A few words about "Gay Rights"

It's NOT "Gay" rights...it's Human Rights. It's Civil Rights. The only thing the GLBT community wants is their FULL citizenship...their full civil rights as a citizen. To be recognized as a citizen of America, with all the rights and privileges that entails. Nothing "special" about that.

The only people wanting "special" rights and privileges are those who would deny others the same rights they enjoy. You don't sell out another person's civil rights. You just don't do it.

And don't bore me with "but felons don't have full rights"....Are you equating being Gay or Lesbian with being a criminal? I certainly hope not. (Yes, that was said to me)

And just a FYI,"Gay" marriage (or whatever term you're comfortable with...except the rude bigoted ones) is not a separate issue from Civil Rights. It's the exact same damn issue.

Thanks for the rant.

Naturally, I only speak for myself. In case anyone decides I'm trying to speak for them.

It's so interesting to see folks think we should put this on the back burner. Keep others down if need be, that'll get us ahead. Sure.

we only become the thing we used to oppose.

Why is it that Americans have such a problem with Human Rights issues?
Whether it be the part of Human Rights called gay rights, civil rights, womens rights, workers right, students rights, children's rights, etc, you get the picture.
Too many Americans focus on fighting their part of the battle for rights and turn their heads when it is another "group" fighting for their rights. DAMN-IT, WE ARE ALL ONE GROUP!!! We are all brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and sons and daughters to each other. Not just as Americans, but also as citizens of the world. We all drink the same water. We all breathe the same air.
We all win when any of us win and we all lose when any of us lose.
I know many fellow union members who are sexist, racist or bigoted about gays. I cannot understand how they live with themselves and their ignorance.
If we do anything through this website at all, getting people to recognize our commonality is what I feel most strongly about.

My SO and I will be celebrating 18 years together in June.

TAKE THAT all you homophobes out there!

:toast:

They love to promote the idea that equal rights for all citizens is really a question of 'special privilidge' for a minority.

The same reasoning was used to enforce Jim Crowe, and deny women the vote.

Anybody who says differently is a liar.

I just felt the need to say it again. :)

Truth has away of clearing away the bullshit.

I had just reached my limit this early AM for BS and needed to vent. (It's almost 2 AM here)

:)

living in Germany. :)

I've thought that. But never heard it.

Makes sense. It takes the "special interest group" thing off the issue.

So where's the GBLT on this?

On those who would deny full rights to others. THEY are the ones who want the special rights...

We've always considered our rights 'human rights issues' but a good number of progressives until recently have considered our rights and survival as less important than other human rights issues. We seemed frivolous and undesirable. Thank god things are finally changing.

The Repubs are good at this labeling thing.

"Human right's" just cuts to the core.

republicans are definitely not very responsible to 'human rights' issues either.

Notice, the most mainstream gay rights organization for the past what? 20 years? Has been called the HRC... the Human Rights Campaign.

But maybe things would have been even WORSE had the group been called the "Gay Rights Campaign". :shrug:

It was particularly distressing afer the election to see people warming to the idea of throwing gay rights aside to presumably win a few votes.

There is still an element in the party, and here on DU, who spread the idea that this is a big tent and if you demand that our representatives stand up for inalienable human rights, which are for everyone because they are inalienable, you are costing us "votes."

human is somehow a good thing.

But it's ok. It's the cost of doing business. Our entire platform costs us votes somewhere or another.

It's kinda funny. Fighting for the "Black (Right to) Vote" cost the Democratic party 40 years ago.

And if you speak like that, you're welcome to speak for me.

Sometimes, I just hafta rant. :)

They say "Pro-abortion" for those who just want pregnant women to make their own decisions.
They say "Uppity Nigger" for any black person that just wants equal rights.
They say "Commie Traitor" to anyone who detests war.

s o - i s - i t - s o - s u r p r i s i n g - that:
They say "Special rights" for any gay person that just want to be an American.

Well, fuck them and their tactics too.

I just want the same rights as other people. I want to be able to buy a house with my girlfriend. I want to be able to leave it with her if I should die. I want to be able to take her out of the country with me if I get a job overseas. I want to be able to visit her in the hospital.

For example, right now we live in New York. Her job requires her to live alone in a dormitory and take care of students so we can't have a "domestic partnership" because you have to share the same space to get the benefits. Fine. But then, here's an example of how the laws are 'separate and unequal'. Because there are DPs in NYC, I can put her on my health insurance and other benefits, but they are considered 'personal income' to me. So I must pay taxes on the benefits that she gets. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I live in a place where at least a DP is an option.

I just want to leave a happy life with the love of my life. Is that a right that straight people don't have?

Mostly it baffles me that people fall for it....

Wanting your full civil rights is NOT the same as desiring a special right at all...but neo-cons spin it that way to promote division and play to people's ignorance and prejudices. It works too.

