Is this what it's like living in a totalitarian government?

I heard Bush make some absurd remark on the radio about what he wanted to do, and the first thought that came into my head was, "There's nothing we can do about it."

I still feel like I got kicked in the stomach from the election. I've found that I now have a "what's the use" attitude. I imagine that this is what it was like during Stalin's Soviet reign, where people walked with their heads down, just trying to get through the day. "Don't make waves, just agree with the ruling party and you'll be fine." According to the election results, close to half the people in America do not like Bush, but Bush is ignoring that fact. He is ruling as he sees fit, and if the people don't like it, tough.

Bush is getting rid of all the moderates in his cabinet and replacing them with hard RWers. The CIA is purging the organization of anybody with a dissenting voice. The House of Representatives is doing away with any shred of ethics that it once had so that Tom DeLay can keep his leadership position. The Supreme Court is leaning to the right and will soon go much farther to the right as Bush starts to replace the justices who retire. There exits the very scary possibility the the Republicans have discovered the secret to stealing elections (remember Stalin's quote about who counts the votes?). Where are the checks and balances that our government needs to operate in a fair manner? How can we stop, or at least slow down the Bush juggernaut?

I take consolation in the fact that American politics usually swings like a pendulum. People will eventually get tired of having all their civil liberties taken away and being told how to live by Jerry Falwell. I just hope that I can summon the strength to keep fighting in the mean time. I want to feel that if there is something I disagree with, there is also something I can do about it. Is that too much to ask?

but I'm here, you are not alone ..

Only when disaster hits home with those smug expressions on the faces of the self righteous Bush voters at all those little wingnut churches start to crack. It's going to take first hand lessons in civics and economics to get through to these poor deluded dimwits.

Bush is now fresh out of anyone else to blame, although he's now blaming his deficit on "existing programs," not on his ruinously generous tax giveaways to the plutocracy combined with revenue shortfalls from the rest of us due to unemployment and underemployment. Keep your eye on the upcoming bond auction to float the latest debt. If nobody bites, it might be the tipping point for Wingnut Economics.

Eventually even the most delusional Koolaid drinker is going to find himself smack in the middle of cognitive dissonance.

And that's when things will get better for US.

It was about what they were going to do, their policies. The checks and balances are still there (Congress, Courts, and Executive) it's just that now the Repukes control them all. Well, we've controlled them all in the past, too, and didn't pay a whole lot of attention to conservative laments. so now they're not going to. But what goes around, comes around. We'll win elections again. Remember, it took them about 60 years, maybe it'll take us that long, maybe not. Don't give up hope.

Believe it or not, there have always been politicians who lie and cheat and steal. It's unfortunate, but we live in an imperfect democracy, not a dictatorship.

If that was all that was going on, we wouldn't be in such a fix. This is about a takeover of a whole worldview, the neocon worldview.

I have to agree with you. Our Democracy is finished. Does anybody really believe we'll get our freedoms just "handed to us" a few years from now, when everybody, Republicans included, are sick of it?

Our freedoms were never handed to us. People died to preserve them, and I never appreciated those people until November 3. Now I understand what they fought for, because we've lost ours.

No one, no government EVER gave us freedoms. We had to fight for them, every single one. If the governments had their way, we would STILL be serfs, handing our sack of grain to our feudal Lord and bowing to him in obedient servitude.

It's over, folks. The important thing to remember here is that these people are NOT REPUBLICANS. They're only masquerading as such. They've fooled everybody, including the Republicans. They're radicals. Like a virus that mimics the DNA of healthy cells, they blasted their way into the White House, and they're not leaving.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but let's be 100% realistic about who we're dealing with.

No one can take them away from us. It is just that the government can get so powerful that it can scare us from exercising them. Don't be afraid. You have your freedom, you just need to go out there and do something with it.

Or in some cases, by some nutjobs, gladly forfeited.

How sad.

Bake

They are never forfeited. Maybe forgotten, but never forfeited.

We can take them back at any time. We just need to exercise them. Refuse to sit at the back of the bus. Be not afraid.

gets so powerful that it kills you for exercising your freedoms.

Or they take your job away, or they put you into a work camp, or they put you into a clinic for re-education. They have many ways of taking care of that pesky thing of exercising your inalienable freedoms.

that is rich---so when i vote for change on an unverifiable e-voting machine i am really voting for change? sure

This part strikes me as especially true, and I wish more people would hear this, know it, and share it:

The important thing to remember here is that these people are NOT REPUBLICANS. They're only masquerading as such. They've fooled everybody, including the Republicans. They're radicals. Like a virus that mimics the DNA of healthy cells, they blasted their way into the White House, and they're not leaving.... let's be 100% realistic about who we're dealing with.

Anyone who thinks another election will fix this....is a fool. Doesn't anyone remember 2000???? We no longer live in a democracy....this is a radical right wing dictatorship....and it is going to take alot more than an election to change it. People need to open their eyes. I feel the way I felt on 9/11....in a matter of minutes our world, or country, and our lives changed, and will never be the same.

call it a "conspiracy theory" then go on pretending it's not happening.The only thing I know for sure is that the moment when the majority of folks wake up enough to physically want to stop it,IT'S TO LATE.Besides that things are going great,Kerry's going to take it to them, then everything will be just great.I can see bUSH right now,"Oh sorry John,now that the recount shows you won here's the keys to the White house." WAKE UP!!!!!:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: SORRY for hurting some of your feelings

in a matter of minutes our world, or country, and our lives changed, and will never be the same.

It all depends on who perpetrated this....THAT makes all the difference in the world. The answer to that question has NEVER been made clear. The efforts to reveal the truth are is only met with obstruction, which can only cast more doubt and suspicion....and ultimately, cast more obvious guilt.

Hitler's 1000 year reich lasted 14 years, but is Germany today the nation it would have been if he had never come to power?

We will be dealing with the aftereffects of this coup for generations, and never again will Americans trust their government to do the right thing. Perhaps that's not a bad thing, a healthy cynicism, but one of the defining characteristics of Americans is their openness, their innate innocence, their optimism.

We will never be the same.

***Just noticed! I'm out of the 700 club! Praise the Lord!***

...of the people, for the people, by the people....the one that was originally fought for, and so dearly LOVED/ENVIED, by THE PEOPLE of other nations. The grand experiment of the United States of America hasn't met with it's last chapter...and we won't cave to this current challenge.

We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these ends, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government shall become destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying it's foundation on such principles and organizing it's power in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence indeed will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes: and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, begun at a distinguished period, and pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them to arbitrary power, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government and to provide new guards for future security. Such has been the patient sufferings of the colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to expunge their former systems of government. the history of his present majesty is a history of unremitting injuries and usurpations, among which no one fact stands single or solitary to contradict the uniform tenor of the rest, all of which have in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world, for the truth of which we pledge a faith yet unsullied by falsehood.


Ehm, Calling all Democrats....do you see anything in the mirror thingy here????

government remains the same, and the criminals have been removed from power, there will always be the memory that fascists can seize our government and use it against us. The founding fathers saw a similar situation and came to the conclusion that the only response remaining to them was revolution.

I don't think revolution is called for, though if events continue on their current path it might not be out of the question, but serious and determined overt action will be needed to regain control of our nation. Mere voting won't do it, because the system is now thoroughly rigged against us.

But when it is over, and they are gone, will we ever blindly accept any president's warning about an enemy about to nuke us? How many of us believe what is being said about Iran right now? In case you haven't noticed, most the world hates us. Some were willing to give us a break, based on our past, but now that * has been re-elected, they have no reason to love or trust us.

We are now a rogue nation. And if we continue on this path of war across the middle east, giving them the gift of democracy at gunpoint, it will be held against us for a hundred years, just as the world remembers Hitler, and Georgia remembers Sherman.

I am saddened for what * has cost us.

can infiltrate their secret society, and be willing to collect as much incriminating evidence as possible....and then use the information to our advantage. Status quo will not work....votes mean nothing.....this is going to have to be a brand new method (cold-war-like) of revolution. As we have a DU we also need to have a secret agency...like a democratic CIA. With intelligent people working around the clock, and financial backers, and covert spies. I know this sounds extreme....it is.....but we will not win any other way. We need to play the game the way they are playing it....if they are playing chess and we continue to play checkers...they win. Just a thought....maybe someone will run with it.

That is what we are now, the Resistance. In its fledgling form, or

forms, because there will be various different ways in which the

Resistance will evolve over time.

But please, stay involved on some level, we need to fight this beast

any way we can because its not just our country at stake -


edited for typos

also, maybe i am wrong, but in the past when dems controled things there was an inherent respect for honesty and service to the people---now, well, you know

"ritualized" one. We can still vote -- big whoop -- but our votes are not counted. Do you mean "democracy" like in Iraq when 90% of the people voted for Saddam?

This democracy has gone way past "imperfect."

I wish I could be as naive as all these people that are content in thinking everything will be fine. In this case knowledge is NOT power. I wish I knew nothing, and I could just walk around blissfully ignorant.

People see this stuff with their own eyes, but Wolf Blitzer doesn't seem to be too concerned, so their perceptions must be skewed.

And then its one jackboot after another jackboot after another, etc etc -- all delivered by pretty girls who smile, and a warm personable leader -- so obviously perceptions must be skewed.

They may see it with their own eyes, but its too terrible to imagine its really happening. Truly -- Bush has the naivete of the America on his side in this.

They act boldly. Brazenly. They lie boldly and brazenly. White is black and black is white and war is peace.

At times, I have suggested people consult studies about abusive spouses, because the techniques are the same, except on a more more inclusive level.

Too many people are catching on -- hence the purges in the government taking place. Very soon, ALL we will hear is bullshit.

Be tough. We HAVE to be. Maybe we will set an example for our Dem leadership, the same way the folk who got killed or beaten or sprayed with firehoses in Selma woke up THEIR Dem leadership.

My Dad grew up to fight fascism. I know people who have grown up in repressive regimes, who were made refugees by the Nazis, etc, and when I complain, they concur that America has made a turn towards fascism, and when I say, "I NEVER imagined I would live to see such a time!" they say, "Oh well. But you are."

My Kingdom for Blind Ignorance,it's getting hard to come to DU lately mind you it is a website for Democratic folks.Is there a forum for people having problems being naive?

They stole it, they stole it in 2000 and they stole the races they wanted to steal in 2002.

Get used to it.

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/

it's still a win, they are still in power. They won.

will be in power. The only hope we have for our democracy is if the Republicans DO NOT get away with this.

I know what you mean. It is getting to feel like any effort will be thwarted. We have people in power who are very sinister. I agree with you about American politics swinging like a pendulum---in response to society when it demands change. I find consolation in the powers that rest with the states. Our government isn't centralized enough for the neocons to easily have their way.

I'll be dead!!!!

15 years of troubled times, before we begin to emerge out of it.

There are long lasting consequences to this adminstration, which is why **we** fought as hard as we did to stop it.

Bush wants to be at war with the world....and he wants my kids to fight that war. If he gets a chance to draft them...I have little hope, except to escape the "freedom" of this country.

They stole the media, and they stole the voting machines, there is no pendulum anymore!

There is nothing to stop them.
No Congress
No Court
No States
No pendulum

they have the media

they have the voting system

There's really nothing left but us. Which is why nothing will work except full - scale civil disobedience.

There was this bright light for the future, Bobby Kennedy was going to pick up the pieces of Camelot, he was going to lead us out of the turbulent 60's, out of the Viet Nam War and into a time when life would be more fair for everyone. Into a future that would be not only good for America, but good for the world.

Then there was June in LA.

Hubert Humphrey had picked up the torch and was going to defeat Nixon and we would move forward into the next decade.

Then there was a November election.

I tuned out the Nixon years. They are just a blur to me today. This was the first year since 1968 that I have actually liked and been inspired by a candidate. I still can't understand how so many people could have voted for Bush.

They murdered him a month before poor Bobby.

There have been periodic coup attempts since the 50s. Funny how the same names keep coming up....

They had to murder anyone who stood in the way.

They specialize in character assassination these days.

And Nixon was so much more likable than Bush.

The trouble is -- they learned from Nixon -- NEVER reach out to those who oppose you in ANY minimal way. And hide your crimes far more carefully.

Nixon was a flawed man. SO sad, because there is much to admire about him -- particularly his prescience 20 years ago that after the fall of the Soivet Union, terrorism was going to be future nature of war. He urged George HW Bush to secure Russia's weapons stockpiles and aid Russians so they would not be desperate enough to sell unsecured nuclear materials to terrorists -- George HW didn't.... Ooops.

They are purging the government, just like regimes in totalitarian governments do. Loyalty, not competency, is everything.

What they are working to do is make sure they do not go to jail for their crimes. They will be ruthless to see that this does not happen.

They are eradicating any signs of "dissent" -- i.e. anyone who disagrees with the Chimperor's infallible God given policies. They are creating a self-perpetuating one-party state, held together by violence.

I have friends who have grown up in USSR and its repressive satellite states, or in Maoist China, who live here now, and they all tell me, one of the few people they feel they can speak freely to, something on the order of "HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Do you people realize what has HAPPENED!!??" They are glad to hear I know, and that I am fighting.... They are shocked at what has taken place in America.

that people don't see and read the signs. Like you, I had friends who grew up in repressive regimes - their stories have come back to me and I am seeing all the indications of the road ahead. When you can't speak your mind in public, wonder who is safe to share your thoughts with, have your home or car vandalized because of your political views...that's totalitarism kissing you on the cheek.

I lived in Venezuela when it wasn't entirely safe for Americans - and I wasn't as afraid there as I am right now.

But then again they are just getting started. Give it a year to two

This isn't just getting started. This was started long ago. It's only now that this has become clear to those who refused to believe it was happening. And why is it more clear now? Because they have all the cards. They have the media, all the branches of government on all levels, state and federal. Who's going to stop them? Now that they have it all, they have no problem telling us what they are going to do.

No my friend, this isn't anything new. It's just more In Your Face than ever before.

Yes, most DUers care about civil liberties, but if most people did, this election wouldn't been close.

The rise and fall of Rome...

it is also possible that "most people" have a different view of what is a civil liberty, or they weigh civil liberties vs. responsibility differently than others.

I worked really hard on the Kerry campaign in PA, and on election day I spent 13 hours as a poll watcher. I feel the same way you do...except I still haven't given up total hope on a recount changing the results. I know that sounds crazy....but it's the only thing keeping me going. I don't know how I will get thru another 4 years with Bush (and the "moral majority", and the media), without going insane. Just the thought of it makes me sick.

Just wondering .... seriously ....

I had a nice long message for you but failure to remove my popup blocker on spell check removes everything I wish this forum would change that.

And welcome to DU!