I've Had It.

I've had it with a certain common mentality around here. This mentality dictates that no matter how awful an action by a nation or group is, the U.S, is worse or is responsible for said action. The thing that really pisses me off is that when some poster notes something terrible that's been perpetrated by an actor other than the U.S. , they're often jumped on by subsequent posters for ignoring the evils of the U.S., and of being an apologist for the U.S. Well, screw that. Recognizing that evils exist that aren't directly attributable to the U.S. doesn't mean that one is some wingnut. The U.S. is responsible for a great deal, but I don't have to tack that on to every comment I make.

End of Rant.

:)

we've definitely made an impact in the last 225+ years far out of proportion to our geographical size and percentage of world population. ;)

I find this topic always leads directly to an impasse. There is "good" and "bad" anywhere you look. What is good and what is bad completely depends upon your frame of reference and perspective.

The point is neither I nor anyone else should have to constantly post that litany when we make a comment or criticism about another actor on the world stage.

If someone wants to try to derail an argument against an evil elsewhere in the manner you describe, is there any reason you should HAVE to dignify it with a response?

Just take it as a statement and agree or disagree as you see fit. If you find the point irrelevant, don't let yourself be drawn into an argument of comparative evils.

:nopity:

occurred on an old one. You could always address this issue with the people who do this rather than scolding the whole forum.

and that this absolutely deserved it's own thread. This happens frequently here, not just on one old thread. I'm not scolding the whole forum, I'm expressing my disgust with a certain mindset.

Now that you've put it that way, this absolutely did deserve its own thread then. As a matter of fact I'm nominating it for the front page. Yup, you've proved me wrong.

Thanks for starting a whole thread trumpeting your disgust with a "certain" mindset that is expressed all too frequently here.

I've seen the light.

it seems to me as if some people are better at spotting trends and generalizations than others. I've never noticed what you are talking about being a pervasive problem. I've certainly detected it once in awhile from individuals, but can't say it's popped up on my radar as a common expectation. With 50,000+ people posting, "around here" usually has more exceptions than rules.

In a varied discussion group you are going to come across a wide variety of opinions.

Some are going to agree with you wholeheartedly while others are going to disagree while others are going to deflect the issue.

It's just human nature. That's the nature of discussion groups. If everyone just said "Mega-dittos!" to every post, we'd be the Rush Limbaugh show.

You're beautiful, big-hearted, and in many ways you're free
And you're smart enough to get the world how you want it to be
So it's hard for me to tell you what you shouldn't have to hear:
Your nation is that terrorist most human beings fear

Nicaragua, El Salvador, Columbia and Nam,
Cambodia, Grenada, Chile, and Afghanistan,
Palestinian and Iraqi, and some more you never knew -
A united states of people who deserved as much as you

So tell me that you don't support this war, or don't tell me nothin'
'Cos if this song of mine don't change your heart, then it was not worth singing.
But I believe you did your best, chasing life and happiness,
Never wondered never guessed, how the news had been suppressed
Of a never-ending killing-fest, rip the kid from the Mama's breast,
Shrapnel thru her daddy's chest while we're all singing,
"Glory Hallelujah!" -
I'm talking to ya.

Somebody made a killing in your name.
So take your power back, or take the blame.

http://www.seizetheday.org/UnitedStates.htm

great web site, as well

when are all the squishies going to wake up to the realities that have been self evident for decades?

along similar lines, here's a refresher from awhile back, from Bruce Cockburn

here comes the helicopter -- second time today
everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
how many kids they've murdered only god can say
if i had a rocket launcher...i'd make somebody pay.

i don't believe in guarded borders and i don't believe in hate
i don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
and when i talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
if i had a rocket launcher...i would retaliate

on the rio lacantun one hundred thousand wait
to fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate.
cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
if i had a rocket launcher...i would not hesitate

i want to raise every voice -- at least i've got to try.
every time i think about it water rises to my eyes.
situation desperate echoes of the victims cry
if i had a rocket launcher...some sonofabitch would die

Bill Moyers played that at the end of one of his specials

I advocate a REAL progressive agenda. Just because we're about to go murder thousands of Iranians, it doens't make it right to stone an "adultress" to death.

And when someone shoots up a school full of children in Russia, it doesn't mean we should ignore it because we do things that are just as bad.

And just because Castro probably runs better government than we do here, it doesn't make all of his actions right.

And so on. ALL of these nations, all of these leaders, should be held to account, just as the * administration should be held to account. It's not an either/or situation. There are bastards of every stripe in every country, and they need to be called as such.

Thanks.

by a message board.

I don't feel victimized in the least. I do feel disturbed by a mindset that either states or implies that there is only one legitimate target of criticism. You don't get that? I can't say I'm surprised.

face it...you got pissed at a thread in LBN and instead of voicing your concerns there to the person in question you felt the need to scold the forum in general.

You don't get that? I can't say I'm surprised either.

:evilgrin:

can't stand criticism of the US. Those who blindly hate the US can't stand criticism of any other country (save for maybe the very few members of the "coalition").

ALL Blindness must GO! :nuke:

let me tell you why I decided to make a deal out of it on a paticular thread that has already been referenced on this one. I believe in fixing one's own house before criticising someone else for having the same problem. tHe stoneing thread, for instance, I frankly still don't see why some of the same people who celebrated the pending execution of Scott Petersen are so shocked that Iran executes people as well? That's my point, and why it's relevant.

We sometime get a little eurocentric in our opinions, and I call people on it. Sorry that upsets you, but it is much more relevant ot me that my country executes people than the fact that another country does as well. Herer the us is comepletely equivalent, not worse, not better, equvalent. we are morally equivalent on this topic with North Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, China and Iran. Given that we are a 'democracy' and that those are all dictatorships, doesn't it sicken you that the people of the united states, collectively, are the moral equvalents of the military and theological dictatorships of those states? There is no connection between the united states and most of the evil in the world, of course there isn't. but I won't let you forget the many evils at home in your quest to expose others.

I think the biggest problem a lot of "progressives" have on this board is that they think America (and more broadly, the West) is always wrong, therefore they always side against American values on any issue. Witness the thread where a DU poster tried to defend the stoning of an Iranian woman ("she knew the consequences so she had it coming)- I'm sure that his only motivation was the fact that Iran hates America.

This is a very old phenomenon. Back in 1940, when Hitler and Stalin were buddies, American communists were opposed to aiding Britain. More recently there was the 180 the Left pulled on the right-wing Argentinian dictator after he started a war with Britain- almost overnight, the Left lionized Galtieri for going up against Thatcher. Let's not forget Saddam Hussein- he was the bad guy when he fought Iran, but the Left rushed to his support when he attacked Kuwait. The truth is some people who claim to be "progressive" are no better than the cold war leaders who supported dictators who were anti-Soviet. At least they were honest enough to admit "Sure he's a bastard, but he's OUR bastard".

I really think this mentality helps explain to some extent why Bush won- people heard (presumed) Kerry supporters rushing to the defence of monsters and associated that mindset with the candidate.

they pointed out that the right supported his aggression against Iran (and gassing his own people) when it suited the right.

They pointed out that we sold him chemical weapons. They pointed out that GHWB told SH that if he attacked Kuwait it was none of the US's business and when he did, we attacked.

Pointing out the hypocrisy of the right is not supporting Saddam Hussein. In a conflict you can support one, both or neither side. IIRC, in this instance it was neither.

What is this about Kerry supporters defending monsters? I'd like a link if you have one.

If we are not willing to admit that America has problems