years in Durham, NC. Twenty two years in Maryland. While I am not a Southerner by birth, more of my adult life has been in the south than in Connecticut, where I was born.

So yeah, I understand what you're saying. But the Confederate flag *is* a de facto symbol of racisim. Sorry ..... it just is.

So that's why I took this truck's "decorations" to be racist.

But you didn't read my post, or if you did, you didn't understand it.

Try reading my other post, the followup to the first response. Maybe that will help you get it.

We here in California, and all the other "Yankee" states sure could put all that tax money we're wasting on subsidies for those ungrateful, bigotted, poverty-ridden states to use for our own!
That Dixienut better understand what he's wishin' for!
Were it not for the "Yanks", they'd still be stumblin' in the cold, thick sludge to the outhouse behind their shabby-sheds for a wizz!
For our part, I've paid year-to-date over $13,000 dollars in Federal taxes alone--NOT counting Social Security deductions!
I'd sure want to see that money invested in Oregon, or Maine, or California even!
We just passed--overwhelmingly, mind you--Prop 71 which would fund stem cell research in California to the tune of $3 billion dollars, starting 2006. We sure could use that Federal tax money to help offset that huge amount for the good of all people...
...and not just ungrateful "Suthners"...

One Flag, English Only, One Bible, My Gun

W is for Winner

There are Americans. . .and then there are Liberals. WTF???

out of DC! :wtf:

if so it may have been Senator Allen.

Now tell us about the racist stuff. I seemed to have missed that. I only seen info about southern pride.

Unless of course you feel that southern = bigotry.

Good God, do you not realize that flag is a racist symbol to many people, and is thus extremely, deeply offensive?

Of COURSE nobody's saying "southern = bigotry." As I said earlier, put a sticker with a Georgia Peach on your truck and there's no problem.

http://truthout.org/docs_01/0148.NAACP.Flag.htm

Kweisi Mfume, President & CEO, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, today said the Confederate flag today represents evil in much the same way as the German Swastika.

(snip)

In the resolution passed last year, the Board of Directors noted that the Confederate flag and emblem is often displayed to make a "statement of public policy that continues to be an affront to the sensibilities and dignity of a majority of Americans."

That's enough to remove any doubt that it offends people, imho.

Then everyone must feel exactly the same way.

Thanks for removing all doubt.

Then everyone must feel exactly the same way.

Thanks for removing all doubt.

How many people does it take before it matters? Is there a number?

Anything can offend somebody somewhere.

Personally, I try to not let inanimate objects offend me.

True offensiveness comes from actions of offensive people, not everyday objects.

Its only a racist symbol to people who choose to see it as a racist symbol.

If I freaked out everytime I saw a confederate flag, Id have a nervous breakdown everytime I visited south.

On my give-a-shit-o-meter, this is hardly worth mentioning.

It's not the opinion of a huge number of people, and I don't understand why that doesn't matter. Who decides what is offensive?

If a great number of people are offended, it's offensive.

In my view, it's not a "choice" to be offended by something. This is something many people do care a great deal about. For that reason alone, it's not a small matter.

And the Democratic platform.

By playing the numbers game as your post suggests, we should be banned for being offensive, as 60 million people are offended by 56 million people.

btw, Im not trying to be obtuse. I agree that many people are offended by the southern flag. I just choose to not let it bother me, as their is a PLENTY of other things to focus on. Banning the stupid stars and bars won't feed anyone, nor save a single life in Iraq.

The majority of Americans were offended if a black person dined near a white person.

So desegregation was offensive, by your description.

Intolerance is intolerance, even when it is the popular opinion. Read that sentence carefully.

Some people are just stuck in the past! It's sad!

course this is Florida, so no surprise there.

You're DEAD wrong.

I'm an African-American born and bred in Texas, and I consider it(the flag) a deeply offensive symbol.

Some of the defenses in this thread seem ridiculous to me.

How would a Jewish person feel when coming upon a swastika scrawled in the snow? Probably terrible. True, the swastika was not originally a Nazi symbol, and true, the Confederate flag does have meanings to other people. It's a deeply hurtful symbol for Jews.

The Confederate flag evokes the same pain in most southern African-Americans.

But Kluckers still carry that flag around to their rallies, and that's all I need to know.

Thanks for listening.

On edit: Sorry if my post seems confusing and if it seems to have no particular structure. It's been a long day.

Rick.

But to assume the man flying it sees it the same way you do is unfounded.

I don't fly the flag, it makes my blood boil to see it flown. I got in an argument at work a few months ago with a boss who wore a hat with the flag on it. I told him the symbol offended me, it was a racist symbol, and he shouldn't wear it at work. He almost fired me, and I kept telling him what I thought until he told me to shut up or walk. I came very close to walking, and then he took the hat off.

He never wore the hat again.

But the hat didn't make him a racist. He's not. He's clueless, he can't see anyone else's point of view, but he's not a racist. He wore it for different reasons.

My point above-- and I'm the only one I've seen in this thread not lining up in the firing squad-- is that none of the bumper stickers on this guy's truck displayed anything other than southern pride. Nothing said anything about racism. The man may be clueless, he may be willfully ignorant, and he may not care that he is hurting other people's feelings, but to accuse him of being hateful without knowing anything more about him than that he is a proud southerner, is bigotted. It's just wrong.

It's declaring that you believe the United States government under the Constitution is illegitimate and ought be replaced with the Confederacy.