The COINTELPRO Papers -- Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars

Against Dissent in the United States: http://www.southendpress.org/books/Cointelpro2.shtml



Oh, by the way, one of the co-authors of the above book, as well as this, Agents of Repression -- The FBI's Secret Wars Against the Black Panther Party and the American Indian Movement, is WARD CHURCHILL whom some of you are so happy to denounce.

Why don't you "conventional wisdom" bandwagon jumpers who are so happy to bash and denounce Churchill do a little critical thinking and ask yourselves WHY over 3 years after his initially little-noticed post 9/11 essay was first published it was resurrected NOW by the VRWC. This is twofer -- the right is already after "liberal" academics, and with the Chimperor re-installed for a second term, the attacks on dissent are just getting ramped up.

Who better to hit than one of the authors who's published some of the dirtiest secrets of the National Security state?

You people calling him "scum" and worse are fucking fools. You're just abetting the right wing's dirty work. You're buying into your own enshacklement. You might as well be standing with the mob screaming "Give us Barrabas!"

Fucking fools...

sw

:kick:

I see that we're neighbors -- I'm in Minnesota. :-)

sw

Hey! No fair! Your post isn't about Guckert, per se.

COINTELPRO:

The Untold American Story

EXCERPT...

Of roughly 20,000 people investigated by the FBI solely on the basis of their political views between 1956-1971, about 10 to 15% were the targets of active counterintelligence measures per se. Taking counterintelligence in its broadest sense, to include spreading false information, it's estimated that about two-thirds were COINTELPRO targets. Most targets were never suspected of committing any crime.

SNIP...

The counterculture of the sixties, and the FBI's reaction to it, were in many ways a product of the 1950s, the so-called "Age of McCarthyism." John Edgar Hoover, longtime Director of the FBI, was a prominent spokesman of the anti-communist paranoia of the era:

The forces which are most anxious to weaken our internal security are not always easy to identify. Communists have been trained in deceit and secretly work toward the day when they hope to replace our American way of life with a Communist dictatorship. They utilize cleverly camouflaged movements, such as peace groups and civil rights groups to achieve their sinister purposes. While they as individuals are difficult to identify, the Communist party line is clear. Its first concern is the advancement of Soviet Russia and the godless Communist cause. It is important to learn to know the enemies of the American way of life. 3

Throughout the 1960s, Hoover consistently applied this theory to a wide variety of groups, on occasion reprimanding agents unable to find "obvious" communist connections in civil rights and anti-war groups. 4 During the entire COINTELPRO period, no links to Soviet Russia were uncovered in any of the social movements disrupted by the FBI.

The commitment of the FBI to undermine and destroy popular movements departing from political orthodoxy has been extensive, and apparently proportional to the strength and promise of such movements, as one would expect in the case of the secret police organization of any state, though it is doubtful that there is anything comparable to this record among the Western industrial democracies.

In retrospect, the COINTEPRO's of the 1960s were thoroughly successful in achieving their stated goals, "to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the enemies of the State.


CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/COINTELPRO_Untold_Story.html

MORE...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/FBI_watch.html

Gee. So many things to know. So little time. How do you do it, scarletwoman?

including the "Free Peltier" movement, which was how I first got know about Ward Churchill and his work on exposing Cointelpro.

I first got online on New Years Eve, Dec. 31, 1999. I was so thrilled to finally have a way to research all the dark secrets of "Deep Politics" -- are you familiar with Peter Dale Scott? Most people don't have a damn clue -- YOU are one of the shining exceptions here, you KNOW how much has been hidden away.

I am so absolutely DISGUSTED at the Ward Churchill bashing going on here that I can hardly put a coherent sentence together. I really appreciate a friendly "face" showing up and adding to my thread -- thanks, Octafish! :hug:

sw

it reminds me far too much of listening to RWers parrot the same few simplistic, out of context, or outright untrue talking points over and over.

You'll notice none of them dare even address the context of the entire Churchill speech.

