I dislike Lieberman more than Bush.

Before you start bashing me, think about what I'm saying.

Lieberman is trying to force the Democratic Party to become more fascist than Bush! He says in his I-pretend-I'm-retarded-like-Bush voice, "The American people want a candidate who's strong on defense."

He's more dangerous than Bush is. By attempting to have the Democratic Party have nearly the same platform as the GOP he's bringing this country closer to the one-party state. He acts as though it's simply unreasonable that people dislike Bush BECAUSE of his defense policy and human rights abuses.

His platform is also ridiculous. He's Bush + taxes. Because don't think this slimeball is going to raise taxes to fund schools and social services. No, he's going to refuse to cut, or even raise, defense spending and possibly start playing the cowboy with Iran or Syria.

His religion IS an issue if foreign policy is an issue. He has no credibility on Mideastern policy if he's a Jewish fanatic. He's not a secular, free-thinking Jew who have brought progress to the Western world; he's a zealot.

OK, I'm finished with my rant. Start throwing the tomatoes.

I can't see how any true democrat would vote for him.

Infact, my dislike for Lieberman has evolved to hatred.

:silly:

backstab Gore?

Oh, yes I forgot to include his comments at the debates. "Dean's depression"? What the hell? Does this guy have any party loyalty or does he only think of himself? Has he even entertained the possiblity that Dean will get the nom and that his smart-ass comments are going to be played on the media as propaganda against Dean?

A real backstabbing asshole.

During the Florida mess, Gore was following the law to not count late military ballots. Lieberman, looking out for his own political aspirations, went behind Gore's back and told the press the ballots should be counted, even if counting the undated ones was against the law.

Thanks to Lieberman, the illegal ballots were counted, and Gore's fate was history.

"A real backstabbing asshole." Indeed.

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But in the end, I would vote Lieberman over Bush. I think part of Lieberman's position is really dishonest pandering to the right to get votes.

But I could easily put up with Joe's whiny voice, and sonombulism over the pin-head.

Again you show the real reason why people don't like Lieberman here: He is a Jew who supports Israel. You just said it.

I find it funny because every other Democrat is pro-Israel. Yet they don't get singled out.

He is not like Bush. That claim is ridiculous? Do you honestly think Lieberman would have appointed Ashcroft as Attorney General? Do you honestly think that the likes of Gail Norton would hold cabinet offices?

Lieberman has been treated horribly here on this board for two years now. I've seen his character assasinated by people who trot out the same lies over and over again even though they were still not true the first time they were said.

I am voting for Dean. I don't think Lieberman is aggressive enough to beat Bush. I don't like what he has been doing. But he isn't a right wing monster either.

Lieberman bashing is a way to show your stripes here on the DU, facts be damned :eyes:

But based on the polls from last night conducted here some DUers are clearly out of the mainstream. And so there is a bully like mentality here to anyone who doesn't follow the crowd here.

There's a bully-like mentality by those who want the Democratic Party to be virtually indistinguishable from the GOP and use baseless anti-Semitism claims on almost a daily basis to back up their point.

"I find it funny because every other Democrat is pro-Israel. Yet they don't get singled out."

The issue here isn't really being pro-Israeli (because basically all politicians are bought by AIPAC), but, you said it, that he's Jewish. I don't want America being seen by Arabs as a Jewish country. No thanks. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, it would be cool; but with so much anti-Americanism in the Muslim world, the last thing we want is a Jewish man so openly pro-Israeli in charge of foreign policy. He has no credibility in foreign policy and would only increase tensions between the Muslim world and America.

You are against Lieberman because he is Jewish. At least you are openly admitting your anti-Jewish sentiment. I do commend you on your honesty here, as I only wish that other DUers would be just as candid.

Just why show such favoritism to one country over another? Calm down.

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with this statement??

The issue here isn't really being pro-Israeli (because basically all politicians are bought by AIPAC), but, you said it, that he's Jewish.

... rather than imagine something I've not said. Does the word 'theocrat' ring a bell? (How about 'strawman'?) Virtually every I/P-Lieberman-AIPAC thread becomes infected with rabidly projective ad hominism: abusively personal attacks based on pretentions of mind-reading and sooth-saying. Not accidentally, Carlos' posts seem to find the center of most of the mudfight subthreads, always with the same logic-free accusatory self-righteousness. Unencumbered with empiracism or objectivity, these posts are accessorized with crystal balls, lock-step mediocracy, mind-reading, and patronage: engraved tablets from on high. :puke:

I didn't ask you about Carlos' posts. I would have reread yours but, for some reason, it has been deleted.

The bandwagon jumping that Lieberman is a potential theocrat is repulsive. There are PLENTY of bonafide reasons to not like Lieberman as a candidate without harping on imaginary crap like that.

Here we have someone who in a post specifically states he would not vote for him because he is a Jew.

How long would I last on DU if I posted a message that I would prefer Bush over Sharpton because Sharpton is African-American?

To be so blatantly pro-israel is to invite trouble.

"invite trouble?" because they are just as pro-Israel?

Because they're not GOP enablers, with the sometime exception of Dick Gephardt.

nt

About when Kennedy was running, the first catholic ever to become President (and thus a kind of hero to him.) Because of his faith, many on the right were arguing that the soviets would be upset and more belligerent because they would fear that a catholic president would intervene more in Poland and other Catholic countries. They said it would be horrible for our security. Well all I have to say is this, Kennedy made plenty of mistakes in foreign affairs, but if Richard Nixon were their during the Cuban Missle Crisis, we would all be dead. Many of the Arabs, a lot of them legitmately, hae a problem with the US no matter who is in charge, so a man's faith does will not affect his ability to do his job.

nt

Not a Lieberman supporter here, but the atacks on his faith are amazing in a Progressie forum.

It's because a lot of people here are anti-religion.

1. Lieberman is too pro-Israel. This is not ragging on him cause he's jewish. Hell, I am jewish. But Israel has enough rescources to help itself already. Sharon on the other hand is the kind of legitimized militant that is fatal to any kind of peace plan. It will take close work with the Palestinians to progress with Sharon in power.
2. He's overly hawkish in his foreign policy already, and is only now voicing slight differences with Bush on the war because it is poll boosting.
3. Let me ask you a question, and remember I am jewish so don't take offense, do you think the Israelies would accept america as an ally if our president were an arab? Think about that.

Peace :kick:

How is Lieberman more "pro-Isreal" than Kerry, Gephardt, Graham, and Dean?

That's similar to Gephardt and Graham, half-way similar to Kerry's waffling, and completely different than Dean's.

nt

Joe Lieberman -- over and over and over again. He also talks about cracking down on Hezbollah and Hamas -- code language to invade Syria and Iran.

Why would an Arab-American be any better than a Jewish-American? They're both American.

Bu the point is that most of the Arab nations are already hostile to us, Lieberman is not going to make a difference. I would think however, that if an Arab was elected President and was pro-Isareal, most Israelis would prob be ok with it, they are prob more cocnerned with the policy of the President towards them.

I just dont like Lieberman's attiude. Hear me. JFK's behavior during the Cuban Missile Crisis and reading about it because unlike you I wasnt alive then and experiencing the Bush rush to Iraq, I thought what JFK did was stellar. Ive also read on the anti-Catholicism. I would say I could be netural on I-P I dont know where I stand, but Lieberman's attiude is what bothers me.

Why do we think he rails about the "Dean depression," for instance? Lieberman has spent his entire life pimping for pharmaceuticals, defense contractors, insurance companies, and superbanks.

And yes, I agree that many are consciously or at least unconsciously worried that a militarist Jew at the helm will bring daily terrorism to the United States, turning the United States into Israel.

And you know that too. But as I said I don't support Lieberman and what he is doing. Then again a lot of the attacks made against him daily aren't fair.

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nt

...that you also don't want an atheist in the White House, lest the USA be seen as anti-religious in the Musilm world. You probably won't vote for a woman for president, because after all Muslim fundies will interpret that as a cultural strike against Islam. Right? :eyes:

Welcome to my ignore list, btw.

I wouldn't have problem with an athiest in the White House.

It's not the fact that he's Jewish....its his policies/ideology.

I would vote for a woman, no problem. But if she staunchly supported a woman-only country that had some enemies and was at war all the time, I might not. Don't want to invite trouble.

Wouldn't exactly call him a shill for AIPAC...

