National fury targets Sly

"http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=18724&ntpid=2"
Wisconsin's Progressive Newspaper

National fury targets Sly

Calling Rice 'Jemima' ignites firestorm

By Lee Sensenbrenner and Mike Miller
November 20, 2004

Since he called Secretary of State nominee Condoleezza Rice an "Aunt Jemima" and outgoing Secretary of State Colin Powell an "Uncle Tom" on his radio talk show Wednesday, Madison's John Sylvester has been taking angry e-mail from across the country, but he still has his job.

The story of his racially charged insults for members of the Bush administration raced across the Internet this week and was carried in most major newspapers and scores of TV affiliates and radio stations throughout the United States.

It also reached the White House. A senior administration official there returned a call about the matter but said they had no public comment about it.

This is the most exposure that Sylvester, known to his listeners as Sly, has ever received. In an interview Friday, he repeated that the only apology he was offering was one to Aunt Jemima......

is that Rice will probably be remembered for being called that more than anything else.

maybe it is just it not on the radio??????

Otherwise, it is only "sad" that this is a FACTUAL and ACCURATE description of her - not that the term is used.

If you missed this, see the Toons thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2715766

it does seem racialist. The lips and all...

As a non-black who grew up with one foot in black culture, (which to a great degree is American culture) I would like to see this one get the benefit of the doubt.

It's hard to believe that something this anti-administration is racist.

--IMM

exuses racialisim? Is that what your saying?

At least in terms of physical features.

I've seen the Big Teeth effect on condi in plenty of other cartoons, and enlarging the lips here only serves to show her "big mouth".

You can see it differently, but then we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Sorry about the spelling.

Caricature exaggerates features. I don't see this as out of line in drawing an African person. I think that it is meant to be unflattering heightens the inference.

--IMM

Refering to big lips IMModerate said:"I don't see this as out of line in drawing an African person."

Just wow.

Double Wow!!

--IMM

I think you do. Is racialism even a real word?

I don't have a problem with it.

Like her lips aren't full of puss and lies.

Plus her lips aren't brown from kissing W's ass 24/7.

I don't have a problem with ANY negative depiction of Sleeza. PERIOD.

She's a lying, sellout, disgrace to ANY race. Same holds true for Colin. BTW, my cousin knew Colin "back in the day" as they say and he didn't have any use for black people. Just because they're "black" doesn't mean they've got your back. Moreover disliking, even loathing, certain blacks and certain Jews -- Lieberman comes to mind -- and depicting them as the despicable people they are through caricatures is NOT racist or anti-Semitic.

Not even the teeth. Seriously, though, it looks like she positively *bludgeoned* it into submission. Not a hint of a curl or a kink; but, it doesn't look at all natural. It looks like she uses enough product on it to carve out an extra hole in the ozone layer.

And as for the teeth--the reason we *see* so much of them is because she's constantly holding her upper lip away from them in that cornered-rodent snarl that whole administration has down so well. Everything about her screams "repressed" and "repressive." She's just awful.

As for Lieberman--well, speaking as a Jewish woman, erm, I dunno what to say, except that I'm ashamed to have anything at all in common with the droopy little fundie-rimming dormouse.

If he is I wish he wasn't.

Stuff like that is not helpful. He is making her race an issue.

He is making the fact that she misrepresents her race an issue.

I am not black but I believe that people everywhere have far better role models than Condi and Colon (sar). If the shoe fits - - -

They parade minorities around to score points. There is no representation of minority issues.

--IMM

Don't attack her with racist terms, that would seem obvious.

You have a way with words. :loveya:

--IMM

because Bush has made race an issue.

He rode into office in 2000 on the backs of disenfranchised blacks.

He campaigned for this election cycle on a basis of division and more disenfranchisement.

And any black who supports him and his tactics can kiss my black ass.