& thanks for this post, BTW

I rarely post anymore, it's gotten to be more trouble than it's worth trying to dig through the chaf here to find anyone with their critical thinking skills intact. I'm glad there's still some oldtimers like you around who continue to be willing to wade into the fray.

I haven't seen one Churchill detractor actually link to his essay and debate it point by point. It's all just broad-brush demonizing. If this is the best that "liberals" can do, then we may as well just roll over and give up.

Thanks again for your post,
sw

I wade in, I'm not sure why sometimes. I generally hold back to an extent because I am also pretty radical. It was good to see your post though. I forgot that it was Churchill who did all that research on COINTELPRO. I know about all the words and accusations among AIM members about Churchill, but having good friends who are part of AIM and having been around Native rights issues I am used to hearing the back-biting etc. It seems to be part of the territory.


I was thinking that with the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X, some of us might remember what a hard time many 'liberals' have always had with certain people.
I guess it is pretty normal for us in the dominant culture to cringe at times. I am very poor right now, but I still am granted some privilege more than others in our society. We have our comfort zones for sure. This whole Churchill thing ruffles people's feathers, so what? I post items here that are much more significant in the scheme of things and they are often ignored. So what, again, we should all probably be in the streets striking en mass. Doesn't look that will happen any time soon.

Anyway, peace and blessings to you, G_j

I'm pretty familiar with them, too. I got to know some of the Minneapolis people (Vernon Bellecourt, and some others) back in the early 70's -- there's some really dark shit in there regarding Anna Mae Aquash, which is WAY too much to get into here.

No matter at what level, Indian politics is definitely a bitch. For what it's worth, in view of what I know about Banks and the Bellecourts, I'll side with Churchill and Colorado AIM (which supports him).

I've been lucky, I've gotten to experience life on the rez as an accepted member of the community. There's so much that folks in the dominant culture just don't comprehend.

I'm pretty poor, too. I haven't had running water for 7 years because I went with my dream and got my place in the boonies, but I don't make enough money to get a well dug. But I have a car, and a TV and a computer and a telephone -- ain't no Third World lifestyle, that's for sure.

Anyway, yeah, the "People" ought to be shutting this country down, but it ain't gonna happen. It's all too comfortable to keep going along for the ride. And from what I see these days at DU, there's far more folks in thrall to conventional wisdom, than really have their eyes open.

Makes me sad -- and sometimes downright angry like now, with this Ward Churchill bashing. Fucking clueless...

sw

have had some nasty rifts in the last few years.
It makes me sad, I have just been a naive outsider trying to help.
It all gets very convoluted, I suppose the dysfunction simply reflects the terrible deep wounds the people have suffered.
I once spoke for a while with Vernon Bellecourt on the phone, I was gathering information about Walmart and the desecration of Indian burial grounds. He was very helpful and interesting to talk to.
My local AIM chapter is very pissed at him. I've learned to stay out of all that. I've gained more understanding from people who have gravitated to the spiritual more then the political. But one thing I have learned is that it is very hard for someone from my background to fully grasp all the issues confronting Native Americans and it usually best for me just to listen as well as I can.

It was the spiritual that claimed me first, the political followed because I ended up involved with people who were involved politically.

The thing about AIM -- as well as the Peltier stuff -- is the very thing that Ward Churchill addresses in his COINTELPRO works. The infiltration and "bad jacketing" fomented by the FBI basically destroyed the movement by destroying trust. Everyone was suspicious of everyone else -- who had been compromised/seduced? No one could ever be sure.

It's tragic -- and it's important. If the left ignores the warnings and the real life experiences of the truly disenfranchised, then the old hippies (like me) and bleeding heart white "liberals" might as well just stop wasting their time and energy and give up the pretense that they are looking to change the direction of this country.

We've got to come to grips with the deeper evil that permeates our culture -- a country founded on genocide and slavery. It starts with recognizing white privilege and rejecting conventional wisdom...

sw

same thing happened to the Black Panthers.
If anyone thinks this tried and true strategy is not being perfected further today, they should study some more history and then just look around.

