Kucinich's Views on Wes Clark as his Vice President

From the Ames Tribune:

http://www.amestrib.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10107665&BRD=2035&PAG=461&dept_id=238101&rfi=6

...

Patrick Hultman, an ISU graduate student from Iowa City, asked if Kucinich would consider sharing a ticket with retired General Wesley Clark.

Clark has been critical of the Bush administration's military campaigns and has hinted at making a run for the top office.

"General Clark has served his country well, but I'm not looking to confirm the primacy of the Pentagon," Kucinich said. "I have a fundamentally different view."

...

BTW maybe your senator Harkin can be his running mate, you know DK supported him in 92.

If he accepts Clark he will be doing EXACTLY what Rove wants.

Remember that internal classified floppy disk that was found? What was the key election strat? "FOCUS ON WAR" Exact quote.

Rove thinks he can win on this, and he has damn good reason to believe it too with the largely successful propaganda campaigns promoting Bush as a war hero and savior of us all.

If we use Clark we change the entire focus of the election away from the economy, civil rights, and other areas that are royally important to americans and replace it with war, terrorism, and homeland security - the one thing Bush can lie and deceive about. He can tell the sheep he is protecting them, and the fools will believe it. BUT he can't tell them they have a job when they are on unemployment and haven't been able to get one for X period of time.

If we use Clark we change the entire focus of the election away from the economy, civil rights, and other areas that are royally important to americans and replace it with war, terrorism, and homeland security - the one thing Bush can lie and deceive about.

it's a terrible strategic mistake to focus on the area that Bush wants the focus to be on. it's playing into Rove's hand. the focus should be on Bush's mishandling of the economy. not to concede the other areas, but to hammer on Bush's greatest weakness.

People shouldn't concede the national security issue to Bush. *THAT* is playing into Rove's hands. We need a candidate that shows the American public how much Bush has damaged our national security.

The fact remains that the Democrats have a big problem with voter perception on defence, and after 9/11 and the two following wars, foreign policy and defence are major issues to the point that if they cannot be addressed, the other issues will not carry. Look at Bush. After his admins terrible management of the govt, he still has approval ratings in the 50's because the people think he is a nice guy, and they think he is trying his best to protect them from terrorists. They think he is looking out for them. Now, i think Wesley is an interesting candidate because his cred helps to neutralize the weak on defence perception while giving him more room to explore the other issues on safer ground. Contrast that with Dean, who will be faced with the pundit circle bringing up aspen when they talk of him being anti-iraqi war (which is still popular.)

Now that would be a ticket. We need to cut wasteful and corrupt spending out of the Pentagon, Kucinich is right as usual. But we'll need some politicking to get it done.

The more anti military you get the more votes you lose, especially after 9-11. I'm not saying that you should go around invading every single country for votes, but to discriminate against someone just because he worked for the Pentagon is foolish especially after 9-11. Dennis is just reinforcing the notion that the left is weak on defense.

DK did oppose the war General Clark commanded. Besides I think there are better VP candiates out there for him than Clark. We do need defense but not offense, he knows better than me and you that there is junk on the pentagon budget.

For those who haven't seen it yet (this is directed more at IranianDemocrat than you, John, but you brought up a good point).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=115311&mesg_id=115311

his problem is the wasteful spending by the pentagon. this spending does not include the pay given to troops and health care for the troops. his problem is with the corporate whores. and he would agree to a military man or someone who worked in the pentagon if they agreed with him on the issues, especially of wasteful "defense" spending.

Thanks for explaining this as well as anyone could. His father was a WWII vet and two of his brothers are Vietnam vets and Dennis K would be one himself I bet had it not been a heart condition that he had.

Also if Kucinich has a fundamental difference with Clark it wouldn't be at all smart to have him as a running mate, and that's what it appears to me. Clark would use military means where Kucinich would not.

Well wow, big surprise that might be a splitting point, huh?

Dude, stop believing the crap. I walk the streets 2 hours a day for Kucinich and week-ends to boot. People are on FIRE for the man when they hear his platform!

I would consider his poll numbers excellent especially when you consider that many of the people we KNOW will vote for Kucinich don't even own computers. Kucinich will kick-ass because he's uniting activists, Progressives, Liberals, Independents and Greens. Dennis is reinforcing the notion that peace is more than a concept... that peace is something the people WANT... that the people are tired of the crumbs from the Centrist table. Dare to dream

Who Will You Vote For President?


George W. Bush (356 responses)- 5.3%

Carol Moseley Braun (125 responses)- 1.9%

Howard Dean (2313 responses)- 34.3%

John Edwards (16 responses)- 0.2%

Dick Gephardt (230 responses)- 3.4%

Bob Graham (14 responses)- 0.2%

John Kerry (82 responses)- 1.2%

Dennis Kucinich (3497 responses)- 51.9%

Joe Lieberman (42 responses)- 0.6%

Al Sharpton (63 responses)- 0.9%

6738 total responses


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-prez2004story,0,5467485.htmlstory?coll=ny-nationworld-nation-utility&vote8594962=1

LOL

Brought to DU's attention last night by a kind, well-wishing Dean supporter.

Sorry to disappoint you...

Say, Iranian Democrat, the 'spy-novelist within' would like to know ... Have you heard anything about the RETURN OF THE SHAH being another option considered against the Axis-of-Evil? What is your persepective on this? I think the plans are still on the table. Any thoughts?


Reza Pahlavi, Bob, Daniel Pipes, and hosts.


Senator Joseph Lieberman, Representative Joseph Hoeffel, meeting Bob

I have heard some awful things about that guy. Yes it was brought to us by a Dean supporter. Maybe its not right but it is a source of something, inspiration.

they make me warm up to Dean and try to see him in the same light they do- more than I normally would. ;)

We've got a couple "recovering Dean supporters" on our campaign....


They say they understand the process of recovery and are trying to help all the other Dean supporters through it... : )

We've been through a monarchy, and all that happened was that a U.S. controlled puppet gave away all the oil and his modernization efforts led to the "shitifying" of the country through the Revolution. I have heard things about maybe a CIA sponsered coup de tat (I am against it because any International meddling always ends up screwing over the people), but I don't have any hard evidence to suggest the U.S. is pursuing anything. If Iranians can topple their fascist conservative government by themselves and establish some sort of a social democracy, more power to them. But as long as CIA/Bush Co. gets involved in any revolution or overthrow, the puppet they establish as ruler of the country will only act in the best interest of America, not the Iranian people..

My concern though is that it may not only be limited to Bush and Co.

Do you ever read the stuff at Casi.org? I've pasted the link that has to do with this story below. There are so many circles within circles and over-lapping ones also that at the end of the day, I honestly don't know where Republicans begin and Democrats end.

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2002/msg01317.html

Whatever is in store, I hope the Persian people stay safe. I have too many beautiful friends there. All the Persians I've ever met, anywhere in the world were beautiful memorable people. Wishing you the best and peace too.

And thanks for the link.

I should also add, I've never met men as polite as Persians. My preferred boy-friend (from the past), even after 2 years, wouldn't turn his back on me as he left the room. It was an absolutely delicious relationship.

If you're ever out here, let me know... I'll make you a delicious Halal meal, saffron rice and all. Fesenjan is one of my favorite dishes :)

Peace

I was wondering what obscure, unwinable camp you were spawned of..........................


thankya much:bounce:

I have a new slogan for you.

DARE TO ADDRESS REALITY!

;)

and they're all Progressive!

Yahooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But Bob Hope has a better chance of being president than Dennis Kucinch.

He has a way to cut through the bs like crap through a goose.

feeding the freeper lurkers ;->

peace

I'm not a Kucinich supporter; heck I haven't made my mind up yet. I do respect his ability to stay his course.

unless clark were to agree to a cut in the "defense" spending kucinich would not run with him. i also like how he is respectful of wes clark for serving the country. this is consistent with kucinich.

Do you think that your guy Kerry would consider him as a VP if say things fall out. Kerry/Kucinich. I wouldnt mind that. I of course want DK to get the nod :).

i like kucinich very much, but have to tell the truth about this. kerry is not as liberal as kucinich so he probably wouldn't.kerry is a member of the dlc. i don't think kucinich would consider kerry either for the same reasons. but both guys do respect the others views. kerry because of his own involvement in opposition movements, protests etc. and kucinich because he respects those who serve the country. i love how kucinich sings patriotic songs and claims them for himself and his own liberal beliefs rather than allowing the right wing to abuse them as if they owned them.

Kerry aint so bad, I made him my backup/

This last one really shows you as an honest, thoughtful person. Best of luck to you :)

You know I love Dennis, but I think he's just, well, maybe he's just too good for us, ya know? Why don't you try spinning that one for a while. Dennis isn't too much to the left, he's just so much to the good, people don't understand.

Anyway, I see somebody like Edwards, Richardson from NM, somebody like that as VP under Kerry, or Dean. Well, Clark and Dean maybe. Not Kucinich, not right now. Funny thing is, if you really read the posts here, most people say the same thing as me. We all love Dennis, we just have no faith that the rest of the country would too. Maybe that says more about us then them. (not including you in the us part)

just really struck me hard in the chest and in the head. Look at what you wrote please and just think about it some, would you? No pressure but just think about it.

"You know I love Dennis, but I think he's just, well, maybe he's just too good for us, ya know? Why don't you try spinning that one for a while. Dennis isn't too much to the left, he's just so much to the good, people don't understand."

Maybe, but you know that sounds so much like selling ourselves short. He's so good a man we don't deserve him. Only the thing is we do deserve him, and HE even thinks we do! Help people understand, don't walk away and quit on good, sand, seriously! Don't quit on what you want and what we all deserve.

And that's all I'm going to say, just please look at what you yourself said and consider the implications, ok?

With utmost respect, Diamondsoul

that the American people are so sick of Bush, and Progressives so sick of how far right our party has shifted, that THIS, THIS NOW, is our opportunity to SEIZE the moment and put the most progressive candidate we possibly can in office.

We will probably never have such a chance again.

If you believe- if you dare to dream- make it happen!

Peace

"the primacy of the Pentagon"

don't you people get it??????

I fear, as with Adlai Stevenson, he may be too elevated in thought for this country. Our loss.

I dont know why this shocks many people. I can see it clear.

Like the whole Nader thing, I'm just fighting for the lost causes :shrug:

I honestly think Kucinich would do good with you guys. One of my other green friends here Ein really likes DK alot. I do like a lot of what the greens have to say and whoever said the green platform ought to be simliar if not the democratic one is right on.

Remember the old saying..."It always looks darkest just before the dawn.".

So ok, it looks pretty dark sometimes right now, but it isn't as dark as we think. It definitely isn't a "lost cause"! That I promise you! Things are happening we aren't talking about right now, stuff is moving, we just don't see it right this second. Don't you quit, ok?

You are not alone, my friend, not by a long stretch and I think you'll be surprised how much company you have.

We just needed people like you to have the vision to grease the skids for us, to make progressive wake up and say "wtf" and "no, we ain't taking it anymore!".

Peace and thanks

Could it be that we are on the verge of the part where it gets better?

Dare to believe!

On edit: What Diamondsoul said... the "darkest just before the dawn"...

Makes me sad, I really liked the guy too. Way to whoo people that respect a man that fought for his ass to be free to sit in Congress. How long did Kucinich serve in the military? If he didn't I can rule out ever supporting him. It will not be long before I settle on one candidate at this rate. I have so far ruled out only Dean and Lieberman.

Mike

He couldnt serve for the same reasons I cant. Maybe he doesnt want General Clark as his running mate.

He didn't serve for legit reasons - a heart condition. What is he going to do about that smart one? Go rip out someone elses heart and replace his? Of course you couldn't even bother to find out if he served or not by your self - something that should take all but 60 seconds.

He didn't disrespect Clark - maybe if you read the article you would see that. He commended him for his service, but said he would not toe the pentagon line.

Oh - and sorry to disapoint you, but this is not a military dictatorship. I don't care how much Clark served - he is not, as you seem to think, by default entitled to the position of Vice President or President of the United States because of that service.

"Way to respect..." Oh well boohoo. If Clark doesn't get the VP spot of any presidential candidate he wants he is disrespected now? Give me a break.

but I dont think General Clark would be good for Dennis. I am not sure really, Ive said congressman Lewis of Georgia or Senator Harkin of Iowa.

Looks like you've been around DU longer than I have but I don't recall meeting you.

Anyway, can I suggest you not let things like this get to you. You obviously know there are valid responses to the assertions, because you made them.

No offense meant, and I'm honestly not meaning to tell you how to post, just making a friendly suggestion...maybe try not to let them piss you off? That's what they want after all, so why feed them, right?

Peace.

It's just interesting when a person has supposedly only ruled out Dean and Lieberman (hmmm) and now is ruling out Kucinich when he hasn't even bothered to check to see if he had served or not when that is supposedly the entire factor as to rather or not he will support him.

But my suggestion is if we support Kucinich, and maybe you don't, I'm not sure, I just went by your reaction, making people madwon't get them to look. You see what I'm getting at?

Please by NO means think I don't understand!*LOL* I have my pretty nasty moments once in a while. I just try really, really hard not to because Dennis Kucinich wouldn't. Not only that but he needs support. If we're going to earn that from undecideds, that's what we have to set out with, not force it but earn it. Help Dennis EARN it, you see what I mean?

With absolute respect, as John mentioned Kucinich was diagnosed with a heart condition as a teen that precluded his being fit for military service. His brother was not so biologically lucky and did serve in Viet Nam.

It isn't a case of Kucinich respecting Clark. I'm quite certain he does. His point is that he doesn't want a militarily trained VP as a running mate. The reasoning is sound no matter how many may not like it. Heck, I'm not sure I like it, but I respect it.

I have a heart condition, if Dennis couldnt play high school sports he for sure couldnt join the military. Dennis did serve his contry another way he tried to better life for his neighbors and family though by running for city councilman.

He's served, it just wasn't in the military. Also there's not a damned thing wrong with favoring peace to the extent that one would avoid having what he believes to be a leading force in the war machine as a running mate. While it was a nice dream for me, I can understand and support Dennis' position.

That simple, I respect and desire peace. I'm willing to struggle to that end and so is Kucinich.

I'd say Harkin or Edwards. Politically, I'd say reconsider Clark, Kerry, Edwards and maybe someone unknown. I like the D Rep from Illinois who was speaking on the House floor today abt. Iraq. He was jsut impressive and sounded much like Kucinich.

That is so sad to stereotype people that way. I hope he doesn't do that to others.

Mike

If not then you don't know, and if so then you should. It's all a big brainwashing endeavor, and YES, I CAN say that because I've been in the service. Training, follow the training no matter what.

Kucinich doesn't want a brainwashed former military member, and with good enough reasons to suit me, as a former member. Can you dispute me?

*on edit, it;s late and I fixed typos, or so I hope! G'night all!

how is it that YOU are not brainwashed?

:shrug:

but Clark, having been a general, is unlikely to agree with Kucinich's views on cutting the Pentagon's budget. Kucinich himself did not serve in the military due to a heart murmur. He plans to increase military pay and veterans' benefits; it's the wasteful monies going to the defense contractors for things like the "missile defense shield" that he plans to cut.

On Edit: I grew up in a military family but I'm not sure I want Clark or any other career officer in the presidency or the vice presidency. I respect those who serve their country in the military but it is an entirely different type of service from public service and military command does not, in my view, prepare one well for the compromises and teamwork essential to civilian leadership. We already have a guy in the White House whose idea of bipartisanship is for both parties to do what he wants them to do.

Actually, Gen. Clark has come out publicly in favor of plans to cut Defense spending along the same lines as Kucinich advocates. I personally thought they would make good running mates for that reasons, but now I suspect a more fundamental difference of approach that Dennis isn't willing to accept.

at least in my eyes. I think the best would be a well known fighter and a populist,

Scarring on a heart valve kept him out of viet nam.

While he is the peace candidate, and the most outspoken politician out there when it comes to opposing our current military actions,
he is also a strong supporter of service men and women. Here is some of what he has to say about supporting our troops:

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/cdp0303/kucin0303spt.html


<snip>

We understand when the administration asks for support for the troops, they really mean support for the war. Let us support with gratitude our loved ones who serve. We know they're fearless, ready to put their lives on the line. Californians, let us support the troops, but not the mission. Let us support the troops, but not the administration. Let us support the troops by bringing the troops home alive and healthy.

The administration is calling on Americans to support the troops, but have they supported the troops who have served? Veteran's health benefits cut. Six month wait to get medical assistance. Doubling of co-payments for prescription drugs. Seventeen thousand new nursing home beds needed, been cut by a thousand beds. No money in the budget for shelter for 250,000 homeless veterans. The administration however has asked for $180 million for new cemeteries. Support the troops indeed.

<snip>

"In 1968, Senator Robert Kennedy spoke at Capetown, South Africa concerning the yoke of apartheid, which some believed would never be lifted, just as today some believe war is inevitable and will always be with us. He said to the students, Each time a man or a woman stands up for an ideal, acts to improve the lives of others, or strikes out against injustice, he or she sends forth a tiny ripple of hope. And crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples can create a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.

You and I are ripples of hope across the darkness of war. Let us with love of country bring the light of truth and the light of peace to our nation. California, there is not better time than now. Thank you for your support. ."

He said this to us on his recording when I was at Baltimore he was fighting a bill at the time. BTW thats my favorite RFK quote.

But in a recent interview he noted that he is from a 'family of military service,' with his father and two siblings having served. He also said that he was 'very disappointed' when he was classified as ineligible for military service because of a heart murmur. 'We need to expand the definition of services to one's country,' he said. 'All service is honorable.'
http://www.primarymonitor.com/news/stories2003/052503_service_2003.shtml

If the military service matters that much to you, take half of mine and chalk it up to Kucinich. I am proud to have served and proud to dedicate 10 of those years to him because while I was serving, he stood and fought for everything I believed in and was defending.

Let's make that 14 years to Kucinich... for the sheer courage to fight the "Primacy of the Pentagon", he can have the 4 years I served at that primal place.

Here's a picture of the man for whom over 90% are going to work our fingers to the bone- the man who is in the hearts because America can't afford to do anything but take a 180 degree turn right now.

Tinoire,
US Army, Retired
Proud Veteran for Peace

Veterans for Peace Mission Statement: We, having dutifully served our nation, do hereby affirm our greater responsibility to serve the cause of world peace by applying the concept of engaging conflict peacefully, without violence.

We know the consequences of American foreign policy because once, at a time in our lives, so many of us carried it out. We find it sad that war seems so delightful, so often, to those that have no knowledge of it. We will proudly, and patriotically, continue to denounce war despite whatever misguided sense of euphoria supports it. Wage Peace!


One of the guests of honor- the only candidate we were interested in hearing and who had the grace to re-arrange all his plans at the last minute to come meet with us.

Pax Americana

John F. Kennedy warned us about Pax Americana in a commencement speech given at the American University in Washington D.C. forty years ago on June 10, 1963. It is clear who JFK was warning us about. He said,

What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women--not merely peace in our time but peace for all time. http://www.metaphoria.org/

WAGE PEACE

Veterans for Peace, Inc. (VFP) is a non-profit 501(c)(3) educational and humanitarian organization dedicated to the abolishment of war. VFP was founded in 1985 by ex-service members committed to sharing the horrors they experienced.

Hell if this was WWII and I couldnt serve I would be. Sorry if I sound a wee bit nutty but I think seeing war first hand would make me even more of a dove and Dennis too. Amazing Dennis isnt a vet but he knows war is terrible.

about feeling bad that his brothers served and he couldn't. That sense of duty, you know?

"...man that fought for his ass to be free to sit in Congress."

Vietnam? Our freedom hardly rode on this dastardly war in Southeast Asia!

Numerous "Military Actions"?? Which one made DK's "ass" "free to sit in Congress.."???

Gulf War I? The first war on Iraq had nothing to do with the freedom of America - only the Bush family and Kuwait, Inc.

His War on Yugoslavia?? Is that illegal bombing of the people of Yugoslavia the war that kept DK's "ass" "..free to sit in Congress"??

By the way, if you want insight into why Kucinich said what he did about Clark - read this about Yugoslavia by Kucinich:
http://www.progressive.org/kuc899.htm

On the issues of War and Peace, Dennis Kucinich is nothing - if not consistent.

And Wesley Clark has not "fought" for Dennis Kucinich to be free to sit in Congress. Wesley Clark, in my opinion, has been part of the problem - certainly not part of the solution.

I didnt know he was like first or second generation though. BTW that whole area is where my grandfather is from, we are Slovenes and we were unaffected but this Slovene offers his pities to those innocents who died.

With either man at the top of the ticket. It's just incongruous, IMO.

DTH

If Clark thinks he can win a general election with "market fundamentalism" and more outsourcing, more NAFTA, and more trickle-down economics, he's not as smart as I thought.

Clark can win if he gets an economic progressive platform. Otherwise, he'll never make it out of the gate.

I agree with you on how Clark should come down on the economic issues. But he doesn't have to pair with Kucinich to express himself on those issues, IMO.

DTH

Kucinich would give him that. What else you got?

It's a sad day when Democrats feel they have to run Clark for President of the US - a guy with no political experience at all, and with out any kind of actual economic plan when it is such a key issue. Of course, by running Clark you will have conceeded security and you will be way too busy dealing with the issues in that regard to make an effective focus on the economy anyway.

Never mind we have 9 candidates - a couple VERY qualified for the job that have a proven political history and platform. After all, we only have to face another 4 years of Bush if we fail so let's screw around with a political novice and see what happens.

Clark is a politician too, just a military politician, not a Senator or Governor. Clark will win the swing-voters and moderates we have to get to win the general election. Clark needs someone like Kucinich, a progressive, to shore up the base. Let Clark be a moderate.

Otherwise we're wasting our time.

He impresses me more and more.

Thank you Cong. Kucinich, thank you. If there were more like you out there the world would be an entirely different place.

DK speaks the truth!

:kick:

Keeps his options open and avoids offending anyone.

Kucinich, as one would expect, decided, instead, to go with the honest answer, an answer that follows directly from the principles that motivated him to run for the Presidency. Can't ask for much more than that. No wonder Mike Malloy supports him.

me making plans for a hot weekend in
Cancun with Gwyneth Paltrow.

Make sure to pack that teddy, Gwyneth.