People are dying. People are losing their homes. And their jobs.

for the same purpose. Laura Flanders analyses this well in her book "Bush Women". Choose women and minorities for positions that will get more media praise for our broad minded Great Leader. Media then continues to shirk its responsibility by focusing on human interest aspects of the appointee, ignoring their RW ideology. (they only get hired if they sign and kiss the Loyalty Oath. Hey btw, Hitler forced his appointees to sign loyalty oaths too.)

Although if we weren't in mixed company, I would be more "colorful" in making that same comment ... ;)

Condi is a fraud just as much as her boss ass who she kisses whenever
convinient...er, where the sun don shine.

That she let down America during the early days (post inaug) is a fact. Some Sec Advsor she turned out to be. No pro activeness, only reactiveness. Poor leadership and no insights worthy of the position.

Come, we burn her in effigy

"Tom" and "Jemimah" are too cliched for my taste. But I think that the idea that these "people of color" are in their positions because they are against the mainstream of their respective cultures to give cover to an administration that follows racist policies, is odious.

I don't think that Rice would be NSA or Secretary of State if she were white.

--IMM

May be paraded around by the administration to show a "committment to diversity" as has been charged. In fairness to the two individuals, they are where they are because of hard work and excellence and they weren't put in "window dressing" jobs like head of the civil rights commission or secy of housing and urban development. They were placed in key government positions. As to their performance in these jobs, lets judge them on US foreign policy for the last four years, not on their race or how much we like/dislike them. Sylvester was out of line with his remarks.

Yes, they were good but affirmative action HELPED both of them.

Colin for sure owes a huge debt of gratitude to Jimmy Carter's Undersecretary of the Army, Clifford Alexander, who rejected an all white roster of career Army guys for advancement. He specifically requested some diversity --affirmative action -- be established and that the list include women and minortities. And that is how Colin got on the fast track!

And you don't think Sleeza is where she is solely on merit do you. AA helped her (as it did Ward Connerly) when it came to the Board of Regents of the University of California system.

As for their higher level positions, I, as a black person, have one comment: when the shit hits the fan, the white folks can blame it on those shiftless niggahs. PERIOD.

If they don't do the job, call them on the specifics. She did not emphasize terrorism early on. She has been incorrect on other issues.

But I vehemently disagree with typecasting. Whether it is the "Uncle Tom" or "Aunt Jemima" or any other slur, it has no place.

I stand for your right to call them wrong, call them mean, call them specific names for specific actions. Mr. Sylvester, whom I've never heard here in California, simply reinvorces a bad example. Words are his stock in trade as a radio personality.

He should choose them more wisely.

as a role model. She has proven to be a habitual liar and ass kisser. She does black women of strength and character a diservice everytime she opens her mouth.

Compare her to Maya Angelou, Alice Walker, Wilma Rudolph, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Rosa Parks.

She's a worm.

and for a bunch of liars whose policies certainly DO NOTHING to help the larger Black community.

Recall, as just one example, that the Bush Administration CHOSE to make a point of issuing a 'friend of the court' brief for the plaintiffs in the anti-affirmative action suit against the Univ. of Michigan.

Also, under their current and continuing economic policies, blacks as a group have fallen farther behind in the wealth gap and into poverty ... MORE THAN ANY GROUP.

The list is large and long .........

As Rev. Al Sharpton so astutely said of Clarence Thomas, though his comment is equally applicable to Colin and Condi, ... "he may be my color, but he is not my kind!"

I can't find the original quote anywhere, but if it's the one they quoted on Air America, this is not a racial comment at all. If anything, it's a criticism of the administration for using Condi's race as a marketing tool.

The administration really makes hay out of parading their minorities. They love to claim "diversity" even though it's skin deep.

--IMM

and "Uncle Tom" he is DEFINITELY making her race the issue.

Are African-Americans only "allowed" to think and "act" one way?

"allowed" to think and "act" any way we want. However, regardless of race, creed or color, these principles don't apply to the Bush administration. Everyone must sign loyalty oaths and march in step.