When I look around DU -- I rarely post, but I still read -- I see SO much naivite, so much acceptance of surface appearances, that I truly despair.

There's few street smarts in evidence -- the right is cutthroat, no bones about it, and too much of the left keeps acting like reason will somehow prevail. It won't, not without utter disaster crashing down about our ears first...

Gotta go to bed now -- thanks so much for the hearty exchange! :loveya:

sw

:hi: G_j
:hug::loveya:...you too sw...missed ya
:grouphug:
DR

Among his tales of police brutality and revolutionary fervour, Seale inserted a chapter entitled ‘Huey Digs Bob Dylan’. The setting is the home of radical lawyer Beverly Axelrod in 1966: Newton and Seale are laying up the pages for the first issue of their party newspaper, cunningly titled The Black Panther. ‘While we were laying that paper out, in the background we could hear a record, and the song was named “Ballad of a Thin Man” by Bob Dylan. Now the melody was in my head... but I didn’t really hear the words. This record played after we stayed up laying out the paper. And it played the next night after we stayed up laying out the paper. I think it was around the third afternoon that the record was playing. We played that record over and over and over.

‘Huey P. Newton made me recognize the lyrics. Not only the lyrics of the record, but what the lyrics meant in the record. What the lyrics meant in the history of racism that had perpetuated itself in the world. Huey would say: “Listen, listen – man, do you hear what he is saying?” Huey had such insight into how racism existed, how racism had perpetuated himself. He had such a way of putting forth in very clear words what he related directly to those symbolic things or words that were coming out from Bobby Dylan. ‘I remember that the song got to the point where he was talking about this cat handing in his ticket and he walked up to the geek, and the geek handed him a bone. Well, this didn’t relate to me, so I said: “Huey, look, wait a minute, man”. I said, “What are you talking about a geek? What is a geek? What the hell is a geek?” And Huey explains it.’

Newton’s explanation runs for almost a page: ‘“a geek”, he tells Seale, “is usually a circus performer”, who has been badly injured and can’t work any longer. But he knows no other life than the circus, so he agrees to do the lowliest jobs just to stay in the community. Maybe he even agrees to eat live chickens in a cage as a freak attraction.’ Newton continues: ‘These people who are coming in to see him are coming in for entertainment, so they are the real freaks. And the geek knows this, so during his performance, he eats the raw chicken and he hands one of the members of the audience a bone. ‘Then to put it on the broader level, what Dylan is putting across is middle-class people or upper-class people who sometimes take a Sunday afternoon off and put their whole family into a limousine, and they go down to the black ghettos to watch the prostitutes and watch the decaying community.(...) That makes the middle-class and upper-class people, who are down there because they get pleasure out of it, freaks.

And this goes into the one-eyed midget. What is the one-eyed midget? He screams and howls at Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones doesn’t know what’s happening. Then the one-eyed midget says, give me some juice or go home. And this again is very symbolic of people who are disadvantaged. They’re patronizing Mr. Jones, the middle-class people. You know, they’re not interested in them coming down for entertainment. But if they’ll pay them for a trick, then they’ll tolerate them, or else they’ll drive them out of the ghettoes. This song is hell. You’ve got to understand that this song is saying a hell of a lot about society.’

Seale digests this explanation, and notes: ‘Bobby Dylan says, you don’t know what’s happening, do you, Mr. Jones? And to hand him the naked bone was too much – was really too much.’

An insignificant if amusing interlude, you might think, suggesting that Huey P. Newton missed his vocation as a literary critic. But as Seale explains later in the chapter, ‘Ballad of a Thin Man’ came to occupy a key place in the imaginative landscape of the Panthers: ‘This song Bobby Dylan was singing became a very big part of that whole publishing operation of the Black Panther paper. And in the background, while we were putting this paper out, this record came up and I guess a number of papers were published, and many times we would play that record. Brother Stokely Carmichael also liked that record. This record became so related to us, even to the brothers who had held down most of the security for the set.

http://www.judasmagazine.com/pages.asp/peterdoggettj1.asp


You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

-Dylan

UC Berkeley Library
Social Activism Sound Recording Project:
The Black Panther Party

The UC Berkeley Social Activism Sound Recording Project is a partnership between the UC Berkeley Library, the Pacifica Foundation, and other private and institutional sources. The intent of the project is to gather, catalog, and make accessible primary source media resources related to social activism and activist movements in California in the 1960's and 1970's. Some recordings have been slightly edited for purposes of sound quality and continuity.

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/pacificapanthers.html

Hampton and Clark

Hampton founded the Chicago chapter of the Black Panther Party in November 1968. He immediately established a community service program. This included the provision of free breakfasts for schoolchildren and a medical clinic that did not charge patients for treatment. Hampton also taught political education classes and instigated a community control of police project.


SON OF A MINISTER
Clark was one of 17 children of the Rev. and Mrs. William Elder Clark. Rev. Clark was a well-known Pentecostal minister who died several months prior to his son’s death. Mrs. Clark lived in Michigan for many years after her son died. She reportedly later returned to the Peoria area where she died three months ago. Several Clark children still live in central Illinois while others reside out of state.

“Certainly, Mark Clark should be considered one the martyrs to the cause of black dignity and human equality,” the Rev. Blaine Ramsey, pastor at Davis Memorial Chapel in LaGrange, IL. and a one-time Peoria minister, declared in a recent phone interview. “He came to my church (in 1969) and asked me, ‘Rev. Ramsey, can we use Ward Chapel A.M.E. for our breakfast program?’ And I consented to it — no other church in Peoria would open their doors — for what I considered a worthwhile endeavor. There were a number of little children who really needed a good breakfast.”

The professor's put the Truth ahead of his own self-interest, career and health. Because of him, we know about the drug-dealing, war-mongering, treasonous bastids behind a lot of what's wrong with America and the world -- and the JFK assassination.

I appreciate what you wrote about Ward Churchill. I don't like his choice of words to make his point, but in our nation today, all are free to express his or her opinion in their own way. Those who never understood (or don't understand) that -- like J Edgar Hoover and his turd toadies in the FBI -- don't even know they are traitors.

Most importantly: Thanks for the kind words, scarletwoman.

caught my attention. It's a pity that more people don't know about him and his work -- but maybe just as well, since he probably would have been "Wellstoned" long ago if he were more widely known.

In any case, I started this thread because I wanted people to understand that Churchill is ALSO a "Truth Keeper". Yes, he uses abrasive language, but his entire body of work is dedicated to shaking people out of their complacency and denial. I've been a supporter for many years, I'm certainly not going to bail on him now.

And, you're welcome to the kind words -- you totally deserve them.

sw

Their message is that Churchill represents all of academia. The effective thing to do, and the honest thing to do, is to keep the RW from making Churchill represent everybody. Defending Churchill just strengthens their case that Churchill is representative of the left. He'd be worth defending anyway if he had something important to contribute. I haven't seen anything.

I argued all this out one other time, and I'm the guy who called Churchill scum. I got called lots of names, and lots of people said Churchill wasn't saying what he actually said, but I never saw any facts, evidence, or logic that would excuse the guy.

I'd be open to reading what he has on government stifling of dissent. I agree that happens and continues to happen, and its very dangerous. I have problems with Churchill's credibility though, in that he uses Waco as a symbol. Koresh killed those kids at Waco.

To me, being liberal isn't about just opposing the establishment. Its about thought instead of emotion. Its about looking for reasonable alternatives in the face of RW extremists. Its the exact opposite of the "right and wrong are determined by which side you are on" type thinking, that seemed to be the standard of the folks who disagreed with me.

