Conservatives aim to reclaim Christmas

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121404dnnatconservative.c6fb838.html


Emboldened by their Election Day successes, some Christian conservatives around the country are trying to put more Christ into Christmas this season.

In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Seasons Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."

The push from the religious right troubles Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "This mixing of secular and religious symbols ought to be seen as a bad thing, not a good thing, for Christian believers," he says. "Unfortunately, some of the Christian pressure groups seem to have it backwards." He adds: "I think it's fair to say it's a mistaken notion that they have a mandate to put more nativity scenes up because George Bush was elected."

But to many, the threats and demands that stores put up "Merry Christmas" signs are no laughing matter. "Why not simply require stores owned by Jews to put a gold star in their ads and on their storefronts?" the Rev. Jim Melnyk, associate rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Raleigh, wrote in a letter to the editor.

to begin with.

Winter Solstice and celebration of the birth of many gods, including Attis, Frey, Thor, Dionysus, Osiris, Adonis, Mithra, Tammuz, to name a few. I personally wouldn't mind exchanging the star for Thor's hammer as a symbol of the season. Or better yet, we could revive the Saturnalia and practice fertility rites--another ancient ceremony associated with the season.

Might want to remind these descendants of Judeo-Christian forefathers that the Puritans outlawed the celebration of Christmas.

Good lord, have you ever conceived of such a collection of concrete thinkers?

is the time of year to celebrate Christ's birth. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably equally content to celebrate the season as a pagan holiday-- as long as we don't allow the god almight dollar to take it over. But, the convenient commemoration of Christ's birth during the winter solstice rather than the probable true timing of his birth, to me does deny it as a distinct commemoration.

That's what I want. A big ass hammer sitting on top of my christmas tree. Not that I have one, but if I did... B-)

get Americans to remember the original intent and meaning of the holiday, which was the birth and therefore LIFE of Jesus? Something that the neocons know nothing about.

What a bunch of lunatics...

good framing.

I certainly hope they get after rapacious greed, insane and wasteful war, economic justice, and the criminal misallocation of wealth and resources. That's on their agenda right after making sure everyone says "Merry Christmas," right? Right?

Like Leviticus sez, NO SHRIMP COCKTAIL FOR YOU!!! Step away from the LOBSTER!!! Women, you cannot EVER cut your hair!! And anyone wearing a polyester-cotton blend shall be STONED to death!

If these sanctimonious fuckers actually had to live by the literal Bible, they'd be insane within a week!! If they mean what they say, they need to do a little less of the talking the talk, and a little more walking the walk. Otherwise, they're just a bunch of loudmouthed bullshitters...but why is that not surprising??

Maybe the Right will have "Merry Christmas" police, bedecked in red and green, enforcing that everyone celebrate it their way. I can't think of anything that will kill the spirit of Christ faster than these idiots enforcing their cartoon ideas of what this event is all about.

Hey, why should I assume they're NOT Jewish?

assholes that started making everything politically correct about 20 years ago? Aren't these just the fruits of their labors coming back to bite them in the ass?

PC was/is a term to attack those who demand some civility in discourse

'I can't say w*p, n****r, c**, etc.....because you guys are being mean to me and demanding political correctness'

FOX hypes stories to claim "Christmas Under Siege"

FOX News is aggressively hyping several small controversies involving public holiday displays that don't explicitly mention Christmas in order to depict a widespread and sinister "attack on Christmas" by "secular Progressives." (Anyone care to take a wild guess to whom they are REALLY referring when they use a term like "secular progressives" ?") Led by hosts Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, FOX News anchors have returned continually to several minor stories whose theme is the purported marginalization or persecution of Christians. A closer examination of each of these stories reveals that they hardly constitute an anti-Christmas trend.

Beginning on December 3, O'Reilly began a recurring segment on The O'Reilly Factor called "Christmas Under Siege." O'Reilly's December 7 "Talking Points Memo" included a litany of anecdotes that appear to show an epidemic of anti-Christmas fervor sweeping the nation:

O'REILLY: All over the country, Christmas is taking flak. In Denver this past weekend, no religious floats were permitted in the holiday parade there. In New York City, Mayor Bloomberg unveiled the "holiday tree," and no Christian Christmas symbols are allowed in the public schools. Federated Department Stores -- that's Macy's -- have done away with the Christmas greeting "Merry Christmas."

