Have you ever noticed how Pugs use emotion rather than reason

to try and win arguments? In their undeserved arrogance, they belittle, slam, lie, infuriate, call names, intimidate -- just like a bully in the schoolyard who is TOO DUMB to reason with.

Take Hannity for example: everytime he about to lose an argument, he either calls his guest a name, talks over them, tells them he's not going to listen to them, or says something the likes of, "your father wears women's underwear."

O'Reilly is another example. His best weapon is his smug arrogance.
When all is lost, he simply says, "SHUT UP."

Whereas, you take a progressive talk show host like Ed Schults,
he listens to his callers... even if they are off their rockers.
He challenges their assumptions with REASON. When was the last
time you EVER saw a Republican use REASON to win an argument
rather than cheap, schoolyard bully tactics? I'd like to know.

That's why I just call them on their unchristian policies and walk away.

They have taken "free speech" and warped it into a justification for their "hate speech",...taken our tolerance and wielded it into support for their abuses,...taken our reasoning and split issues into ONLY two dimensions,...manipulated our empathy by "pretending" to be "victims",...controlled opposition via faux moral superiority.

Why the hell are we allowing these "evil" people walk all over us?

:bounce:

They are exceeding all boundaries and manipulating us to help them.

Geez.

as well. That's why I have stopped talking to them completely. You cannot really "debate" people who won't reason. They also try to frame every political issue in a personal way.

You just have to stand up to them til they back down.

They see reason as the opposite of faith. When they doubt, they feel they are being unfaithful.

Then add in the ones who lie, who know they lie, yet fool themselves into believing that same lie. Same as the 'doublethink' described by Orwell.

What's curious is that many on the right think they are returning to an older pre-Enlightment way of thinking (more 'godly'). However, the 'subjectivist reductionism' of believing that they make their own realities (through sheer faith and willpower, no doubt), denying all facts to the contrary and believing known lies, is really a modern mindset.

While the medieval mind would come up with all sorts of faith-based explanations for when bad things happen, it rarely tried to entirely deny that the bad things were happening like the current right wing crowd. They might blame a plague on witches, but they wouldn't deny that the plague existed.

Even if it's lies that you are believing.

you both get dirty, but he likes it.

reminds me of a great bumper sticker I've seen: Get born again, it's easier than growing up.

Julie

That's funny. I'm Christian and found that very humerous because I know it's so true for a lot of people!

Perfect! :thumbsup:

Honestly, the Right seems to be dominated by two sentiments; Greed and Fear (from which their hatred grows). Every hardcore RWer I've known is under the impression that his rights should supercede everyone else's "just because" ("the government can take your land if I get to profit from it somehow, but they had better not step on my landowner's rights"!), and that the dark people/ foreigners / "liberals" or whoever their perceived enemy is of the moment is out to get them 24/7. Greedy, ego-centric, thumb-sucking bed wetters; that about sums up the Right for me!

and it's disgusting. The republicans are bullies. On this Christian board I'm debating with people on gay marriage and trying to get someone to give me an argument for not having gay marriage without using the Bible. Nobody has so far. :eyes: I'm trying to tell them how not everybody believes in the same thing they (and I) do but they just don't get it. And these talk show host's don't help either with everything. They're out to be the victims when they aren't!

to all who disagree with them, and especially to those who begin to question them.

They present this alternative reality that they've constructed, then when anyone questions it, they demonize the questioners.

Before I realized what was happening to us all, I'd think, "The world isn't making sense anymore, but I seem to be the only one who thinks like this. There must be something wrong with ME."

Think of all the times when whistleblowers, those who give congressional testimony on behalf of the poor, people who voice moderate-to-liberal opinion or just plain FACTS that we know are true, it's often met with a condescending attitude, lies, demonization, you name it.

Imagine what it must be like to have been sexually or physically abused and have other people dismiss it out of hand or refuse to believe the truth. Even worse yet is when the abused dares to speak out and people then turn on them for doing so.

When RWers can't argue against the facts and attack PERSONALLY those who voice opposing opinions (with name-calling and denying what is OBVIOUSLY true), there is something sick about that.

I don't know if any of that makes sense, but I've been thinking a lot about how really EVIL all this divisiveness, propaganda and doublespeak is and how BULLYING and ABUSIVE it is.

This administration (and all those who have helped it come to power) are not only criminal and morally bankrupt, they've done lots of psychological damage to massive numbers of human beings who know or want to know the truth. And they've taught another generation or two how to perpetuate their abusive ways.

It seems like each new generation finds a way to do it better. Whatever "it" may be. In this case we are talking abuse of a population. The guys currently in office aka The Bush* Cabal do it fairly well although they are a bit of bumblers. The new crop will become quite good at "Population control". It is the main crime of this Cabal. Teaching the young that Crime and Abuse Pays "Big Time"

The contrast between Ed Schultz and Sean Hannity is amazing, and I'm not even talking about political beliefs. I listen to Schultz in my car during lunch, then go back to work where Hannity is on the radio. (The department I work is pretty progressive, but we can't get 1150 inside the building. We listen to Hannity and ridicule him.) It's like going from hearing a real person to hearing a silly cartoon character! Ed Schultz talks to his audience like they are intelligent people who can make their own decisions. Hannity seems to be trying to manipulate his audience, and it seems so transparent to me.

The right wing goes after people's emotions while progressives win people over with logic and reason. People that are influenced by right wing radio tend to just look at things on the surface, while progressives dig deeper to get the real story.

And you're exactly right.

They're the party of hysterics, and we're the party of reason.

Fer example, one of the arguments used by people trying to get the theory of evolution of schools is "Do you want to think you were descended from apes?!"

guess what?

since they can't win an honest debate.

Lawyers have a saying:

If you can't pound the facts, pound the law.

If you can't pound the law, pound the table.

Yes, indeed. Rethugs have no hearts or functioning brains.

They pound their absolute "moral rules" and use that as their defense because this allows them to avoid any honest, ethical reasoning. They have concocted a set of "moral rules" by twisting Bible quotes.

"Because the Bible tells me so."
"Abortion is murder."
"Gays are sinners."

Where is the ethical reasoning in those statements? There is none. It's preconventional reasoning. Black and white thinking DISREGARDS all of the gray areas. That is dishonesty by omission.

With a result of painting one side evil and one side saint.
I've heard plenty of boorish liberals and polite conservatives. (CNN bow-tie boy is grating but polite).

that the repugs have no facts to support a reasoned logical approach to defending their policies. Reasoned debate is a non-starter for them.

big fat fucking lies. Brazen, undiluted, horseshit falsehoods said with a straight face and every expectation that they will never, NEVER be called upon their personal lack of integrety.

The emeotional argument was used in the supremecourt last week by the right to defend the placement of the ten commandments in a public building. "Because it's always been that way" and "If the atheists don't like it, they can look away when they see it" were two examples in the highest court in the land last week, one of those uttered by scalia himself.

Apparently, he is IGNORING logical reasoning with that statement. That's what they do so they can continue to LIE.

List of Fallacious Arguments

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

I'm becoming an "Ed head" - shame on me! :D

I'm as bad as one of them - I get upset if I miss his show.

He does NOT screen his calls and he listens to the nut bags from both ends of the spectrum. He rarely comments on these "fringe" issues because he knows the arguments that matter are in the middle... Good philosophy in my opinion...

'There you Democrats go again.
Just because you repeat something, over and over again, doesn't make it true.'

All the while, repeating their lies over and over again!

If you are aware on how the Pugs manipulate people, it will help
save your sanity because you will see past their games.

that Christ pointed out that "the children of this World are wiser afer their fashion than the children of Light".

The neocons know that their motivation and purposes are malign (or rather viewed as malign by others, since they have no moral compass, themselves) and could never be supported by reasonable arguments; so, they do the logical thing, bluster, declaim, harangue, vilify, use every emotional trick. You've seen how inept they are at reasoning on these threads.

But emotion is also a thing of the heart, of the will, although, of course, as Christ also pointed out, not necessariy meritorious for that. The evil in us issues not out of our digestive system but out of our hearts.

On the other hand, the DLC... what can you say about them...? When they lost their hearts, they also lost their minds and souls. Wouldn't want to appear adversarial now, would we? Or abrasive? Oh my!"

"When the salt loses its savour, what can be done to restore it? It is good for nothing, but to be thrown away and trodden underfoot by men". I hope those still with souls realise that the bloggosphere funding they received this time round will be unlikely to be other than a historical blip, if they continue to favour the boll-weevils in their midst to the detriment of their current bloggosphere supporters and their heroes.

Let's hope the, at best, anodyne-looking, composition of the DLC-funded group investigating the Ohio election, serves the purpose it was designed for: to investigate the election fraud, which clearly took place, and to reveal the extent of it, in a scholarly dispassionate way; without laying themsleves open to the Stockholm syndrome someone referred to the other day - supine before the truculence, bullying and wailing that will surely tried by the neocons.

to say so, BigBearJohn.

The thing is, politics is not an academic exercise, least of all in the USA. It is profoundly adversarial, and would be, even if it were conducted honourably. Personally, I don't believe in treading on egg-shells with the neocons, who seem to be hyperactive children.

You remember what Churchill said about their political role-models? They're either at your feet or at your throat. If you fight them, head on, you're going to get one or the other. But, accordingly, you're going to have them at your feet or let them know they've been in a bundle. Instead of being at the wrong end of an endless kicking. What's the point of that, unless you're a boll-weevil on the take.

This investigation, after all, is the bottom line. If they screw that up - strange to have it directed and managed by a confidante of Rove -it seems to me you'll have to wait until they've dug a big enough hole to swallow them up, whatever the Democratics do.

Well, that could well be quite soon. But maybe not. And in any case, even in the next scenario, they'll need to have shown they have guts and teeth enough to totally dominate an injured and discredited Republican party (who would still kick the Democrats' butts, on current Democratic form). At least until the system is restored to rude health. I hope, though, that the investigation looks into the reported bipartisan fraud to keep other aspiring parties marginalised.

It's a fact that we become more emotional as we age. This is something I learned about in studying sales techniques.

in the midst of a spiritual warfare of unimaginable ferocity and dimensions. Politics is just one of its more obvious manifestations, and as people get older, unless they are insulated by wealth, this will be borne in upon them, more and more, even if they don't make the spiritual connection. The emotion will ensue from the build-up of frustration and rage, just from reading the daily papers!

The peace of the graveyard is worth diddly squat, the peace after a war well-fought and won, is the only true peace we can ever know. But what a peace that will be. As well as fulfilment, joy and every other blessing. Forget the sweet reason of ivory tower academics. They are priceless, of course, for such things as proving electoral fraud and even in partisan politics, when wedded to conviction, passion and mettle. But reason without passion makes no sense in politics because the welfare of millions, if not their very lives, are at stake, and power, like money (unless inherited or gifted), is only achieved in this world by those who WANT it strongly enough, whether for good purposes or for bad.

How can Democrats hope to reason with the neocons, when they don't even share the same basic assumptions - which incidentally, are the province of the heart, since they encompass so many of the deepest truths concerning human affairs (whether accepted or rejected) that unaided reason is not designed to synthesise and understand such a medley of issues. It is the intuitions of our hearts that define us spiritually.

when trying to persuade the masses. An intellectual approach should not even be tried, because it will be recieved by such a small amount of people, that it's not even worth the time. Hitler really was 'genious' when it came to knowing how to manipulate the masses, and the cons are definitely following his playbook to the letter.

well-said. Very much to the point. Hit the nail on the head.

Why bother analyzing their irrationality?

But I already know this enemy, and I'm done listening to the traitorous fucking pieces of shit. It's time for them to listen.

Ray Taliafero. Garafalo is very good at the intellectual debate.

they are the most candy a$$ punks i ever heard and wouldn't make it a day on the streets of philly.

peace

RWW: If we hadn't invaded Iraq, them ragheads would have over-run us, all of them shitheads, and we'd all be wearing burkas now.

Me: Hussein was secular...that means non-religious. He oppressed the religious fanatics.

RWW: Yeah so we had to invade Iraq and free them.

Me: Free the religious fanatics Hussein kept oppressed...the same Iraqis you just said would have over-run us and made us all wear burkas?

RWW: You think they don't deserve to be liberated?

Me: So they can go ahead now they're no longer oppressed by Hussein and over-run America and make us all wear burkas?

RWW: If them ragheads tried that we'd nuke them all, glass city!

Me: So then wasn't it a bad idea to "liberate" them when all they want to do, according to you, is over-run us and make us all wear burkas?

RWW: You're a real stupid c*** f*cking c*** liberal just hate is all you f*cking c***s know.

And the RWW declared his "win" over me by his "incredible smack-down".

No, you can't reason with those who have no reasoning capabilities.

what else is new?

it is akin to the schism that led to the decline of islamic thinking in the 12th century when the islamic intellectual tradition began turning its back on rationaism for mysticism.

They use emotive language as a way to divert from the facts. They mock, use anger, use fear invoking ideas...

Any good speaker employs some emotive language, but the Repukes use overly emotive language as a diversion tactic.

They also love to appeal to a false authority, like the Bible, televangelists or junk Scientists who skew the research.