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Hubris repeats itself ... in Iraq - Former director of CIA

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:27 PM
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Hubris repeats itself ... in Iraq - Former director of CIA
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0904/p09s02-coop.html

By Adm. Stansfield Turner

WASHINGTON – The Greeks have a word for it - hubris.


Thucydides, the Greek historian, reminds us that in the 5th century BC the Athenian Greeks learned a lesson about having too much hubris - arrogance. The citizens went to the agora and voted to send a military expedition to what in those days was a distant Sicily. There the Syracusans were harassing a small nation-state that was something of an ally of Athens. On the day the expedition rowed away in 134 triremes - warships with three banks of oarsmen on each side - most of the populace of Athens came down to the harbor at Piraeus to cheer and send them off.

There was no reason to doubt victory. Syracuse was no more than a backward, uncultured nation-state on the outskirts of civilization. When the Athenians arrived, however, the military of Syracuse tried some new tactics that confounded the Athenian generals sufficiently that victory did not come quickly, as anticipated. Instead, the Athenians had to send home for reinforcements. After two years of war, the Athenian force in Sicily was so decimated that few managed to return home. This was only the beginning of problems for Athens, however. In another nine years the Athenians had lost their empire abroad and their democracy at home. The hubris that had carried them to Sicily had started them on the road to their downfall.

Is it not time for us to recognize that there was a good deal of hubris behind our decision to invade Iraq? It impelled Congress to pass a resolution in support of an attack, the president to decide to invade, and the American public to give wide support to his doing so. The initial fighting went well, but the enemy's tactics since have not been what we anticipated.

In fact, most of the assumptions behind our invasion have been proven wrong: The intelligence did not support the imminence of a threat, the Iraqis have not broadly welcomed us as liberators, the idea that we could manage this action almost unilaterally is giving way to pleas for troops and money from other nations, the aversion to giving the UN a meaningful role is eroding daily, and the reluctance to get involved in nation building is being supplanted by just that.

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illini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:30 PM
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1. Good article.
n/t
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StandWatie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:30 PM
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2. bad assumption..
Failure in Iraq is simply unacceptable. It would not be just a severe embarrassment, as it was in Vietnam. It would be caving-in to terrorists, and not just to terrorists in Iraq. The president's worldwide "war on terrorism" would be seen as having folded up the minute the going got tough. Whether Al Qaeda has operated out of Iraq in the past or not, it almost certainly would do so in the future.

I see no reason why this has to be true and it's the mirror image of why we "couldn't" leave Vietnam.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:36 PM
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3. Depends on ones definition of failure
Juniors worldwide "war on terrorism" was a failure before he announced it. Just ask the Israeli's.

Don

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chaumont58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:54 PM
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4. I've not been able to come up with a reason why....
the Bushies invaded and conquered Eyerack. I don't think these people give a rat's fuck about pride. These people are sociopaths. I do believe they care about money. Their buddies(Haliburton and Bechtel) will make a lot of money in Iraq. To hell with a GI's life. They stole the election of 2000. They have trashed damn near every part of government, for the sake of their pocketbooks. I don't think we will ever know why they did what they did in Iraq. Forty years later, a lot of people still believe the truth was hidden about Kennedy's death. The inescapable facts out of Iraq is that GIs continue to die and Bechtel, Haliburton and others(all Bush cronies) continue to make oodles and gobs of money.
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