The democrat party is dead - time for a new progressive war plan

We all knew Nader and Kucinich were the closest to an enlightened view of circumstances, we also knew they could never win .

We just saw the Dems lose two elections that were in the bag. AFter all Gore it's all been "Lay down roll over, and beg".

All the crap about "this isn't like Hitler" has fallen apart. Noone ever said Bush was Hilter, just LIKE that. Clearly after Nov 2 the mask is off and the only deniers are the ones who think "it isn't happening here".

Anyway, after hearing Kerry claim to be a "fighter" and hearing how they totally ignored the possibility of election fraud, I can only conclude that either these people are incompetent or on the take. We know our pigs feed at the same trough as the rest in DC.

So I am ready to say fuck the democratic party. They no longer stand for anything but a "good cop" actor in the drama that is being played out for our consumption and manipulation.

So what to do? I'm joining the GOP and I invite you all to join me. There is nothing left to do but fight on their level, i.e. dirty.

- Join their party and fuck it up.
- donate and disagree.
- be liberal on some issues and hyperfascistic on others.
- destroy them from within.

We can invade and eat them like a cancer, at the same time opening the door for a progressive movement.

See, this reich has learned from their previous mistakes. They now use focus groups, pre polling and trial balloons to curb their power grabs before the power grabs do them in. They will never go too far, just far enough. This is a "kinder, gentler" form of totalitarianism.

Emphasize the aspects of haterd and intolerance. THis will destroy them.

I urge this approach because they already have our number. Any honest approach to fighting this evil will fail and it will be used to strengthen them even further.

Fascism can be defeated with laughter. I said this four years ago and apparently I was more correct than the Kerry campaign. We need to heat up the facist water of the boiling pot and make that frog JUMP!

We have seen some sucessful efforts with Landoverbaptist, whitehouse.org and truechristian. Time to do it without letting on.

It sounds harsh, but we have to play to win. This is the approach of Aikido martial arts - use the energy of the opponants attack against him.

Now is the time to pull together. ;) Now, lets pull so fucking far together that we turn conservatives into paranoid liberals seeking the phantoms of lost liberty.

THEN we take the mask off.

Although I got to admit I like the destroying the GOP from within strategy, I fear that they are so big brother like these days that they would have full profiles on any member ranging from whether you ever were a member of the Democrat/Green party and given money to them, how often you go to church (or don't) etc.

Anyway, if it could be done to destroy the MOFOs, I'd do it, but it would be hard to stomach the propaganda we'd be subjected to....

:hi:

plus - dig this - we make this movement known.

Then the freepers will pick up on it and be boxing at shadows. They won't be able to tell what is intended by their fascist masters and what comes from us. They'll spend all their time and energy chasing something they can never be sure of.

Because I'm drunk and I'll get pissed. Besides, you wanna see "enlightened" read Clark's policy papers some time. Kucinich was the only candidate LEFT of Clark in the primaries.

Look, if you want to start NotDemocraticUnderground.com please feel free to do so, otherwise, please use this forum to promote Democratic candidates for office.

I never knew there was a difference until I did, then I was never sure which it was.

Anywayway- been there done that. We already did fight an honorable victorious battle. We can't win a crooked game honestly.

You're right, we CAN'T win honestly. But, if we'd run someone like the general, they'd be fucked. Seriously, Clark is way more liberal than Kerry and they wouldn't know how to counter a general!

You are part of the problem until you realize that militarization of American society IS the problem, and it cannot be solved by running generals and self-confessed war-criminals "reporting to duty".

Have you even CONSIDERED getting your facts straight or are those blinders just comfortable?

;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=108532

Like half of your federal spending going to military purposes, past and present?

http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

And Clark has lambasted the Pentagon for wasting so much money. Like I said, people run for the hills like crazed loons screaming about generals and the military industrial complex but have never taken the time to discover just how progressive the man is. It's truly amazing. During the primaries, only one man was more left of Clark and that was DK.

he's OK dude in my books for ex Bush voter ;)

What I was speaking about was the general sentiment that Dems should not challenge the spreading militarism but ride it.

can hardly exist in the sports arena, much less world affairs. What dangerous nonsense fills the head of would be world leaders who succumb to belief in an Enlightenment world when the lights have been maliciously switched out?

It's called stupid. Evil is stupid. Misapplied intelligence is stupid. Pride is stupid. Treating stupid people as honorable, good, and reasonable dignitaries is supremely stupid. Custodians of such popular myths are religiously stupid.

I heartily distrust the word honor, surely as abused a term and questionable emotion as the broad rubric of "love". Do babies get blown apart and nations ravaged for honor? Do you lose people's lives, liberties, and the fate of the world to preserve honor?