I believe that America is being taken over by planned, organized Fascism. Those of us who can see need to determine what is effective to stop Fascism, not what to cheer about in meaningless us versus them controversies. Ward Churchill is not going to get America to give everything back to the Indians. His rhetoric is going to hurt causes that have some chance. The best thing the left could do is dump this guy.

And I have no use for people who accept conventional wisdom like this: "Koresh killed those kids at Waco." Really? How do you know that? Because that's what the media told you?

"Ward Churchill is not going to get America to give everything back to the Indians." Where's your link to cite where it is that he says that this is what he wants?

As far as I can see, you're just jumping on a bandwagon without actually doing any research of your own. Have you even read his 9/11 essay that suddenly became of interest over 3 years after it was published?

And you're TOTALLY wrong on this: "Defending Churchill just strengthens their case that Churchill is representative of the left." Defending Churchill is about defending the right of academics -- and ALL of us -- to hold unpopular opinions, to defend against people being persecuted for "thought crimes".

You say you want to find ways to "stop Fascism", but you join right up with the lynch mob demonizing this guy and calling for his head. Way to fight fascism... :eyes:

sw

1. I believe that Koresh killed the kids at Waco because LOTS of media outlets came to that conclusion, along with a congressional commmittee. There was no reason for the government to burn the place down. 1000s of people were involved and nobody came forward with any evidence that the government burned it down, save one bright spot on film that was easily explained. What evidence do you have the the government burned Waco down? Ward Churchill?

I've read the 9/11 essay, but nothing else of Churhcill's. For all I know he may have many worthwhile things to say. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon. 99% of RW stories are nothing but lies. I read the essay. Its true that Churchill said the victims of 9/11 deserved their fate. He said other crazy things too, like power lunches and stock transactions mean starved children. The guy is psycho at best and needs to be set aside.

I think what was going on in DU went beyond defending Churhcill's acadmemic freedom, which I support.

I don't want Ward Churchill to be lynched. I'd just like to see the left disown him.

Your response has a tone of attacking me, rather than what I've said.

"I think what was going on in DU went beyond defending Churhcill's acadmemic freedom, which I support."

If you support Churchill's academic freedom, then how does calling him "scum" demonstrate that? Making ad hominen attacks is a classic rw technique, why have YOU done it?

"I believe that Koresh killed the kids at Waco because LOTS of media outlets came to that conclusion, along with a congressional commmittee. There was no reason for the government to burn the place down. 1000s of people were involved and nobody came forward with any evidence that the government burned it down, save one bright spot on film that was easily explained. What evidence do you have the the government burned Waco down?"

Oh yes, if the media AND a congressional committee say so, it must be true. The media and the government NEVER lie. And if the only thing you've read of Churchill is his 9/11 essay, then how do you know what he's said about Waco? From what other Churchill bashers have said that he's said?

Believe what you want to believe, but PLEASE don't be so naive as to think the whole truth comes out when the government screws up.

I'm not "attacking" you, I'm CHALLENGING you to support your assertions. That you've admitted that you haven't read anything else that Churchill's written certainly lends to the appearance of bandwagon jumping, don't you think?

sw

More people ought to know about this, imho...

sw

Churchill surrounded by supporters while speaking to a crowd of at least 2000 people.


Thousands attend Churchill speech
By Erin Gartner, Associated Press
February 8, 2005

A University of Colorado professor who ignited a firestorm by likening the World Trade Center victims to Nazis received a standing ovation Tuesday from a crowd of more than a thousand who packed a ballroom to hear him speak.

University officials had announced plans to cancel the speech because of security concerns then backed off after Ward Churchill filed a lawsuit earlier Tuesday asking a judge to force the school to let him speak.

More than two dozen campus police officers inside the ballroom used handheld metal detectors to scan attendees for weapons. It was not immediately clear if police found any.

Outside the ballroom, about 250 people who were turned away, listened to Churchill's speech on speakers set up by university officials.

The crowd was loud and orderly as an Churchill, whose writings and speeches face a 30-day university review that could lead to his dismissal, spoke: "I do not work for the taxpayers of the state of Colorado. I do not work for (Gov.) Bill Owens. I work for you," he said to thunderous applause.
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050208214150291

I'm really heartened to know that the students are behind him!

Down in the comments I found this little bit: "On CNN tonight they interviewed a member of the Board of Regents in Colorado who said that he does not agree with Ward but he should not be fired. He went onto say that it is virtually impossible for them to fire him for his political speech. The Governor of Colorado is the main person pushing for his firing and even the Board of Regents member said that."

Hoka hey!

sw

:kick:

and I liked him!

Critical thinking is so difficult for many.

week.

It is very good and features a very clear talk by
Russell Means of AIM why Ward is an American Indian
leader today.

I agree and believe that the denial of the legacy of
plenty enjoyed by the descendants of the perpetrators
of the North American genocide is one of the cancers
at the heart of this nation's soul.

As I said upthread, I was active for many years in American Indian political issues. It was astonishing to me to find how totally anaware most white Americans are about the degree to which racism and white supremacism infects and permeates the dominant culture.

White privilege is for the most part completely invisible, and therefore eminently deniable, to the majority of white people in this country. Even with so-called "liberals", who tend to simply substitute paternalism (usually of the "white burden" variety) for overt racism.

The collective psyche of the U.S. has been projecting its "shadow" (in the Jungian sense) outward for most of its history. Thus, our society becomes more and more dysfunctional and twisted as we are presently witnessing.

Someday this shadow will consume us utterly, if we do not stop and turn around and recognize it.

sw

not because American's didn't want socialism. We're more conservative then Europe due to coercion by the government more than any other reason.

What most people don't understand is that long ago the U.S. government became the servant of the capitalists. All subsequent crimes have proceeded from that fact.

sw

damn its good to see you here again!! Ya got my old blood pumping....:evilgrin:

I couldn't agree more with your statement above. I look at the world as it is now and think...where the hell has my world gone?? When the hell did this happen? How did the mindfuck complete itself and most of the population didn't even see it coming let alone remember what life is supposed to be like?? How did we get to be slaves to our credit cards, big SUV's,insane worship of sports/movies celebs that we create and then tear down?

How the hell did we get a sham of a man for president who is also the biggest liar and his evil cabal shoving more lies on us while they enslave us more & take away more of our "freedoms" and hook us on yet more fear filled mass distractions??

I agree its the capitalism Koolaid and we handed them the cup for refills cause it was easier than thinking and taking action......well...not all of us. (Thank Creator that there are some who never touch the stuff!!)

Why aren't we out on the streets?? I wonder in disbelief myself that we aren't....

I do believe there are those who are waking up...with a few well placed kicks ( some to the head and some to the ass) My hope is that its enough and its in time....

:hug::loveya:sw (:hi: :hug: to you too G_j)
DR ( another who refused the koolaid!)

:hug: :loveya:
You've probably noticed that I don't post much anymore. The ever increasing ratio of chaf to kernal that's happening here at DU makes it seem like a nearly useless effort.

As far as "waking up" goes, I see SO little evidence. (*sigh*) When so-called "liberals" so easily and gleefully jump on the Churchill bashing bandwagon, without knowing a THING about the man and his body of work and what's he been about for longer than some of them have been alive, fer cripesakes, then what hope is there?

I loved what Tinoire said in another thread: "Ward Churchill may not be one of YOU, but he IS one of ME!" That's where I'm at, and that's where I proudly and unapologetically stand.

"First they came for the communists..."

Love to you always -- and Peace,
sw

Thank you for this thread Scarletwoman.
I too was disgusted by the thread that is lengthy now, where he is called "scum". truly disgusting. I didn't expect to see such vacous postings on a progressive board, as I saw on that thread.

This is really a situation of trying to stop any form of dissent.

(I wished to private message you, but I do not have enough postings I suppose? I was interested in discussing your lack of a water well.)

You and others have stated things in a memorable way, music to me, on here. A few of the things said that impressed me are pasted below.
Thanks to those who said them.





"It's tragic -- and it's important. If the left ignores the warnings and the real life experiences of the truly disenfranchised, then the old hippies (like me) and bleeding heart white "liberals" might as well just stop wasting their time and energy and give up the pretense that they are looking to change the direction of this country."


"I agree and believe that the denial of the legacy of
plenty enjoyed by the descendants of the perpetrators
of the North American genocide is one of the cancers
at the heart of this nation's soul."

"Someday this shadow will consume us utterly, if we do not stop and turn around and recognize it."

(yes, you will need more posts before you can send private messages -- in any case, my lack of a water well is really not a big deal, I have a car and place to haul water from; I am exceedingly privileged by the standards in which multitudes of people live on this planet.)

I would like to extend to you an enthusiastic welcome to DU! :hug: I really look forward to seeing more of your posts!

I've been here for almost 4 years. It's changed alot (as all things must) in that time, and I must say that I get extremely discouraged these days at the shallowness and ignorance of so much of the posting here.

But a thoughtful and supportive post like yours makes up for hundreds of posts by idiots. Thank you SO much for helping me keep the faith!

Bless you,
sw

& thanks for resurrecting this post.

:hi:

:kick:

Churchill exposed COINTELPRO?

Well by all means then! Let's hang the man from the highest right-wing tree!!

Yeah, Churchill is such "scum", such a "clown".

I'll say one thing, that other thread really separates the true lefties from the faux "liberals". A pox on the damn "liberals", I KNOW who really has my back.

:loveya:
sw

Here is but a piece of this poem. Keep posting.


The fact that we were
unconsciously part of a plan
to weaken and cross out the
Indianness in you
to pattern your land with our grain and beets
and corn and alfalfa
now clearly hits me.

It is like a blow to the gut
to learn that the years spent
on the reservation, the times
wading in the Wind River
were not the free years of childhod
but the manipulations of a power
hungry to exonerate itself, to
free itself, to purge the treaties
of any real meaning or responsibility.
-DeLinda Wunder

I do not post often. English is second language, and I go slow to limit errors.

It pained me to see how easy it was for many on a progressive board to buy the words of the harsh right.

This kind man from Quaker House, who appeared on Fox tv, explains well what he hears happening in this case.(his own short interview is worth reading).

http://afriendlyletter.com/

We must constantly realize, that the harsh right, ( I never call them "conservative", as they would cut down the last tree standing and not even save the money they got for it, and I'm surprised so many on a progressive board use this stolen word to describe them), do not care about some small thing this man said.....they care about dissent.

Excellent reading, I hope more people will go take a look. What I wish more people would understand is this:



You do VERY well in English, and everything you say is totally right on. Thank you again!

(I have to go bed now, I hope to see more of your posts soon!)

Bless you,
sw

:faint:

he's now plagiarizing one of our government's precious body of secrets!!!

how's this gonna look for us 'lefties'?!

:evilgrin:

bookmarked, thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

Can always count on you to get right to the heart of the matter! :evilgrin:

sw
:toast:

it really is the least i can do ;->

:loveya:

peace

Around 15 years ago, I think it was my sophomore year in high school, I gave a report on MLK Jr. I remember that when I was in the library I came across that book: The FBI's Secret Wars Against the Black Panther Party and the American Indian Movement. I used it as a reference because it was so awesome. One of the most significant things from the book that I used in the report was how FBI agents tried to get MLK to commit suicide by blackmailing him. If I recall correctly, they had been watching him for a long time--yes, tens of thousands of pages on the peaceful civil rights activist (check the FOIA FBI gov website). The agents found that King had a prostitute in his hotel room and then sent him a letter or tape, saying they would out him, if he did not kill himself.

Great work that Churchill did in exposing this. To creeksneakers2, I just have to say, please read the book before making statements like "He'd be worth defending anyway if he had something important to contribute."