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=Q05&cycle=2004&recipdetail=S&Mem=Y&sortorder=U

1
Wyden, Ron (D-OR)
$48,000

2
Bennett, Robert F (R-UT)
$40,250

3
Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
$35,500

4
Shelby, Richard C (R-AL)
$34,000

5
Boxer, Barbara (D-CA)
$31,000

6
Inouye, Daniel K (D-HI)
$23,750

7
Murray, Patty (D-WA)
$23,500

8
Specter, Arlen (R-PA)
$23,100

9
Feingold, Russ (D-WI)
$20,000

10
Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
$18,500

11
Schumer, Charles E (D-NY)
$17,500

11
Mikulski, Barbara A (D-MD)
$17,500

13
Brownback, Sam (R-KS)
$16,500

13
Chambliss, Saxby (R-GA)
$16,500

15
Dorgan, Byron L (D-ND)
$14,500

16
Murkowski, Lisa (R-AK)
$13,000

17
Lieberman, Joe (D)
$11,250

18
Reid, Harry (D-NV)
$10,500

19
Coleman, Norm (R-MN)
$8,000

19
Dodd, Chris (D-CT)
$8,000


METHODOLOGY: The numbers on this page are based on contributions from PACs and individuals giving $200 or more. All donations took place during the 2003-2004 election cycle and were released by the Federal Election Commission on Monday, August 11, 2003. Feel free to distribute or cite this material, but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics

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Another broadly slanderous rant from the "everyone's shit stinks but mine" peanut gallery postulant.

So, now anyone who's not a Likkkudnik is an anti-semite? The presumably prescient ability to read the minds and hearts of others in the neurotic land of should-woulda-coulda infesting such posts is nauseating.

Ad hominems ad nauseum. :puke:

Meaning he's not as reliable as bush*sucks.

On edit: as an afterthought, I realize bush*sucks only opens his mouth for two reasons: to lie or to suck dicks (while lying)

Hell, every GOP-er is better than bush. But maybe it's his religion that kind of directs your hatred.
Disclaimer: no fan of Lieberman here - but considering the fact that he is not likely to get nominated, the intensity of hatred as well as the very wrong reasons for it are disturbing to say the least.

But the cyberlynching against Senator Lieberman has been going on for two years unbated. I'm sick of it.

I am voting for Dean, but frankly I am sick of the unfair attacks and the venom spewed toward Lieberman here.

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I would not have a problem with Paul Wellstone, Carl Levin, or Barbara Boxer. Lieberman is just a fanatical fascist. He also describes himself as an "orthodox" Jew. Gee, that will sit well with the Arab world. How will Crown Prince Abdullah, Hosni Mubarak, President-Dictator Musharaf, and other American puppet "moderates" look when they shake his hand at a Washington meeting? These puppets could face backlash from their people, and then will have more enemies to worry about.

And just to clear things up: my mother's Jewish.

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Lieberman is a pathetic traitor to the democratic party. But, perhaps since he has never had a chance to, he hasn't actually done the things Bush has, like wars with large civilian casualties, and human rights violations in Guantanamo Bay. I'm sure he would if he had the chance.


Peace:kick:

Since he has no chance of being nominated and even less chance of winning if he did, we don't have to worry about it. I would trust any of the other candidates with the ball but never Holy Joe. No more religious Zealots in the WH from either party.

Yes your post is pro-Bush, just re-read the title. When ever we compare 2 people and claim we dislike one of the pair more it is a way of promoting the other. Amazing how many DUers will jump on the pro-AWOL-boy bandwagon without seeming to notice if it is done in the name of bashing one of their own.

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I thought exactly the same as you do when I saw this post. I dislike Lieberman for many reasons, but I WON'T VOTE FOR BUSH NO MATTER WHAT!

I am pretty sure Lieberman is not going to be our candidate, so this post is silly.

I am an AntiFascist. a Fascist is a Fascist whether he belongs to the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. You're just buying into the cattle mentality.

Shit, I'll vote for a third-party if LIEberman gets the vote.

I would have never guessed pal.

Don

Instead of taking such a dramatic stance by saying you'd rather have Bush in there?

Bush is a traitor and a war criminal. If you're against facism as you say you are, why would you give him an inch of wiggle room like that? Okay, maybe JL has the potential to continue the wave of facism that's been placed on this country, but * is in a much better position to do that, dontcha think? He brought us here in the first place.

Plus...does the envirnoment and energy policy mean anything to you? Bush and JL are night and day in comparison.

That is a herd I am happy to belong to: MOO.

I have to admit I wonder if you even know what a Fascist is (or are aware of the history of Fascism) in any way other then the pop usage you just exhibited, and which unfortunately is now so in vogue.

Let's summarize. You dislike Jews and you dislike Fascists, and you'd rather see Bush stay in office than see a Jew/Fascist like Lieberman get in?

And this "cattle mentality"?? Have you looked at yourself in the mirror lately?

Moooooooooooooooooooooo

:silly:

Every time someone on this board says they don't like Lieberman, Carlos shows up to say they don't like him simply because he's Jewish. Bah!!

I've said this here before...people are allowed to dislike Lieberman. They are allowed to dislike him because they don't like the way he combs his hair. That may be a stupid reason not to vote for him, but it has nothing to do with his religion and should not be made to seem so.

Sometimes a cigar (excuse the reference) is just a cigar!!

Some months ago, Lieberman was on the News Hour. He was asked a question about his position on national health care. He went into a long harangue about how his answer was to create research facilities to try to find cures for many devastating illnesses. He went on at length about this.

Now, before anyone starts to throw tomatoes at ME, let me say that I concur that there needs to be more money spent on research into finding cures for catastrophic illnesses, but:

THAT WAS NOT RESPONSIVE TO THE QUESTION ABOUT NATIONAL HEALTH CARE! and it convinced me that he is in the pockets of big pharmaceuticals and HMOs among others.

Hey, Joe...access to health care is about being able to go to a doctor if you have an upper respiratory infection and not have to wait until it turns into pneumonia and you end up in the hospital - and you can't pay that bill either. It's about living in fear that you will be injured at home or get into an auto accident and that you would be financially destroyed if they loaded you into an ambulance and took you to a hospital.

Yeah, Joe Lieberman doesn't even live on the same planet I live on. And I get tired of people who think it has to be because of his religion when someone expresses their dislike of him. That's nothing more than an attempt to shut doewn any discussion of the REAL issues.

And to those who bring up how he voted in the past - I don't care. I'm interested in what he's going to do in the future, and it doesn't look too promising.

BTW, antifascist is correct in this: (emphasis added)

"His religion IS an issue if foreign policy is an issue. He has no credibility on Mideastern policy if he's a Jewish fanatic. He's not a secular, free-thinking Jew who have brought progress to the Western world; he's a zealot."

edit> To try to clarify: about voting for Lieberman. The thing that's never discussed is that Lieberman puts us between a rock and a hard place. He knows there's no place for us to go. So why should he even bother speaking to the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

I don't like being manipulated like that.

I'm glad not everyone here is a sheep who thinks like, "He's a member of our party so he must be good."

Think Bush plus foreign policy tensions and more taxes to finance more wars and you'll get Lieberman.

Thank you.

if for nothing else, let us have in the white house a democrat, who will not steer the court further right.

while lieberman would not nominate another william o douglas, at the least he wont nominate another thomas or scalia.

and his views are being rejected by the party base. I don't think we will have Joe and his supporters like Carlos to kick around for very much longer, I don't think they can handle where the Democratic party is headed.

I can be anti-Likkkud without being anti-Israel. I can be pro-Palestinian without being either anti-semitic or anti-Israel. Likewise, I can be anti-Lieberman without being "anti-Israel". (Indeed, in a conflict between wrongs I rarely support either side.)

Regarding BushJr v. Lieberman -- BushJr is a pathological narcissist. He has a deep-seated psychological disorder and is not in any significant way the promulgator of this madministration's protofascist predation. He's enabled and manipulated by a coterie of crony corporatists -- a coterie whom Lieberman freely and consciously supports. Lieberman has rhetorically attacked and factionalized his own political party, demeaning people of principle and conscience -- without the encumbrance of as markedly a psychological/emotional/personality disorder as BushJr.

The primary fallacy in (purportedly) measuring the relative ideologies of Legislators against the agenda items of Republican-controlled Congresses is that (1) the designated votes are tallied without relative weighting and (2) the participation in setting/supporting the agenda itself remains unmeasured. Furthermore, no committee participation is assessed. Much of the agenda is set in committee and in caucus. The inability of the Democratic Party to coalesce behind issues of principle is, in no small part, due to the "anticoagulents" of Miller, Breaux, Nelson, Lieberman and others operating at various levels of sabotage.


On edit: For me, the LiKKKud closely resembles what we'd see if the KKK were a political party with plurality control of a country.

I need my tomatoes for salsa.

have to worry about Lieberman getting the nomination. I don't like him either, especially since he made that under-handed nasty remark about Dean. However, I would hold my nose and vote for him if I HAD to--and this has nothing to do with religion.