But the issue (larger issue) is he is using blacks as props.

This man insults the NAACP, then hails this worthless bitch as something for the black community to be proud of?

I'll never forget her incompetence and testimony before the 9/11 Commission.

Is that the best my race can do?

Is this the best we have to offer?

I think not.

watching the anti-PC crowd swoon with the vapors over some shockjock's crassness.

"Invade their countries, kill their leaders, convert them to Christianity" anyone?

Not to mention "feminazis"... ?
:shrug:

"We're in a game of gotcha right now, and this is a byproduct of the culture war that's going on in this country," Sylvester said. "Everybody is looking for somebody to slip up so they can throw in some grist for the mill of the culture war." (per Sly)

"http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?RQT=309&VInst=PROD&VName=PQD&VType=PQD&sid=
2&index=52&SrchMode=3&Fmt=3&did=000000739243161&clientId=3751"


SLY DENIES RACISM, SAYS HE'S PROVOCATIVE;
Lee Sensenbrenner The Capital Times. Madison Capital Times.
Madison, Wis.: Nov 19, 2004. pg. 1.A

Despite widespread criticism, morning talk radio host John Sylvester, or Sly as he's known to listeners, says he is not apologizing for using racial insults against two officials in the Bush administration.

Sylvester said in an interview Thursday that he called Condoleezza Rice, Bush's national security adviser and secretary of state nominee, "an Aunt Jemima" because "her price of admission to the White House is being subservient."

Sylvester also called Secretary of State Colin Powell an "Uncle Tom" Wednesday on WTDY/AM 1670. He criticized Powell as bending to the will of Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

"I know some people may not like the term Aunt Jemima, but really some of my black callers had used it long before I did, referring to her," Sylvester said.......

Go to the inner city punk and yell the "N" word over and over again.

He's only "provocative" when he won't get his ass beat for it.

Some hero.

"http://www.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/nov04/276370.asp"
SLY'S NOT SORRY

Madison liberal radio talker John Sylvester - known to WTDY-AM (1670) listeners as "Sly" - says he's not backing down from his description of Condoleezza Rice as an "Aunt Jemima" on his Wednesday show.
"There was no intent of harm to African-Americans," he tells Inside TV & Radio. "My comments were directed like a laser beam at Condoleezza Rice.

"It's about her using her role as a prominent African-American woman to play a subservient role to Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney."

He says his use of a racially insensitive term is nothing like Milwaukee talker Mark Belling's use of a derogatory word for illegal Mexican immigrants, an utterance that eventually led to a suspension.

"He was shouting invectives out at an entire group of people and casting aspersions at them casting their votes," he says of Belling......

In attacking Rice, why is racial imagry used? Why is it important to make sure her race becomes the main issue?

There is plenty else to attack her with. Call her a PNAC suckin, Neo-Con bitch, whatever.

The fact that some use her race as the launching pad for their attacks onher tells you all you need to know about how "tolerant" they really are.

she's a sorry, ass-kissing, sellout, piece of shit black bitch.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that doesn't take away from the fact that Rice is a sleazy black bitch.

I know black bitches.

How about Native American? Asian? Eskimo?

Bi-racial?

How do you know what race exactly they are?

"black bitches"?

you need to cast your lure elsewhere.

The subject was using race as a weapon in a political attack. Not acceptable.

your'e the one who went on the "what about Indians, etc." path.

I'm not discussing Indians.

BTW: How many Indians are in the Bush administration?

Don't even try turning your bullshit around on me.

Look, I'm sorry. This is a very sensitive issue with you. I just don't like the racially charged words, okay?

white causes and blacks black causes? How is this being color-blind and seeing a person for who they are outside of their skin color?

What is she selling out exactly, is it the stated goal of people of a race to get into positions of power and use that to mainly help out others of their race, or should the goal be for all people to help all other people?