And to scarletwoman, I have to ask you, how do you feel about what happened to Lynne Stewart? Personally, I think that Dean totally trivialized the big time problems with the US Patriot Act. I am betting that the moderates (like creeksneakers2) would also tell the left to disown Stewart. In fact, this happened in another thread, where I was told that we need to prioritize "regime change." Here is the lack of critical thinking you are talking about. Here are the talking points with the "WooHoos" and the one-liners about Stewart:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1242994

Here was a single dissenter from the left:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1242994#1243431

Here was my response:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1242994&mesg_id=1243945&page=

I am TOTALLY in support of Lynne Stewart. And screw the vichy "liberal" collaborators who'd prefer to give her up to the right wing lynch mob.

Thank you for your excellent post. I must postpone following your links to the Lynne Sewart discussions, however, as I REALLY have got to go to bed.

And, to tell the truth, I don't know how much more "liberal" idiocy I can take...

Thanks again,
sw

can learn from histroy. These people are capable of anything and everything.

Those who call some of us on the left, "conspiracy kooks" should read about what has already happened.

Like the man said, "learn from history or repeat it".

The bush* junta is all about building up the National Security State. Their right wing minions keep amping up the message that dissent is "treason". And clueless "liberals" are happy to join in the Ward Churchill hate-fest, instead of standing up to the forces who are seeking to destroy academic freedom.

Voltaire famously said, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to my death your right to say it." A sterling principle apparently lost on far too many DUers.

We are in a battle against fascism, yet I've seen many willing to stand right alongside the enemy.

Pastor Martin Niemöller said it best:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a communist...

Try it this way: First they came for Ward Churchill, and I did not speak out because I didn't like Ward churchill...

Everything about the Churchill witch-hunt is a wakeup call, but most of the "left" is sleepwalking...

sw

I wonder how many trolls are here in the wake of the End of America. Their Masters own everything, lock, stock, and unalterable barrel. The mechanisms of the Police State is already here.

They just have to flick a switch. LIHOP #2, anyone?

As to the general state of things to come:

Its only going to get worse is right, unfortunately

Even IF we are all wrong about all the crimes of the Imperial Family, and they are just flawed but semi-honorable people (I know it's a stretch, but I'm going somewhere with it)

then the crazy economics of weak dollar, hogh debt would sink us...will sink us, even without all teh other horrs they likely have planned.

But I think it's much worse than that. For the millionth time I hope I'm wrong.

I see too much unquestioning Fuhrer Worship to have any illusions.

;-)

It's not just the "Fuhrer Worship(pers)", it's also the so-called liberals who seem unable to see or comprehend the big picture and fall for right wing distractions over and over...

sw

:hi: scarletwoman :hi:

I was hoping that DUers would be interested in learning about COINTELPRO, besides getting a clue about who Ward Churchill is, and WHY the fascists have plenty of reason for wanting to take him down.

I don't post much anymore, but this is one of those things that I think is REALLY important.

Thanks for the kick! :hug:

sw

This is some scary shit, and something I bring up every time I hear someone spouting FoxNews talking points about how 9-11 happened because America's poor widdle waw enforcement didn't have the right to torture people into confessing or surveil them without reason. No one remembers why the FISA requirements were put into place -- to prevent the federal government from abusing its citizens.

Out of curiosity, do you know if Churchill's work ended up in the Church Commission report?

I can only say that the COINTELPRO book was first published in 1990, while the Church Committee hearings happened in 1975. It is more likely that the book drew on information brought out in those hearings, rather than the other way around.

sw

"Its true that Churchill said the victims of 9/11 deserved their fate."

The Left used to mean Socialists and Communists. Now it means anyone that is not RW?

Dems and Greens believe in Capitalism. Greens think it can be reformed.

Socialists and Communitsts want the Capitalist system abolished.

The FBI and the CIA are the police force of the Capitalists. They have nothing to do with democracy!

debate and have not replied to any posts or threads on him whatsoever.

But thanks for kicking this important thread about COINTELPRO. :hi: