Didja ever notice time: DOCTOR Rice vs Howard Dean

Bay Buchanan on Crossfire just DOCTORED up Condolleezzaa about 15 times in reference to her being a possible 2008 candidate... but did you ever notice that while the right wing *insists* that you call her a Doctor to show proper respect for all her accomplishments, you NEVER hear a right wing talking head call Howard "Dr. Dean".

:hi:

position as sec of state, while dean is an MD. I see what you're saying though

it is MUCH more common to use "Doctor" for an MD than for a PhD.

My ex and my father both have PhDs, but no one ever refer to them as "Dr Neefus" or "Dr Muoio." And it's considered bad form if you go out of your way to call yourself "Doctor."

I have no problems calling her Dr. if that's what she wants but Dr. Dean worked a lot of years for the M.D. as well!

when Ph.D.'s insist on being called "doctor." i always referred to college professors as Professor So and So. calling them doctor was something people in jr. college did.

i like the ones who use stuff like: Dr. John Doe Ph.D. i think those are honorary doctorate people and clergy who take it way too seriously though.

there was a certain college president i worked for who insisted he be referred to as Dr. XXXXXXXX.

when I see those "Dr. John Doe Ph.D." folks I am reminded of the Scarecrow Solution from the Wizard of Oz. How do stupid people who know they are stupid compensate? "Well, scarecrow, we can't give you a brain, but we can give you a diploma."

--IMM

on letterheads and paychecks.

is that some of them make a much bigger deal out of their degree than men do, often insisting on being called "Doctor", adding the "PhD" at the end of their names even on casual correspondence etc. Not all do this, of course, but seemingly more than men. I have spent 20+ years in an academic research environment and have seen this over and over.

A little off to the side of the Rice-Dean comparison, but there you are.

but I do feel like I hear "Dr. Frist" on a regular basis...

How is that applicable now?

He can still go by Gov, too, you can't sweat him.

:D

I would call that a little revoice discrimination***

:)

When Michael Rectenwald, Ph.d, (who is a professor at a top university) is introduced on Scarborough Country, they *never* introduce him as Doctor (or Professor) Rectenwald. ***But*** during the SAME SHOW, I heard the host introduce (and refer to) torture advocate Alan Dershowitz as Professor Dershowitz.

Hey, MSNBC: the *Leftist* (Michael Rectenwald) is a *professor,* too!!!

(Michael is the founder and chair of Citizens For Legitimate Government.)

Lori R. Price
Gen. Mgr., Citizens for Legitimate Government
http://www.legitgov.org/

Receive the (free) CLG Newsletter every day!
http://www.legitgov.org/#subscribe_clg

are keen on a very haughty officiousness.

i like it when they insist on calling dumbya "commander and chief."

Why not refer to Bush as Lieutenant Bush since that was his rank when he almost served in the military?

It serves him well as Lieutenant always brings up the concept of a sidekick (sidekick to whome? Cheney's? Rove's? Daddy's?)

I've been avoiding Corporate Media, even CNN as much as possible lately.

Question: Have they put anyone with spunk and wit to counter this broad (Bay Buchanan) during the day skits segments?
Or are we *forever* stuck with Rove's buddy, Donna Brazille?

I don't even watch CNN.

Well, I wouldn't say 'watch'...when I get home I do a quick scan of channels 40, 41, and 42 which on my cable are MSNBC, FOX and CNN to see what color threat level I am on today and whether to break out the duct tape and plastic sheeting.

If I watch even a second of any of that shit, I want to tear their fucking heads off instantly and have to spend the next few hours calming down.

I had to give up MSM for my own health. Seriously it would shoot my blood pressure through the roof.

a doctor. Paging Dr. Rice, paging Dr. Rice! Sorry, she can lie, but she can't save your life, Bay.

...a welcome change from my referring to the current Reichwing whackjob in office as 'Idiot Usurper' or 'Dictator Bush.'

Lori R. Price
Gen. Mgr., Citizens for Legitimate Government
http://www.legitgov.org/

Receive the (free) CLG Newsletter every day!
http://www.legitgov.org/#subscribe_clg

And I know plenty of PhD's who would never insist on being called "Doctor", unless they were teaching, in which case their STUDENTS would address them as "Dr. So-and-So."

I have long been irritated by the number of pompous idiots who insist on parading their doctorates. They need to get over it. I have a J.D. after my name, but I would not want people to call me "doctor"--I mean, people might start asking me to prescribe for them, for God's sake!

OTOH, I have always known MD's to be addressed as "Doctor" instead of Mister or Ms or Mrs. To me, the real, core, meaning of the word is "guy or gal who treats sick people". IMO, other uses of the term, including that of "Juris Doctor", were secondary and are only for when a person is directly acting in their professional capacity.

I know that getting a PhD is difficult, and is an accomplishment to be proud of. But you are so right about the way they "over-Doctor" certain people, Rice included. Blech!

