Target Bell-Ringer Ban Will Cost Salvation Army Millions

http://www.10news.com/news/3951097/detail.html

Salvation Army Looks To Internet Donations

POSTED: 11:27 am PST November 26, 2004
UPDATED: 3:38 pm PST November 26, 2004

SAN DIEGO -- The Salvation Army is preparing for what may be its leanest holiday kettle drive, because Target stores won't allow the bell-ringers back this year.

The Salvation Army's national spokesman, Major George Hood, said that's likely to cost the Christian charity $9 million in lost holiday collections.

Target officials said the retail chain has a long-standing policy against solicitations, and can no longer make an exception for the Salvation Army while refusing others.

"The Salvation Army is a really great thing for people who are unfortunate, collecting funds for them who need that. That is what the holiday season is all about -- giving back to others," said Joseph Graves, a Target customer.

Some shoppers said they were excited about the change. They said they were relieved there is at least one place where they can go and not be asked for donations.

They wanted to get an exemption under *'s faith-based program so they could continue to hate others while collecting our tax dollars.

Fuck 'em.

No sympathy for SA.

Don't forget to give donations through decent organizations to those who need help.

He was fighting in the trenches in France. It was miserable. It was winter. As they were in their fox holes, they heard a little bell. Peaking up over the mud they saw a Salvation Army worker crawling on their stomach dragging a large pot of coffee behind them and stopping to give the troops some hot coffee. When they got back to the baswe, they went into the lounge area. There was the Red Cross demanding hard cash for coffee.

I always give to the Salvation Army every Xmas. Sad that people who get drowned in TV and radio ads during the Xmas season are releaved at not having to put up with one more "ad".

Target is OUT for my family and i'll give a bit extra to the Salvation Army

Target is simply becoming consistent in their policy. It's unfair to blame Target. They are a much more progressive company than Walmart, for example.

He was in the far east during WWII.

He said the SA always gave them stuff, and the Red Cross wanted cash.

The only time the Red Cross ever gave them anything was when his whole unit was down with hepatitis. They gave them free coffee and donuts. My dad was too sick to eat.

He weighed ninety pounds when he came home.

They also give money to prison inmates to buy TV sets. I say no thanks to the Salvation Army in its current form.

n/t

that during WWII the Red Cross would charge them money, he can't stand the Red Cross. I'm still not giving SA a donation though.

no longer gets my money. Call a repuke. Maybe the idiot-in-chief will donate a portion of his million $$$ on my behalf?

and they requested special treatment to build a building in our city.

I say if they want to do good for others let their members contribute. It is their mission and for it to be a Salvation Army mission it should be from their members.

Just like our federal tax monies should not be used for churches to do their good works in their own name.

American Cancer Society or others like that should be considered... how about something along the line for stem cell research?


When I give for United Way I now specify the agency to receive my contribution.

be donating to stem cell research in CA this year. Surely they realize how important stem cell research is. Uh yeah, thank you is the reply.

door can they claim?

This story seems weird to me. Don't know why.

grocery store. And when I walked out, not making eye contact,
I got a " and you have a good evening Ma'am."
Screw them, they are not getting anything.

Does anyone have a list of charities that are OK to donate to?

They ARE where the most needy are. I have done a few shifts there, too. You see for yourself how your donations are spent. It has been one of the most humbling experiences of my life.
I went to the Orange County Rescue Mission once and I could not believe my eyes! With 3 complete meals in tow, I walked into one of the nicest offices I have ever seen. Furniture, computers, art. All I could think of was how much it all had to cost.
Now, I'm not saying a charity has to be based on skid row to be legitimate but massive overhead doesn't impress me. I told them I would take my donation where it was needed!
I made a few calls and that day delivered the food to a cafeteria in a poorer part of the county. I still go there, 3 times a year.

he Salvation Army, an international movement, is an evangelical part of the universal Christian Church. Its message is based on the Bible. Its ministry is motivated by the love of God. Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination

they demand a set amount of space and do not want any other groups around them.

PS in Jebbie Land they many $$$$ running Probation. You have to give like $40 per visit which they pocket. The state used to have state people do probation but it has been out sourced over many years more and more to the SA.

I am tired of being hustled everywhere I go during the month of December.

the fact that, in this area anyway, they HIRE people to ring bells and collect 'donations'. You get to keep 40% of what you take in.

(Found this out last year when I saw an ad for bell ringers and called about it. Thought it would be something I could do from my wheel chair but they wanted people who could stand there...go figure.)

I am on the phone talking with my dad, he was a volunteer bell ringer representing a civic organization.

They got over 200 Million from Joan Kroc for buildings and then they turned around and blocked homosexuals from their jobs and other largesse. Additionally, they tried to stop "non-Christians" from working for them. Always had thought of them as benign - but no more. will give to local food pantry the amount I used to donate to SA. will make sure to shop at Target as well.

I've contributed anytime I saw a SA bell ringer, whatever I had in my pocket at the time and dh does the same. We aren't interested in aiding those that choose to discriminate. So I appreciate this information.

:)

It was organized in the late 19th century in London to work with the poor and outcasts in the large cities (the victims of unrestrained capitalism) who were basically being ignored by the Church of England and the other denominations in England

SA is not a charity like good will......it is a church whose primary mission is helping the poor

They actively fight Gay rights worldwide... Guess that's OK?

it *needs* to be there otherwise the community would dissolve... without hate what would bring people together? ahh, all those 'loving' institutions fueled by bigotry, warms your heart doesn't it? 'tis the reason for the season, don'tcha know? /sarcasm

to their main offices in England. Add the 40% they give their bell ringers and then there is local overhead costs-leaving very little going to the people you intend it for. Red Cross "loans" disaster monies but they will try to get it back. United Way is okay if you specify the agency you want it to go to, however, that I believe has to be a United Way approved agency. Take the time to talk with the homeless and they will let you know who is really helping in your area. Then check it out for yourself before you donate.

Some shoppers said they were excited about the change. They said they were relieved there is at least one place where they can go and not be asked for donations.

This is the DU member formerly known as AIndependentTexan.






O8) Sorry folks, I would have swore that the holidays were about charity. This is one of the saddest things I've read in a while. How can people that look so pretty be so mean? How can people be so thoughtless? I liked the lessons I learned in my 4th grade civics class, not what I'm learning as a 25 year old, tax paying American citizen. I long to believe in that system I learned about. Fairness, love, compassion, and understanding. Did I grow up in a different America? Do people really not want to give during the holidays? Is that what America is reduced to? People please wake up. Please don't drink the koolaid. Please. Humanity deserves 1 month out of the year. Just one month a year, or approx. so, Nov26-Jan.2. That's all I'm asking for. Please.

Stacy

and Welcome to DU, Stacy! :hi:

I'd like some fairness, love, compassion and understanding too... But I guess as a Gay person, I don't matter to you...

Gays deserve to not have a "religion" working against us politically worldwide.... That's all WE'RE asking for. Please.

Here in San Diego, where over 2,500 homes were burned in wildfires, victim after victim told me that the Salvation Army was the best relief agency. While the Red Cross did little more than hand out blankets and charge for coffee, Salvation Army took in families and pets, gave people hundreds of dollars each in gift certificates to grocery stores, department stores, Home Depot, etc.

I won't be shopping at Target this year.

Target, like most stores, doesn't allow solicitations on their property. For years Target made an exception for the SA, but now they are being consistent in their policies.

I don't understand why people would be angry with Target.

by all of the other charities. Look for other schains to make the same decision on forcing out the Salvation Army rather than let every local charitable organization solicit at their front door.

but I think they should be allowed to ring thier bells wherever the hell they want. AFAIK, other than the bigotry against homosexuals, they do good work.

Not to say said bigotry isn't a big deal.

to allow all. If they didn't, they could be sued for discrimination. I don't think Target was being "mean." It was trying to protect itself.

:puke:

but like thier charitable works, as I stated, and feel they should be able to collect money to help people, as I stated, I should just start hating homosexuals. I guess the world is black and white, or at least it seems you'd like me to believe. FFS.

Equal opportuniy never existed and never will. I've never seen a non-Oriental person working a chinese buffet, and many restaurants will not hire men to wait. Is ringing bells for the SA a prestigious job? No. How do they know you're gay? They don't.

Christ, attack me, make me feel like crap, whatever.

FDR, at one of my favorite Chinese buffets, they have some Hispanic employees.

The times they are a-changin'. Love that song.*

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/times.html

It's their political activities against Gay people that are the most offensive...

Target would have agreed to keep the SA kettles going, but if they did so, they would have to allow equal access by ANY group to solicit funds. So they decided to not permit any on-site solicitations. And, Target has done a great deal to help support its local communities, especially the school system.

While I have some ideological differences with the SA, I am very supportive of their charitable work. When I lived in Eau Claire, the local clergy got together with the SA in order to pool our resources to help the poor in our community. Since they were able to apply for federal matching funds, many of the churches decided we could do more for people by working with one another.

This is going to be a hard year for nearly everyone, but especially for those living in poverty or near-poverty. I would certainly hope that people would be able to look within themselves and be willing to support some kind of charity or food pantry. Even $5 a week (one lunch at McD's) can do a world of good.

Besides, when you give to help others, don't you feel even more democratic?

Is there some kind of rule that says that corporations who let one group operate on thier property they have to allow all groups? I would expect to see alot more people hitting me up for money in stores than I do now.

It may be a Wisconsin law - or it may just be a corporate decision. I know that that's what the management at the Target in Eau Claire, WI told us when we asked about their policy.

Or maybe they just wanted to get rid of us. ;)

I guess there is some sort of class-action lawsuit against Target regarding Target allowing the SA Bellringers and no other charities, something about equal access to Target customers.

In a related story, I remember something (about 5 years ago - I think) about Walmart being very vehement about NOT allowing the SA Bellringers on their premises. Now they are ALLOWING them - perhaps backlash for Target not allowing them...What a fine "christian" company Walmart is...

:grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke: :puke:

That is crap to hear. i always make donations of old things to the SA, and always dropped cash in the buckets..

What a fine "christian" organization the Salvation Army is...

:grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke: :puke:

provide some links to proof of SA bigotry?
It is news to me, so I would like to read about it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Salvation+Army+Karl+Rove&btnG=Google+Search


Enjoy Ari Fleischer dodging Helen Thomas' questions...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/07/20010712-4.html#salvation

and see what they get...

RL

(Without my consent, I might add) into the coffers of religious groups thanks to Faith-Based Initiatives. If any faith-based groups (outside of my own faith) would like more of my money, they should approach W and the religious right for it.

First some background...

A couple of months ago the VP of Human Resources at the insurance company where I work (I hate that term because it implies humans are a resource like oil or water to be used until not of any worth) explained that the reason the company has a no solicitation policy (meaning people cannot go from desk to desk selling stuff for their kids, even girl scout cookies) is because if they allowed people to do fund raising on company property on company time then they would have to allow unions to come in and solicit for union membership.

When I first heard about Target denying SA the privilege of harassing their customers the explanation offered by the HR VP immediately came to mind. Is anyone aware of any unionization efforts at Target stores? Could they be trying to fend off any such efforts and since they say no to unions they are being consistent in saying no to SA in their solicitation efforts.

Target may be more benign than Wal-Mart but it's still a huge corporation whose workforce is non unionized.

Just a thought.

I doubt target gives that much of a shit about the bell-ringers, there must be a more important reason than that to bring this about.

Personally, I don't care for their homophobic practices and I could fucking care less about the all the whining as though they have some kind of god given right to guilt donations from people in front of every business under the sun.

While I don't doubt they do some good work, how about they make up the difference by ringing their bells in front of every evangelical church in the country?

Good riddance to inhuman, hypocritical, stale, smelly garbage.

If you don't know about CharityNavigator.com (I didn't until a few minutes ago) they rate charities. It is interesting to see CEO pay at some of these organizations. Anway, they are unable to rate the Salvation Army.

"We know many donors are interested in this organization and have asked the Salvation Army to submit their financial data to us for review, and they have elected to decline, as they are allowed under federal law."

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/content.view/catid/61/cpid/50.htm#1

Even defending their hiring practices. I wonder how many people would defend them if they refused to hire people of color?

Sure they are a religious organization, but they are religious organization acting as though they are entitled to gather donations wherever they please.

I am saddened that so many liberals think they should get a "special dispensation" to solicit donations above and beyond every other charitable organization.