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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 04:54 PM
Original message
Separation of Church and State is of Utmost Importance to Me, but...
Edited on Wed Nov-24-04 04:55 PM by UdoKier
...this is a bit ridiculous...

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6911883

Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School
By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.




Since the teacher is a self-described "Christian" with a persecution complex, chances are, he was using history to prove some contention about this being a "Christian Nation" to his impressionable 5th graders, the principal got word of the inappropriate behavior and this was his way of trying to put a stop to it.

Still, the Declaration of Independence is a fundamental historical document, not a religious screed. Banning it was an overreaction.

I'm an atheist, I despise even a hint of theocracy, but The Constitution and Declaration of Independence should be sacrosanct as historical documents.

I wish the principal had used more discretion, instead of giving fundie freaks more fuel for the fires to say that we want to ban the Bible or strike God from the Constitution.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. That headline is a lie.
The headline says one thing, the article says another.

Nobody banned anything. This was an issue of one teacher clearly violating the constitution.

Your post flows off of the headline, both of which spin this article entirely wrong and exactly the way fundies will spin it.
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe I read it wrong.
He's not to GIVE them documents? Or he's not to show or teach them?

I'm a bit confused now. I certainly didn't mean to be deceptive.

Anyway, I don't think he should be allowed to teach history with a theological bent, but the documents shouldn't be banned either.

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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here is what appears to have happened
He pulled excerpts from the articles (NOT THE WHOLE declaration) to prove his point that the founding father's were religious.

The school told him that sort of cirruculum is not acceptable because seperation of church and state prohibts teaching about the influence of God on the founding of our country.

He sues saying they are discriminating because they ban him from talking about God and used the DOI as an example of how wrong they are to ban stuff.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. This fight is just like the crap in Iraq. Osama wanted it as much as aWoL
They both wanted to push their agendas at the expense of everyone else.
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Beware of SPIN = to lie.
The Radical Right-wing Religious Right has a strong agenda and they mean to fulfill it.

The incident in the article is one of many, many attempts to frame the issues and draw the battle-lines.

Expect a constant barrage and be sure to read carefully, between the lines, and with discernment. Much depends on that. It is the ammunition for resistence.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Big media is twisting this story. NOONE is baning the DoI from schools
They are banning this guy's lesson plan where he has rewritten a twisted and false version of history about HIS OWN beliefs about the DoI.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. god is already sticken from the constitution -
she was stricken by the FOunders.
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