You had better read this people, we could be criminals

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 commentary:




Privacy policy
USA Patriot Act II would make news gathering a crime

Think the first Patriot Act was a civil rights and personal privacy tragedy? Just wait until you see Patriot Act II. Section 102 of the police state bill would make it a crime to engage in any information gathering, meaning that people who gather news headlines on the Internet would suddenly be deemed criminals and terrorists.

Essentially, the law would destroy any last illusions of freedom in the United States. It would turn the USA into a communist-style police state, where no person is truly free.


http://www.newstarget.com/002477.html

Don't forget to read the news summary

the text of PA2 is online anywhere?

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12161&c=206

here it is

http://www.eff.org/Censorship/Terrorism_militias/patriot2draft.html

and the criminalization of anyone "gathering news"...

Scarier yet are the further continuation of the enemy combatant status and power of the Executive Branch, the use of Wartime powers without any declaration by Congress and also the "National DNA database"...

:scared:

If this passes, say goodbye to our Constitution....

...is meaningless, since the SCOTUS (in a rare moment of sanity) struck down the White House's claims on "enemy combatant" powers last year, after this proposal was drafted. The only way Bush could get these would be through a new constitutional amendment -- which would never fly.

Also, is it necessary to point out that section 102 refers to "clandestine intelligence-gathering?"

It seems like there's a whole lot of paranoia out there tonight...

It seem to say that one must be an agent of a foreign power.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/PA2draft.html#Sec102summ

Section 102: Clandestine Intelligence Activities by Agent of a Foreign Power.

FISA currently defines "agent of a foreign power" to include a person who knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities on behalf of a foreign power--but only if those activities "involve or may involve a violation of" federal criminal law. Requiring the additional showing that the intelligence gathering violates the laws of the United States is both unnecessary and counterproductive, as such activities threaten the national security regardless of whether they are illegal. This provision would expand the definitions contained in 50 U.S.C. § 1801(b)(2)(A) & (B). Any person who engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for a foreign power would qualify as an "agent of a foreign power," regardless of whether those activities are federal crimes.

I should like to see the relevant text from the proposal itself.


Ok, it seems to say 'clandestine intelligence gathering', that tells me they mean the garnering and dissemination of state secrets.

But this: "Requiring the additional showing that the intelligence gathering violates the laws of the United States is both unnecessary and counterproductive, as such activities threaten the national security regardless of whether they are illegal."

Bothers me a great deal- 'we don't need to prove it is illegal to call it illegal' is big enough to drive a truck through.

Want to do some market research in the USA, that you don't want to share with your American competitors? That may now be illegal.

I bet this is aimed at companies like Airbus.

when did an amendment to the ANTI-bill of rights poke its ugly head up? are they getting it ready for their..er um... the next terrorist attack on our soil? or does the shrub just figure he has a mandate, so why not finish turning this place into a military state and get it over with? was there a time when reality wasnt so ridiculous?

We need less freedom because the terra-ists will get us.:puke:

When I worked for a publ;ic library, I owuld have to spend HOURS every day gathering articles for people to l;azy to cone in adn do their own research for classes, and thne fact the damned things to them

I remember we had one guy, who didnt want to spend money making copies of magazine articles, so he would go into the small local branch near his house, and then call; the main library or a regional branch with the cites, and demand that we fax him as much as 400 pages of articles a day. THe policy was that there was a ten page fax limit, but he screamed yelldd and threatened and complained dso much that the director made us do it. THjis went on for several months until it became so bad that we had to cut him off from getting the pages faxed to him and told him he would have to come in for the copies (the phone was tied up for so long each day that we couldnt respond to requests for other custimers). When the administration made all of the branch managers attend a meeting to yell at them for having gone through an entire yearts office supply budget in five months, I was the only person who was keeping track of the cost per page for making copied for this one guy, and I came withing ten cents of showing where our office supply money had vanished to, and the other libraries were then able to go back and calculate how much this guy had eaten up of their budgets. Finally, the administration told this guy he could only get ten pages a day per branch for free, and after that he had to pay 15 cents per page. For a while he started trying to spread hjis requests out over a bunch of branches, but not all had the journals he wanted, and having to drive all over the county was too much trouble for him, so he stopped. If ibrarians can no longer do this kind of research for the public, there are going to be a lot of happy librarians, because this has always been a major pain in the ass. It will be rather difficult to enforrce, becasue people have to do a lot of gathering of news and journal articles for college research, graduate work, and so on.

Because that's what it is.

when they know no one will defend you...your actions will be seditious.

:grr:

When they pry the mouse from my cold, dead fingers. :grr:

Charlie Stenholm, just got whupped by virtue of Tom DeLay's illegal gerrymandering in Texas.
I now live in a virulent red pus pocket. I've no one to complain to anymore.
On the bright side, I'm only five numbers and a bonus ball from escaping.

this congress, as crazy as it is, is sane compared to the one coming up. this law is de facto passed at the moment. yes virginia, you live in a police state.

No things coming up this week, in the church hall. If I can't dig up news either can they.Now just who will say what is news and what is just gossip? Will we have the police watching us? Just how can this be done. It is foolish.

all you need to know, citizen.

I emailed this to a couple of friends--let's get the word out!

On the plus side, this will destroy ALL internet-based news sites.

On the minus side, it merely blinds US citizens to any information that isn't tolerated by the corporate-controlled machine.

Most interestingly of all, how credible is that source?

then we gather such headlines and news. The law cannot be retro-active.

Civil Disobedience.


But really...we need to fight it every step of the way, even if they're gonna get what they want. This is nothing new, they'll over step their boundarys. We're on damage control on one front and on the other we should be rebuilding for the future, just like the republicans did to us.

Liberals want to take away people's rights. How the hell did they get that message. They have used it effectively as well in political campaigns, gun control takes away the right to shot deer with AK 47's, gay marriage, they say threatens the sanctity of marriage which they see is their right, no one else's. They throw out these charges of rights being taken away while they gut the Constitution.

We must fight for our freedoms. In my humble opinion the only way to stop this garbage is to take to the streets in mas non violent protests against this regime.
Thanks for this post and the information about "Attack on our Constitution" otherwise known as "The Patriot Act 2". Somebody has got to stop this crap and that someone is "We the people!"


RedTail Wolf

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