Bumper sticker: "Real Men Love Jesus!" What's wrong with this?

I am reminded of an essay by Mark Twain, where he critiqued a paragraph by James Fenimore Cooper, and found 45 errors in 37 words. I find this offensive on so many levels. Can you guess what they are?

--IMM

than anyone else. I expect a few fist fights out of this bumper sticker.

It sounded like a challenge.

--IMM

I'm not kidding. I was invited to a social by a religious group (Mormons?) and found myself playing a weird game with five other couples. It was like the dating game, but with married couples. They would ask questions of the spouses, and then later bring the other spouse in to answer the question. I think one of the questions was, "What do you want your husband to do that he doesn't do?" The wife wanted her husband to french kiss her. (Not there, exactly, at home in private.) When the husband was told what she wanted, he made a disgusted face as in, eewwwwww.

We're gonna have to get the Newspeak Lingo down pretty quick to survive in the next decade.

or homosexuals for that matter?

Oh that Jesus........a persons religious beliefs should not be treated with such disdain, unless you are certain that those beliefs influence political choices that jeopardize the rights of others, and , in this case, you do not know that.

If this is true then the contrapositive is also true, that being:

If you do not love Jesus then you are not a real man.

How do you like that one?

I think that Mexican homosexuals are OK.

--IMM

Waste of time and alienation of a lot of religious people. That sign in no way indicates a political bent, you know.It merely notes that religious belief is not unmanly, which in fact it is not.Also it doesn't imply , as you suggest, the opposite view, only in the mind of someone who has made a prejudgment.

You think this doesn't alienate non-religious people. It says, If you are a real man (whatever that means) then you love Jesus.

How, in the light of this, can you be a real man if you don't love Jesus?

What you imply is that they don't really mean or know what they are saying. Inconsequential, only in the sense that i do not tke it personally, mutter, "What a schmuck," and let it go.

--IMM

Reading is a part of the problem, of course, but understanding and actually thinking things through really,truly helps as well.

No I do not imply any such thing, what you are doing is beginning with your mind made up and then everything else is so simple....well life ain't at all like that, sorry.Oh and by the way, try reading and attempting to understand what I say not making up your own interpretations.

For a long time, among churchgoers, it has been thought that weekly worship was for the women (read weaker folks). This bumper sticker is stating only that it is not womanly to attend a church service.

Then you, with your prejudgments firmly in hand, distort and use this to your own end. This is no attack on those who do not believe it is only an affirmation for those who do.......If you held your beliefs a bit less insecurely you just might not be so threatened by the beliefs of others.

You say I don't know what that bumper sticker means, but you know what I mean?

You know that church goers think it's womanly. You know that I hold my beliefs insecurely. You know I'm threatened. You have this tremendous insight that no one else possesses?

But I can't possibly know what this bumper sticker means?

If it means what you think it means, why doesn't it say, "Church is not only for women"? How do you know it's "only" saying what you think it means, instead of what it says?

I don't think, and I don't read? Can you back that up? How do you know my mind's made up?

Ptooie!

--IMM

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for one. It implies that some of the best guys I know aren't real men.

Therefore, if you ARE country...

Give it a rest already. Ardee's post #10 is an intelligent response.

You are posing the converse. The truth of which is not determinable from the original implication. For a further explanation, see my post #45.

My logic is sound. And who knows, you could learn something from someone less intelligent than you. Thanks.

--IMM

but the importance is questionable. My response was illustrative. I could have easily posed, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (By the way, the REAL question should always have been not how many angels, but how close to the edge without falling off.)

I just wanted to make sure you weren't going after straw dogs.

And yer durn tootin' that I can learn -- not from one less intelligent -- but from one who has a divergent viewpoint.

I believe real intelligence to be the recognition that one can always learn from others (sermons in stones sort of thing...)

Having said all of that, I will now go and check out post #45 for logical cohesion.

If you ain't an American, you ain't a Texan. (True)

Here's the converse:

If you are an American, you are a Texan. (False. In logic, it must always be true to be a true statement.

Here's the contrapositive:

If you are a Texan, you are an American. (It's as true as the original statement.

Like I said. It's right out of the text book.

Most times, when I get wound up in an argument here. I'm just using text book logic and the other party doesn't accept that.

I wouldn't say that the impotance is questionable. I might say it's debatable. This thread illustrates two things (at least) (1) Tactictics used by fundamentalists, and (2) Using real logic in an argument. IMHO, not just trivialities. There is also some funny stuff here, and I value that a lot.

--IMM

Well, I guess the response is: Jesus Loves Real Men!

The discussion then deteriorates into what makes a "real" man. Whatta buncha blahooie.

you are an effeminate faggot?

Remember that many large christian denominations (Catholics, etc.) do NOT have a "personal relationship with Jesus" as part of their doctrine.

..with the concept of personal reliationship with god. Just the "real men" thing.

Believe me the Church has 2000 years of vast experience viith junk like that. usually RC's try to get impressed with the latest insight of some university theologian. What a rush. They even whole heartedly assimilated this personal relationship meme too, believe me. Right in Confirmation guidelines although the subtle difference in what RC's mean and the Fundies mean is what should be honestly examined. It vacates the simplistic nonsense of the iteration as mere cultic gush.

My relationship is one of a shared fire. Lo and behold that might be the same Spirit they always gush about but which never seeks compassion or justice or love of neighbor. Fanatical adoration does not impress Jesus. He said so, so get over it. Amazing how they become unable to quote Jesus once they get that personal relationship. All fandom, no empathy.

I share the immense love and sadness and revulsion and rebellion of Jesus in his confrontations with followers and enemies with mankind as it is. it is not all joy and sweetness, but the peace is deeper, the hope remains whatever happens.

Men who are the real thick Evangelical types are pretty much considered wimps. And if you see them you will know why. They usual have real short hair and their pants are too short. They just don't tend to be what one considers "a real man" to look like.

I think this is a way to try to get the guy guys to join up and not see themselves as joing a wimp organization.

I've got to say that the guys I see at the Bible Class Breakfasts are pretty wimpy looking - but boy do they talk about sex a lot. And the problems they have with the sin of sex and looking at attractive women.

Its like being in an alien world - you have to be there to believe it.

--IMM

with Jesus Christ.

That's just false.

I'd like to read his Cooper critique. He liked to pick on him. I don't know if this is the same one where he blasts him about the Indian attacking the barge from a tree? It's hilarious -- from "The Last of the Mohicans"

I see those B. Stickers around here a lot. For some reason they aren't content with their beliefs unless everybody else knows about them.
"I art holier than thouoowow. Nanner nanner nanner!"

Also "Eve's Diary," favorite part of which, Eve points out that the lion, which lives with them in the Garden, is carnivorous.

--IMM

If "real men" love him, why do they hate us so much ? :shrug:


:hippie:

But not so much since.

--IMM

You want to take offense without also sounding anti-gay. It has an echo of Real Men Don't Cry or Don't Eat Quiche which really cheapens the love and the Entity involved on the crass bumper sticker.

Also something rings about that love which implies they don't have a rat's clue about who Jesus is except as a cult icon, safely removed. Real Cult Leaders Don't Need Your Love. They want you to get the picture.

That's the level on which I am offended.

--IMM

who really love Jesus? Real men like Francis of Assisi, Martin Luther King, Philip Berrigan, Oscar Romero, Demond Tutu, Gene Robinson?

Okasha

:silly:

If you don't, you really ought to do some research before spreading your hatred for anything religious

Yes I do know who those people are. I don't have hatred for anybody. I respect (and follow, pretty much) the teachings of Jesus. I'll admit I don't accept the divinity part. I don't hate anybody who does. And again, you can't back up your statements.

My original post asks a question. You disagree with most of the answers that have been posted, but that's OK with me.

What does the phrase "real man" mean to you? When you make a generalization such as this, your knowledge of logic will tell you the word "all" is implied.

--IMM

.

The phrase on the bumper sticker is in the form of an implication, or conditional. It is read as:

(If you are) real men, (then you) love Jesus.

Such generalizations must be true in all cases in order to be true. If I said that some <ethnic group> loved a <particular food,> and you could find one exception, you could accuse me of stereotyping and you would be right, and the statement would be considered false. Try it, fill the blanks.

The contrapositive of an implication, (that is, the inverse of the converse) will have the same truth value as the original statement. In this case, the contrapositive is:

If you don't love Jesus, then you are not real men.

This is inherent in the bumper sticker itself. I does not matter who is driving the truck, or what he thinks it means. That is what it says.

This is not a thoughtless diatribe. Don't underestimate people.

Respectfully,
--IMM

I am religious and not a Christian. Evangelical Christianity has turned into a Doomsday cult. Sad.

real men never say they are sorry, real men carry guns, real men swear and spit, real men eat meat, real men vote repuke, real men love war, real men bomb people, real men ignore the ills of society, real men only read the foot ball stats....add your own.

Personally, what would have been clever, rather than "real"men love jesus. It should have read "reel" men love jesus. Hence the whole fishermen thing, but there I go thinking again.

I can't find anything wrong with that.

--IMM

or you won't get that sticker :crazy:

men of integrity, dignity and honor, not a measure of testosterone. Thomas Jefferson would probably be a "real man." Scott Thompson would also be a "real man." Commitment to one's ideals and principles and the ability to speak truth to power.

I believe that this is a viable interpretation.

If you don't love Jesus then you can't be a "real man" of integrity, dignity and honor. It only insults 80% of the world's population, though. I'll give you that. Oh wait, half of those are women.

So it only insults 40%, not even a majority.

--IMM

So, you love Jesus.... SOOOOOO???? Why trumpet it for all to hear and see? Are you insecure or something?

they say that cat jesus is a bad mutha . . .

SHUT YOUR MOUTH

i'm only talking about jesus

THEN WE CAN DIG IT

It's pronounced "Hay-soos".

Real men DO love Jesus. He drinks, he drives like a maniac, he's got tattoos all over his left arm, he was bungee jumping before it was cool... we even went base jumping once. He's frigging insane.

I love Jesus, and you should too. Unless you're a pansy!

:P

can't they love Jesus too???


I have one that says..."Jesus loves me but can't stand you"...I haven't put it on my car yet as I bet my tires would be slahsed...

BTW, I think James Fenimore Cooper was the most overrated American EVER. God, I hated Last of the Mohicans.

was bad but do we have to do that too.

Of course it explains all those problems in the Catholic church.

PROMISE KEEPERS :puke:

Or would a man loving Jesus be considered a civil union?

:headbang:
rocknation

I find the raw arrogance of that sticker very insulting and very unchristian.

Perhaps adding the following two stickers to the back of their car would make a point to them of just how rude that statement it.

"The Lord is my butt pilot."

and

"Gay sex for God."

n/t

I don't see the word "All" in the sentence, so who gives a crap? If you are offended by a bumpersticker, I suggest your problem isn't with the other guy.

Real men don't whine!

Let me illustrate.

Consider the statements:
Squares are rectangles.
Ducks are birds.
The "all" is implied in a generalization. Just like the "you" as a subject is implied in an imperative sentence. As in (You) Sit down!

Simple logic is as I explained in my post #45. It's straight out of the text book, I assure you.
--IMM

it assumes "all"

imagine what a freeper would say if it said "Real Men voted for Kerry."

You can buy that at:

http://www.evolvefish.com

You know, I am a person of faith, but that sticker is just brutally hilarious :)

n/t

called Promise Keepers. A group of "Christian" men who's mission is to make sure every husband and father in America is a baptized "Christian" who follows the "infallible word of god as presented in the bible"(don't ask them which god or which bible that just pisses them off). In other words they want to get back to when men were men, you know, the crusades, burning witches, that kind of thing, and the women stayed dutifully at their mens side, barefoot and pregnant. I had the luck :eyes: of doing some video projection for them at an event here in Denver a couple years ago. Being a Jew in an arena full of these self-righteous assholes was like being a black man at a KKK rally. They spent quite a bit of time "converting" Jews ("real men" who weren't afraid to admit that the religion that was passed down to them from generation to generation was blasphemy) and making sure that any Jew in the audience knew that he was going to hell if they didn't get in line to be Baptized. By the time it was over I didn't care if I was going to hell tommorow, as long as I didn't have to listen to these assholes anymore...

In black, red and white, with a muscular arm thrusting the cross into the air, like leading a massive crowd. I see this on an old VW van every day near where I work, and it sends a chill up my spine every time.