"THEY" are the reason we lost. Don't forget it. Stop blaming yourself.

My friend and I were driving to go eat the other night after the election. We were wondering why we as Dems/Progressives tend to self-degrade and deny the truth when we know that we won and that it makes us further vulnerable to DENY that we won. What do we gain from such denial. Is it a buying of time? Its a price too high however, because it makes the next confrontation that much harder to climb.

I think the Democratic party is responding much like the abused individual, who is consistently been emotionally, physically and spiritually beaten by his/her abuser.

For example, the abused woman will protect and defend the abuser because that is what she believes will keep her safe, when in reality, its just a matter of time before she will have to face the moment of no return, often being killed before she gathers up the strength to leave.

Abused women, after being beaten, will criticize and reaffirm the beating by concluding "if I had just had a cleaner house, if I had just gotten home five minutes earlier, if I had dinner on the table when he got home,

in stead of realizing IF I put a shotgun in his face and told him if he so much as touched me one more time he was headed to meet his maker.

Simply put, thats the language an abuser understand. Thats a language they respect. They hate wimpy diplomacy and begging more than they hate anything else.

In order for an abused woman to get OUT of a situation that is killing her (or the Democratic party), she has to face the reality, THAT IT IS NOT HER, it is the ABUSER and she needs to quit BLAMING HERSELF and BLAME THE BEAST THAT IS KILLING HER.

We must stop blaming ourselves for the abuse that the Right extremists continue to inflict. It distorts, twists and tortures the truth, which is simply that they need to be accountable AND we need need to be accountable to the sanctity of ourselves, this planet, our families, and those others who are doing the right thing. We must be adults and have the cajones to stand up, or they will win and we will have in part allowed it. We are too important to ever let that occur. We are the balance this planet is in crucial need of.

Right now those of us who are blaming ourselves are NOT doing the right thing. They are continuing the abuse and the lies. It must stop.

We must embrace and face the truth, or we, like the abused individual will die at the hands of abusive, evil individuals.

We have a choice, and yes it is a choice that takes both courage and conviction. However the price NOT to stand up is simply too great.

These violators must learn accountability or they must learn they will face major consequences. If we do not stand up, they will kill and harm everyone that stands in their way. Thats the way they work.

Yes, Dems need to think of ways that we can protect ourselves and it may very well mean buying a weapon to defend ourselves and others that we love.

Thats a secondary issue to the fact we have to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the fact we have to learn how to fight. And fight hard. And fight mean. Because that is the only language they seem to understand.

We cannot afford to be beaten down and abused any longer. Stand up, be an adult, take arms and do whatever is necessary to stop this abuse on the good, on the sacred, on our kids, the elderly, *us*, and animals and on this NATION.

n/t

Damn fine entry, there!

My weapon is my vote, my pen, my voice, even my wallet. Others may have different choices and that is OK.

Thank you

Thank you for such kind words.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

And btw, take the thoughts and ideas and build on them!

I hope others will take these ideas and do what they can to help all the creative terrific progressives to get a little tougher and be more confident in who we are and what we need to be doing.

denvervoice.org

n/t

they think was election fraud. What's the matter with us?

We have to educate and remind people of history and patterns, and how denial of those history and patterns leads to history repeating itself. And we need to continue to speak the truth, even when its awkward to do it.

I'm having a hard time watching news reports on it.

They have certainly been through their own painful shifts.

That is probably why so many Ukranians are realizing how important it is to fight against unfair elections.

but our politicians, the ones that do have the media spotlight more often than not, need to have that attitude too.

We need knock-down-drag-the-carcass-out fighters who will get in the face of every Republican, use barely appropriate language, appeal to our own numbed emotions, and remind us why we give a damn. That's bold leadership, and we are lacking it.

Kerry should never have said "I am against gay marriage. I am for the rights of states to decide (to discriminate)". He should have gotten in their faces and said, "Each of you Americans who thinks that it's okay for the government to discriminate against gay Americans in any form is immoral and a bigot, and America is not about immorality and bigotry. If you want to be immoral and a bigot, feel free to vote for the other guy, because immorality and bigotry is not what America is about!"

