Traitor Gephardt's Pres. Campaign officially OVER!

As far as I'm concerned. The so-called "workers' friend" Gephardt COULDN'T BE BOTHERED to come in and vote against the Repugs' filthy overtime changes. Along with 6 other turncoat dems who abstained, he helped the vicious legislation pass by only three votes.

I have refrained from bashing any candidates until now, but this betrayal is too much. He deserves to lose whatever weak support he has.

Also, let's go rate this story high, so it can at least get the attention it deserves.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030711/bs_afp/us_economy_social_030711203412


Yet another step backwards. Crap.

On EDIT:

For the guy that questions the veracity of Gep's backstabbing, here is another link, check out who voted for, against, and who couldn't be bothered.

http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=1356310

Kucinich will get the AFL CIO's endorsement then. I have been cool with Gebby too but that was wrong and I hope the unions turn to my good friend, Dennis Kucinich no hes not my friend but hes a friend of the people.

I dunno.

Screw him.

Actually I dont....Nevermind. :evilgrin:

Even a dull-as-dishwater Beltway insider like Gephart is better than what's squatting in Al Gore's house now.

ANYBODY BUT BUSH.

We are obligated to criticize candidates who would fail us/screw us like this.

So no, I will not be on a months-long campaign to try and destroy Gephardt, but I believe everyone should be alerted to what happened yesterday (thanks to Mike Malloy for mentioning it on the air). And I will not be giving this man my vote in the primaries. I've had enough.

Absolutely.

and doesn't bother to vote on a crucial issue regarding workers rights - then he shouldn't be running at all. He should be showing by actions that he would change things - not just by words. That's what the current misadministration does repeatedly. We don't need more of the same.

edit: may have come out differently than intended. Meaning that the current misadministration does one thing while saying another.

GEPTHARDT? WHY?????? He was at the National Machinist Union Convention today in Cincinnati, Ohio.....So was Howard Dean....Gep got the pat on the back??????

Any machinist out there asking questions?

This really bothers me, as someone who is pretty pro-Gephardt, even though he's not my first choice (Kucinich of course!).

But would his vote have made a difference? Let's not be naive about politics, missing votes is common and often a tactic.

If Gephardt's vote would have prevented it from passing, then he screwed up big time, and since he's a long time politician with many compromises and bad choices, he can't afford many more screw-ups.

I'm withholding judgement until I see the vote count.



Edited for really bad spelling errors. Probably missed a few.

in the second link on the original post.

We lost it by 3 votes, with 7 democrats not showing up. W never know what might have happened had they done their job.

A lot of things are "commonly done" Running red lights, fudging on taxes. Because they are common doesn't mean we should overlook them, particularly when they may have made a huge difference.

Geeze the apathy over voting even extends to our congressmen?

No wonder people dont vote in the elections

Gephardt should be ashamed as should the Dem turncoats.

What's worse is the effect that their ineffectiveness will have on millions of families that depended on the overtime provision.

Assholes.

as a gesture of goodwill and you have to wonder what the hell is going on.

Gephardt as a Representative has no say at all about judges.

and this one said that he got the support of yet another major union

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/gephardt.union.ap/

I think Gep is still alive, thanks. :-)

Here's the g.d. link:

http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=1356310

but we still don't know his reason, or what his position is on the issue.

He's got a good enough record over the years to give him the benefit of the doubt, imo, until we know where he's coming from.

not about approving new storm drains for the congressional subway. There are some votes that should not be abstained from, especially by a man who would be our president. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for supporting Dumbya's oil war, but this is the last straw. Don't forget, it was Gep's leadership that got us the house of reps that we have today.

