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Pentagon: The Problem Is, Iraqis Aren't Suffering ENOUGH

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:54 AM
Original message
Pentagon: The Problem Is, Iraqis Aren't Suffering ENOUGH
And in the "insane troll logic" department:

Here's what the Pentagon is kicking around as a possible solution to the insurgency in Iraq: Death squads.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek

For those who don't remember the 80s, a death squad is a bunch of goons who are paid by the government roam the country assassinating the political opposition. The Newsweek piece above is titled "The Salvador Option" because our support for the Salvadoran government, and its death squads, became notorious during the 1980s--largely because these death squads expanded the definition of "political opposition" to include Catholic priests and nuns who were preaching liberation theology, some of whom were American. Some forms of Christianity, you see, are indistinguishable from communism. That whole helping-the-poor thing, you know.

Puts me in mind of an Elvis Costello song from Armed Forces:

Mother, father, I’m here in the zoo
I can’t come home ’cause I’ve grown up too soon
I got my sentence
I got my command
They said they’d make me major if I met all their demands

I could be a corp’ral into corp’ral punishment
Or the gen’ral manager of a large establishment
They pat some good boys on the back and put some to the rod
But I never thought they’d put me in the

Goon squad
They’ve come to look you over and they’re giving you the eye
Goon squad
They want you to come out to play
You’d better say goodbye...


According to the article, this idea actually didn't originate with Rumsfeld, but rather with the charmers we installed as the head of the Iraqi interim government. Here's the kind of synergy you get when our goons talk to their goons:

Shahwani also said that the U.S. occupation has failed to crack the problem of broad support for the insurgency. The insurgents, he said, "are mostly in the Sunni areas where the population there, almost 200,000, is sympathetic to them." He said most Iraqi people do not actively support the insurgents or provide them with material or logistical help, but at the same time they won’t turn them in. One military source involved in the Pentagon debate agrees that this is the crux of the problem, and he suggests that new offensive operations are needed that would create a fear of aiding the insurgency. "The Sunni population is paying no price for the support it is giving to the terrorists," he said. "From their point of view, it is cost-free. We have to change that equation."

Cost-free?

They're the ones who are getting blown to pieces by most of these car bombs. They're the ones who are getting killed in the crossfire when we go blasting into what we think is an insurgent stronghold. No, folks, supporting the insurgency is never cost-free; go ask people in the occupied territories. From a different point of view, it's clear that whatever passive support these people are getting from the civilian community derives from two fairly simple things:

1) The insurgency, at the moment, is able to operate at will, which means that the average Iraqi is not going to inform on them for fear of getting whacked. We can't protect our own troops from these people; and we clearly have never given a shit about protecting Iraqi lives. They have no reason to believe that we would prevent whatever group they dropped a dime on from killing them and their families. Therefore, the dime is not dropped.

2) In addition to having proved ourselves ineffective when it comes to protecting anything or anyone in Iraq, we have also alienated the general population so completely through our use of indiscriminate and unimaginable violence and our callous disregard for their lives, families, property, and culture that many of them would probably be extremely reluctant to do anything that might be seen as helping us or liable to lead to a more permanent US military presence there--even if that would, in the short term, mean a drop in the amount of random violence they have to cope with.

Does either of these possibilities occur to that "military source"? No. His thinking is that these people are not suffering <i>enough</i> yet, so the solution is to make them suffer <i>more</i>. This is the way it works over there. The solution is always more violence. Even if violence is the problem.

The future head of our justice department thinks that the Geneva convention is quaint, that beating up on detainees is a legitimate strategy for ensuring our national security, and that torture isn't torture until the victim is permanently disabled, dying, or dead. Our current secretary of defense is excited about the prospect of setting up death squads. We just had the second election in which a weak-minded president who's constantly dressing up in military uniforms made it into office despite widespread doubts about the legitimacy of his victory.

Things do change. In the 1980s, we supported the Salvadoran government. In 2005, we ARE the Salvadoran government.

I'm so happy,

The Plaid Adder
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Give it another 6 months and Bush's record in Iraq
will be WORSE THAN SADDAM HUSSEIN'S ENTIRE REIGN!!!
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. does Negroponte know about this?
I don't think he'll stand for this kind of thing...

But seriously, I'm certain we are already doing this kind of thing in Iraq, and that some of the murders we are hearing about are our doing, the details we'll learn about years from now.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. It would not surprise me if this is the new meme.
Did you see this from last week?

----
Too Nice for Our Own Good

Democrats undermine efforts to gather information from captured terrorists.


By HEATHER MAC DONALD
January 6, 2005; Page A16


Senate Democrats plan to turn the confirmation hearings of Alberto Gonzales into a referendum on the war on terror -- specifically, on the Bush administration's decision that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to al Qaeda terrorists. They will argue that the denial of prisoner-of-war status to al Qaeda fighters resulted in the torture of prisoners in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

This "torture narrative" is gospel truth among elite opinion-makers, yet it is false in every detail. It relies on ignorance of the actual interrogation techniques promulgated after 9/11. However spurious, the narrative has had a devastating effect on interrogators' ability to get intelligence from detainees.
<snip>

To succeed in the war on terror, interrogators must be allowed to use carefully controlled stress techniques against unlawful combatants. Stress works, say interrogators. The techniques that the military has used to date come nowhere near torture; the advocates can only be posturing in calling them such. These self-professed guardians of humanitarianism need to come back to earth. Our terrorist enemies have declared themselves enemies of the civilized order. In fighting them, we must hold ourselves to our own high moral standards -- without succumbing to the utopian illusion that we can prevail while immaculately observing every precept of the Sermon on the Mount.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006134

----
P.S.
Democrats undermine efforts to gather information from captured terrorists.
was added after the fact (the 8th?)- was not originally the subtitle of the editorial.
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The White Tree Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Wow - The Sermon on the Mount was a utopian illusion
Someone shoulda told Jesus that. Maybe she thinks heavens a Utopian Illusion as well. So much for the moral majority.

Reminds me of that line from - "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - something about a man being nailed to a cross for saying everybody should be nice to everybody else.

(On Aside - While trying to find a reference to this I just learned that there will be a new movie verson of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy released this May. Just in time for my birthday.)

Don't Panic :P
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I caught this woman (?) on C-span the other day. I think she and
Ann C. must have shared a room in college or live together now. Yep, this is all we need, we'll fix it all up to be sure. No wonder the Iraqi's want Saddam back.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. Inciting civil war
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:13 AM by ze_dscherman
The proposal wants to use Kurds and Shiites to fight the Sunni resistance. Can anyone think of a better way to lead Iraq into a full blown civil war? And yes, that might even be the "solution" to these twisted minds: Let them fight each other instead the occupier.

:mad:
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The White Tree Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. In their culture doesn't that make them honor bound
to avenge each death carried out in this way? I thought I had read something about that somewhere speculating that is why the current insurgency is so strong. Each time we kill an innocent person it creates people who are now honor-bound to avenge that death.

I also remember reading somewhere - might have been here - that this is what some who have influence on the decision making really ultimately want, to keep all these factions at each others throats in order to keep them weak.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Death squads from different ethnic or religious groups
That's sure to quiet those naughty people down, isn't it?
:wtf:
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ChairOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Several good blogs on this.....
Rude Pundit always rocks:

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2005/01/horror-of-history-its-been-while-but.html

And Delong/Atrios are right in taking the Pentagon to be instituting a hate-us-fine-just-fear-us-too policy. Pure Machiavelli. That's America.

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2005-3_archives/000140.html

http://www.markarkleiman.com/archives/terrorism_and_its_control_/2005/01/moral_clarity_dept.php

It seems reasonable to suspect that the Penatgon/bush/gonzales have had this thought percolating for some time. And now that they've got "death squad john" in place, they can *finally* execute plan Take The Cost Outta Their Hides.

Sheesh.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. If you are horrified by the Iraq War please support ...
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Arianrhod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. We always become what we obsess over.
America has obsessed over war for so long that it's now the only thing we understand. :(
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