Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I am rereading 1984.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 09:44 PM
Original message
I am rereading 1984.
And I am astounded at Orwell's prescience. His timing was off by 20 years, but he foresaw everything!

Government control of media.
Use of sound bites to control the messages from above.
Deification of the political leader.
Focus on one demonic enemy for the public to hate.
Organized hate-mongering.
Sexual abstinence required unless procreating.
Government intrusion into private life; spying on people at home.
Groupthink.
Class warfare. Keeping the public beaten down and discouraged.
Manipulation of the language in order to shape political ideas.
Youth indoctrination.
Encouragement of spying on others and reporting misdeeds.
Fomenting fear and anger among the citizenry.
Promulgating false information about foreign affairs.

And I am only about 1/3 of the way through the book! Genius.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. read "down and out in paris and london"
this was the first book he wrote, which is the "foundation" of 1984. it is a fascinating book
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think I will.
I had forgotten what a great writer he was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. i'm rereading it too.
a little at a time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuskiesHowls Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think you're going to find rewriting of history, too.
Its just like the stuff I've fumed at and corrected blaming any and all wars on Democrats (even if they weren't in office at the time:-))
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Whoops, forgot that one!
And a very important parallel at that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Manipulation of the language in order to shape political ideas."
One of my favorites (and it works with almost any idea). Changing the "cultural baseline" is an extremely powerful strategy. -- Few, if any, minds are untouched by the prevailing culture.

And language (what words are used and what meaning is attached to them) is an extremely powerful tool to manipulate culture. Moreover, when the trend in language is towards "dumbing down" and "overcharging", this can strip a language (and the people who use it) of the foundation on which to (better) perceive, understand and effect the world around them.

Of course, this works best when it is part of a comprehensive effort, filling people's minds with nonsense, isolating them from "foreign" thought, keeping them occupied with their lives, and driving them with desire and fear. The "carrot and stick" approach has proven its value throughout history... And at some point the "carrot" usually starts to become scarce. But the "donkeys" generally have little say in the matter at that point.

I am reading "Propaganda", by Edward Bernays myself. -- Might as well get it from the "horse's mouth".

"Propaganda" was recently re-released and has a good introduction by Mark Crispin Miller.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WhoWantsToBeOccupied Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Better finish it fast before they ban it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. omg...... i just started a re-read of it today too...spookie
Edited on Sat Nov-27-04 10:56 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. I bet sales of the book spiked on November 3rd...
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Don't forget the transposing of enemies...
This week we are ar War with Afghanistan(Eurasia)

The next week we at War with Iraq(Eastasia)...and we've always been at War with Iraq(Eastasia)...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And if you try to remember
when we were at war with Eurasia and when with Eastasia, you merely get discombobulated, throw up your hands, and go along with the current thinking, whatever it may be this week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Condi actually said that we have always been at war with Iraq.
This was to try to make the Iraq "war" look like just a continuation of policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is 'Al Qaeda' the Modern Incarnation of 'Emmanuel Goldstein'?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/goldstein.html

"We need a common enemy to unite us" - Condoleezza Rice, March 2000
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Al Qaeda is "The Brotherhood"
Goldstein is bin Laden/Saddam/al Zarqawi/ or whoever today's villain-du-jour happens to be
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. That's how I saw it too. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sara Beverley Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Did you forget "doublespeak?"
Maybe I missed it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleepyhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. I did.
There were so many that I missed several in my writing frenzy. There is much to think about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Doublethink, ignorance is strength, and instantly revised history
Doublethink sounds like doublespeak, but it's sort of the opposite -- it's the way of holding two conflicting facts and believing both are true. (Like "Republicans are fiscally conservative" and "deficits don't matter" or "We are in Iraq fighting to liberate our enemy.")


The motto "Ignorance is Strenght" has proven itself true this past election, as the entire campaign was based on a hatred of understanding of the issues and facts. Ask any Repub what good thing Bush has DONE so far, and they don't have an answer, just that they believe in him.


Winston's job is to revise history to eliminate inconvenient facts and make them correspond with current dogma...

The internet is right on course to serve the same purpose as more and more current events are archived online instead of in print form.


Oh yeah, and cheap "ink sticks" that don't so much write as carve onto paper...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WMliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. try Zamyatin's "We"
It was written about 15 years before 1984. Huxley and Orwell both call it their inspiration for their dystopias.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. 1984 is available online at
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. Orwell's relatives et al should sue the Bush administration for
copyright infringement. :D





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. I just picked up the movie "1984".
You'd have to read the book before you could follow the movie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. Primitive patriotism and circus dogs
"All that was required of them was a
primitive patriotism which could be
appealed to whenever it was
necessary..." -George Orwell


" Circus dogs jump when the trainer cracks his whip”, wrote George Orwell of journalists under dictatorships, “but”, he went on to say about journalists in “democratic” societies, “the really well-trained dog is the one that turns his somersault when there is no whip."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
24. Something vaguely encouraging in 1984...
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 09:51 AM by kiki
"We are different from the Nazis, in that we know what we are doing."

This is one of my favourite quotes. It is a statement that the Party's motivations - the answer to the question of "why" (as opposed to the "how" that people tend to focus on) that Winston is always asking - are "pure": they seek "power for its own sake", and power for the Party, not personal gain for themselves as individuals. Although they have access to a few more luxuries, members of the Inner Party are not especially wealthy. Unlike almost every totalitarian regime in history, including the Nazis, and perhaps if they have their way, the Bush regime, power for the Party isn't just a scheme to get rich, it is its own reward - it's something you do because it is ultimately the only thing in life worth doing. In fact members of the Inner Party are as much slaves to Ingsoc as the lower echelons that they exploit, and willingly so... true, selfless commitment to power for its own sake is the only way to create true, eternal, undying totalitarianism. It's about making your contribution to the immortality of the party... next to that, personal wealth seems, to the Party's leaders, a pointless and childish goal.

So the good news is that, as their motivations essentially boil down to greed, the Bush cabal will tear its own guts out as the Nazis did. They're not even close to being the Party; individually they are too shallow, selfish and conflicted to create a totalitarian project as ambitious as the one portrayed in Orwell's book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 29th 2024, 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC