Anyone else disappointed by Michael Moore on Leno tonight?

He seems really 'off.'

So far it looks like he's missed a real opportunity to throw some good hits at bush and it feels really awkward.

Really disappointing.

That's all I can think of.

if we tried to find the "common ground" in this country----
downright FOOLISH

he is not a politician.

Now the whole country knows.

and he spit out garbage. Death threats or threats of imprisonment!
:shrug: So sad - :cry:

hasn't stopped him from making documentaries.

but he STOLE THEM. and not one fuckin word from Moore. Kiss my ass MM. I tried to email him to let him know but his site doesn't seem to have a contact.

there is a link that says "Hey Mike." There are contact links there. I didn't see the show myself but am sorry to hear it was a disappointment.

I don't....I think just like his outfit tonite, its all a "facade" and he's playing and f*cking with the minds of the Repukes and Moralistic Mightier than thou America....

Stay tuned....the show isn't over... :hi:

n/t

repukes had a better story to tell (we'll protect you) than the dems.

he also cut his hair and wore a suit.

he also joked about how even tho 45 mil ppl have no health care, he and Jay had it.

Explanation please! Because this was really depressing.

He's either sick (seriously) or he's been threatened. My G-d that was awful.

He looks and sounds sedated or deathly afraid.

Moore is a tricky bastard. ;)

was hurt, harmed and disillusioned, and in the face of all the work he did in the campaign was also a "loser". Not a fun thing to contemplate.
He made a movie that won the Cannes Film Festival Top honors yet did not sway a country that VOTED FOR KERRY but DID NOT RECOGNIZE IT GOT SCREWED so how the heck did he have a chance at making a point at this stage.
His showing up looking the way he did, clean shaven, a suit, no ball cap, was the most statement he could make in his own utter devastation.
After all, with the Media Clampdown in effect, he would have taken on a hell of a job to alert more than 3/4 of the US that there even had been fraud.
And with the blue / red divisions we suffer right now, I believe that coming in on a talk show, making an election fraud stir,
Michael Moore's looks and demeanor in a very difficult time is that he did the very best he could to not have himself and the phenomenal body of his work suddenly invalidated.

We owe a lot to him and his fervor and his brillance.
I really think off handed criticism is unfair at this time.

Moore is also the man who stood up in front of a crowd of Hollywood socialites during an award show, and made a speech about the "fictitious war," long before it was acceptable for media figures to openly criticize the Bush administration's policies in Iraq.

His purpose in life is not an intellectual one - he doesn't possess the articulation or nuance of Chomsky; his purpose is to inform and entertain through politically-driven mischief.

Falling short of that mark, Moore deserves to be the target of some healthy criticism. His opportunity to disseminate the message of potential fraud was absolutely wasted.

It may be strategically beneficial for him to create the image of resignation; of an extinguished flame - however, it's very possible that he is simply not responding well to the devastation that accompanies the knowledge that, fraud exposure or not, Bush will maintain power at any cost.

give him a break. Michael Moore had is life completely changed in the last year.

In the limelight all the time, having security around him, money he never dreamed of having, influence over millions of voters...

I think that his new way of dressing is coming from his advisers. Something like:" Change your image, you look like an old teenager"
You gotta look more credible.

So as it often happens it went completely on the other extreme.

Give the guy time to adjust and find a way of still being himself without antagonizing so many people because the way he dressed.

I am presuming that his ultimate goal is still to bring back Democraty and end the War. This could not have been changed overnight. In the next few months we will probably see him trying different cloths style.

As for his words, or lack of words about the electoral Fraud, I did not expect him to say anything about it. He did his share during the campaign.Right now a lot of people are working underground to expose it and he was probably told to wait for others to come forward about it.

IMHO

Lise

I kept waiting for him to unload on dubby, but he never did.
It really look like someone got to him. Slight possibility of depression and giving up the ghost.
Shaven and dressed in a suit. That would be fine, but he really seemed subdued.

He probably won't tho. He'll hopefully recover soon.

I totally forgot he was coming on there. By the time I remembered, it was about too late. I came in on the part where he was reading one of the letters from the soliders.

What did I miss? What did he say?

Didn't he get teams of videographers to document the stealing of the 2004 election? We haven't seen ANYTHING yet.

Before we jump to conclusions, though it all seems weird, I think he's up to something. Y'all can tell me how wrong I am, but Moore is a fighter - not a sellout. Something is brewing while GOP basks in their hollow victory.

know about.

Wasn't it just plain weird? Isn't he "normally" a tricky dude? ;)

The man knows what he is doing.
He is much brighter than than the squawkers here.
He did look out of uniform, though.

He's gone into hiding, so to speak. That was the biggest goof I've ever seen. I think he's just goofing on everyone, playing it close to the vest.

That haircut's a riot. That suit's even funnier.

I think he's just lulling the Repukes into complacency and not making waves. Like how Kerry's been quiet, and how things in Ohio and Florida and who knows where else are going forward.

There's still a whole lot of time before this election is over, don't forget.

I think it's brilliant.

... and I too think it's brilliant! Did you notice how the boos stopped midway through the show? He's already got them off-balance. :D

Neither Moore nor Kerry have any secret plans, and it's just delusional wishful thinking to harbor thoughts that they do. Even Bev Harris has said that Kerry's lawyers just stood by and did nothing, and had the gall to claim that blackboxvoting.org was just there "to make trouble".

The only thing I have to look forward to in January will be when reality finally kicks in, and people are forced to admit to themselves that Kerry & Co. had no secret strategy, and just caved in. Then we'll finally be able to get to the important task of trying to find some Dems with a spine to run in '06 and '08....and make sure these votes are counted, instead of trusting anyone involved with the DNC with our donations and hopes. Because it's becoming increasingly clear that these bozos have no intention of fighting to get the votes counted, the way Gore did. :(

I understand your feelings, but it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

Want to go for the Bonus Round Swamp Rodent?

I think your right on the money.... :bounce:

We ain't seen nothing yet....

:bounce:

:9

The smelly French kind....Yum.... :eyes:

I didn't see the show, but it sounds weird. This is the guy who did Roger and Me, the guy who did TV Nation (was that what it was called?), the guy who for YEARS has been fighting for the little guy. Some people might think of him as a publicity hound, but that's not the guy I've come to love and respect. This guy has years and years of street cred.

Actually... this whole thing is making me feel optimistic.

Maybe it was a bit of subtlety that came across badly.

Perhaps when he said "Bush protected us", that was just his way of saying that Bush wrote the fictional narrative of the election, and set its tone and agenda.

As to "Bush got more votes", he may be one of those folk who are not convinced there was voter fraud, etc. He may actually feel Bush actually WAS elected by a majority -- which is JUST as scary as stealing the election.

As for him wearing a suit -- he does that from time to time. I can dig it -- an artist gets sick of playing a persona of himself, like it has got to be a uniform.
He's not exactly working class anymore -- seems a stretch to "dress" the part -- which does not mean that he no longer supports working class issues, BTW.

I did not see the interview -- can't bear Leno. Can't imagine who it would take to get me to watch. Probably only if I were I guest would I watch. :-)

;)

FYI, Dont know if this has been posted but, on my screen guide it shows F911 freeview starting this wed. 12/01 at 3am, ch. 125. I think it runs all month.

Wow - Murdoch is showing F911 for free? Crazy world, man.

MM was saying that Bush and the pukes controled the narrative of the election and the Dems were playing catch up. I just wish he didn't say it on national television (would a repuke do that if Bush lost?)...

Fighters never give up and we never get depressed.

Moore's a fighter.

I think it was guerilla theater of the finest sort.

on stage or national TV...

Guerilla TV/Theater at its finest... :hi:

Wrong and wrong. We get back up, we fighters, but sometimes we don't get up as fast as other times. His heart is broken, probably 100s of times worse than mine because he worked that much harder than I did and we both are learning that the evil still won.

when the message you fought for for three of four years lost. He has been humbled as we all have been. His public stand against Bush has not put him in the best position to come on and keep saying the same stuff. He will be back!




RedTail Wolf

I think he's doing well,and has made a few good points. It could be an attempt to soften his image,or he could just be tired.

Just like this whole stinkin election..........odd.

He didn't have much to say, no big jabs at Bush, no new stories, he wasn't there to promote anything new other than his book which has been out for a while now.

It's a telltale sign when people change their image........this reeks of depression.

I saw Moore in Nashville on his Slacker Uprising Tour and it was aweinspiring to say the least.

All these people are just humans.
Michael Moore gave up over a year of his life to this cause, and beat the road like a driven slave before the election. He is a film-maker and a man who tried his heart out.

John Kerry the same.

I don't know why people want Idols and can't accept the humanity of those that we would like to be leaders.

They are human beings, and there is no way any of them will ever live up to all the fantasy everyone holds for them.

They are admirable, honest, hard working people that have sacrificed for the nation. They stopped what they were doing and fought like hell to get out country back.

They may not do exactly as you like, but remember they are humans and gave much much more than most.

more worried about him in my opinion...as I believe they should be, he has become sort of a beacon, not a God, just a light during these dark times, you cannot fault people when the lights begin to dim all around them that they become a bit worried....these have been some crazy times lately, and it only seems to be getting crazier....

remember that MM had walking pneumonia. He may seem to be subdued simply because he is not feeling up to par.

I loved an actor once and now I hate them all.

which is basically what you're supposed to be on late night talk shows. There was a lot of sarcasm, which most people here unfortunately took as literal statements.

I remember a couple months b4 the election he told us all to stop worrying, that everything would be ok, that the country would never vote for bush after what he's done. We here at DU knew that having the voters on your side is not necessarily enough, but i don't think MM did.

...why should MM keep fighting for them?

so far so good it will be a big one about the mandate/creationalism/far right and all that wierd stuff.All the money from the films go right into other films.

To quote OldLeftieLawyer from above, " it was guerilla theater of the finest sort." :D

There are film editors working around the clock as we speak. ;)

for an upcoming project? :)

bwaaahaha oh that's hilarious. I'm going to go with that. Yep - I like this explanation best of all. True or not, it's making me smile.

And I truly believe he's working on something. I mean c'mon! He has gone WAY too far already to give up. If DUers are falling for it, just imagine how confused the right wing nutjobs are! That crowd was booing him but then they stopped half way though. They didn't know WHAT to think, and I'm sure a lot of them are thinking about some of the points he made. Sure there's cognitive dissonance clouding their minds, but HELL! Moore was right on target with his message: The rich are SO rich that they can say FUCK YOU POOR AMERICANS. They have homes, cars, health insurance, jobs, etc. but GW's tax cut will ONLY help the ones who don't need it. HAHA! PERFECT! The audience got it in the end.

All I'm sayin is: It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings. ;)

i was totally disappointed :evilfrown:

I can understand being depressed, as I haven't really left my house since the election. However, part of me thinks he had a responsibility to all of us, those who looked to him to be a ray of hope, to not do a complete 180. I understand the sarcasm, but what's a person to do who really needed Kerry to win, who believed in that statement, "help is on the way," who is sitting alone after watching that? I myself felt like OMG, get me outta here before it's too late. It's like invasion of the body snatchers. And I confess, there's a teeny part of me that got pretty miffed when he said it had been a good year for him and that he had health insurance. It's bad enough realizing you live in a country you can't believe in any longer, but then to see him...

The only thing I do possibly believe is that he was threatened to tone it down, or else...now that seems plausible to me. I have just as much hope as the next person that the fraud is exposed, that we all live happily ever after, but I am getting tired of everything being viewed as if there is a secret meaning behind it. Sometimes things really are as they seem. No offense to anyone here intended. I am just very sad.

If he'd have come out with guns a'blazin' he'd have been edited or struck.

It seems that he chose to poke fun and let the people who understand his message read between the lines, as many here have already done.

Still - I was and am surprised. It is not what I expected. The shave and haircut alone carried a shock value of 10. The suit - well the suit made my jaw drop.

MM rocks, no matter how he dressed. There's no way in hell I'd believe for one second he's give up the ghost and go freep now. No way baybee.

"The shave and haircut alone carried a shock value of 10." - If it worked on DUers, just imagine all the confused freeps out there. Did you notice that the boos stopped half way through the show? ;)

what time he came on?

I despise Leno and only want to watch MM here on the left coast.

TIA

If one didn't understand his subtle humor and sarcasm, then perhaps one might feel frustrated or confused.

I've been a MM fan since "Roger & Me," "TV Nation," "The Awful Truth," "Canadian Bacon," and "The Big One." (Way before "Bowling for Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 911")

He cleans up well. He is very clever. He knows how to play the game.

Perhaps I am partial to a home-state guy, but there is something brewing below radar. One will not be disappointed for long!

who stood up and chanted at him, "four more years" after John Mc Cain's "disingenuous filmaker" comment. The hate was palpable. It was freaky and I can only imagine MM has nightmares about that now.

Hope he'll get back to his fighting self soon.

in the last three years, certainly not since the election. I wish he'd take my advice and just go snorkelling in Hawaii for a few weeks.

anyday of the week!!! He hasn't sold out just now he's campaigning to win Best Picture compliments of Bush!!!

These are dangerous times He's sitting back waiting to see what Americans do when they know the truth!!!

Appearances are everything in politics. Perhaps Moore has finally gotten smart and become aware of that basic truism.




"I am a liberal. We live in a liberal democracy.

That's what we created in this country. That's in our Constitution. ... I think we should be very clear on this. You know, this country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment. It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get stuck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."

Wes Clark - September 5, 2003

How would you like it if most of the media claimed you as a savior, as a sole beacon of light in the darkness, and you suddenly found out that 51% of America doesn't care what you think? That has to be the hardest part. Sure, his movie is recordbreaking, won Cannes, and will be nominated for numerous Oscars, but after all that, Bush is still in the White House. It's like Vietnam. You win a lot of battles, but lose the ultimate war.

Michael Moore needs to do what America did after Vietnam. Find some insignificant country and destroy it to get his confidence up. Then go back to the bigger targets.

I jumped all over the chance to see Moore for the first time since the election... 'twas very sad. I hope the DUers are right... he about fooled me- he was so down, so depressed, so UN Moore... the bad suit, haircut... Although a few comments were sarcastic, I felt that some were meant as serious (and I am generally pretty good at getting sarcastic comments, although I could be off) such as the one that says that Bush protected us- he did back that up with a semi sarcastic comment, but I felt the sarcastic comments could have had the potential to DRIP sarcasm... but noooo... :(

i sent him an e-mail telling him so.

I didn't, but reading the posts tonight--ya think it's possible he had screws turned to him about keeping it "low key" at the last minute?

Just a thought.

Very different is very good. I didn't see the show, but as another Michigander, I have a strong sense that Moore is doing what a lot of us will be doing - confusing the heck out of 'em from here on out. Depriving them of their target. Breaking up their game. Zigging and zagging. The right wingers "won" - that is the worst thing that could have happened to them.

I don't know if I can express this very well. Democrats played by the rules, straight up, and people poured everything they had into this. They cheated. Whether anyone can "prove" they cheated or not is irrelevant, we know they cheated. That ends any obligation that liberals and Democrats have to play the rigged game any more. Now we are free to innovate, to get creative, to confuse the hell out of them, to try a variety of things and see what "takes" and what works. No worrying about the reputation of the party or the image of liberals anymore. So long as Democrats were trapped in a rigged game, it was hopeless. Now there is a lot of freedom, and I think Michael is taking advantage of that.

Watch the Republicans swinging at thin air now. "Hey! Where'd those liberals disappear to?"

Heh heh.

While the Republicans have been gleefully demolishing the game-board, they forgot one thing. It was the game that was protecting them. We have seen their best. They haven't begun to even get a glimmer of our best. They freed us up from the obligation of playing the game.

but...I must say my husband and I were quite shocked to see him this way on Leno...

I could handle his cleaned up 'look' but I must say I was disappointed in what he had to say, or didn't say..

Signed:
SuffragetteSal (wife of Robinhood)

it seems that some of DU is going the work of freeperland right now, and that's not the way to take care of someone who put his neck on the line more times than nearly all of us ever will.

So I'm calling bullshit.

It was just a fucking nothing crap-ass entertainment show. Michael Moore has more than earned the right to have a shave when he wants, put on neat clothes if he wants, and say what the fuck he wants on some useless crap show that mean NOTHING.

Moore didn't kill anyone on Leno, he didn't bite the heads of chickens, he didn't send our troops to iraq without a plan to get out, he's not planning to force test and drug kids in school.

We don't get a say in his life, not after he sweats blood to fight the evil of this WH.




but that's just my opinion.

who love Bush so much for allowing him to keep his tax break. He was playing them at their own game. Screw you, I got mine. He does have plenty and indirectly their love of Bush helped Moore.

I have no problem with it. They are famous for cutting off their nose to spite their face.

right with him.

and Michael Moore was here for the money.

Nothing more, nothing less.