Repuke Dean strategy is pretend they are "delighted" Dean is DNC chair

The more DELIGHTED they say they are the more SCARED SHITLESS they are

for election reform. Was first thing on Dean's agenda !

Shhhhh. The American people might wake up.

He will say when things are wrong. Disagreeing with bushco is what we have needed all along. This centrist crap got us where we are now. I say go WAY left.

most voters couldn't give a rats ass who the chair of either party is. The only thing that matter is that whoever the chair is does a good job at building the party.

the Chairman of either party matters little to the average voter (hell, the new RNC chair is gay), but Dean will still have a sizable presence on the Sunday Morning Talk Shows, and all media outlets, and that's still pretty good. :)

because he will build the party. He'll be a great chair. The negatives that the press in pushing won't amount to anything.

Considering how Dean is I don't think it'll last too long. ;)

make any sense.

The Repukes have won time after time. They aren't scared of us. They laugh at meaningless bluster and braggadocio. Dean didn't get the Democratic nomination because even our extreme left wing knew he couldn't win and wanted someone electable.

Telling ourselves we're frightening the Repukes is not advancing the cause. They are beating our butts every election. Clinton was the only Democratic president recently. Did he run as an extremist? NO. Fortunately Dean can't do as much damage as party Chairman as he could have as a candidate. And he does have quite a number of good qualities that will be useful in that position, so overall I think he is a good choice. But scared? The Republicans? don't kid yourself. They really are delighted. Let's hope they're wrong.

Kerry WAS SO much better as a Pres. candidate...wasn't he?

Our party will continue to be in the shitter until we OFFER A STRONG POSITION on issues and not suck-up to closet homophobes, racists, fundie-fascists, and other Repuke-like lemmings.

JB

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This is EXACTLY WHY THE REPUKES WIN.

Look in the mirror, Dean naysayer.

JB

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A quick Google shows this person to have some pretty progressive views on guns and the war.
However, I know I'm not a Freeper and I agree that we would not have won with Dean (election fixing or not). I like him in the role of DNC chair, but I just never was convinced he would win a national election.

I didn't think Kerry was electable at all. But you didn't read what I said, now did you? I said that the Republicans are laughing their asses off at us, and are not afraid. All demontrably true.

They think they have a far left wing patsy to go up against.

Wait until Dean hits them on their fiscal responsiblity and general hypocrisy.

Every time they hit Dean for being a "leftist" on the war, he can remind them of how Bush failed to listen to warnings about al Qaeda before 9/11, how Bush lied us into the war, how Bush's Iraq policy failed and left us at a greater risk of further harm from terrorism.

I believe most are honest when they say they are delighted now. I hope they will soon regret this.

why else would they be attacking him? Do we attack them when they get a new chair?

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Repukes are SHITTING THEIR PANTS. The fact of the matter...they were shitting their pants about Dean during the Democratic Primaries, but New Hampshire & Iowan Dems didn't pick up on the their REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY tactics.

JB

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Twenty One Months If Your Hypothesis Is True....


I love when a theory is put to the cold hard test of reality....

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Being anti-Dean and pro Democratic party are not mutually exclusive just like being anti-Clinton and pro-Democratic party are not mutually exclusive either...


We will know in a scant twenty one months whether Dean is a prophet or a poseur....

The problem with Dems is this...we are TOO FUCKING INDECISIVE and PUBLIC ABOUT OUR DIFFERENCES. I'm sure that there are more than a few Repukes unhappy with Shrub, but you don't see them attacking him or his cabinet in public. The Repukes project a UNIFIED FRONT, which emparts a feeling of strength and that they are forceful winners. Dems, on the other hand, do like this thread and DISCUSS AND WRING HANDS over differences in public, which makes us look like pussies and indecisive losers.

Well, I for one am SICK OF BEING PORTRAYED AS A LOSER. I'm VERY LIBERAL AND DAMN PROUD OF IT. Dean isn't gOD or perfect by any means, but I'm NOT going to give the Repukes any ammo by dissenting against my own Party on a day that should be a happy one for us.

JB

The Leninist discipline employed by the Republicans is good for the party but horrible for the nation...


As far as beating them I am flummoxed...