And a few more speeches like that - we would have pushed those assholes back into their bible closets, and made a few other numbnuts perhaps reconsider what they thought were "moral values".

We are all an example to everyone we meet.

thanks for so eloquently stating what i have been thinking.

n/t

find each other.

I do believe the mainstream media fell on their lazy asses this election (and last election) and didn't do their fucking jobs. I do believe that the Repubs ran one of the most deceitful and cyncial campaigns of all time. I do believe that many capitalists donated much money to get their "CEO president" elected. I do believe that many fundamentalist "Christian" ministers urged their parishoners to vote for Bush and painted Kerry as some sort of devil. I do believe that many Americans were duped into voting for Bush and that many Americans voted for him because they believed he was for their best interests and for the best interests of the nation.

I also believe that we Dems could have done a better job this election cycle. We did do a great deal of voter registration but need to do more. Kerry ran a good campaign but not a great campaign. He came out swinging too late in the campaign. His campaign at times responded too slowly to threats. The Democratic leadership didn't attack Bush hard enough on Bush's many failures. The Democratic pundits didn't always know the facts and fumbled the ball when they had a chance to fuck their Rethug opposites on TV news shows.

I believe we need to go on that attack and stay on the attack. Fuck the pundits if they accuse us of playing politics or of being Bush haters. We are Bush haters and we are not irrational. These fucking voters respect action and they respect power but they don't respect liberals sitting back on their haunches taking it in their hindquarters because they are afraid to fight back. To paraphrase James Carville, we need to stop apologizing, stop trying to go along to get along, and stop conceding points to the Rethugs.

I have adopted some of these ideas into my own life. When I hear a Rethug praise Bush or criticize the Dems I no longer sit back and take it. I get into their fucking faces. I go on the attack first. I write letters to the editor and respond personally to idiots who use the airwaves and broadcast media to insult Dems. It's not a grand gesture but at least I feel I am doing something to keep those fuckfaces from getting away with their bullshit without being challenged. If we all did that at least America would be aware that we have a real opposition to this fucker Bush and his cabal of swine.

Keep up the fight- no more Mr. and Ms. nice guy. (In my case it's no more Dr. niceguy). Have a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving.

That this election was a lie. The election of 2000 was a lie. And elections in 2002 were a lie.

We have, like anyone who has been conditioned to accept abuse, continued to accept the unacceptable. Not just Democrats and Progressives, but Americans nationwide.

Until we address the core problem of lies and illegitimate elections and have the conviction and confidence to say it, and to know how to respond to those who want to continue to believe the lies, things will continue to get worse and more oppressive for those who are willing to tell the truth. However, each time we tell the truth, its harder for those living in the lie to continue the lie. The key to health and prosperity in any realm or issue is first and foremost to acknowledge the truth.

There is alot to be said for "the truth shall set you free". However we have to also realize since we have disregarded the truth for a long time, it will be a process of patience and tenacity and inner strength to reach the road back to a healthy country. It can be done, and has been done, and will be done again.

Keep up the fight- no more nice gramma!

We liberals need to stop letting those bastards tread on us.

Every time a republican opens thier mouth they must be confronted by a democrat. We must present the core values of the democratic party over and over again in clear simple language to the american people. Every program that has benefited the american people must be identified as democrat orginated. Every failure must be identified as republican.No republican shill(commentator) should be allowed to utter any slanderous statements about any democrat or liberal without being confronted and challenged. The republicans must be made to feel what intimidation feels like just as liberals have been intimidated for the past 20 years. The democrats must do a better job of grassroots organizing right down to the local school board. The fundamentalists must be confronted at EVERY LEVEL of government. Their political philosophy must be show for what it really is. A xenophobic militaristic fundamentalist religous CULT that demands unthinking lockstep adherence to it`s avowed goals. The days of peace and love are gone forever. The fundamentalists have declared war on us and are determined to destroy us and it is past time that WE FIGHT BACK!!!!!!!

Whether the media or diebold or whoever helps the repubs, it's still comes down to the fact that WE need to do better in order to overcome those challenges.

Like the abused wife, who thinks because she must have missed a spot while cleaning, she deserved to be beaten.

Its NOT because she missed that spot, its because her abuser is a coward and a bully and cannot withhold his need/desire to harm someone else when he/she feels like it. THAT is the issue at hand, not her missing a spot. STOP blaming the victim, and stop being the victim.

It has nothing to do with us doing better, atleast at this point. The spotlight of accountability must be on those who are engaged in the wrongdoing.

We ARE doing better. Sure, everyone can always do BETTER, but you are letting those off the hook that must be held accountable for their actions. THat is the first problem that needs addressing.

And its not about Republicans or Democrats, its about bullies and those they are inflicting abuse upon. There are those in the Republican party who are not really Republicans, but are using the Republican party to exploit their power and their abuse of power.

When I say we need to do better, I don't mean we need to please or satisfy them.

I mean we need to kick the shit out of them.

Yes, they are bullies. But there is no one to appeal to about their abuse. We're in the schoolyard with no supervision and our choiuce is to get hit again or beat the bully.

I think visualizing peace is important. We know how to do that. That's important and it serves a purpose.

However, Teddy Roosevelt said it well when he said, "speak softly and carry a BIG stick".

We have to pick up the big stick and continue to visualize peace at the same time. Its the balance of both energies that must be acknowledged.

If you are dealing with offenders, you don't visualize peace at that point, you learn how to protect yourself and fight back if necessary. That is the thing that many would rather deny. It cant be denied.

Bullies need to learn to respect others and to speak more softly. Peaceful, more passive individuals need to realize the truth that in life we must also learn to carry a big stick and speak LOUDLY when necessary. They are both important and vital to any earthly balance. It is quite simply, the way of the world. Things become imbalanced when the yang overwhelms the yin, which happens very often. But it can be prevented. All of us tend to vere one way or another, and yet we both need a little bit of both energies in order to survive and thrive.

in time and space where democratic values and militant techniques meet? Im hoping and waiting for it to happen so I can be right on the front lines. Its painfull but nessisary! Right?

D.N.O.

I don't blame us either. We ran a great campaign with a great candidate. I volunteered for a Presidential race for the first time in my life. That was true of most of the volunteers in our office in the East Valley of Greater Phoenix. While I was canvassing I talked to so many people who were solidly behind Kerry and against everything the moron in the White House stands for. There was nothing wrong with our 'message' or our 'values'. We got lied about and smeared; our voters were suppressed and votes were compromised. We should all hold our heads up high. We're the moral ones, not them.

Your battered spouse analogy is very accurate in my opinion. Perhaps we need to take a cue from the Jennifer Lopez character in the movie "Enough". Enough - a very appropriate title for the way many of us feel right now about right wing politicians and their media whores. Time to fight back. No more appeasement...

since JFK, and it has never been given the outrage and the honest recognition it deserves. That has to end.

Few realize that Martin Luther King was killed (by right-winged interests?) in April of 1968. Less than three months later, Bobby Kennedy was assasinated as well (by Right wing interests?). Extremists have been on a hunt for good leaders for a long time. Our greatest weakness has been to "move on" from these significant horrific assaults on our Democracy and Progressives at large.

These deaths were blatant attacks on what is good, what is right and what is honest. We should never stop talking and being outraged about these assasinations on Democracy and Americans in general. I certainly include Senator Paul Wellstone as well. Is it a wonder why leaders are afraid to step forward? We simply cannot let good people be attacked any more. We must call it like it is. We must shut those individuals up from trying to deny the truth.

Our greatest leaders have been killed in vain unless we wake up and say NO MORE. Unless we protect and consistently reignite conversation and the realization as to why these great people were wrongly killed, and that we must NEVER let it happen again, more people stand vulnerable to wrong doers.

When these great leaders died, an element of good died with them and its up to us to re-right those unconscionable wrongs by insisting on MORE good and more truth in order to allow more good and more truth to come forth and to become the rule again.

America can no longer afford to let ANY good leaders ever stand alone again. It is up to us to protect them and to protect this country from more wrongdoing.

Morals my ass.

Bush voters got their (not all) got their tax cuts, and won on the backs of gay American's, Diebold, pregnant teens, and fear.

We're on the move backwards thanks to these wonderful, ill informed, hateful fanatics.