Terrible outing by Kerry tonight

All around pretty much. He looked wafflish and bland during the debate--and seemed to be unable to adequately explain his waffling votes (At least LIEberman stands behind what he does). Then, to end the evening, we get Kerry unknowingly on mic pouting about Dean. I think the Iraq vote will ultimately be what undoes Kerry. Dean, on the otherhand, looked good tonight--and did well at keeping his cool during all the silly Lieberman attacks.

He took a hard hit from Sharpton (approving an entrance without an exit is a miserable failure) and then looked weak defending his own war vote.

He had a chance to convince me that he's reconsidered the vote, but he insisted on repeating that he was "convinced" it was the right vote.

They all did well under trying moments with the stupid disruptions. They made me proud.....well, ok, not Lieberman.

...I think every one of them had moments in which they shined. Heck, EVEN Lieberman...ok, well, maybe not Lieberman.

OK. They ALL won.

'cept Lieberman.

How's that?


We're not making unfair slams on Kerry. I like Kerry, and have long respected him. But I don't think he helped himself tonight. It's a topic worthy of discussion.

LaRouche's supporters are in as much need of psychological intervention as LaRouche.

Thorazine anyone?

(I obviously haven't met all of them) in Boston have been WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out there, and those assholes last night did nothing but win more hatred from me for LaRouche and his band of fascists. Get your own damn debate assholes.

with the possible exception of Al Sharpton . . . far lower quality than the first debate . . .

And I'll tell you why I think that...most Americans are NOT leftists. They don't want a President who would never go to war. They really want the President and the country to be strong.

I'm not saying that Dean wouldn't mobilize the troops. Of course he would, if we needed to. But for anybody BUT Dean, being the anti-war candidate would be a ticket to nowhere. Dean can overcome it, because I believe he's a practical man, and knew he had to run to the left to win the nomination. But it will be a hurdle he WILL have to clear with the public IF he wins the nomination.

Kerry, Clark, Gephardt, even Holy Joe are seen as willing to do whatever it takes to DEFEND the people. If Bush misled them, they believed that no President would ever lie so much to go to war.

The war vote actually makes the average American feel safe. It won't hurt Kerry to have voted for the war. Best of intentions.

What I don't forgive them for is being too concerned with their own careers and pretty boy images to investigate and do their jobs. This whole debacle is a FUCKING wake-up call for the average American, and our "leaders" need to get off the corporate gravy train and movie star culture and DO their DAMN jobs.

This unelected twit of a president we have couldn't have even been elected governor of Texas if the average American cared about something more than cheezy poofs and who's gonna take Little Johnny to soccer practice.

Get off your fat, lazy, uninformed asses, America. Very few people are taking part in democracy today, and they're getting EXACTLY the kind of government they deserve for abdicating their responsibilities of civic duty and citizenship.

good perspective on each candidate too.

...but the general population doesn't vote in the primaries as much as the hardcore members of the party do.

If you want to get to the election where the Iraq vote means less, you first must get past the election where it DOES mean something.

Kerry had a chance to denounce the war. He didn't take it, because to do so would appear hypocritical. So he defended his vote. Weakly. It was the worst possible answer.

And at this point, he's trying to appeal to the Democratic core, not middle-America.

election? You guys are advocating political suicide. How would you respond if Dean is the nominee and begins to waffle on Iraq during the general election?

That makes Kerry and the other's look even more foolish that they voted for it. Also, they have to get past the dems before they can get to the general. That Iraq vote seems to be taking a toll on the pro-war candidates. Though, it doesn't seem to be hurting Gephardt as much as Kerry and Lieberman.

Dean's anti-Iraq-war position was based upon sound reasoning, just like Al Gore's, and that is why Dean's position will HELP him in the general election.

including saying he'd vote no on $87B Bush/PNAC/Halliburton appropriation request. Not as forthright as my man DK, but better than all the others who waffled and hemmed and hawed.

I'd give him a C.

I just re-watched his answer on Tivo. He did not say he'd vote no on the request. He said he MIGHT vote no if the administration doesn't convince him sufficiently on the drive for international support.

He had a chance to flat out say No. His first response was Yes.

Go figure.

relative to the last debate:

Dean - worse (and he was bad last time)
Gephardt - worse, following Kucinich hurt a lot
Kucinich - better and he was good last time
Kerry - better but no stellar
Lieberman - about the same but he debated well last time
Graham - worse but he did great last time, not good questions for him
Braun - about the same and she was not good last time
Edwards - better, not quite what he's capable of but better

and then theres:
Sharpton - the reverend knows how to work a room and I'm glad he's making the case for blacks and the party alike that the idea of rubber stamp support is not acceptable for either side. Blacks have not benefited proportionate to their commitment to the party, not even close. Its embarrasing that Bush places blacks the two most importent cabinet positions there are. I don't care if you think they are "oreos" or aunt and uncle Toms or even if you think Bush only did it for effect, they are black and they got the jobs. I think that latinos are even more critical given their rapidly expanding numbers and we're behind with that community.

Those damn LaRousche people are a good rationale for removal of all gun control. If a few audience members pull weapons they shut up pretty fast and probably don't disrupt but once. (OK over the top but how disrepsecful can you get ?)

Gore had the same problem.

to attempt to liken Kerry to Gore--and totally without merit. Kerry speaks eloquently, forcefully, and in complete sentences. He knows who he is.

Gore, unfortunately, was totally inauthentic before the camera, and your guy Lieberman, speaks as if he is constipated and in pain.

You asked for it.

is LaRouche's running mate??? Is that true? Whoa.

There was something odd about the entire night, and I don't doubt that FOX intended it to be like that.

Timmy Russert had Bennett on a few weeks ago to rehabilitate him for his re-entry into the punditocracy. Shameless and disgusting!

I won't read a word you have to say simply because of you advertising for that nutball.

the guy is a world-class idiot, and his supporters do nothing but further that perception at every chance they get.

And especially on this debate - where I suspect Fux-LaRouche collusion.

I find your witchcraft star avatar apalling.

with all the crosses and celtic crosses, it is a refreshing sign of diversity:)

and I haven't read a lot of posts from you before. After last night's performance by the LaRouche supporters, I would imagine that many others (I know that I am) here are EXTREMELY sickened with LaRouche's followers (not to say anything about the man himself, that's another thread). Just didn't think that anyone would joke about it, I've never seen it before. My sincere apologies :eyes:

Hopefully I never read another one of yours again. Ta ta.

I wasn't saying anything about your post count. Rather, I was stating that I hadn't read any of your posts, so I couldn't really make a judgment on your character, and instead would rely on your posts here, and more directly, your avatar. You really are a touchy one eh?

yep

Is that what you call responses to bigotry? So that's what centrist means these days, huh?

At the most he seemed a bit off (I liked that he smiled when a disruptor popped in instead of shaking his head like JL)he also was able to get back on topic pretty quickly. Most of our candidates will have off nights. Dean had an off night at the last debate.

I also really liked that both Howard and Dennis seemed to make it a point to state that there are no connections between 911 and Saddam. I would like to see the other candidates make that statement more to pound into the American populace who thinks there is a tie between the two.

"I also really liked that both Howard and Dennis seemed to make it a point to state that there are no connections between 911 and Saddam. I would like to see the other candidates make that statement more to pound into the American populace who thinks there is a tie between the two.'

and I noticed it too. It would be great if the candidates would keep pounding away at this lie, maybe then people would stop believing it:) hey, it's a start.