Some times I ignore all my learning and reading and resign myself to the notion that more folks like their dog food than ours....

Who wants to purchase a product from a vacillating salesperson? The same goes for politics...

JB

pro- or anti- Dean, or anybody else. It's about opening our eyes and taking a look at the real world. The Repukes are not scared of Dean. Maybe they should be, but the evidence is lacking.

Thinking that putting Dean in as DNC chair is going to solve our problems just keeps us from honestly looking at them and making the necessary adjustments. Avoiding an honest look at our problems is something the Dems have been very good at for a very long time. That just plain sucks.

Failing to point out that homophobia, closet racism, anti-Jesus, and fascist fundamentalism are WRONG AND UNAMERICAN has been Dems' problem.

JB

are coming from. I haven't suggested that at all. Learn to read only what is written, and skip that 'between the lines' stuff. You don't have the talent for it.

That's what I meant. This notion that Dems have to "move to the middle" and moderate our positions in order to capture voters.

JB

place. But I admire you. Yo'd rather keep your prinicples than elect a president. One of the country's founders said something like that. "I'd rather be right than President". An admirable sentiment.

Goldwater is still the unrivaled largest popular vote loser in the twentieth century...

What have we won lately?

It's not like the Republicans are kicking our ass but they have a slight edge in the allegiance of voters which in our system amounts to control over all three branches of government...

Just sayin'.

Are Essentially Spot On...


That's Poli Sci 101 stuff...


If a person doubts it they can take Poli Sci 101 at their community college and if they are working they can take it at night...

But the poster was a bit on the vituperative side and you know a low count poster is going to get filleted for that...

Folks who *say* they are conservative outnumber progressives. But about half of those folks who *say* they are conservative are progressive on the issues.

When they say they are conservative, many times they mean quiet, reserved or old fashoned. That is much much different than agreeing with the GOP leadership.

Conservative is an amorphous term as is liberal and moderate....


Edmund Burke is the father of conservatism but I would suspect many folks who claim that mantle don't have a clue who Burke was or what e espoused....

That being said it is helpful to have some kind of nomenclature...

And the surveys are reenforced by voter preferences...

I don't have the link but if you look you will discover most folks who called themselves liberal voted for Kerry and most folks who called themselves conservative voted for Bush* and moderates predictably split their votes so these terms do serve some purpose...

Remember that Bush has convinced *alot* of people he supports the opposite side of alot of issues than he really is. These folks who think this are voting for Bush because they believe he supports these positions that he actually opposes, while Democrats actually support them on these issue.

That's why Bush sounds like a very very vague and unspecific Democrat. It's also why big media avoids talking about policy on TV as much as they can. It's also why the DLC strategy of actually campaigning on Republican pro-big buisness policy doesn't work.

Liberals will vote for their guy- the Democrat....And conservatives will vote for their guy-the Republican....And moderates will vote for the guy who presents himself as a moderate...


Of course there are exceptions...


Our challenge is to hold our base and capture enough moderates to offset the conservative advantage...

I know what it means to be a liberal...

Of course there are exceptions but most folks can tell you why they are one or the other...

That's why I put Bobby Kennedy on my avatar and not Bob Barr....


Free Republic and Democratic Underground are two extreme examples but I don't think any of the posters would have any trouble telling you what they are....

Rush Limbaugh is *not* conservative. Rush Limbaugh is a neo-conservative, Republican propagandist, sycophant and the embodyment of Republican policy.

I think the average conservative would tell you that they are anti-choice and anti gay rights... I am not suggesting they want to shoot gay folks but they would prefer that they kept their sexuality quiet...


I think the average liberal would tell you they are pro choice and pro gay rights...

They are informed in that they know what they are for or against but imho they are unenlightened in making those choices they do....


I think you can do that exercise on a host of issues...

As I said before. Most folks support progressives on the issues, but associate progressives with all the propaganda that Republicans have smeared us with. Then Republican politicians (Bush, most specifically) co-opt progressive rhetoric while pushing for the exact opposite.

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vote conservative. 52%-48%. Telling yourself you haven't got a serious wasting disease will not make the cancer go away. Telling yourself you are the majority when you're not, won't help improve matters.

