LATEST GOP talking point: it's Clinton's fault you lost"

GOp strategist made it on Crossfire,
media whores run with it,
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=2&topic_id=339608&mesg_id=339608&page=
freepers start threads.
Do not encourage this BS! Do not study their new reality!


''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And
while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll
act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and
that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you,
all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
Bush aide to Ron Suskind

As a disclaimer: whatever objections we have to Clinton, kerry won, they stole it, let's not indulge this new insanity.
yesterday it was "Moral values", remember?

EOM

There's a bunch of em running around saying Clinton is the reason we keep losing. I don't buy it for one second. Clinton was a winner.

If you want to include Clinton in that history of rushing to the right, the poltics of the "new" Democrat, the DLC, etc - then so be it.

I am trying to tell ya, RNC, freepers, are feeding today on these justified opinions/ feelings - in their efforts to bust us. Stay put.
And yeah, we'll continue the DLC debate but not with freepers

What is "winning?" Yes, yes the election was stolen. It seems to me that this mantra, "the election was stolen" has become a poison pill, causing us to ignore and deny virtually ever other important thought that needs to be had.

We who are up in arms about the election fraud DARE NOT miss the most important point. This president is one of the worst presidents in history. His record is abysmal, the economy has never fully recovered, he lost jobs as president, people are dying everywhere for his war based on lies, he cannot point to one single real success. The fact that the election was even close enough that it could be stolen is a testimony to how weak and fairly the right-wing democratic party actually is, how weak our presidential candidate selection really was, and how utterly messed up both parties are.

So I'm sorry, but I can't just walk around making knee jerk "we won. end of story." comments just to make myself feel better in some kind of self-therapy session. Forget the election - the fact that before the votes were even cast on November 2nd, the fact that the average of all polls basically had John Kerry and George Bush and a statistical dead heat across the nation ought to be a huge wake up call to us. There is NO EXCUSE for those kinds of numbers! And if we can't present a clear enough and meaningful enough altnerative to the worst president in history, then its time for HUGE REVOLUTIONARY REFORM within our party.

We tried it the moderate, right wing, sniveling, apologist, "me too" way. Take a back seat, and let progressives drive for a while.

During his interview with Jennings the other day.

I recognized it for what it was, a baring of the incisors, prior to taking a large bite out of Peter Jennings, and his fellow whores.

Nice to see he hasn't lost his fire since the surgery. But I am not a total Bill fan. NAFTA and the WTO are going to destroy America's industrial base entirely, and well, that's Bill's fault.

We need to get out of any agreement that does not balance the needs of labor against the engrossment of management and investor.

he knew they were out to get him, was warned to leave the intern alone, and allowed himself to be setup, and for that reason, damn him!!!

Remeber because of that nonesenes, that was all they could talk about

Don't you see how they manipulate you?
Clinton in focus - let's distract from peace and prosperity. Election fraud? Nah, it was values (cuz the exit poll saying W lost sez so), unless you miss Clinton, in which case we revisit the stain and we blame your loss on him.
Try to stay with us - the reality based community - please!

it's just that the other 50% of the people in this country who are morans are not

I have seen this before, and it is like a rerun of a bad movie

When this crap is all over, there will be thousands of Americans dead in Iraq, our country financially bankrupted, environment trashed, and a supreme court which will try to destroy civil rights

At that time the dems will finally take it back, but we will be so screwed, that it won't matter

There are some opportunities right now for the dems in congress to fight. For example a spending bill is coming up, where the repukes have added an anti-abortion clause to it. If the dems fight, and do not let it pass, NO matter how much pressure they get, we have a chance. On the other hand if they bow to pressure, our democracy is gone

What a telling photo. And what do you suppose the gentleman holding the door open is thinking?

BTW, off the point, but I think bush looks ridiculous with his coat belted that way.

one only needs to do a search on certain posters' posts to see a pattern, imo. I have to admit, I have responded to some before thinking it through.

The major reason was we had a weak candidate running on a weak platform who was pandering to the right in the forlorn hope that he could win over the "moderates" by backing the war and killing geese.

As for Clinton's part in it, he and the DLC started the move to appease the right by claiming that was the only way to win. Despite the fact that we haven't won, some here still cling to that delusion.

the economy of a country - no matter what freepers tell ya. prosperity, surplus - now war, recession.
I may not like everything he is saying these days, but to blame Clinton - even partially - for being robbed by the BFEE shows a blindness beyond belief.

I'll be happy to eat my words about how "Kerry won".

As for Clinton being other than a mediocrity who moved the party to the right and sold out on major issues, you're welcome to your opinion.

As to the economy and presidential effect, sure he was better than Bush. He had lots of luck and didn't convince congress to fritter away billions on "defense".

But, hell, even Bush I, was better than the boob.

As to influencing the election(s), Clinton was able to convince much of the public that the Democrats were a pack of sex mad opportunists by not simply telling the press to butt-out of his personal life and then compounded it by his lame coverup attempt.

However your devotion to Clinton is touching.

He went on with a shoplifring states list - Florida, Ohio, new Mexico and Colorado (those were the ones he had facts on).
See, if you actually look at facts, you can concentrate on the right issues, and maybe place the blame on the thieves rather than the victims. Also, fight for the relevant issue (voter rights movement) rather than study their f*ing reality - who mover where and when.


''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And
while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll
act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and
that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you,
all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
Bush aide to Ron Suskind