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Scary teen letters about God's role in the tsunami. What have we wrought?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 04:41 PM
Original message
Scary teen letters about God's role in the tsunami. What have we wrought?
Two letters from teen-agers in our paper are really causing me to think of what we are creating in the new generation. Our central Florida area has many evangelical churches, with Southern Baptists very dominant here. These letters from 16 and 13 year olds just scare me.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050130/NEWS/501300353/1037/EDIT04
SNIP..."Published Sunday, January 30, 2005
God's Role in Tsunami

As a 16-year-old sophomore, I know my mind hasn't completely matured, nor has it learned everything it can. However, I still have thoughts and strong opinions on our everyday lives. The tsunami in Thailand was a horrible incident and left thousands of people dead, injured and homeless.

I send my prayers to the families who have lost loved ones or are experiencing terrible times. However, I do not believe that jumping to conclusions and blaming God for the whole massacre is the way to go.

I believe that Jesus Christ will come back to Earth one day and take those who have lived their life in God's eyes back with him. Priests who are trying to defend God, need to go back and read their Bibles. Of course, you could try and revoke someone's statement by telling one how you feel about God, but not defending him by saying it wasn't his fault. God lets everything happen for a reason...."END SNIP but so much more at the site.

And a response today to this letter from a 13 year old.
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050201/NEWS/502010319/1037/EDIT04
Published Tuesday, February 1, 2005
God's Role in Tsunami

On Saturday Jan 8, there was a column in the Life section called "Praying Through Clinched Teeth" I would like to share my opinion on that column. The author said in one section of his column: "It was interesting to me that the Christian ministers uniformly denied that God was somehow responsible. It's as if they felt compelled to defend God the charge of murder."

God is everywhere. He was there protecting people when on Sept. 11, 2001, two airplanes hit the World Trade Center. It was said that there were 50,000 people who worked in the World Trade Center, but, miraculously, not all of those people were at work that day.

Do you know why? It's because God, himself, did something to prevent them from being at work, and they are alive today because of it. Since, in this argument, the author is going to talk about God and say that God is the cause of all these natural disasters, then, well, I have news for him. If you are going to believe that God exists and talk about God, then you have to believe what the Bible says......" END SNIP much more at the link.

I guess I should be glad young people are trying to make sense of it all, but their views are so narrow, so very narrow.

Disclaimer: I was Southern Baptist until the Iraq War and their support for it. Not making fun of religion...just very concerned about our young minds.
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. scary!
im not sure i want to read the rest of the letters
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whoever turned these kids' brains to shit deserves a slap upside the head.
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spunky Donating Member (469 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder why He didn't save the other
nearly 3,000 people in the WTC that day?
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Briarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Duh
they were obviously sinners!
</fundy 'logic'>

ugh, these are awful. We can only hope these kids come around one day.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. tey are kids and it is all they know
it is what they have been very carefully taught
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Why he didn't save the rest?
They were Jews, silly!
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aePrime Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Odd
It was said that there were 50,000 people who worked in the World Trade Center, but, miraculously, not all of those people were at work that day.

I would find it more miraculous if all 50,000 people were at work that day, or any other day.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. I heard the sunday preacher on the UPN broadcast channel
preach that the WTC attacks were God's punishments for abortion and all that gay stuff. This teen isn't alone.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are we becoming like Iraq? (Sunnis vs Shias?)
Does it strike anybody that we are becoming a northern-Christian vs southern-Christian society? Make no mistake, I mean no disrespect for southern DUers or Christian DUers but this kind of mindset seems to be very red vs blue....will our country split over two different 'sects' of Christianity?
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. what would be REALLY funny-
Edited on Tue Feb-01-05 05:13 PM by LiberallyInclined
is if the heads of the people who have to try to defend the existence of god, really could explode from trying to work out the contradictions.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Long. Religion is weaponized to create authoritarianism Consider schools.
(I just wrote this in response to something I read at DU from a former teacher who wrote 'What's the Matter With Kids Today.' I was horrified by what I read and had to respond. The key words related to mind control here are 'Biderman's Chart of Coercions' and 'Rockefeller's General Education Board.' The same psychology is at play in the Follow-the-Leader weaponization of religion.)
-------------------------------

From 'What's the Matter With Kids Today' by Tina Blue-

"We are not born socialized or civilized. Despite the sentimental nonsense we like to spout about how innocent and adorable babies are, the fact is that babies and small children are adorable to serve their own purposes, not ours: to get us to do what they want, and to prevent us from turning on them when their insatiable demands and impulsive, outrageous behavior start to push us over the edge."

"It takes an enormous amount of time, energy, and attention to socialize an infant, to make him fit for human company."

Sentimentality of innocence?!! Insatiable demands!?

>>>>!!??Fit for human company??!!<<<

This characterization of a human child's needs as PSYCHOPATHIC indicates the author's own besieged mentality at the same time Tina Blue correctly describes an entire culture of isolation from community that sabotages parent and child alike.

While the problem of un-socialized children acting out their rage and pain is common to her essays (and I agree that's true), the root of their disruptive angst is wrongly claimed to be a sentimental permissive 'love' matches James Dobson's authoritarian views promoted by fascists-have the courage to beat them until they know "who's boss." There is so much more to socializing happy healthy humans.

Yes, the stress of the poverty this fascistic culture demands is mentioned in Tina Blue's essays. But the idea that children (and citizens) are vicious monsters who must be policed into submission is
EXACTLY how FASCISM BEGINS IN THE HOME. Terrorism is intentionally made a part of our psychological environment to justify the police-state and embed an emotional 'early-scorning system' in people to divide and conquer the masses lest they cooperate peacefully.

I can't stress this enough!>>>>>CONSIDER THIS>>>>>>

Amnesty International codified the 8 common methods used on prisoners to break their will and control their minds.

It is called 'Biderman's Chart of Coercions.'
http://www.actabuse.com/chartofcoercion.html

STUDY THIS CAREFULLY BECAUSE IT SHOWS WHAT EVERY CHILD GOES THROUGH TO BE SOCIALIZED BY LARGER ADULTS AND AUTHORITY FIGURES.
Domestic abuse counselors now refer to it because of its applicability to abusive relationships where usually women are terrorized. I suggest it is the core of the Republican Party Platform.

1) Isolation
2) Monopolization of Perception
3) Induced Debility and Exhaustion
4) Threats
5) Occasional Indulgences
6) Demonstrating 'Omnipotence'
7) Enforcing Trivial Demands
8) Degradation

HUMAN CHILDREN ALL COGNITIVELY EXPERIENCE TORTURE IN THE SOCIALIZATION PROCESS WHILE GROWING UP. Some get a gentler version than others.We all have unique brain chemical dispositions and experiences which determine how well we endure and recover from the torturing socialization of childhood.WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF ABU GHRAIB.

These coercions are institutionalized AS A WAY OF LIFE for the entire population in fascist America's isolated and fearful culture that was beautifully exposed by Michael Moore in his movie 'Bowling For Columbine.'

Blame the left over brutality of 'might-makes-right' animal survival mechanism that our species has been outgrowing while only barely beginning to institutionalize a kinder gentler life with democracy and nurturing of the weak. This brutality is intentionally being kept in place by the need for fearfulness and bullying which CIA-influenced TV induces in the service of the Military Industrial Fascist Complex and its economic policies of eugenics and permanent war.

Children are at the front lines as a source for obtaining worker drones and cannon fodder. Public education was designed to serve the needs of society’s financial elite who require an inhumane societal construct for their ends. It is working just as designed.

Whoever isn’t helping ‘their team’ compete with ‘the opposing team’ is starved, imprisoned, or killed, "with us or against us."

http://www.sntp.net/education/gatto.htm
>snip<
This is taken from John Taylor Gatto's book, Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling.

This speech was given by the author on 31 January 1990 in accepting an award from the New York State Senate naming him New York CityTeacher of the Year.

THE PSYCHOPATHIC SCHOOL

"1 don't think we'll get rid of schools any time soon, certainly not in my lifetime, but if we're going to change what's rapidly becoming a disaster of ignorance, we need to realize that the school institution "schools" very well, though it does not "educate" that's inherent in the design of the thing. It's not the fault of bad teachers or too little money spent. It's just impossible for education and schooling ever to be the same thing.

Schools were designed by Horace Mann and by Sears and Harper of the University of Chicago and by Thorndyke of Columbia Teachers College and by some other men to be instruments of the scientific management of a mass population. Schools are intended to produce, through the application of formulas, formulaic human beings whose behavior can be predicted and controlled."

>snip<

Gatto explained that The Behavioral Science Teacher Education Project "identified the future as one 'in which a small elite' will control all important matters, one where participatory democracy will largely disappear. Children are made to see, through school experiences, that their classmates are so cruel and irresponsible, so inadequate to the task of self-discipline, and so ignorant they need to be controlled and regulated for society's good. Under such a logical regime, school terror can only be regarded as good advertising. It is sobering to think of mass schooling as a vast demonstration project of human inadequacy, but that is at least one of its functions."

>snip<

(As a bit of background, the industrial titans of the 1890's began to think that not only could the production line be engineered, but people's lives could be engineered as well, in order to work like homogeneous robots with the machines. People like Rockefeller and Carnegie gave huge sums to prominent academics to see if this could be realized through the educational system. They found that to a considerable extent it could, and it is still being done today as evidenced in the Congressional Record during the Clinton administration. This is the story that John Gatto has to tell.)

Please read this speech by Gatto where he quotes the eugenics-embracing robber barons who designed schooling to be mind control for their economic benefit:
http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm
(A Short Angry History of American Forced Schooling)
>snip<

"Between 1906 and 1920, a handful of world famous industrialists and financiers, together with their private foundations, handpicked University administrators and house politicians, and spent more attention and more money toward forced schooling than the national government did. Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller alone spent more money than the government did between 1900 and 1920. In this fashion, the system of modern schooling was constructed outside the public eye and outside the public's representatives.

Now I want you to listen to a direct quote, I have not altered a word of this, it's certainly traceable through your local librarians. From the very first report issued by John D. Rockefeller's General Education Board -- this is their first mission statement:

"In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into men of learning or philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters, great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, (he's really covering the whole gamut of employment isn't he?) statesmen, politicians, creatures of whom we have ample supply (whoever the pronoun we is meant to stand for there). The task issimple. We will organize children and teach them in an perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."

>snip<

Yikes. Long before EMG technologies could skip the senses on the way to the brain, here is the root of fascism in America and why parents and schools are producing a New American Brownshirt movement amplified by Fox News.

Because schools DO WORK!!

Once parenting, schools, and the economic constructs of society stop resembling Abu Ghraib, we will see adults who aren't acting out their rebellion from their torturers. And teachers will have classrooms that resemble peace rallies more than prison riots.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yep that's the mentality we're fighting against
Edited on Tue Feb-01-05 05:17 PM by superconnected
how do people arrive at Jesus wanting carnage?

Has this 16yo ever even opened a bible before? What, was it stuck in the old testament leviticus? Some peoples' interpretations are flat out satanic.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's a naive view of religion
I've said it before: I think a lot of young Christians and new Christians find the idea of giving control to God hard to fathom. It's the real mystery of the faith and it's too easy to give a snap interpretation to.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. yikes, what if that WAS the rapture. Oops.
um fundie teens, you're, um, still here.

don't pay this too much attention...I used to be one of these idiots.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. From the SBC website, giving out bibles and food to victims.
I commend them for raising the 40 million. I truly do. I hope they do not mix too much evangelizing with their mission of mercy. These people are mostly Buddhists.

SNIP from the article:
http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/3767.article

"About 77 percent of Sri Lanka’s nearly 20 million population are Buddhists; fewer than 1 percent of Sri Lankans are evangelical Christian believers, Hosmer said. About 8.5 percent are Muslims, and about 8 percent are Hindus. Southern Baptists are trying to help all of those who are in need, said David Garrison, leader for the IMB’s South Asia region...."

I hope I am reading their priorities wrong, about what the dollars contribute to...maybe I am. Food and replacing housing are 5th and 6th in line, bibles are 3rd in line.

The following are examples of how gifts to the Asia Earthquake Disaster Relief fund and the Southern Baptist World Hunger Fund can help tsunami survivors in Sri Lanka:
• $3.25 replaces a school uniform for students in Grades 1-3.
• $3.50 replaces a school uniform for students in Grades 4-9.
• $3.80 buys a Bible in the Sinhala or Tamil language.
• $5.75 replaces a school uniform for students in Grades 10-13.
• $10 provides a family with a dry food packet of rice, sugar, lentils, salt, Soya meat, sprats (tiny dried fish), canned salmon, tea, soap and toothpaste -- enough food to last five days.
• $20 provides a family with a kitchen set that includes six plates, cups, a pitcher, tea strainer, larger strainer, tea kettle, mixing spoon, coconut scraper, metal cooking pot and two saucepans.
• $1,500 builds the average basic house for a family.

* Name changed for security reasons. “Goldie Frances” is a writer serving with the IMB in the South Asia region.

Again I comment them for their contributions, but I do not want them preaching there. I have seen what has happened here in our area. People lose their ability to think rationally, and they simply listen to preachers expound on their themes.



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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. Turn off the goddamn TV and go outside, kids
That thing is called the idiot box for a reason.
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Squall Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. I've been through it.
I happen to be a former Unitarian (now an atheist), but, to be blunt, it seems to me that invoking God and saying "God lets everything happen for a reason" is but a method of coping with what couldn't be easily understood or absorbed, and the tsunami disaster was one of those events that really shocks people...
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