If Rush had called someone the same terms he would be labeled as a racist pig on that alone - because we hate him. We like someone, they can use any terms they want?

Is condi a discredit to her race - if so what does that mean, that her race is different than other races and that she has not lived up to some racial creed? Are blacks the only people who can help other blacks, if so then obviously clinton was not able to do anything for blacks because he was white. So if whites in power can help blacks, and blacks in power can help blacks, what difference does it make what condi's race is - she is a government official, a fellow american and human, and her failings are hers as such - her race is immaterial.

woman is in her position in this criminal administration. For the radio jock to use it is simply following upon the point at hand, which is Bush's cynical promotion of a "colored girl" (which is exactly what he would have called her when and where he was growing up) to Secretary of State. What he got was a "two-fer" appointment, and what we got was a rubber stamp SOS, as well as Screwed.

This man insults the NAACP, then hails this worthless bitch as something for the black community to be proud of?

I'll never forget her incompetence and testimony before the 9/11 Commission.

Is that the best my race can do?

Is this the best we have to offer?

I think not.

:thumbsup:

And how it's being used. I stand by his comments(I think), though I realize it is giving the right wing free ammunition.

How about Imus? He calls palestinians "rag heads" and "animals" and says they should all be killed. He's still on the air. Why do we insist on cannibalizing our own for arguably fair comments?

It is interesting to note, I STILL cannot find the original quote anywhere.

I am attacking the use of Rice's race as fair game.

Even though she is incompetent.

Her value to them is not her great competence, it is her race. They should be callled on that.

--IMM

racially derogatory names.

I would sound different if I were black. I would be upset that the administration claims magnanimity for racial diversity, and is against the issues that concern them.

--IMM

and should be called on it. I personally avoid that language, (except in the case of Clarence "Uncle" Thomas) but I think the shoe fits.

I think that's how mainstream blacks see it and they use that to express their understandable outrage and frustration. It's disheartening to think that the culmination of the civil rights struggle is Condoleeza Rice.

--IMM

just the kind of 'black woman' the Republicans like. One that looks black (brown) but in every other aspect she is white. Blacks are not fooled by this non-sense. They know people like Rice are oreos working for the slave-masters.

i am under the impression that the "N" word is just derogatory. but to be called "aunt jemima" or an "uncle tom" has an actual meaning (i.e. working for the white slave masters).

if so, i'm not sure why there is so much flap about this. he didn't call her a "N". he called her "aunt jemima" and that is what she is--a sellout working for the white masters.

she's being strongly criticized as to be expected. i guess i just don't see why there is so much attention to this (especially since the term used to describe her is spot on).

i don't remember these racially charged terms being bantered around when the issue was about her lying her ass off during her testimony. she was called a sleu of things but aunt jemima was not one of them.

IMModerate, I have a great deal of respect for what you have to say on this board, so please understand I am not attacking you or your opinions, just politely disagreeing.

I use the same tone and language when talking politics no matter where I am or who I am with. The only exception is that I may edit out a few obscenities in some cases, depending on either the age of those with me (I respect my elders - of any race) and how many beers I've had!

If I had only limited interaction with African Americans, I might be more restrained, out of good intentions. But I believe there is such a thing as being dysfunctionally polite. We are especially gifted at this in the South. And it is absolutely killing progress here.

If I call someone an "Uncle Tom" to a white friend, you can bet I'll have no trouble doing the same in front of a black friend. The same goes if the label is "Jim Crow" or anything else.

I'm no radical or in-your-face-activist. I live in the real world, the "red" world (unfortunately), and have friends and family of all political persuasions. I refuse to insult any of them by altering who I am or what I believe. And I have never, ever in my life been called a racist. Works for me!

we can use the classic terms, icons, and images of racialists, as long as its against the bush misadministration?

Which nobody here knows.

Rosa Parks, Jackie Robinson, Thurgoode Marshall and other people who make me proud of America. Condi Rice is a douch bag who can't read PDBs correctly. I generally don't have douch bags who can't read PDBs correctly as my role models.