I hope it doesn't get mean spirited...


Every time I bring up the fact that more folks identify as conservative I am told that's because they don't know they really aren't conservative...

If we are aware enough to know we are liberals why aren't conservatives aware enough to know they are conservatives..


I think on the great questions of the day we can predict with an admirable degree of specificity where most liberals and conservatives fall...

Another part of the reason we keep losing is that we think Repukes are stupid & uninformed. some of them are; so are a lot of Democrats. But they have some heavyweight thinkers at the top; we used to. Most of ours are light-heavyweights at best. But the lightest weight thinkers among us are the ones who condescend to the opponent and the middle. People will do things for spite that they might not have done if they had not been insulted. Like vote Repuke. Others won't. But most of them know what they stand for, even if they cannot tell you at length why.

"light-weight thinkers" who "condescend" others, thereby creating a reaction in folks where they "do things for spite that they might not have done if they had not been insulted".

You might want to reread your own advice and then take your own advice when speaking about "us" Democrats.

with "family". But thanks for your advice. I'll certainly consider it.:-)

Remember that Bush has convinced *alot* of people he supports the opposite side of alot of issues than he really is. These folks who think this are voting for Bush because they believe he supports these positions that he actually opposes, while Democrats actually support them on these issue.

That's why Bush sounds like a very very vague and unspecific Democrat. It's also why big media avoids talking about policy on TV as much as they can. It's also why the DLC strategy of actually campaigning on Republican pro-big buisness policy doesn't work.

I wouldn't use it if I were you

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Essentially Correct...


There are more conservatives than liberals in the electorate but he or she omits the fact that moderates are a plurality of the electorate and essentially hold the balance of power...

The reason Bush* won is because he got just about every conservative vote and lost the moderate vote by a small amount...

I wish I bookmarked the survey but the numbers were thus based on my memory:

conservatives 35%

liberals 20%

moderates 40%

... wittingly or unwittingly... why not let the OP answer for him- or herself?

You've made your point elsewhere in the thread. If your only intent at this point is to rain on the Dean parade over and over again... well, save it. Enough already.

The OP brought up some interesting points though I do question his patronizing attitude but as I can see by some of these posts he's not unique in that respect...

If George Bush said it was raining I would look outside first and if it was raining I would take my umbrella...



I said the OP was vituperative and that will get a low poster counter filleted ......


That being said if we don't win moderate votes we lose...


It' not a question of ideology but of math.....


I also said that all of our pet theories have to be submitted to the harsh test of reality...

I really don't know how one can infer from that I am raining on anybody's parade....

Peace

Brian

1) In polls of 2004 voters, 21% identified themselves as liberal, 45% as moderate, and 34% as conservative.

2) Howard Dean was a moderate Governor.

3) For proof of how scared the Republicans really are in regard to Dean getting the DNC spot, see my post from earlier today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1590926

Oooohhhh, don't you hate it when facts prove you wrong??

Algebra is not my forte but if you assume all the liberals vote Democratic and all the Republicans vote conservative what percentage of the moderate vote does a Democrat need to win...


Moderates are the king makers in American politics...

I posted a more detailed summary in GDP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1590926

Basically, a conservative columnist forgot to follow the GOP "talking points" on Dean and instead wrote that Dean could actually help the Democrats win by energizing the base and throwing out the "Area Code 202" Democratic insiders. Overnight, his article magically disappeared from the compendium of conservative-oriented articles published on "RealClearPolitics", a conservative Website.

They are afraid of Dean........

Rove won the 2004 election by ramping up his fundie fascist base in an underground grassroots movement. Dean's grassroots movement was the ONLY threat to Rove's strategy by providing a counter-point of sheer numbers.

Why the FUCK else would Rove take the time to show up at a Dean rally during the Primary and make sure that it was public enough to be written about?

The point is...many DEMS during the Primary were HAD by Rove.

JB

Its nice to agree on something

truly likes Dean. I thought he was joking, then he told me he likes him because he really senses sincerity and fight in him.

Who knows?

But yeah, I think most of them are PISSING their pants. My father in law isn't as emotionally invested in the cult of being a repuke as most people are.