And I have worked with plenty of them, including some Nobel Laureates. They go by "Professor". When I received my Juris Doctorate, some elderly European friends introduced me as "Doctor" at a party and I corrected them at once. They did explain to me that in Europe, lawyers are referred to with the "doctor" label.

As to the difficulty of getting a Ph.D., my older brother, who got a Ph.D. from Purdue in bioelectrical engineering, said that anyone with enough time and money could get a Ph.D. and I agree. I finished the coursework for a Ph.D. in sociology (what is called ABD - all but dissertation), but switched to law school. I knew people writing dissertations on the symbolism of fairy tales!

What galls me the most is someone with a Ph.D in something like early childhood education , or touch-feely counseling, pontificating on every subject under the sun because they got that degree - and of course these are the ones who ALWAYS refer to themselves as "doctor".

With a Ph.D. in Education. And insisted we call her that, too. Didn't impress many people in our rural area.

Any chance that Canada will invade the border states, like Pennsylvania? I would surrender at once!

If not, we're not interested.

Take us, please!

nt

is less prestigious than in some other field? The people at the school should have called her "Dr." without anyone telling them to.

and is definitely less prestigious than an PhD in most other fields.

The only difference in the course requirements was the PhD required
two foreign languages , the EdD just one.

But, you are probably correct when you say that the general public considers the EdD to be less prestigious. Yet, the school principal, with the EdD. should have been addressed as "Dr" unless she requested otherwise. That is the usual practice in education institutions I've been around.

(Sorry for the imagery, considering the Gannon/prostitution story is out front right now.)

We called our professors with PhD's "Dr. So-and-So" in class, but elsewhere, I have never seen the necessity.

But then, don'tcha know, little Condi needs gravitas?

available to her before 9/11. A person whose brain short circuits under the pressure of their responsiblities does not deserve the title of Doctor..

Clark," while calling all those right-wing nuts like Boykin, "general."

I'm sure it's evident in a lot of ways - start watching for it all over.

Forget the topic, but the reference to Bush was to "President Bush," while the reference to Kerry was to "John Kerry." Notable lack of parallel form.

OH I C Cool

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

If we're going with current titles, I suppose "Chairman" would work too.

I've never heard any other atty gen'l referred to as Gen. so-and-so.

Make A look better than B but only by subtle implication.

Do you think you know you are being fed propaganda?
Of course not duh, that is why it's propaganda. It's a tool not an IQ test!

at all costs, down to the smallest detail.

Or, sometimes just "the cobra".

she's just a shitty little excuse for sos.

Governor Dean. Maybe that's why. :shrug:

It's always Dean or Howard to the pundits. How Weird and a bunch of other slurs from the internet trolls. But you had better call her DOCTOR! I wonder if that is how she introduces herself?

very disrespectful to him. That's why I don't watch anything on CNN anymore. I feel much better too. As far as Fried Rice.....now I'm being disrespectful. :evilgrin:

get much right anyway. They probably got it backwards, which is why I used the shrug icon to begin with.

A waiter is on the phone for a posh restaurant taking reservations and the caption reads:

"Yes sir. A table for six at 8:00 p.m. for Dr. Smith's party...And do you mind my asking, sir, is that an actual Medical Doctorate or merely a Ph.D.?"

I've never heard anyone insist that anyone else call her "Dr. Rice", though most right-wingers do so themselves. Do you think that doing so is somehow inappropriate?

Did I not mention her many accomplishments in my original posts? Why would you imagine I would think it inappropriate? As many posters said, it is a bit tooting of your own horn,if that is what she prefers, great. She is a prominent and accomplished woman and is deserving of a respectful title.

My thread addressed: Why won't the talking heads refer to Dr. Dean as such?

As an aside, if you notice she morphs from the diminuitive "Condi" to the gravitas-filled DOCTOR title depending on what this administration needs her to be at the moment.

You said

".......did you ever notice that while the right wing *insists* that you call her a Doctor......."

Who, specifically, has "insisted" that anyone other than him- or herself else should use the title?

Now you suggest that it's "tooting {her} own horn", yet I've never heard that she refers to herself that way or insists, or ever "prefers" it. It's just that many, if not most, on the right and in the media choose to do so and she, apparently, doesn't object. Big deal!

So far as Howard Dean is concerned, I have heard him referred to as Dr. Dean, though, admittedly not as frequently. And, while I was aware that Senator Frist is a physician, I can't say that I've ever heard him referred to as "Dr. Frist", but maybe I just haven't been paying attention. Can't say that I frequently do pay much attention to what folks have to say about him. But it seems as if once someone has run for and won an elected office, prior titles tend to go by the wayside. Once he was elected to the Senate, I don't recall ever hearing John Glenn referred to as "Colonel Glenn" anymore. He was Senator Glenn or John Glenn.

Apparently, once we see their names on a ballot, whatever titles they held in the past just kind of seem to "formal" or something. I don't know. But I fail to see it as some kind of snub. Kind of seems like looking for something to be dissatisfied with to bring it up at all, frankly.

I can't tell you "specifically" who started calling her Doctor Rice, I wish I could be more helpful to you.

When I was first made aware of her during her Chevron days she was not Dr. Rice. When they named an oil tanker after her it was not the "Dr. Rice". She Condoleezza. Then "Condi". When she was announced as NSA in 2000 she was not "Dr. Rice".

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/inauguration/transition/rice.html

When Rush Limbaugh announced on Decmeber 18, 2000:

"Any black conservative that comes along and shows that you can get to the top---reach the pinnacle of your profession---without the recipes of affirmative action or anything else that the liberal wing of the Democratic Party says is a must, threatens the viability of the coalition. For every Clarence Thomas that succeeds, the theory goes that young black kids in America will be looking at that and say, 'wait a minute, I thought I had to go through Jesse Jackson or I thought I had to go through affirmative action or I thought I had to be a big Democrat in order to be successful.' And yet here's Condoleezza Rice, and here's Clarence Thomas, and here's Dr. Thomas Sowell -- there's a whole bunch of Black conservatives doing very very well, that had nothing to do with the prescriptions of the civil rights coalition.".....

Why is Dr. Thomas Sowell a doctor and not Condi?
==
March 30, 2004 Google search: 269 hits for Dr. Condoleezza Rice
Google search today for Dr. Condoleezza Rice: 234,000
==
From usgovinfo.com

"A Balance of Power that Favors Freedom" by Condoleezza Rice published in 2001.

"Why we know Iraq is Lying" By Dr. Condoleezza Rice
released by the White House on Jan. 24, 2003
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aariceoniraq.htm

There has been a subtle shift and if you've not noticed it, fine. Many have.

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President Reagan was once Governor Reagan and before that "B actor" Reagan. Governor Schwartznegger also was "B actor" Schwartznegger and before that "Mr. Universe" (which he continues to frighteningly take seriously).

Governor Dean is a higher title than either Doctor or Chairman.

Frist has been called Dr. Frist many times in print especially when discussing healthcare Legislation.

BTW, Judge is a very high title and used almost all the time, much more than Doctor or Professor.

offers some guidelines: clearly the title should be one that is universally accepted and EQUALLY applied, but what do the RWangers know about "equal" anyway??? in this case, if a host chooses to serve the academic basis, then both should be properly called "Doctor" -- if a host chooses current posts, then it should be Secretary Rice and Chairman Dean -- as a last resort, if you go to human bean, then you just use names ... the UTTERLY CLEAR SKEW here is that they pick/choose arbitrarily how to refer to each of two (or more) individuals in a pairing so as to diminish or underscore capriciously ...

also, BTW, the proper protocol when introducing oneself socially to simply state one's name (no title) -- on the other hand, in professional settings or professional phone calls one obviously inserts title(s) ...

oh, sweet respect, wherefor art thou?

on edit: corrected spelling/language

The commentators and the administration will refer to her as "Condi" when it suits their purpose to put the 'gentle, feminine face' on the subject, but you would never hear the President refer to "Dicky" Cheney or "Donny" Rumsfeld.

for someone with a Ph.D degree to be more confined to academia, specifically for someone who isn't a professor, but is employed in a department as a non-tenure-track lecturer, or in a purely administrative position as a dean, for example. Since Rice was a provost at Stanford, I can see how she might have acquired that title. Had she gone and stayed entirely in the private sector after getting her Ph.D I think it'd be much less likely she'd so often be referred to as "Doctor Rice."

Ph.D.'s (and sorry people, I'll likely get one before too long, too, so try not to be offended) seem a bit easier to come by.

People who become physicians are possessed of a drive and intellect that generally dwarves that of mere mortals.

I'd take Dean's MD over Rice's Ph.D. any day.

think about her, a PHD, partners in political, national, and international crime with an inarticulate laugh-snorting cheerleading huckster.

Has she apologized to Sen. Boxer yet?

No wonder we have a problem getting Americans to take education seriously. ANY doctoral degree requires a minimum of three years of graduate-level study, many quite a bit more. Why the impulse to bad-mouth such people's work and knowledge?

The etiquette rule-of-thumb is, you can address a person by the highest title they've ever held. Since there's no real equivalency between degrees (or positions in different areas for that matter) maybe the title used says more about the speaker than about the person referred to. OTOH, I can't believe Repubs are all that impressed with PhD degrees; they're just using it in an attempt to give Condi a boost in prestige.

and in your last sentence you agree with me. :toast:

people invariably call doctor. Without his tooting his own horn. Without him being a doctor. Somehow nobody's remembered him, but I guess February's drawing to a close.

Dr. Martin Luther King.

Any takers for denying him his title because it's pompous?

:)

* kept referring to her as "Condi". Guess he hasn't been re-trained.