I wish I were one tenth as talented as she is.

Her talent seems to consist of a willingness to adopt reactionary positions, and position herself as a sort of affirmative action "two-fer": a woman and a black one to boot. She has been on the scene for some time, you know, and has never made any particular impression of knowledgeabilty. She is a second rate Kremlinologist, and nothing more. That is a skill that has about as much application to the present dituation of the world as a specialist in sword-smithing has to the weapons industry.

That the current administration touts her presence as some sort of evidence they are inclusive and enlightened, something more than a pack of religious bigots, race-baiters and gay-baiters, makes the accident of her race, otherwise unremarkable, of some moment, and worth some comment. People like her are no new phenomenon; any submerged class will always throw up a certain number of collaborators with the oppressor, moved by self-interested calculation, and sometimes even affection, who act as an important tool in continuing the oppression of their fellows. This wretch is one of those, and so is the reptile Powell....

"The true nature of human beings is so despicable that if you were to represent one with complete honesty, you would never be believed."

:hi:

Wife pointed out the brouha to me, and it seemed worth a little engagement....

"For the Snark was a Boojum, you see...."

The Talented Mr. Ripley.

"Besides lying, Tom's talents include impressions and forgery..."

just curious: "The true nature of human beings is so despicable that if you were to represent one with complete honesty, you would never be believed."

thanks.

other than kissing white Christian Repukes asses and spinning lies-to-order for the same.

I think you would find yourself more in tune with Freeper scum when it comes to your opinions on this issue. Are you sure you are on the correct board? This is a Democrat board. Democrats know when you are blowing smoke up their ass unlike Bush supporters who believe the world is flat after they drink the cool-aid.

lets see, she was an informal advisor to bush1 ... she sucked as a provost at stanford - honing her kissup and speak the admin line skills... there isn't a long academic track record of scholarship... either she lied under oath to the 911 commission or she is the most inept national security advisor other...

what talent? I have held this woman in contempt for her mindlessness since I first heard her speak in the early nineties. Were she not conservative - and thus good window dressing - she would undoubtedly be teaching at a community college somewhere or stuck as a permanent adjunct professor.

I don't think that exempts her from the contempt most Black Americans should feel for her and other so-called black republicans. I don't know what race you are. I don't even know if that makes a difference. I'm Black and I didn't feel offended. I really wish that all the indignation being expressed at this man's comments would be directed at true racial indignities like the fact that the Republican party has systematically and diligently sought to disenfranchise members of the black community. While I might understand a Black person being attracted to the Republican's so-called stances on "moral values" or "fiscal responsibility", I feel that as long as Black Republican's refuse to speak out on the Republican efforts to marginalize and incarcerate our community, then they deserve every single epithet thrown their way.

Keep in mind that these same , "Come to Jesus", Bible toting conservatives used to practice the ultimate form of voter disenfranchisement: They killed Black people. They shot us. They hung us. They burned our churches. They intimidated us at every opportunity. And if you were White and believed this was wrong and said so, you got the exact same treatment. And for Black people within the republican ranks to stay mute in the face of overwhelming evidence that these people are deliberately and systematically suppressing a right paid for in blood makes me want to vomit. Rice and Powell, for whatever their talents and abilities, are only where they are because people gave their lives so that we might have a say in this country.

I hope that if anything, this man's comments jump starts some discussions within the Black community regarding our political future. People like Rice and Condi need to be called out and held accountable. And if it means calling someone a politically incorrect name then so be it. I am new to the Board and have been lurking a lot and I haven't really seen a serious discussion of Race and politics since the election although it was definitely a major undercurrent. I was reading a thread in the Elections Results area the other day where someone had asked for a picture of the Ohio Secretary of State, Ken Blackwell. I had been following with the help of this BLOG the election debacle in Ohio and I knew Blackwell was a major source of the Republican effort to disenfranchise voters. Well someone posted a picture of him and when I saw it my jaw dropped. HE'S BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aside from pointedly calling into light my own prejudices (I just knew that anyone so intent on screwing the Black voter had to be white!), it also brought into focus how these "conservative" Blacks are all to willing to look the other way when there are gross injustices being committed against their very race. We need to have discussions about this within our community and we need to call these people out.

And trust me, if you don't think that within the confines of our homes, Black people aren't using language like Sly and Catwoman to describe these folks, then you better get a grip. I'm picking up my 70 year old mother from the airport in a little while and when the conversation invariably turns political, she will on quite a few occasions let me know what a bunch of uncle tommin, race traitors these people are.

I am too new to start a thread but if anyone else is interested in this issue, I'd like to discuss it further. The fact that the NAACP seems to be more worried about this issue than what these black republicans are doing to our communities makes me see why a lot of Black people feel they are losing whatever relevance they have left in our community

I was raised in Brooklyn

:hi:

And forget trying to talk sense to "Fear Itself".

I fear that Fear has been banned :D

I just moved to a red state. Starting to question my sanity

which is where I live now.

I can't wait to get out of this turd of a state.

I'm in Gwinnett

You have expressed the feelings of many African Americans.

Your words are direct and true, at a time when honesty is painfully absent around here. Your post was an excellent challenge and inspiration, even to a white chick from the Deep South like me.

I'll be happy to start any thread you'd like to take the lead on until your post count is up - just send me a private message via DU!

duplicate post

On an interview on WPR (WI public radio), Sly made it clear that he is a person who abhors censorship. He was not one of the many in Wisconsin going after a Milwaukee jock for using the term "wetback" to describe latin-americans. He clearly stated that his comments were directed to Condy, whom he considers "totally incompetent, a war-criminal, and a traitor of the worst kind." The "Aunt Jemimah" was a reference to someone who will do anything to appease the Bush administration.

On Sly's show this week, he made an apology: to Aunt Jemimah! He said he read about her, and leared that she was quite a remarkable women. When he realized his error, he apologized, and on that show he gave away pancake mix to his listeners.

An interesting observation from the WPR show: The uproar started with Charlie Sykes, a right-wing hack in Milwaukee, making a huge issue on his show. (Sykes is an asshole, and his show is heavily screened. He makes inflammatory comments, then moves on to other topics. Plus, his producer screens his calls to ONLY allow people on who agree with him.)

The comment on WPR was that the uproar came from Milwaukee, and Sykes' listeners - NOT from the Black community in Madison (where Sly's audience is). And the Black community in Milwaukee has been noticably silent on this topic.

from the black community.

"The comment on WPR was that the uproar came from Milwaukee, and Sykes' listeners - NOT from the Black community in Madison (where Sly's audience is). And the Black community in Milwaukee has been noticably silent on this topic."

This is exactly what I suspected. Condi Rice, IMO, does not appear to be that highly regarded in the black community. There was a report that Bill Cosby asked not to be seated next to her at a certain event.

I agree, there has been negitive reaction from the Black community in Madison--at least not one that is vocal about it.

And I do listen to Sly whenever I can.

These people are NOT black in any aspect other than the top external layer of their skin. These people want to be white just like Michael Jackson. Jackson just has a lot more money to make the skin altercation work. They are oreos in every aspect. The Christian Right are good at digging up Nazi oreos of all races.

the author Franz Fanon discussed such people in his book, BLACK SKIN, WHITE MASK.

but what is necessarily wrong with that?

Back during the Civil Rights movement werent they fighting for equality and whatnot? Werent they fighting so that some day the only difference between blacks and whites would be the color of thier skin?

We still havent reached that point yet however there are still plenty of differences between blacks and whites, but I do think your comment was silly.

The only reason that Colin and Condolezza get a free pass and are "treated" like whites is because they got money and name recognition.

more good discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2728684