Overall, his voting record is okay, but he seems to always sell us out at the most crucial times.

the rest of the Democratic Leadership on the Iraq vote. He went behind their backs and sidled up next to Bush in the Rose Garden, effectively cutting off any and all debate on the issue. This is what makes him far worse than any of the other candidates regarding the Iraq vote. It would have been bad enough to go along and vote for the resolution, but what Gephardt did was beyond inexcusable. He used his leadership position to basically stop the debate. I don't care how good his record has been. He betrayed the Democratic party, and because of that he doesn't deserve to be their candidate for president.

doesn't show up for one of the most important votes in years for labor doesn't deserve "the benefit of the doubt." This action by Gebhardt is political suicide.

Loretta Sanchez couldnt be bothered? Dooley voted with Republicans, no surprise but I will make sure he hears about it, and the voters do to. MAKE THIS AN ISSUE!

But Jane Harmon, and Loretta Sanchez as well ! ....

FUCK ! ....

WTF is WRONG with our Party ??? ....

DAMN us .....

DAMN us all to HELL ! ....

Gephardt, Sanchez and Harmon.

Kucinich caught hell from the NAACP for not appearing at their forum. Kucinich did what was right and that was tend to business in DC - he said he needed to be there for this vote and now we see why. It was SO close. His name is there with a "Y" - of course! Thank you, Dennis --- where were those Democrats who could have defeated this thing? For Gephardt to miss for ANY reason is inexcusable.

14 republicans voted against the amendment to block this and 5 did not vote. Plenty of those votes were available if needed. The vote would never have been allowed if the republicans did not have the votes.

And you don't think we could've managed a 100% turnout for this crucial vote? You can't say for sure that all those pukes would have come. At least they could say they tried, but they didn't try, and another piece of hard-won job security is destroyed for millions.

Particularly good ol' Jim McDermott. As for Gephardt absent....WHERE WERE YOU??? You might as well forget becoming president! How spineless can you get?

John

I'll hold my nose once again and support any Democratic. Even Gephardt.

Should get the union support. He was there, he voted for the amendment to block.

Once again, he shows himself to be a man of his word as well as integrity.

who would have otherwise voted FOR the overtime rip-off? Several Rethugs didn't vote.

Also -- as "Snippy" pointed out, the Rethugs had the votes. Their usual practice when ramrodding something this vile is for the Rethugs with safe seats to vote FOR, and allow the Rethugs who are more vulnerable to vote AGAINST or abstain.

Of course, the problem with pairing is that it lets the Rethugnican off the hook; better to show up and vote and thereby force the Rethug to cast an unpopular vote that can be used against him.

Nevertheless, if Gephardt did pair, it's still far better than simply not showing up.

Vitruvius

P.S: I favor Kucinich or Dean; Gephardt is weak, IMHO.

Being absent is a way to dodge accountability for both parties. If all the dems showed up and voted, more Repukes (in moderate/liberal areas?) would have to show up to counter them and be held accountable by their constituents, or vote with our side, as several republicans did. to their credit.

I don't see why we should let Gephardt off the hook just because this was a tough vote, or Pelosi for not mustering the votes, for that matter. But Pelosi isn't running for President is she?

One last kick.

I hope nobody forgets this vote when they talk about Gephardt over the water cooler.

At first I thought maybe there was something wrong with the bill, like a killer amendment that got by.

But if the Washington State Dems all voted FOR it, that explanation looks very unlikely.

The only other explanation would be the Bill was brought to the floor unexpectedly when Gephardt had to be out of town. You KNOW he would NEVER have voted against or abstained on an issue like this. If he is on a flight to Missouri when he learns the bill is hitting the floor in an hour, there is nothing he can do about it.

People in the House of Representatives do not have the filibuster to use to delay things, like the Senate does. They can be screwed this way.

Let's hold our fire until we get the whole story.

But in the stories it's clear that a Yes vote meant a for FOR the amendment STOPPING the disgusting GOP destruction of overtime. Get it? If your guy voted yes, he's a real democrat. If he/she voted no, or abstained, he/she is a shiftless turncoat like Gephardt.

You say wait fot the real story to come out. Who is going to question Gephardt and hold his feet to the fire if not us democrats? The whore press? Please - they snickered and let it die - I can hardly find this story anywhere - certainly no headlines. Hopefully Arianna Huffington or somebody will do some op/ed pieces on it.

We (and by we, I include Bartcop, Buzzflash, and other left web presences) need to hold these assholes' feet to the fire. They are NOT earning their paychecks.

He is on my short list of candidates and I find this disturbing.

I think he has the experience and appeal to middle America that would make him electable. I would vote for any Democrat over Bush*, at this point, and thought Gephardt stood a good chance. I just hope hasn't blown it.:shrug:

Only the criticisms laid out in this thread, as well as the fact that he has run for pres. a fre times before, and never gotten that much of a following.

If I were going to "trash" someone, it would be someone who is a real threat to my candidates, Dean and Kucinich, and of course that woud be John Kerry. Plenty of people have been bashing Kerry on this board over little comments and what not, but it's their votes that I'm concerned with.

I would be somewhat disappointed if Kerry gets the nom, but will gladly vote for him over Dumbass Bush. If by some strange twist of fate, Gephardt actually gets the nom (highly unlikely IMO) I will also hold my nose and vote for him.

I don't think Gephardt is the spawn of Satan (Bush is) but I don't think he stands up for democrats when it counts.

Now I'm fuming. Absolutely fuming.

Why should I support the Dems if THAT is how they're going to act?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:kick:

I partially diagree with the namedropping, Jiacinto seems to be a reasonable sort of chap... But, quite, it's sad that some Dems (not Jiacinto as he only seems to hate Nader, understandably) will be vicious will blame Greens for everything yet wonder why we have Dems who are obviously capitulators or outright pukes in Dem clothing (like Biden - who I've renamed "bidet" because that's what he is, Berman, and Miller...)

This thread's been up 24 hours, and in spite of a rather controversial topic, it has attracted rather few flames from Gephardt's supporters OR detractors. This means one of two things: People fon't care about the overtime changes (doubtful) or they don't care about washed-out Geppy.

I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Geppy didn't need me to pronounce his campaign dead, because it's already lying in a trench, sprinkled with lime, next to the corpses of Lieberman, Sharpton, and Mosely-Braun's campaigns.

Face it, it's down to Dean, Kerry, or Edwards.

I didn't include Kucinich or Graham in the "corpses", because I do wish them well...

I've not replied up until now, basically for the reason you suggest.

This thing is between Kerry, Dean, and Edwards.

Lieberman and Gephardt, both, get on my nerves, wasting everyone's time and money like they're doing. Yeah, they should run if they want, blah blah blah.

when I talked to a man who was very high up in his union (retired now). He was a union officer for decades and he is choosing between Dean, Kerry, and Lieberman. That speaks volumes (I am from Ohio so no home turf advantate). The only think that I could see in any candidates favor over Gep for him would be Kerry being Catholic. But so is Kucinich. Again Gep not even making the final three for him spoke volumes.

Gephardt supporters don't like flame wars, they just like Gephardt.

Sorry you were disappointed, maybe call Dean a traitor for that pro-DLC statement he made, and you'll get the brawl you're looking for.

Gephardt has a long record of supporting working class Americans. Most of Gephardts supporters don't spend all day posting to internet forums. That's what Dean supporters do (and Kucinich's, one of my favorites).

You can complain about his war vote, just like Kerry's. I'd still rather vote for someone with a clear consistent record of voting for the working class, than fakers like ex-DLC Dean and DLC Kerry, who never met a corporate trade agreement they could sign fast enough.

That's the problem with the upper middle class white liberals who post to these forums - they tend to think of themselves as representative of the Democratic party, but they aren't.

Dean's unelectable, and Kerry's just another rich Skull and Bones Yalie. Give me Gephardt anyday.

:D

So I'm gonna bump it one last time so I can rest assured everyone's seen it.

OK, he didn't vote.

He had better have one doozy of an excuse. It is all but impossible to think of a more important close vote for organized labor and workers in general. To miss this vote is dumbfounding. Unlike the idiocy with the abortion vote and Kerry and Edwards, this vote may well have mattered. Unbelievable.

Two moderate republicans voting "yea" for cover with a local constituency would have been forced to vote "nay". Even had that not happened, was the bill expected to die in the Senate? Is Gephardt going to choose his battles based on whether they can be won?

I thought Gephardt was supposed to be a big union supporter, and an advocate of the average working stiff.

This looks really, really, really bad.

I don't think he deserves the nomination. Dems should remember this betrayal, and if his candidacy somehow rises, we cannot let him forget this. He has some explaining to do, at the very least.

Kucinich is a better workers' rights supporter, anyway.

He was before this vote, and he still is.

Kucinich is the one candidate who has really strong leadership qualities.

AND, we should all remember to let folks know how blithely they are betrayed on a daily basis by those lackeys of the simian gang.

Ok. UAW here and I this does upset me a bit, especially because Dick has and is one of our true friends. I also realize that Dick's Gephardt's record, especially in the last 15 years on issues important to me has been amazing. I mean the guy has led the fight against horrible trade agreements like NAFTA, China PNTR, GW Bush's FastTrack grab, Foreign Steel Imports, CBBI and most recently the Chile and Singapore agreements.

Moreover, I remember reading a story back during the NAFTA debate how Dick Gephardt stayed up for hours on ends dredging his ass through DC trying to kill NAFTA. I think the guy even contracted a viral infection because of the sleep gaps? He did that even though most thought it was a lost cause. The guy went down fighting and didn't back down from the President! We are grateful for that!

Union people have not forgot that. Trust me. These unions that are endorsing him realize his committment and record. I imagine several more will be coming on board.

While I'm mad at Gep for missing, my real anger is directed toward Elaine Chao. This lady is the "Greatest Secretary of Labor in the History of the Soviet Union." She has no regard for unions and goes to bed everynight with the dreams "union busting" filling her head.

Let's not lose sight of the big picture. 3.5 million jobs lost on Bush/Chao watch. With the manufacturing unit one of the hardest hit. The saddest thing is that they don't seem to even care! It's bleak out here and showing no signs of improvement. I know so many folks who have lost jobs because their company has packed up to take advantage of cheap labor somewhere that it makes my actually start crying sometimes.

I know we all have our issues! And I know several here have crucified Dick for his war vote, but based on his record Dick Gephardt will be a champion for people like me in the White House. I'm sticking with him. This is the DU, and I'll be supporting whoever we nominate. Go ahead and wish ill will on me because of it, but I just can't ignore his past. Thanks for listening!

WE NEED CHAO OUT!

that we would all do well to remember. Your knowledge on this subject will be a good education for Gephardt's detractors. Welcome to DU, BrewCrew! :toast:

I am a Gephardt supporter and I will not erase eveything good he has done and will do with one missed vote. It may have been important, but maybe why he missed it was important too. Knowing him after having several discussions with him, I know there has to be a good reason. I hate when people jump to conclusions without bothering to find out the specifics. I will ask the people I know who are close to him and report back when I find out. I wish Republicans were as fast to throw out "good" people as Democrats are, but then that's why they are in power.

Even missed the 217-216 vote this past week for the Head Start vote. One of the Repubs was brought in in a wheel-chair but Dick couldn't be bothered. Shameful for ANY Democrat let alone one running for the nation's highest office.

Try missing 108 votes this year. I think Dick is a good man but he has not been doing the job he was sent to Washington to do. I have not taken sides with any candidate against another but I regret Dick has seen fit to abandon his duty in such a glaring fashion.

Dean has never even had any experience in Washington at all and you think missing 108 votes makes Gep the one guy you can find fault with? Maybe in 26 years he's figured out a few things! He's not the kind of guy to shirk his duty. They DO know how these votes are going to go before they happen. Maybe he missed the ones he knew he couldn't make a difference on. Maybe it has to do with Republican control. I dare say there's not much the Dems can do these days if the Republicans decide they want something. They HAVE the votes they need.

of his public duty. I don't know where you live but if MY Senator missed that many votes I would be letting him know about it and looking for a replacement from our own Party. You cannot defend the indefensible.

and a 100% these last two years. He only voted once against something they wouldnt like.

I know! Dennis is AWESOME! I'm a huge fan of his. He's my #2. That repeal NAFTA committment is music to a lot of people's ears. If this President thing doesn't work out, I hope the party realizes how good he is a gives him a leadership post. Unions are really missing something now that Bonior and Gephardt are both no longer in leadership. I just fear too may people see Denni s as "too progressive" Not a bad thing at all in my book, but hey.

Kucinich's record is 98%, 57 out of 58 votes. Gephardt is 88%, 298 out of 338 votes. And that doesn't even tell the whole story. I'm sure some of those bills had a greater impact on working families than did others, some may have been tougher politically than others. A 98% rating is great but it's still on a sprint.

Please don't make a DU headline that is false. I looked at this because I thought it was accurate news. If all you had was your opinion, that's okay -- just don't overblow it -- or you're material for the White House PR team, matie!

If you just wanted to bellyache over Gephardt, please be honest about it in your subject line. I might well have had a look, for REAL reasons; as it is -- you are totally not cool to have lied in your headline.

There are many people who rely on DU for their news, which you surely know if you have ever posted in LBN. This may be a different forum, but I have no doubt that of the hundreds of people who are in this forum at any one time, many only took a look at the subject line and assumed it meant some kind of ``official'' news or announcement. As Gringo said, it's too late to remedy that, but it's an important lesson to remember in future. An awful lot of the faithful post on DU. I believe that Gephardt is experienced and, yes, moderate enough to attract a national following. We cannot win with a candidate who is shrill enough to have marginalized himself. I have a couple of candidates in mind who I would readily vote for, but we're looking to attract a majority of the American public, not just liberals or those who truly hate Bush*. We all need to be on the same team, here. Would anyone here prefer four more years of Bush* to Gephardt? At this point, after the last several months of serial lying, unprovoked attacks, assassinations and bloodshed, I would vote for my local dogcatcher over Bush*. At least he knows what it's like to work for a living. I would welcome the experience, sympathy for the working man and compassion of Gephardt.

He knows every democrat will vote for him in the end. For instance; is there anyone here that would give Bush their vote instead?

He has never , never, never, never been for the people!!!

He has always been out for himself.
He has sold his fellow Congressional Colleagues down the
tube on Iraq...
And he has always had VANITY hang ups!!!

President????..........NEVER!!!!!

I thought Gep had announced something. Give this "officially over" crap a break, okay? Please find some other way to express your disdain than false advertising.

I think folks want to continue commenting on this but it's too bad that that subject line keeps getting kicked.

I hate commenting because it means more people will see that subject line

which is very clear in the text of my post. At any rate, it's way too late to edit the header. I lost interest in this thread ages ago, but people keep resurrecting it. Sorry to kick it again!

Pelosi knew that DeLay and Hastert could easily convince a handful of Republicans to vote their way on the bill if it got really close, and said, hey, Gep, and you other guys, no need to come in, we'll lose anyway. So they didn't.

But every member of Congress is always in contact with their party's leader when they're running for president, so that they know whether or not it will make a big difference if they come in and vote on a particular bill.

He needs to do it or get the hell out of D.C.

He's busy trying to find another job, for starters. Most people in Congress have a tendency to miss votes when they run for another office, especially president. This is nothing new.

Second, he isn't running for re-election. What more do you think Gephardt should do, for crying out loud?

As I said, it was probably irrelevant whether he voted or not. I'm willing to bet you lots of money that he'd have made that vote if he wasn't running for president, or that he'll make votes where it really matters.

Kerry misses votes. Edwards misses votes. Graham misses votes.

In fact, Lieberman, Kucinich and Gephardt, if I'm not mistaken, just recently got hell from the NAACP for missing one of their events BECAUSE they had to go vote on a bill. So it looks like Mr. Gephardt (and any other Congressional Democrat in the race) is getting mixed messages to me.

I wonder, where do you stand on that? Be careful, now, you can't have it both ways.

Just because some others do it doesn't excuse Gebhardt. Would you vote for someone who told you he would miss 108 votes and take the last year and a half off to run for another office? I doubt anyone would. He ran for the Senate, he needs to be there to do a Senator's job. Personally, I have always liked Dick but his behavior lately has been inexcusable. There is no defense for missing that many votes.

He's not a senator, he's a congressman. It sounds like you just want to complain about him. Everyone you vote for will miss votes while they are running for re-election or a new position. If they didn't, you wouldn't know to vote for them. And they really do know their business better than we do. He knows when his vote will make a difference and I'm sure he's there for those votes.

reminds me of repugs who say "The President has intelligence we don't have, and we trust his judgment to attack whatever country he sees fit. He's a Christian man, and we believe in him."

What makes you think that Gphardt "knew his vote wouldn't make a difference", or that the former minority leader couldn't gather the needed votes to stop that thing? Has Gephardt even bothered to address this non-vote publicly? Didn't think so.

I'm not entirely unwilling to give Gephardt the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen nothing so far to make me change my mind. He should apologize to all American workers for missing that vote, and not fighting it the same way he apologized to the NAACP for blowing off their convention.

I know he's in the House. Too much politics for me lately! LOL!

So that the voters of his district have someone in there to represent. What is he accomplishing by keeping to title and salary, but neglecting the duty?

Yes, Gephardt missed the vote, but have you bothered to consider if it would have made a difference?

The measure failed, 213-210, There were actually seven dems who abstained, not six. Your supposition is that if you add those 7 "turncoat" dems, one might think that the bill would have passed if not for their abstentions.

That's not the whole story though. Five republicans also abstained, and it's reasonable to think that if it looked like this might have passed, those republicans would have damn sure voted too. That means the measure would still have failed 218-217, even with Gephardt's vote.

Your anger should be directed at the two democrats who voted against the measure. They were the deciding factor. They are:

Dooley (CA)
and
Stenholm

I'm no big fan of Gephardt, but let's consider all the facts before demonaizing the man.

Here's the role call vote: http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=351

(edit: spelling)

for years! That's enough for me! Why do we want to run losers? Hold these weasels accountable!

I may be nuts, but I like the idea of a running a candidate that some Republicans might vote for. Getting more votes than the other guys sometimes actually wins elections.

I agree with you. As I said earlier, I would vote for any Democrat over Bush*. If a few Republicans cross over, so much the better. They can't all be blind to the serial lying and just might vote against Bush* this time around, because of it. The fact that Gephardt has wider appeal, than just among the faithful, is an asset, IMHO. Also, since Gephardt has read Greg Palast's ``The Best Democracy Money Can Buy,'' he will be prepared if there are any shenanigans, this time around.:-)

about him. I happened to leave the TV on and caught an interview he gave to Paula Zahn. What resonated with me was that he seemed to echo part of a rant I have often posted on DU. He was discussing the responsibility of the Saudis. I have often said that 15 of 19 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and Bush* doesn't even include them in his ``axis of evil'' because they are BFEE buddies in big oil. Dick Gephardt said what I have been saying, that they need to be brought to task for their support of Islamic charities that funded al-Qaeda. Gephardt was aware of the details. He also said that we need to go there and interview the witnesses. I wish I could pass along to him my copy of ``Forbidden Truth.'' When CIA operatives attempted to interview witnesses in Saudi Arabia, after 9/11, they often found that they had been executed the previous day. Gephardt has the Saudis number and is calling for the truth. He has my vote.
:think: