OK people, particularly homosexuals, I need answers

We all agree that its wrong to hate people based on their race, color, creed or sexual orientation. So why all the hatred for the late Reggie White based on some comments he made SIX years ago and for which he later apologized? If hatred is wrong, its wrong. It seems that a lot of homosexuals in here hate Reggie and are unwilling to forgive him. Well I'm here to say that in my opinion, an attitude like that will set back the fight for homosexual equal rights, as a lot of people will say that you are haters as well. One question I have is since when do two wrongs make a right? I have tried to raise my children that way, as have millions of others across this world, and yet in DU, there is a vocal minority who continue to peddle hatred, not only of Reggie White, but of anyone or anything who opposes homosexual marriage and/or rights. Just for the record, I don't really care about same sex marriages, if you want to get married, great, and don't like it when homosexuals are discriminated against simply because of their sexual preference. But you all may want to tone down your hatred of all who allegedly oppose you. If anyone reads this, I suppose I'll get hammered, but it doesn't matter anymore. He helped people who were less fortunate and I hope some of you will as well. RIP Reggie White.

I guess if Fred Phelps apologized tomorrow, I should just wipe the slate clean?

If Richard Butler (the infamous white supremecist) had apologized, I should forgive him for fostering a racist movement?

you know...one of the most outspoken Democrats out there and previously a Klansman? Judging from your statements here I guess the answer would be no...

theProdigal

It took years for him to make up for his past.

Sometimes, "I'm sorry" just isn't enough.

That being said, I still feel that I can appreciate his contributions to the party and to the country. I don't really regard George Washington and Thomas Jefferson as men of great character, but I do apprecate the contributions that they made to the country. That is basically how I feel about Byrd.

a few years ago, he used the term "nigger lover" on Faux news. Why would anyone use a term like that who is not a racist?

I applaud his efforts against the war, but can not forgive him for his racism and homophobia.

"There are no gay people in West Virginia" indeed.

I commend your consistency. Do you believe that people CAN change their stripes with time? I know that my veiws on many things have changed over the years and I have come to regret some of the things that I have done and said...could others?

theProdigal

He was leaving Christianity and was studying other religions. I forgive him. With that I believe I have become the meek.

Reggie White seems to have CHOSEN his attitude. He could have CHOSEN a different attitude.

I have no problem being very vocal about how I feel about people who engage in things I disagree with as long as it is not a PART of them.

Here's what I mean: I would never hate someone based on their skin color, their sexuality, their gender, their age, etc. They CAN'T HELP those things.

You CAN help being a homophobic bigot, though. So I feel no compunction whatsoever in hating hate.

And I don't care WHAT other people think about my hating hate and having a distinct intolerance for intolerance.

Once a catastrophic decision is made, there is no easy way to fix it.

It is easier to destroy than to create.

But spout a bunch of words? I don't know how much money he had. Did he donate his estate to some of the causes he railed against?

I did not know he apologized. I can't follow everything at once, and I'm surprised that the media (via a recent MSNBC article, no less) had even said Mr. White had changed his viewpoint.

And you're right. Two wrongs don't make a right. But it might get both drivers to slow down, look to see where they're going, and alter course to a sweeter destination.

And, as a homosexual, forcing us into somebody's religious security blanket is wrong and will do no good. Indeed, I got royally livid during summer 2004 when all the hyper homos made a big stink about it, knowing it would help *. Guess what, * happily made an issue out of it. And got support for it because people prefer looking at two issues that don't affect them as much as looking at issues that do directly affect them because, let's face it, protecting a myth is far more important than how the government governs the people and conducts worldwide business. And a myth which has been translated so many times by so many people that none of it can truly be given any credibility, forgive me. :eyes:

But I will be vocal in opposition to a 'civil union', which is utterly seprate from any mythological superstition. Period. A civil union, as like a marriage, gives them another reason to tax anyway. Mo money in order to fix our broken system...

but what exactly did he say/do? :shrug:

Thank you.

I want to see HIS words. Not something someone else says.

Check out this article at MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6756065/

Everyone deserves a chance for dedemption.

has gone from being a Klan member to being a progressive Democrat. Imagine if he had been written off! From the article, it looks like Reggie White had definitely changed his views.

his final days.

nearly enough to actions. To me, spending one minute pouring one bowl of soup for a hungry person is worth more than a thousand miles of marching or a thousand hours of holding a protest sign on a street corner.

In East Tennessee, Reggie White made millions of dollars worth of NO-INTEREST small business loans and mortgages to people who had no credit. He gave people a chance who wouldn't have otherwise had it.

East Tennessee will miss Reggie White, even if Democratic Underground will not.

problem.

Of course, finding a cure is ideal.

hate? I suppose you'd forgive Bush all his transgressions if you saw him at a soup kitchen.

capacity to produce enough soup in a million years for him to make up for the shit that he's done.

why would a football player be an exception for you?

Those here that are trampling on his grave are judging him by his words. And there were a scant few that were ugly and despicable - mainly his rampage in the Wisconsin state legislature.

His actions; the real, tangible things he did to help the the poor in East Tennessee (and Wisconsin, I can only assume) carry much more weight to me than the things he said at the legislature (which he later recanted an apologized for).

If you are truly judging Reggie White by his actions, and you know what his actions were, I doubt you are one of the ones who are spitting on his grave.

I cannot forgive someone's words against one group of people simply because that same person helps other groups. Sure, he's out there helping those he thinks are "worthy" of his help... a few good deeds and a few insincere apologies do not make up for anything.

to forgive Lester Maddox? Maybe Native Americans should all bless the memories of George Armstrong Custer and W. T. Sherman? Sorry, but all that does is validate prejudice.

Okasha

I mean, slavery was like 150 years ago! Can't they just let it go? Sheesh - what a bunch of crybabies. Don't they realize their bitching and moaning is just setting back minority rights? In fact, railing against racists is just another form of bigotry! Damn peddlers of hatred.
/sarcasm

(the saddest thing is that so many folks here won't recognize selbstandig sarcasm - so the tag has to be there... sigh...)

A few repentant statements that hardly anybody paid attention to just does not balance out all of the ignorance and hate he spewed during his life.

I believe theoretically everyone can be redeemed (and I don't mean in a Christian sense), but nothing in his record indicates to me that he even got close.

but hating some kind of hate does, doesn´t it? The guy hated homosexuals and the homosexuals hated him for his hatred. That seems kinda natural to me. I don´t know.. I think hating people based on their sexual orientation is pure discrimination, and hating discrimination is a good thing if you ask me. But on the other hand, he apologized right? I think some people are just ignorant. Some of them are lucky enough to meet someone who makes them change their mind. But people who truly hate won´t ever change their mind. Maybe he was just ignorant then, because he did apologize. I don´t know the guy, or what he said, so this really is a objective opinion. Don´t know if it makes any sense.

An odd concept, at best.

He used his position in the spotlight to spread bigotry.

I wonder how damn tolerant you would be of his spreading hatred if had been against any other group?

sorry.. still dont get the whole quoting thing around here *shame* as I said, I don´t know the guy. First of all, I´m like the total anti-sport girl and second of all I´m dutch. I have no freaking idea who this guy is. I just assumed he did apologize for what he said because that´s what the original message said. I also said that hating some kind of hatred seems like a good thing to me, so hating the guy for what he said doesn´t seem unnatural. And yeah... I consider myself tolerant. Never thought of it as a bad thing though... So exactly what are you trying to say with that last sentence?

..or asking if he did anything like use his money to fund violence against gays or something.

which is my fault, my English is just not that good, so I had no idea who you wanted to respond. Sorry

note to self: use dictionary more often ;)

That even though he apparently changed his mind at the end of his life, there was a LOT more he could do than just change his rhetoric. Actions speak louder than words. What did he do to fix it?!?

Thought he did apologize but even that´s not for sure I guess.

When did he come out in public and say to the media that he was wrong? When did he go to his teammates and apologize for him putting them in a position as their team leader to promote his ugly homophobia? When did he make it very public that he had a complete change of mind? When was that? I want to know.

Why? Because I am tired of the front page/lead story homo bash, and the later in life contemplative, gazing out the window, maybe I was wrong, but I won't make it widely known/glowing introspection life re-writes by media sports hacks.

What makes this doubly repugant is that he was magnificent football player, who deserved all that he achieved, but also used his place of esteem by fans as a bully pulpit for religious nut ravings.

In that session in Wisconsin, when I saw that speech and the reaction of the politicians, two things struck me as sickening. First, that someone did not tell him prior to that speech to lay off the relgion, and secondly the cowards that serve in the Wsiconsin legislature, that not one had the guts to walk out when it got creepy. Not one. To walk out on Reggie White would be political suicide. So they sat there....and sat, then a minority clucked their mild disapproval, very mild disaproval.

That's what being a Hall of Famer will get you. A stone faced legislature too terrified to move, even when you come up with the most heinous speech ever delivered in that chamber in years.

So now we have it on "authority" or whatever whore sports writer, that he was different. Now he's different. Now.

This is the first I heard of it. My Latino partner will be interested too, although not mentioned, Reggies comments on Hispanics were also insensitive to say the Least. Your answer is this: "too bad these apologies never made the media" Don't blame us, we are already taking the fall for MaryBeth Cahill's lousy campaign.I don't really care about your rights either.

"...who continue to peddle hatred, not only of Reggie White, but of anyone or anything who opposes homosexual marriage and/or rights."

How exactly is it hate to hold in scorn those who oppose civil rights for all Americans?

Why is it hate to protest and speak out against bigots? And it is bigotry that promotes the denial of civil rights.

I'm so sick and tired of people who defend racists and bigots while accusing the victims of racism and bigotry of hate. GLBT were the VICTIMS of White's attack. Can you honestly blame victims for feeling anger toward their attackers?


Don't confuse anger with hate.

I don't hate White...but I am very angry with him.

Why is it you expect us to be tolerant and forgiving of those who would deny rights to GLBT?


You said:

"Just for the record, I don't really care about same sex marriages, if you want to get married, great, and don't like it when homosexuals are discriminated against simply because of their sexual preference."


There is NO moral victory in allowing bigots to get a pass. Not even in death. Maybe because you have nothing at stake it's easier for you to be so dismissive of the rights of others. Sure, you don't want GLBT to be discriminated against...but "I don't really care about same sex marriages"...well, you should care....you should care a great deal.
We only retain our rights be defending the rights of others. By caring about the rights of others.

White had every legal right to spout his ignorance and hate. But just remember, while you accuse the victims of bigotry of hate themselves, that White used his guaranteed right against a group of people who aren't guaranteed full legal rights under the law.

Seems that there are well articulated posts in LBN as to why people didn't appreciate how he used his celebrity status to bash the hell out of gays and lesbians. Very few of those posts are "hateful". As I posted in LBN, if he repented, so be it, but did I miss his latest sermons on how wrong he was wrong to have bashed gay folks in the first place? I didn't think so...
He was a hateful person with an agenda and a platform....he affected the lives of many and not everyone gives a shit if he was a good football player or not...

Ann Arbor

It's all water under the bridge when they croak.

:shrug:

...for spreading his bigotry, but found scads of time to bash gays Americans publically time after time after time.

Perhaps he chose a private penance?

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks posting here and on LBN are not Homosexual....why does it matter anyway? He insulted the sensibilities of both straight and gay people.

Ann Arbor

While I think it is tragic about Rev. White's premature death (he was a few years younger than me), I believe he was sucked in the false notion, that he, a celebrity (and a very talented defensive end in his own right) that he had a right to use his celebrity status as a bully pulpit for whatever he believed in, right or wrong.

Reggie White had been a minister since he was 17, and I suspect his anti-gay missives resulted from his upbringing and religious training he had.

Reggie White's comments were no different than the other African Amerian Protestant ministers who believe and preach that homosexuality is a sin. What differentiated Rev. White from the numerous African American ministers who preach homosexuality as sin in their community pulpits on Sunday mornings was the fact he had celebrity status as a football player and a place was made for him to speak his beliefs to a wider public audience (e.g. the Wisconsin legislature).

and then you don't even bother to answer a single post. I think this post is what is known as "bomb throwing"

:nuke:

Where da Bluzmann57 go after demanding "particularly" certain folk (dissed by his football hero) express deyselves? :shrug:

post count ain't everything...

Rather suspicious, to say the least....
Over 40 replies and not a single comment to one of them?

:toast:

and cheers to you as well...
Ann Arbor

Just a thought :)

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Why the emphasis on answers from homosexuals? Based upon the number of replies, heterosexuals didn't appear to like him much either.

Just wondering....

Ann Arbor

:freak:

so I am going to put this to bed once and for all. I have a life which I chose to live. We took the daughter out for a Sunday lunch, as she is home from school. I'm sorry that I don't meet your standards. Well not really, but anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this subject is closed. Have a nice day.

Reggie White's comments made me angry. He spread venom that dehumanized gays. Appologies are good but there's also the idea of reparations, taking actions to show that you are sorry for the hurts you have caused. I hav yet to read of what White did to right his wrongs.

Simple as that.





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but I feel sorry for him now that he's in hell. Perhaps we should picket his funeral a la Fred Phelps with signs saying "Reggie's been in hell for X number of days because of his hate and intolerance." Isn't that how the new Christian Taliban would behave? No, I guess that would make us "homosexuals" just as mean-spirited as Reggie was.

Ding, dong the bigot's dead.

my ignorance on his history precludes any fair evaluation. It's a little tough to be all that forgiving for what SEEMS to have been a career of bigotry. And that's all I'll say about it.

oppose me having equal rights, and i'm going to oppose YOU. Why would anyone expect any different? Hey, whatever good things he did were good, and the bad things he did and said were bad. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other.

Yes, hate is wrong. But not all the comments made about White were about hate. It doesn't matter how long ago the comments were made. If he didn't SHOW (by his ACTIONS) that he had changed his views, his words are SHIT! As a GAY person, I don't HATE White, but he did disgust me!

You stated: Well I'm here to say that in my opinion, an attitude like that will set back the fight for homosexual equal rights, as a lot of people will say that you are haters as well. Well, I'm here to say that my in opinion an attitude like YOURS will set back the rights for gay EQUAL rights! We should excuse bigots?! We should "sit in the back of the bus" like good little faggots? We should not express anger?! Fuck that! Turn the other cheek and you end up with two bruised cheeks! At some point one must stand for what is right and just!

One question I have is since when do two wrongs make a right? I have tried to raise my children that way, as have millions of others across this world, and yet in DU, there is a vocal minority who continue to peddle hatred, not only of Reggie White, but of anyone or anything who opposes homosexual marriage and/or rights. Just for the record, I don't really care about same sex marriages, if you want to get married, great, and don't like it when homosexuals are discriminated against simply because of their sexual preference. Two wrongs don't make a right. But silence is consent! To disagree with something is not the same as to "peddle hate." How can you say you don't care about same sex marriage, but you you don't like discrimination against 'homosexuals?' The fact that we can't have our partnerships recognized by the STATE is discrimination!

I guess you are getting "hammered" in this post by me, but since you don't care, it is of little consequence. Therefore, I will say you are a marginal bigot when it comes to gays. We are OK as long as we "know our place" and don't make you or your kind "too uncomfortable." You are the kind of person I fear...with the Klan, I can see the white sheet.

He may have helped some less fortunate. Do his words not count? How many young people listened to him and committed acts against gays? How many young gays are now dead because of his hate? Do they get a RIP from you as well?

I feel for his family. To lose a loved one is hard. I know, I have watched many of my friends die from AIDS because it was a "fag disease" and they didn't "count."

He is no martyr, nor are you!

but its perfectly fine to hate people because of something they said/did