WV Agency Scraps Women Vets Statue

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_statue_030205,00.html


A design for a statue honoring the state's female veterans was scrapped amid concerns that the figure of a muscular woman in military fatigues and T-shirt was not feminine enough
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(I'd post more but the site acts slow and peculiar on my dial-up)

the artists is pissed and doesn't want his rep. ruined. he said it was approved and he was working on it when another group didn't like it and stopped it from being finished.

anyway, women vets lose again.

and four inch heels? With PEARLS?

Christalmighty, what dumbfuckery is this?

This is really confusing.

I'll have to go back and review,...but, I swear,...what I remember simply is inconsistent with this post.

:shrug:

makes me wanna change my avatar.

If they're going to erect statues, how about some for the peacemakers?

When I returned from Airborne School in the Fall of 1979 it seemed that I was all "muscle and bones." I took off my shirt and gazed at my back in the mirror to discover that "I was cut" a little along my shoulder blades.

Back in the 70s, weight lifting was unheard of save for side show stories. While I was doing the above my Mother walked in and "freaked out." Oh child, you must stop all that physical training, your back is all muscled!

Truth be told, I didn't look much different than the TV aerobics types like Denise Austin, et. al. But in the 70s, it was horrible to have any notable muscle tone and lines ... heaven forbid that some people might think you to be a lesbian. :P

I don't understand this ... women train to be Military Police. The Infantry schools of Airborne and Air Assault are open to women. What do they think women soldiers SHOULD LOOK LIKE after humping a 50 lb pack on a forced road march, or running with a 30 lb parachute off of the drop zone?

Prejudice and discrimination are alive and well in the Army. But fortunately for us, intelligent and strong women like Colonel Mary A. Hallaren, paved the way for many to serve with honor and distinction. She and others like her did not allow their petite size or gender limit the force and quality of their leadership.

I hope we can lobby for a statue honoring her in the future. Now that's something, in particular, I'd be willing to promote. :-)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5731-2005Mar3.html

. . . "...a review committee polled women veterans and found they opposed the design...." Also, it was "...not complete....presented as a model. . . . But it drew complaints from some female veterans who said the figure lacks femininity."

Without seeing at least a photo of the "model"--and speaking as a West Virginian, BTW--I'm siding with the female vets on this one.

:thumbsdown:

I suspect that all those complaints were not of much significance and the vast majority of WV women (of any State!) would be thrilled by ANY statue that rightly recognizes the contributions that women have made to military service.

You can always get a few women to side with the men. As I recall they were the round heels ones who always dropped out of runs and were reporting to sick call every other day.

Nope, I'm not buying that sorry, lame a**ed excuse to, once again, pretend that women did not HONORABLY serve their country in military service.

"The Female Vets" as you put it are the stragglers. This was a ploy and not the opinion of the majority of women veterans.

If anyone can find, please post it here?

In the interm, I suspect that they wish to divert the money that is to be paid to finish this tribute to some OTHER program?

I couldn't believe that now "a garden" is on the table. These people have NO shame.

"About $60,000 has been spent on the statue to date out of the $200,000 appropriated. The WVVC believes input to the Governor is needed from the States Women Veterans. Beecher Rhoades does not believe enough information has been disseminated to the Women Veterans Groups and those organizations need to be informed."

. . . West Virginia's 7000 women veterans by...the state Division of Culture and History." He said the agency "...required him to provide a sculpture of a woman in military fatigues." That was in 1999.

"Mullins' work is not complete and has only been presented to veterans and state officials as a model. But it drew complaints from some female veterans who said the figure lacks femininity.... Some vets and lawmakers also complained the soldier is not depicted wearing a regulation military uniform."

Considering that "...the figure (is) of a muscular woman in military fatigues and T-shirt....", isn't it possible that the image of Lynndie England was called to mind?

Until I see Mr. Mullins' model for myself, I'll trust the opinion of the West Virginia female veterans who complained.

tends to remind you of Lyndie England? You have something else that is bothering you beyond the site of "well toned" healthy women.

I'm thankful that I grew up a farm girl in South Dakota where the men folk liked their women hearty. :P

Gee, honest, I'm at a complete loss.

On edit: Bridget Burke outed you for misquoting Mullins or was just stating your personal opinion. I'm not sure, please clarify?

For the record it's Jessica Lynch NOT Lyndie England that the Artist stated as favoring the model of his statue.

"If you could view her, clad in her T-shirt and fatigues, you might remark, as some observers have, on certain similarities to West Virginia war celebrity Pfc. Jessica Lynch."

My suggestion: Regroup ;)

. . . there's no misquoting of Mullins that I can see. You wanna explain? The quotations I used are from the www.military.com link in donsu's initial post. I haven't yet read whatever it is that Bridget Burke posted and, therefore, find it irrelevant to anything I've said thus far.

Secondly: When I read the words "muscular woman in military fatigues and T-shirt", I realized those words are simply an Associated Press reporter's description of a statue--a statue that's meant to honor 7000 West Virginia female veterans, some of whom have complained that "...the figure lacks femininity...." Though I hadn't seen the statue, I trusted the female vets' opinions. And, now that someone has posted a photo of the statute, I agree with those female veterans and, also, with "Some vets and lawmakers (who) also complained the soldier is not depicted wearing a regulation military uniform."

As for the statue reminding me of either Lynndie England or Jessica Lynch? Not only does it not remind me of either of those women, it doesn't remind me of any female vet. I mean: I've seen civilian women and girls walking around a local shopping mall in similar get-ups!

As for your "Regroup" suggestion? ;-) Honey-child, when you have at least threescore and ten under your belt, you'll figure out what it really means to "regroup".

B-)

And excuse me ... the quotes threw me off but were inappropriate, regardless of the source.

No, she don't have the face of Barbie, but she does NOT have what most any modern person would call "a muscular build."

Remember this survey was called for by the WVVC. Why? I'll tell you, because a lot of MEN didn't think a woman should be in T shirt and Fatigues in a statue. They covered their responsibility by CLAIMING that SOME women complained therefore did this survey.

Remember the paragraph I quoted above from an earlier meeting BEFORE all the need for "let's take a survey" fandango? It's because they framed it so that they could divert the remaining funds that was allocated for a women's veterans statue back in 1998. Why else would they be willing to throw $60,000 of the artist's work down the drain?

I'd be willing to bet MONEY that there's some "little ole' pet" project that the WVVC would rather spend all that chump change left over on. Well that is unless you think this quaint idea of a "living garden of tribute" will cost $140,000. Now, I could be wrong ... but I'm not. :-)

On Edit: Thanks for explaining although I don't agree with you at all. Yeah, you're ok, but IM not so humble opinion wrong on this one. Peace. ;)

. . . I have to ask the source of that paragraph. It isn't in the military.com article. Nor is it in the grafwv.com article.

What I'm finding a little humorous right not is the fact that, in the grafwv.com article, Mullins is quoted as saying that "The state has proven its capacity for putting bad art on the Capitol grounds. I hope they don't resort to bad art to satisfy veterans." Aren't the four statues of male soldiers at the Veterans Memorial good examples of his art? And isn't it female veterans who are dissatisfied with Mr. Mullins' "too masculine" model of a female soldier?

Oh, well . . . :shrug: . . . As Joe Mullins said, "It's like trying to sell a water buffalo to a bunch of Bedouins. They don't know what they're buying, so it's hard to negotiate with them."

Edited to add that Larry Linch, head of the WV Veterans Affairs office said that Mullins "...indicated that the statue was as it was, that there were no changes that he (Mullins) could make." (emphasis added) Yep! That'd be "hard to negotiate with them", wouldn't it?

hoopla on August 16, 2003.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:zZoEIzFDNBcJ:www.wvvc.usveteran.net/newsletters/aug03.htm+%22West+Virginia%22+%22Women+Veterans+Statue%22&hl=en&start=3
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Excerpt -

"There was a lengthy discussion concerning the proposed Women Veterans Statue to be erected at the Capitol. The proposed statue has met with mixed feelings. Many of the women veterans feel insulted by the proposed statue while some current women veterans believe it is ok. Larry Linch advised he has met with Secretary Joe Martin and the historical society. About $60,000 has been spent on the statue to date out of the $200,000 appropriated. The WVVC believes input to the Governor is needed from the States Women Veterans. Beecher Rhoades does not believe enough information has been disseminated to the Women Veterans Groups and those organizations need to be informed.

Reginald Goodin moved that Marge Paugh be appointed to Chair a WVVC Committee to address this issue. Seconded by Beecher Rhoades. Motion Carried.

Homer Lohr moved that the WVVC support any concept for the statue which receives the approval from the Women Veterans Organizations. Seconded by Dewey Turley. Motion Carried."
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So you see, according to the ORIGINAL meeting of the WVVC, the project was allocated $200,000 not $100,000. Also the artist had been advanced $60,000 NOT $50,000.

I have to explain myself "just a little." To me this woman soldier IS dressed in a regulation uniform. When I was on Active Duty, the first uniform you "fell out" in the morning was THIS: T-shirt, BDU pants, Cap, and Boots. I have also had the honor of carrying the "Guide-On" that she has in her left hand. When you run as a platoon or a company, the Guide-On bearer runs in front of the unit. We always ran first thing in the morning and in THAT (PT) uniform.

I guess that's why she did not remind me of kids at the mall. Besides they would not IMO be so neat to wear a military cap the proper way.

To give your your due, you are a resident in WV and know the natives there much better than I. I thought that I was aware of a "general mindset" of other women Army veterans, but we're a diverse group also.

To conclude (finally!), my only comment is "there's something going on here that's NOT right." Otherwise, why are they throwing away $60,000 advance that they had already have given to Mullins? I wonder if there's some other project that may need ... say $140,000? But I'm a jaded ole' feisty broad, and no one knows the REAL details.

Beyond time to give ER' a rest. Best to all ... :toast:

,...the moment that this incredibly impactful "snapshot" of reality represented.

I realize your passion to acknowledge the strength of women. But, sincerely,...this statue perfectly reflected our strength at that time.

It perfectly manifests everything that we should embrace,...as women.

Making a printout of those minutes to read offline. Just want you to know that you've piqued my curiousity concerning the funding for that statue. After doing some reading, I might just do a bit of nosing around. 'nuff for now.

Be good. Take care. Don't take any wooden nickels. Look both ways. Keep your chin up. Hang in there. And . . . all like that.

I'll give you that ... just like the tribute. Good luck and thanks for the excellent exchange of ideas. EP

It does look a lot like Lynndie England.

was built like a fire plug. She did not have this models slender waist line. :P

www.grafwv.com/Features/story/fea1013_21200515654.asp

above. She looks great! Slim waisted and the arms aren't bulky. She's beautiful and an excellent body of a healthy Army woman.

What's up. Does this woman look UN-feminine to anyone here?

Really, most of us would die for such a slim (svelte even!) waistline.

Gee! It must be the fatigues, you think?

In fact, she looks alot like I did, during Air Force basic training way back in February, 1977, except back then we wore "women's" fatigues.

Sheila, a proud AF veteran (77-81)

comfy because they were cut for a woman's build. I can't speak for WV women vets, but I honestly think that statue would have been a beautiful tribute to them. Such a waste! Maybe a state in the Midwest (my old stompin' grounds) will purchase the rest of the project. I'd be proud of it in Pierre, South Dakota. To me, she looks in shape and is a perfect example of both femininity and inner strength. Again, I think it's a damn shame. :(

However, as a WV native I'm not surprised. This is a state where significant portions of the church-going population subscribe to faiths where women aren't allowed to wear pants or cut their hair above their shoulders because it's a sin for a woman to look like a man.

:eyes:

polling the women vets. Wonder how the questions were worded and how EXACTLY the polling results were tabulated.

On second thought, I have absolutely no problem if they (WVVC) wishes to construct "a living tribute garden" instead for the WV vets ... with ONE very important wrinkle: All the remaining money ($200,000 - $60,000) that was originally allocated to this project ... yep all $140,000 be put into it's construction.

Now that's going to be one EXCELLENT garden with many rows of orchids. :evilgrin:

Please,...please,...it actually reflects a strength at that point in history.

Oh, please do not attack this one.

Please.

Sheesh, these people have some serious hangups with gender roles. Guess they want everyone to know 'who the man is.'