I've always felt that way, but your post, with those words, "Gay Rights" in quotes, really hit me.

They are NOT "Gay Rights." They are "Human Rights."


Thank you for such an excellent post!!

:hi:

and Thank you!!!!

This gay man thanks you for articulating this perfectly.

T

and Thank you! :)

...was unresponsive to / unsupportive of the thread about the findings of Rep. Meehan's GAO report and his pending bill to eliminate DADT?

One post started Monday in GENERAL sank into the archives immediately.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1632718 has received some attention, but not much, considering its content.

I go in that forum a lot and I didn't see the thread. But I might not respond because I'm ignorant about the issue you're raising.

I read the report and said a big "Duh!"....but I also had a "I'll wait and see" attitude.

Sometimes, people read articles and digest them internally...without responding to the thread.

If I understand it correctly, a soldier cannot be involutarily discharged due to their sexual orientation. On the other hand, the only reason the military is taking this step is because they need all the help they can get recruiting and retaining people. So they're basically doing a good thing, but for the wrong reason. Either way, it's a win for equality.

..."the only reason the military is taking this step is because they need all the help they can get recruiting and retaining people."

DADT should be over-turned as a policy.

Gays cannot marry one another? Its not in there. Why else would haters need to "amend" the constitution to prevent people who love each other from getting married? And why are pedophiles and those who commit incest in red states allowed to practice with impunity? Because red state bush supporters hate homosexuals. And they hate homosexuals in the name of Jesus Christ. Thanks for the post and keep poking the beast.

I think it's name of Paul, as in the Book of Romans.

I've googled debates on that subject between fundies and decent Christians. It's rough.

:)

If marriage is a religious institution, then why is it that Athiests and Agnostics can marry? They don't require religious assertion to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage...

If you're married in a church, but have no marriage license; guess what? You're not legaly married.

Marriage is a SECULAR institution, with religious overtones. Duh.

a dirty word these days.

It's a very disturbing trend. There's no room for complacency. Liberals need to be as firm in our convictions on human rights as fundamentalists are in their convictions against our rights. I truly believe that our country is more libertarian-minded when it comes to personal freedoms than the media and the GOP would have us believe.

Okay now that I've got your attention... ;) These are two RW talking points that make ZERO sense to me. Let's explore shall we?

I think the straight conservative folks have an issue with the term in psychology called 'projecting'...

They say gays want 'special rights' but what we really just want the plain ol' unspecial rights that they already have. We want really boring, logistical crap. Like, say, job security. Hospital visitation rights. The right not to be beaten to death or raped. Little things like that...

And then they say that we 'recruit'. Well let me tell you. I don't know any gay schools that make straight kids 'act gay'. I don't know of any special camps where teary-eyed gay parents can send their 'openly straight' kids for 're-education.' I've never heard of the 'ex-straight' movement.

We don't have Valentine's Day ads on TV showing transsexuals giving their intersexed partners glamorous gifts in slow motion with tears in their eyes.

In fact, we're not really in commercials at all. Although we have appeared in some 'after-school specials' with excessive warning labels on them.

We don't feel threatened by straight love. In fact, we like it when straights get laid. They're nicer to us.

If we as GLBT adults try to help kids who are gay or trans, we're considered 'recruiters.' Meanwhile, they are lost and alone. According to the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force 40% of homeless kids are GLBT. They're 1/3 of the suicides. They hear on average 25 slurs against them per day. Check out this quote from the Task Force: "A five-year study by the Safe Schools Coalition of Washington State, described in this report, documented 111 incidents of anti-LGBT violence in 73 schools. These included eight gang rapes in which a total of 11 students were molested, two of them sixth graders.

This is what right wingers want to cut funding to: government money being used to stop studies that investigate how to help gang-raped sixth graders.

Thank you!!! :)

Hi Solly :hi:

I wish you were still in Kansas, we could have used your attitude last Tuesday here in Topeka.

The most difficult thing we dealt with were those talking points put out by the RW and the churches. It comes down simply to one thing and one thing only. Equal rights are not special rights.

I miss Kansas (aspects of it-the hills especially) :)

I got my fill of Phelps and his gaggle of dingleberries while in Kansas. They were protesting outside a church in Topeka one Sunday. I had gone for the Christianizing of my friend's baby.

Several times I ran into them on post. They had somehow got on post and were handing out their leaflets of hate. Blech!

You are so correct! "Equal rights are not special rights."

especially since we beat Fred and his daughter also lost her race. I miss knowing you are over there just to the west of me. I had always hoped we could get together. I bet Germany is nice though. My only experience there was in the airport in Frankfort.

Germany is nice. I'm enjoying myself. Now if only the snow would ever fully melt...

or to brag too much but we hit 70 today. :shrug: They are prediciting snow with highs of 34 next week, typical spring in Kansas. The hills should be greening up now and the burning has started. Best time of the year.

it's just so green....beautiful!

70, huh? Show off! :)

I well remember the crazy weather....warm one week...snowing and cold the next!

Just over the last few days, as the snow has been steadily melting, a whiff of spring touched the air.....but I'm told it could snow again... damn! lol

Phelps is planning on coming to Plattsburgh NY (they've called our churches in Plattsburgh "sodomite whorehouses") to picket during our Mayor's Cup (a 10-day family festival) this year because our mayor is openly gay and because we're so close to the Canadian border. Gay marriages have been performed in Canada and Fred Phelps is banned from ever returning to Canada for burning their flag. Phelps is so full of hate it's scary.

We've got a positive and constructive idea to discourage Phelps from picketing in Plattsburgh. It's a pledge drive for people to pledge money to a charity FOR EVERY MINUTE PHELPS AND ANY OTHER WBC MEMBERS PICKETS IN PLATTSBURGH. In this way, the longer Phelps and other WBC members stay to spew hate, the more money will be raised for the exact causes they picket against!

Would you check out this web site? It's called http://www.plattsburghforpeace.com/. If you like it, would you consider passing it along to anyone and everyone you can think of?

Thanks for "listening"!
Plattsburgh For Peace

Democrats need to start standing up for this issue instead of trying to be 'politically correct'.

:hi:

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Everything you say is correct. This not a gay issue. It is an issue of the RW trying to deny basic human rights to a group of people.

Thanks!

.... and the real battle is to not let the pukes frame the issue of equal rights for gays as a "gay rights" issue.

But they have. And we let them do it.

Allowing the right wing to frame the debate has costs us greatly....and we have allowed it.

EQUAL RIGHTS ARE NOT SPECIAL RIGHTS OR A 'WEDGE ISSUE.'

and Thank you!

I used to be slightly homophobic. Not raving lunatic but wary. Then my company started doing some work for the GLBT community and since I was the most liberal person at my job, I got volunteered to do the shows. (GLBT Film Festival and Gay Pride Festival in Denver) What a terrific bunch of people. The film festival was a blast (I'm a film buff) and the Pride Fest was just unbelievable. I made new friends, and got some help with how to deal with my 10 year old who is showing gay tendencies. I'm actually looking forward to the events again this year, I'll be the projectionist at the Film Fest and I'll be the sound technician at the Drag queen stage at the pride fest. Where else can a hetero guy get hit on by Madonna, Cher and Diana Ross all in one day. If there are any GBLT's from Denver here look me up at one of those events this year!!!!!!!!!!

Equal rights....it's a beautiful song. Now if only more people knew the tune...

and I'll roll that rock up the mountain forever...I can endure the struggle.

GAY RIGHTS is CIVIL RIGHTS?

HOW DARE YOU TRY TO INFRINGE ON MY SPECIALNESS AS THE PERSECUTED!!!

NO one has EVER has it as hard as WE (insert your own particular persecuted minority) have, AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT!!!!

(ok, i'll quit screaming. it's just that it makes me want to scream so much....)

:)

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I saw that.

I think quid pro quo is a fair question for those who advocate denying other people their civil rights.

The point isn't that I would take their rights from them...but for them to see just what they are expecting of others. Make it personal for them....since empathy and sympathy isn't working...maybe self interests will.

It infuriates me, the fact that my life is deemed less important. I know straight white males who will not back down and sell us all out, so I see no excuse for these supremists.

being perpetrated by the "religious" impersonaters is the concept that they alone deserve special rights. When you think about it, there is nothing immutable about being a Southern Baptist, for example...people CHOOSE that lifestyle. And yet the freedom to be protected for what you believe is one of the cornerstones of American liberty.

To them, that freedom is only sustained if it allows them the right to persecute or deny the same freedom to others, even if the chance of their situation being an immutable characteristic is far greater than a chosen religious belief. Isn't it ironic that all of the other protected classes of Americans weren't afforded constitutional protections until much later than religious groups?

Of course this is an issue of human rights. Just as religious impersonaters contend they need "special rights" to discriminate according to their fluid beliefs (meaning, to institutionalize bigotry under the guise of commitment to nothing more than chosen religious "belief") they also demand the rest of society follow suit - and that is where they are the most dangerous. You can tell just from their behavior - try to discriminate or exclude them from something, and you'll hear them screaming religious persecution so fast that you'd wonder why they aren't more tolerant of others using their same tactics.

Just once, I'd like to see some group get the balls to challenge these pseudo-christians in that manner - to deny them a job or housing or access to an event and use their same arguments as a reason. After all, why shouldn't MY deeply held spiritual beliefs entitle me to exclude THEM based on my choice to not recognize them as truly religious because of their persecuting behavior?

:)

And kick! :)