What would our flag look like

If secession actually occurred, what would our flag be?
Ideas?

nt

half of them never stopped using the Confederate flag anyway...let them have it. A symbol of bigotry and ignorance the whole world can recognize.....

and include E Pluribus Unum in the center

and they started using it again after 9/11

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq122-1.htm#rattlesnakejack

is almost thick enough to cut with a knife.

You know, it's really quite absurd considering that an awful lot of people here consider that the Civil War was justified, because the Southern states seceded (due to political disagreement with other sections of the country...slavery was only part of the reason), yet some of those same people are advocating secession.

If the Southerners who seceded were traitors, then, ipso facto, the "blue" states would be treasonous in seceding.

You really ought to think about what an ill-considered, inconsistent and absurd idea secession is.

To me the war was not about secession, it was about slavery. People from the north went to war singing about "John Brown's body ..." John Brown gave his life to free slaves, not to undo a secession. The Battle Hymn says "as he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free".
Lincoln may not have sold it that way at the time, but slavery was not "part" of the reason - it was about 97.4% of the reason. "that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

That cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion - A new birth of freedom.

but it doesn't stand up to historical analysis.

There were a host of other reasons for secession, as well...such as the tariffs, which benefited the industrial North and hurt the agrarian South. In essence, the South no longer wished to be dictated to by that part of the country that sought to advance their interests and enforce their values at the South's expence. I agree that slavery was a great wrong, that ought to have been abolished and never should have been allowed in the first place; but if you look at the bigger picture, the South seceded for the same reasons, essentially, that people here want the so-called "blue states" to secede.

The Constitution of the Confederate States of America
"The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same. Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or territory not belonging to, this Confederacy." Article I, Section IX


I'm pretty sure I recall that systems of slavery require a constant influx of new slaves to avoid ceasing to function. Thus outlawing the importation of slaves would lead to the end of such a system.

In the Carribean sugar islands, they required constant import of slaves to replace the dead and dying who were not reproducing in sufficient numbers to keep the population steady. In the US slave mortality was significantly less and breeding was a lucrative sideline, particularly for the more northern (and healthy) slave states. Eliminating import of slaves kept the price of slaves high.

Black population of the US was 757,000 in the 1790 census (and you can be sure the southern states made sure that every 3/5s of a man were counted). In 1810, when slave imports became illegal, the black population was 1,378,000. By 1860, it had grown to 4,442,000 with very little input from slave smuggling.

the thread was started not as a discussion of secession itself as there have already been enough of those. I just wanted to see where everyone's head was at on the flag issue (and maybe see some creative photoshopping).
Thanks

Is that I think both the Blue and the Red states now would both WANT to get rid of the other.

The Civil War was fought because the Northern States didn't want to let the Southern States go, hence the moniker "The War of Northern Aggression". That's not true now.

Let the Red States claim that they're kicking the Blue States out of the Union if it will make them feel better.

I will be one of the first people in Miami proposing that South Florida Secedes from the state. The four southern counties, Miami, Broward, Palm Beach and Monroe (the keys), were all blue.
Jeb can keep Disney World. We'll keep South Beach, Key West and all the sports teams down here.
We'll be called South Florida and we will be a blue state.

It would be so nice to actually live in a real USA again.

Just remember what happened the last time you raised it.

just because I happen to live in the south. I have nothing to do with the racism that flag suggests

Not everyone in the South believes that that is their flag. Just remember, the so-called North has more cities in America's top 10 "least integrated cities" than does the South.

notes to the future - patti smith

Listen my children and you shall hear
The sound of your own steps
The sound of your hereafter
Memory awaits and turns to greet you
Draping its banner across your wrists
Wake up arms
Delicate feet
For as one to march the streets

Each alone, each part of another
Your steps shall ring
Shall raise the cloud
And they that will hear will hear
Will hear voice of the one
And the one and the one
As it has never been uttered before

For something greater yet to come
Then the hour of the prophets
And their great cities

For the people of Ninevah
Fell to their knees
Heeding the cry of Jonah
United
Covering themselves in sackcloth and ashes
And called to their god

And all their hearts were as one heart.
And all their voices were as one voice.

God heard them and his mind was moved.

Yet something greater will come to pass.
And who will call?
And what will they call?
Will they call to God?
The air?
The fowl?

It will not matter, if the call is true.
They shall call and this is known.
One voice and each another
Shall enter the dead, the living flower,
Enter forms that we know not.
To be felt by sea,
By air,
By earth
And shall be an elemental pledge.

This is our birthright.
This is our charge.
And we have given over to others.
And they have
not
done
well

And the forests mourn.
The leaves fall.

Swaddling babes watch and wonder
As the fathers of our spirit nations
Dance in the street in celebration
As the mountains turn pale from
Their nuclear hand
And they have
not
done
well

Now my children
You must overturn the tables
Deliver the future from material rule
For only one rule should be considered

The eleventh commandment
To love one another
And this is our covenant across your wrist

This offering is yours
To adorn, adore
To bury
To burn
Upon a mound

To hail
To set away

It is merely a cloth,
Merely our colors,
Invested with the blood of the people
All their hopes and dreams.

Our flag
It has its excellence
Yet it is nothing
It shall not be a tyranny above us

Nor should god
Nor love
Nor nature

Yet we hold as our pleasure this tender honor
That we acknowledge the individual
And the common ground formed

And if our cloth be raised and lowered
Half mast
What does it tell us?

That an individual has passed
Is saluted
And mourned by his countrymen.

This ritual extends to us all.
For we are all the individual.

No unknown.
No insignificant one
Nor insignificant labor
Nor insignificant act of charity

Each has a story to be told and retold
Which shall be a glowing thread
In the fabric of Man

And the children shall march
And bring the colors forward
Investing within them

The redeeming blood
Of their revolutionary hearts.

but the "Don't tread on me" flag is simply badass. I wish I had one, or maybe a t-shirt..