Moments later, O'Reilly revealed that this "siege" on Christmas is part of a sinister campaign by "secular progressives" to advance a radical agenda:

O'REILLY: Secular progressives realize that America as it is now will never approve of gay marriage, partial birth abortion, euthanasia, legalized drugs, income redistribution through taxation, and many other progressive visions because of religious opposition.

But if the secularists can destroy religion in the public arena, the brave new progressive world is a possibility. That's what happened in Canada.

Though O'Reilly rarely names these "secular progressives," he has made it clear that Democrats are the target of his attacks. On December 8, he told Representative Brad Carson (D-OK), who recently lost his bid for U.S. Senate in Oklahoma, that "progressive secularists have ruined the Democratic Party." On the December 7 broadcast of the nationally syndicated Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, he declared that "the people at The New York Times, the L.A. Times -- the far left wing of the Democratic Party -- they hate the fact that 82 percent of Americans are Christian." On his December 9 radio show, O'Reilly told a caller: "Remember, more than 90 percent of American homes celebrate Christmas. But, the small minority that is trying to impose its will on the majority is so vicious, so dishonest -- and has to be dealt with."

In fact, the evidence of any concerted "attack on Christmas" disintegrates when one examines the alleged examples.

Denver's "Parade of Lights"

While it's true that Denver's annual "Parade of Lights," held December 3-4, chose not to include the Faith Bible Church's religious float, the Downtown Denver Partnership, the private group that organized the parade, explained that because the small size of the parade forces it to turn down many floats each year, including a religious float would appear to be an act of religious favoritism. The Denver Post explained in a December 4 editorial:

"We have a policy designed to not put us in position to make value judgments which religion gets in," says Jim Basey, president of the partnership.

Unlike other parades, such as Denver's St. Patrick's Day parade that stretches on for hours with dozens of floats and various groups just marching along, the Parade of Lights is limited in size and scope. It only lasts an hour, with elaborate floats that are often re-used from year to year. Organizers turn down many groups each year simply because there isn't time or room for everyone.

O'Reilly debuted the "Christmas Under Siege" series on December 3 with a segment on the Denver parade. In a teaser for the show that aired on FOX throughout the day, O'Reilly asked, "Is the city of Denver attacking -- I mean attacking -- Christmas?" During the show, when a guest defended the partnership's decision by explaining that the parade wasn't meant to honor any particular holiday but, O'Reilly insisted, "It's the Christmas holiday. That's the holiday!" Of course, other religions have December holidays as well.

Bloomberg and New York's "holiday tree"

On his December 6 radio program, O'Reilly was even more explicit in singling out Bloomberg for his choice of words: "Today, New York City, the mayor, Bloomberg, lit a tree but he will not call it a Christmas tree. It's a 'holiday tree.' 'Holiday tree.' The mayor of New York City will not call it a Christmas tree -- all right?"

But while Bloomberg apparently did refer to the tree at Rockefeller Center as a "holiday tree" at the lighting ceremony on December 6, his choice of words is hardly indicative of a trend, as O'Reilly suggested. A press release promoting the ceremony by Swarovski, the crystal company responsible for the 550-pound, 10-foot-wide crystal star atop the tree, touted "the 72nd Annual Rockefeller Center Christmas Tree"; the Associated Press story on the ceremony similarly referred to "the center's famed Christmas tree"; and a website devoted to the tree by New York's local NBC affiliate, WNBC (which includes the live "tree cam"), is prominently titled "Rockefeller Center Christmas Tree."

Christian symbols in New York schools

New York City public school policy does not specifically ban Christian symbols. According to an article in the December 11, 2002, New York Times, "he policy permits what it calls secular holiday decorations, including 'Christmas trees, menorahs and the star and crescent,' according to a memorandum that the schools chancellor's general counsel distributed a year ago. If one symbol is displayed, so should those of other 'beliefs or customs,' it said." The Times reported that the school board is basing its policy on a 1989 Supreme Court case: "In a 1989 decision involving displays in Pittsburgh, the Supreme Court ruled that a Nativity scene at the Allegheny County, Pa., courthouse was unconstitutional because it lacked secular symbols of the Christmas season, making it seem as if the county endorsed the religious message. But it said an 18-foot-tall menorah on the steps of City Hall was acceptable because it was coupled with a 45-foot-tall Christmas tree. The ruling essentially said context had to be considered in each case."