That "honor" is the tribute of Arlington Cemetery, the confiscated home of one Virginian, Gen. Lee, who prolonged a useless slaughter against the America for its pure and noble sake.

suicidal for anyone left-of-center, or even in a center position.

Anyone who's a purist, whether on the right or the left, is bound to be disappointed and such a candidate will not be elected to office even by a minimum critical mass. Period.

I don't like it any better than you but, sorry, that's just reality.

.......It's becoming clear that this endless two-step to the right isn't going to get us anywhere.

That's what I've been trying to say, but not very well. Thanks!

Sorry, I duped

http://www.pdamerica.org/

I am as disgusted with the Establishment Dems (DNC/DLC) as you. There ARE still a few Dems left inside the Party that haven't been corrupted. They are having a SUMMIT MEETING in January in DC (the day after the chimpy* coronation).

I've stopped sending money to the DNC/DLC, and am going to give these guys a chance. I may even try to attend the Summit Meeting, maybe go a couple of days early and cheer the coronation (with a bare butt).

and quite a few of the individual ideas perhaps we should focus on this moment.

I think that NOW and perhaps even after the hollow men theory of the party has finally wimped out its last whimper, we should be doing more grassroots coalitions on the outside of party structures. Savaging the DNC corpse or trying be like the RW snakes IMHO(and Not only may I be wrong, but clearly many will try) is too little too late. If the Dem leaders want to play the grimly patient"good guys" maybe we can do that better too.

Working Family Parties, Move ON, even some other parties and partisan groupings might just want to come together on life or death, true blue AMERICAN issues. Yes issues, that bane of forked tongue liars and self important focus groups. I mean junkyard dog, broad coalition, brutally aggressive organization from underneath that won't go crawling to the lapdog media that in turns go crawling to the crooks in charge. The not so brave party always took advantage of such nascent coalitions of force NOT creating or leading them, not quite speedy to reform either.

Let's keep the castration complex from spreading to lower grassroots groups who may in fact spawn a new party or join in the middle of the battlefield with a reclaimed leadership. Because we can't, or are afraid to, hurt the real enemy, let's not beat up on the DNC punching bag or turn on each other, but seek effective resistance with a commitment as ruthless and talented as the other side is crooked.

In short, do our job with election reform whether they like it or not. IF the party leadership chooses to be irrelevant to its members, we have plenty of talent to back for the task at hand. The date of that irrelevance is not clearly set.

it's not for everyone - all it takes is some number the appropriate warriors to make some movements, bowel though they be.

same thing. The caller was a republican who is furious with the Bush Cartel. This person said he believed his party had been hijacked. He actually invited people to "join" the republicans and work from within ... (I imagine he's speaking of moderate dems, whadda you think?)

It's an intriguing point of view though...kinda like undercover/infiltration work or something. It's not the avenue I wish to take, but maybe some moderate dems might be interested.....:shrug:

Infiltration of the moderates would work, ie. breaking up Democrats into two, DLC joining GOP (real conservatives, developing into center party after GOP breaking up too) and progressives forming real progressive alternative with fighting spirit. THAT would shift the center. Too bad ain't gonna happen that way. Only way is to rebuild from the bottom and make whole bipartisan system irrelevant that way.

Go Here:

Economic activism Group on DU

Recognize that to whatever degree you believe the Democratic party has sold out, they have sold out to corporate interests, same as the GOP. It's silly to try to work on changing either party, when both parties can be forced to change if we undercut their corporate masters.

This isn't a country run by the GOP - it's a country run by the corporations.

People before Profits - that is the only worthwhile fight as far as I'm concerned. Hope to see you there.

:hi:

I do think the many, many Democratics that represent us have sold out to corporate interests and self-interest, but the GOP ARE the corporations. BTW, Christian-right that the GOP lather up to vote for them, are just that--think of it as corporate herding.

But "they" are not the party--we are the party. Now we may not always agree on everything, but we do think for ourselves. The people running the party do need to communicate with the base, and we should not permit ourselves to be herded only heard.

That means an agreed upon set of shared goals and values that can find majority support. For some of the goals, minority support is perfect and can be worked locally, but for the national elections we need to build a broad coalition.

Remember_you don't need a new party you need new leadership.

If the government of the US were structured different, a parliament or whatever, then an additional party would have a chance. Right now, the easiest road to what you want is under the banner "Democrat." It already exists.

Again. A limited but realistic set of goals and shared ideals in a concrete form would go a long way to changing the direction of the party. One simple thing that could be a project for the grassroots and find support from your conservative neighbors might be publically financed elections. That is just an example.

I agree there is nothing fundamentally, structurally wrong with the Democratic party, and that it needs new leadership.

The idea of People before Profits is about reining in the destructive impacts of corporations. Kind of an umbrella idea, under which many more specific ideas can be fit - you mentioned publicly funded elections as a point - okay, the question is why do politicians have to spend so much money to get heard on what are actually the People's airwaves (both radio and tv) - the answer is because it promotes profits for the license-holders over the needs of having an informed citizenry (people).
That is a Profits before People paradigm.

Publicly funded elections, or better forcing the license holders to provide free air time as a condition of holding the license is a People before Profits response to the current reality.

Why not have each Presidential candidate produce, at their (or party) expense, say 10 ten minute videos (and just the dialog for radio) on the issues they want to campaign on, require each tv license holder to air each of those 10 videos X number of times so that the people can view them at their convenience, and call that the entirety of the political campaign? Same sort of scenario for Senators, except those would be targeted to the stations in the Senate-candidates individual state. Etc. etc. These would all have to be ready by a certain time, so they could be scheduled and aired. Best ideas win, much less mudslinging.

It would help to rein in corporate influence, and also force the parties and candidates to discuss goals and ideas rather than just mudslinging and scare-mongering.

And leave us progressives to form the new opposition party. That would be easier... now we have to fight just to get back to civil discourse!

Progressives aren't the only ones opposing Bush so you know, I know many moderates who are.

...democratic party is in its death struggle, just as the republican party was when Richard Nixon left it back on August 8 1974 in shame and his own disgrace. What came out of the ashes of the dying republicans was something much deadlier and evil than I could ever stomach. Now it has risen and is spreading its stench and corruption everywhere.

Perhaps some democrats will join in as Zell Miller so openly and shamelessly did. That is their choice and right as Americans. Perhaps our party, the democratic party eager now for a return to the position of power, wealth and influence it once had, will attempt to imitate what it sees as the strengths of the new conservatives, naively believing it can be like the enemy without falling victim to its evil ways. Unfortunately, I think it already has and the insanity is evident from the many rumblings I hear and read on this and other blog sites. Some of my own posts reflect that desire to be right and also to be validated.

The time for a real change is at hand. I don't know where that change will occur. I don't know how long it will take to crystallize. But it will come because change will be exactly what is needed. It will happen suddenly and will leave behind all of the old hatreds and fears and corruption and hypocritical retoric and unjust actions and false ideas in its dust. It will be freedom like none yet experienced, it will shine as a clearly as a bright light. Some that will be blinded, others will be enlightened and many will be awakened. It will be a fresh wind blowing across this land and those who have lied and cheated and stolen decieved us will be swept away.

The republican party as an institution does not represent these new ideas of change and never have. Certainly the Bush bunch have no idea what this change entails, but they do fear it. Liberal voices in the country and also from the ranks of the democratic party have at times given us hints and glimpses. First, the jackals of the old ways must first consume each other and they are doing that now. Those of us who want to survive must stand away, let them rip one another apart, go about our own business now, heal our bruised and wounded trust and remain open-minded and seek new leaders. Turn toward the leaders and teachers that the establised order most wishes to keep quiet and seek the truth from them. Follow their vision. Mobilize our efforts behind the actions of such individuals. Fire our imagination from their from their ideas.

<link> http://skeptically.org/id3.html

Are you nuts?

I think you have an interesting idea. Infultrate.

However, considering the large number of wing nuts ALREADY in the republican party...what kind of 'hyperfacist' ideas can be radical enough for them? Michael Savage is a popular republican talk show host, and I'm skeptical that anybody can outdo him for nutty ideas.

I seldom listen to him, but I've heard him say:
-Quaranteen HIV+ people
-Deport liberals
-Try & execute (for treason) school teachers who get out of line
-Ditto for Hollywood actors and media types.
-Shoot illegal immigrants

He brags that he was raised on Hate, Anger and Neglect. As if he needed to remind us...

They take you seriously and you become a media darling! You get to write books and get paid! You get interviewed at every turn!

You can't caricaturize these people. They are beyond satire.

you would probably be rewarded for whatever monstrocity you could create.

Back to where I come from.

Gyre

Vote my conscience, vote for what is right, and not vote out of fear or knee-jerk emotion. At least I'll know I've lost, instead of being psyched for the same pathetic game yet again.

This is what I have been preaching in numerous posts - this is the real thing, not politics as usual. Americans, you haven't seen nothing yet!

When the US economy collapses in the next four years, rather sooner than later, pushing the country into depression, and when the global Peak Oil (close) and US Peak NG (passed) make their real effects known, starting to push the American society close to total collapse during the next four yours, you should have no illusions on what the corporate fascist response will be. Population collapse not gradually through birth controll and decreasing fertility rate like in Europe, but suddenly through violence, disease and famine, is getting very likely.

What you need to do is face the reality, and start the battle for hearts and minds and for survival for real. Forget partisan politics, even though infiltrating enemy and "corrupting" it from inside is tactically sound thinking, the problem is bigger than that. Bushista Oil-Barons are not going to do anything about energy crisis, their choise of open colonialism of energy resources has crashed on the rocks. What you need to do is build autonomous energy economies based on renewables in local communites, energy co-operatives, food production co-operatives, which will offer security to people and independence from central Regime, that will allow them to resist the Regime.

Do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your countrymen and the whole humanity!

Nader makes a lot of the right noises but to often his walk is at odds with what he says.

Pehaps we should get an overarching view of the situation.
May I suggest this link from globalresearch.ca:

Link:http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BAK411A.html

Happy Holiday!

Wiley

:eyes:

Also, many so-called "moderate" activists plaque the Democratic party. You can't walk 2 feet as an activist without running one of them called for a "moderate" Democratic party and "moderate" candidates. Well, we have had nothing BUT "moderate" Democratic presidents and presidential candidates. Same for Senators.

And what it gotten us? A party that is more conservative than the GOP was 40 years ago!

It is the "moderates" that have left the party stranded without a messasage, a pseudo party, a placeholder. THe moderates have kept the party from taking a leftwing ECONOMIC approach.

I agree. The party must die, and then only then, when it is a empty sheell, only then can it be revived by leftwing economics.

Speaking of moderates, I feel a song coming on, meant TOTALLY IN JEST AND AS A SATIRE:


Back when I was a kid, life was going swell,
'Till something happened, blew everything to hell,
That night my daddy stumbled in, all pale and weak,
Said a woman up the block just gave birth to a "moderate"!
Mom said "sell it the circus, what the heck"!
Dad said "Nope, this one's a PENCIL NECK!
"And if there's one thing lower than a side show freak,
"It's a grit-eating, scum-sucking PENCIL NECK moderate!"

You see if you take a pencil that won't hold no lead,
Looks like a pipe cleaner attached to a head,
Add a buggy-whip body with a brain that leaks,
You've got yourself a grit-eating PENCIL NECK moderate.

PENCIL NECK moderate!
Grit-eating freak!
Scum-sucking moderate with a lousy physique!
He's a one-man no-good losing streak!
Nothing but a PENCIL NECK moderate

Soon the moderates were popping up all over town,
You couldn't hardly sneeze without knocking one down,
After a nice juicy steak, if you need a toothpick,
Just reach for a moderate, they'll do the trick.

One day we cut one up for fish bait,
Learned our lesson just a little bit late,
As soon as the moderate hit the drink, the water turned red,
Next day, sure enough, all the fish were dead.

PENCIL NECK moderate!
Grit-eating freak!
Scum-sucking moderate with a lousy physique!
He's a one-man no-good losing streak!
Nothing but a PENCIL NECK moderate

Most any night, you know where I can be found,
Yeah, stomping some moderate's head into the ground,
So keep the faith, 'cause in grease_monkey you can trust,
I won't give up 'till the last moderate bites the dust.

PENCIL NECK moderate!
Grit-eating freak!
Scum-sucking moderate with a lousy physique!
He's a one-man no-good losing streak!
Nothing but a PENCIL NECK moderate

They say these moderates come a dime a dozen...
I'm looking for the guy who's supplying the dimes.

It's gonna be real hard times for all of these
Grit-eating,
Scum-sucking,
Boot-licking,
Drop-kicking,
Gut-grinding,
Nail-biting,
Glue-sniffing,
Scab-picking,
Butt-scratching,
Egg-hatching,
Sleazy smelly,
Pepper-bellied,
Rotten stinking FREAKS!
Nothing but a pencil neck moderate.

i agree with the first part of the message but for the rest i'll have to concede: nice take

interesting that Republicans didn't take over our party when FDR was President. I wonder why?

The Republicans began calling it "Democrat" Party - please don't fall for it. DemocRAT - get it???

a party that won over 57 million votes? I believe the repukes stole the elections (all - not just the presidential) and I think the party did tremendous job of getting the message out despite the fact that the media was on the other guys side.

I have a real problem with those who think we have something to be ashamed of and that we need to reform the party. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO BE HEARD - just imagine what would have happened if the media had been fair, if Kerry was given equal news coverage as the weed, if the media actually investigated and reported on the weed's guard service, the loyalty oaths of the weed's rallies compared to the thousands who attended Kerry's and no oaths were required.

We have to find a way to be heard, we do not need to continue to fault the campaign or the party because we won, if we didn't win, we f*ckin did one hell of a job despite the many hurdles that we had to overcome.

You be progressive and while progressing, figure out a way to get the message out.

This is a proposal to reinvent the Progressive movement from the bottom up
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460#2749139

Update here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2749597