Federated Department Stores and "Merry Christmas"

While Federated Department Stores Inc. has apparently replaced "Merry Christmas" displays with "Happy Holidays" in many of its stores, this development received scant attention before FOX News began hyping the so-called "Committee to Save Merry Christmas," which was apparently the first to complain about holiday displays at Macy's and Bloomingdale's, which Federated owns. O'Reilly devoted an entire segment to the story on the December 1 O'Reilly Factor in which he explained: "I understand this attack on Christmas. We do a lot of reporting on it."

But that "committee" appears to consist of little more than a single individual, Manuel Zammarano, and his website. Moreover, the store allows individual stores to make their own decisions, according to its statement, as Media Matters for America noted when O'Reilly devoted a segment to the story on the December 1 edition of The O'Reilly Factor. Anchor Chris Wallace also scoffed at Federated on the December 5 edition of FOX Broadcasting Company's FOX News Sunday, suggesting that Macy's is bowing to "political correctness":

Macy's, the department store featured in the Christmas movie Miracle on 34th Street, denies it's being politically correct in its advertising by using "Seasons Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." But perhaps there's a hint of the company's thinking in a statement on the corporate Web page, quote: "These expressions of goodwill are more reflective of the multicultural society in which we live." How about this: Bah, humbug! (SO, it would seem it has come to this: If one does not celebrate the holiday..in the manner O'Reilly and FOX deem appropriate, you are committing a crime!!)

What terrible depths will we sink to? Funding the government with... taxes! AAAAAAAAAAHHH!

render unto God what is God's."

Vatican presses the UN to recognise 'Christianophobia'
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent


The Vatican is pressing the United Nations to recognise "Christianophobia" as an evil equal to that of anti-Semitism or "Islamophobia".

Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, the Vatican's foreign minister, said anti-Christian feeling had increased, exacerbated by the war on terrorism.

He said Christianity was often mistakenly seen as being inextricably linked with Western political policy, and had suffered as a result in the backlash against the West.

His comments, at a conference in Rome, were primarily aimed at Middle Eastern countries such as Iraq, where insurgents have bombed a number of churches.

But he also echoed Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger(SEE LINK BELOW FOR MORE ABOUT RATZINGER!!!!), a leading contender to be the next Pope, who said last month that parts of Europe were so now secular that Christianity was being pushed into the margins.

Archbishop Lajolo disclosed that Vatican diplomats were discreetly attempting to persuade the UN and other bodies to recognise the previously almost unheard of term "Christianophobia".

"It should be recognised that the war on terrorism, even though necessary, had as one of its side-effects the spread of 'Christianophobia' in vast areas of the globe," he told the conference. The UN General Assembly in New York is to debate the issue later this month.

Speaking to reporters after his speech, the archbishop said anti-Christian and anti-Catholic sentiments were not only to be found in Muslim countries. Hostility existed in states where Church-sponsored schools or charities were perceived as thinly-veiled attempts at proselytism.

The Vatican is pressing its case despite failing to persuade the European Union to include a reference to the continent's Christian heritage in its new constitution. (gee, wonder why they are accused of proselytising?)

The Vatican campaign has provoked a mixed reaction, with some Christian human rights activists arguing that it could prove counter-productive.

Alexandra Aula of Franciscans International, a Catholic pressure group based in Geneva, said: "Obviously we have seen many countries where Christian minorities are in danger, but we don't think this is the appropriate way to really ensure protection.

"What we fear is that this is the way to start eroding universal human rights. You will then have Sikhs and Buddhists and all the others coming and claiming rights. Where does it end?"

But Vatican officials said privately that they could not stand aside while Judaism and Islam got special attention at the UN. The organisation demands regular reports from member countries on issues officially recognised as international concerns.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26491-2004Nov4.html

Leave me the hell alone. I don't want to be "saved" by the likes of evangelical extremists. I am just fine with God.

They want Christmas? They can have it!!!

My celebration is much better and more peaceful without them.

"But he also echoed Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger(SEE LINK BELOW FOR MORE ABOUT RATZINGER!!!!), a leading contender to be the next Pope, who said last month that parts of Europe were so now secular that Christianity was being pushed into the margins."

The VERY LAST thing I want to know about any person is what his religion is or whether he even has a religion at all. Diplays of one's own religion, or one's own "virtue," for all the world to see only breeds resentment.

A couple of weeks ago, I remember posting that I managed to go all the way through school without ever knowing once the religion of any of my teachers. I knew the religion of some of the kids and their families, because occasionally I went to their church. No one that I can remember wore his religion on the outside. I never heard anything disparaging about any of the religions. I can't help but believe that the need of some to publicize their religious beliefs only serves to create tension and disagreement. Therefore, don't brag about your Christianity, your Judaism, your atheism, your paganism or anything else, for that matter. Then no one will have reason to resent you or your self righteousness. So, pushing ALL religious belief (for and against) to the margins, would probably be the sensible thing to do.

expect some mud on the fabric.
The Vatican has a lot of freakin' gall decrying the "unfairness" of associating Christianity with greed, war, death, and oppression. A lot of freakin' gall.

for their commericals that includes everybody?

With all of the war, poverty, human rights abuses and environmental destruction in the world these Christians are taking the time to stop buying Macy's items because of a store greeting sign.

Yeah right, they hate us because of our freedom.

Note, this is the "committe fo save Merry Christmas." Not a committee to "practice Christmas they way Jesus intended for it to be practiced." Not a "committe to do away with so much commercialism at Christmas time." Not a "committe to help feed the poor at Christmas time." But by damn we're going to save Merry Christmas and make sure that all those stores put up signs that say what WE want them to say, even if the owners don't believe in Christmas/birth of Jesus/Nativity. My hypocrisy meter just blew off the charts.

left of cool

and welcome to DU! :hi:

Just espousing only one of my favorite philosophies..........pissing off fundies!

left of cool

After all, they stole the holiday from us in the first place.

Just as the swiped Easter, All Saints Day, Feast of the Annunciation, and lots of others -- simply in an effort to stamp out Beltane, Samhain, etc.

And you thought those pine trees and rabbits and eggs and stuff are actually Christian symbols! Ha!

Is what you'd get if you related that tid bit of info to these pukes. On the other hand, I do so love a witchy parade. Somebody really ought to start a web site........."Wiccans Reclaim Yule."

left of cool

& godesses to get the people to "join" their religion

And the saddest part is the people who did join will never look hard enough to see it themselves. Christianity is chocked full of pagan rituals and symbols. All you have to do is look just past what you are "told" and you can see it crystal clear.

Great. Why not "We believe in God. Happy Hanukkah."

Do these people not have a clue at all that there are other people of other religions celebrating other holidays at this time of year? ARRRRRGGGGGG. These people make my blood boil.

As one who tries to be an authentic NEW TESTAMENT Christian, I am so sick of this sh*t!

Bake

Of course, facts never get in the way of the RW nuts.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I do want to gently remind everyone who is angered at all this that we need to focus on the hypocrisy and NOT attack true Christians, Christianity in general, the original meaning behind the holiday itself and those who are sincerely offended by what has happened to a formerly truly honorable holiday commemoration. It is easy to generalize and there is damage to be done in doing so... I personally am greatly offended by what has happened to this meaningful day set aside to memorialize the true meaning of Christianity, and I am far from demonstrably religious!

Bottom line is that true Christians MUST reclaim the religion.

Jesus' own words about these people.

From Matthew:

All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them.
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!
33 You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?

Jesus was indeed a great man and a liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would describe these fundies as "Old Testament Christians". Their all over the book of Leviticus and Deuterotomy, but must have simply skimmed over Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Acts, and all of Paul's letters.

I've said it before, but most of the fundies I've met were so morally bankrupt before they "supposedly" found Jesus, that they would make Larry Flynt look like an altar boy.

It's like they say; "the worst kind of non-smoker is a former 2 pack a day smoker".

Why don't they go after that? Glad I am semi-boycotting Christmas.

Like the Church of Christ and others? Are other Christians supposed to boycott them, too?

Christmas ain't in the bible, btw.

With the sale dwindling as they have been.. I hope corprate American thinks twice before supporting the Bush regime and their fundies.

there ya go Target, Walmart.. you supported now you suffer for it.. he laid off all of your demographics.

This is such an invented issue.

The whole "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" messages as opposed to "Merry Christmas" is not about denying Jesus, it's more about including people who aren't necessarily christians into the atmosphere of a holiday.

I think the best argument is that they are being paranoid and need to chill as usual. "Happy Holidays" came about, for better or worse, in the commercialization of this whole season: Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. And it literally means "Holy Days."

To say "Merry Christmas" when it isn't December 25th is like saying "Happy Birthday" to people at any time other than their birthday.

If there was a Jesus, it's more than likely that he wasn't born on Dec. 25th. The Church stole the holiday from other faiths. It's time they gave it back!

LONG LIVE SATURNALIA! LONG LIVE YULE!

Since these frigging Dominionists came out of the woodwork I've refused to call the holiday "Christmas".

It's now President's Day. The date chosen isn't important, the holiday is.

I will happily turn over my share of it to them. They broke it and they can have it.

Baby Jesus and I will just curl up in our little manger and ignore the fundies. Dec. 25th is not the birthday of Christ, anyway.

The religious right is nothing more than a cult gone bad. They will someday destroy themselves as all cultist do. In the meantime, Jesus and I will patiently wait for his truth to prevail.........as surely it will.

:loveya:

"Why not simply require stores owned by Jews to put a gold star in their ads and on their storefronts?" the Rev. Jim Melnyk, associate rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Raleigh, wrote in a letter to the editor.

A perfect example of why one should not use sarcasm in print -- it can be read either way.

Melnyk is cited as one of the people who find the demands to "restore Christmas" to be "no laughing matter."

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

and see nothing in this post and comments which could not be on that web site.....what are you inferring here with that comment ??? I don't get it.


:kick:

people are being denied the right to celebrate Christmas? Is that your point?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Oh shut the fuck up moron. You can take your fucking Xmas and shove up it your ass you dumbfuck. Why should I, as a Jew, be forced to be subjected to Merry fucking Xmas everywhere? Fuck off asshole.

Sorry mods, I know this will be deleted but I'm sick of these sanctimonious blowhards.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

you might have time to attend to their humanity.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

yourself. Then find a few history books and educate yourself some more. You can't have too much knowledge.

I'll make some more Republicans! FUCK YOU! Good grief are you stupid...

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"swarthy" before you come unglued.

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Happy Holidays!

I'm a dirty, dirty swarthy boy! Are you getting wet yet?

It's about skin tone, not personality.

And it's frequently used for dark, mysterious heroes in romance novels.

On edit: from dictionary.com

swarthy

adj : naturally having skin of a dark color; "a dark-skinned beauty"; "gold earrings gleamed against her dusky cheeks"; "a smile on his swarthy face"; "`swart' is archaic"



Tucker

:evilgrin:

Fucking idiot...Oops! There's another Republican convert! Everytime Beet swears, a Repub earns his wings...

run errands, and I really would like to hang around for this thread some more. Bless! Soldier on!

mean by swarthiness? He's being dark and dusky?

Curious minds and all that. Why made ya choose that word exactly? C'mon...tell us. We won't bite. Honest. :evilgrin:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Are your nipples getting erect?

Sorry, but "swarthy" isn't defined as applying to "personality"

and you really, really, need to watch your use of it on this board.

We don't take too kindly on DU to such word usage.

LOL!

Yo, ho, ho! Where's me rum?

Fairly warned be thee says I! AAAARGGGH!!!

What pisser!

That's why he uses such foul words as swarthiness.

Imagine, a person offended by curse words when they call others "swarthy"

How does he know me so well? AAARGGGH!

He's got the gift(?) of Shrub.

Arrrrrrggghh Matey! To Davey Jones' locker w/ this swarthy, swashbuckler!

Someone should tell Cheney

discussed is that the people who are whining about the season have neither a clue about its history nor a willingness to acknowledge the teachings behind their adaptation of the season to religious beliefs. One other poster is correct in that there is more than one religion in this country which has its high holy days within the solstice season. Secondly, what is being whined about by these people is that there's not sufficient acknowledgment of Christas in the commercial sense. Well, I see plenty of lighted dear, creche, Santa Clauses, and trees everywhere in my area. No one is begrudging anyone the right to celebrate a holiday. Personally, I would settle for one solemn Advent service and forgo be indundated with Christmas advertising and hype from before Halloween stock is off the shelves. The only reason I have a tree up this year at all is for my little grandchildren. Otherwise, I had Christmas fatigue before Thanksgiving. Christians as a whole would benefit from a cessation of navel-gazing and start looking outward. Perhaps they could see the beauty of mankind, the world and the day that has been given us, and maybe be thankful for a chance to live the teachings of Christ, not the televangelists.

Never before have I seen so many garish in-your-face lit up "Merry Christmas" displays and cooperative neighborhood house decorations and lights on whole blocks of houses. The feeling I get is that these "Christian" assholes are compensating for the guilt they ought to be feeling for the senseless murder of the Iraqis and their general lack of true Christian charity.

at this time of year too you selfish bastards.

they need it...

We don't

Now they are insulted by the inclusiveness of the Happy Holidays monicker... becasue that is a progresive value, not a stern father figure.

Now don't tell these christian pressure groups that they are also cheap conservatives and at times radcons.

can kiss my ever-loving ass.


Edit: to correct my remarks :)

Now, I really do feel better.

which, as someone has already pointed out, doesn't always come out in print.

bull.

Guess I jumped the gun in my anger.

Melnyk is cited as one of the people who find the demands to "restore Christmas" to be "no laughing matter."

Which I did.

I stand corrected.

My daughter likes the band Bad Religion and has one of their tshirts...it has one of those "no smoking" circle signs except with a cross in the middle and says Bad Religion on it. The occassional quiet gasp and stares that she gets are pretty amusing when we are out and about. We were kinda bummed we didn't know about the "gather round the flag pole and pray" day at her high school this year cuz she would have worn it to school--I drop her off in front of the flag pole area each day :evilgrin:

Maybe we just need to encourage them so people will see how truly wacky they are.

(http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_icons.shtml - most of the way down)

Tech Support: "All right...now double-click on the File Manager icon."
Customer: "That's why I hate this Windows -- because of the icons -- I'm a Protestant, and I don't believe in icons."
Tech Support: "Well, that's just an industry term sir. I don't believe it was meant to --"
Customer: "I don't care about any 'Industry Terms'. I don't believe in icons."
Tech Support: "Well...why don't you click on the 'little picture' of a file cabinet...is 'little picture' ok?"
Customer: (click)

offending millions of Americans."

Yeah, their votes weren't correct. Politically. They voted for *.

Damn there's just no end to how far the religious right is going to push. Makes me think they may do themselves more harm than good.

Well, they were on another close topic, but they declared they hated the secularization of Christmas, PC attitudes about saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, but i the next sentence inviting Jews and Muslims to celebrate theri holidays (I guess by saying "Merry Christmas".) One author declared she would respond with MC if anyone said HH to her.

to go read the Bible, specifically Jeramiah 10:2-4 which pretty much says do not give into pagan traditions and even points out "trees decorated with gold and silver"

(shoving notes in my pockets for reference)

What's to reclaim? I can't walk out of the house without being assaulted with lights and bells and Merry this and Happy that and BUY MORE, BUY MORE, YOU SUCK AS A HUMAN BEING IF YOU DON'T GO INTO DEBT FOR CHRISTMAS. You can't pick up a magazine without being assaulted by recipes for sugary fatty Christmas crap food or demands that you craft some sort of worthless ticky-tacky Christmas decorations. You can't open the newspaper without having fifteen pounds of store ads extolling the necessity of consuming mass quantities for the sake of the Christmas spirit all but crush your legs. I can't walk around at work without people wanting me to sign up for Christmas potlucks and Christmas gift-exchanges or wanting to know why I don't have any decorations for Christmas in my office.

Reclaim Christmas, my ass. Christmas has become a commercial blitzkrieg of monumental proportions. If there's one thing in this society that's not in the slightest danger, it's fucking Christmas.

A mad dash to buy buy buy, spend spend spend, go into debt rather than feeling guilty for not spending enough money for gifts. No present to big, no debt too big, no meal too big. Christmas is nothing but one big gluttonous conservative/republican cash orgy. Why don't they shut their fucking pie holes? If they don't like Christmas the way it is, they have nobody but themselves to make.

I quite agree.

Why not simply require stores owned by Jews to put a gold star in their ads and on their storefronts?" the Rev. Jim Melnyk, associate rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Raleigh, wrote in a letter to the editor.

Because, it'd be the same thing back in Germany from... 1923 to 1946.

ANATA DAI BAKANA!

They dance around the cash registers singing, "What A Friend We Have In Jesus." KA-CHING!

Bake

see if our little furry critter had been tombstoned. Was gratified to see that the xenophobic munchkin bit the dust.

Was reading some of the newer posts. Any one want to start a Scrooge movement against Christmas and its commercialization? I'm thinking of a "Bah, Humbug" kinda wish to all those Commercial Christians, all decorations hand made and garishly displayed. I'm a Christian and I'm more than fed up.

and in the way this christian* group approves, as a condition of employment in retail and as a requirement for owning a retail business? Are we going to start boycotting non-Christian businesses (and didn't Hitler do that too?)

And as a religious minority, I am having a bit of difficulty getting their point. Honestly, y'alls refusal to acknowledge Purim has never really interfered with my enjoyment or participation in that holiday. I mean, take a wee bit of responsibility for your own spirituality for goodness sakes. (In otherwords, if your faith is so weak that some clerk wishing you "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas shakes it, you need to take a look inside, not out.)

:thumbsup: