Gannon Wrinkles, Part 8

Wow...my eyes are bleeding! TMI!!! I vote to keep this thread at 100 posts. I'm a dizzy dame right about now! Yikes! I'm about ready to call it a night. Thought I'd pass the baton...

THE TRUTH IS OUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON! Peace!


Here are the previous threads...


#6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

#5:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

#4:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

#3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

#2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

#1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...
******************************


Edit: Sorry. My mind's a wet noodle right about now!! :crazy:

And what cereal do I need to buy to get mine?

#6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#5:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#4:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
******************************

No decoder ring necessary. However, if I had my choice, it would be Cocoa Puffs!!!! Peace!

On edit: sorry, my husband has gone to bed, my dog won't look at me, the cats are sneering.

But, hey, this seemed important :hi:

I've got a wife that now thinks I'm crazy.

My doggie, Zelda, thank goodness, runs over to comfort her Pa. As I watch the threads, she nuzzles my leg.

OK she's still loyal. But the wife? She's a liberal from England and thinks I've gone over the edge. She accused me of being a nut tonight.

I'm in the middle of reading DeCamps Franklin book.

I lived in Nebraska, about 20 years. I knew a bunch of those people (in the book). Almost every time I turn a page, it's another person I knew. If, I can coin a word, Frankly it scares the shit out of me.

I knew Citron, the Harvey's etc. I didn't know they were on the dark side. They seemed like nice people.

This is like Rosemary's Baby or the Manchurian Candidate

I am now officially having nighmares.

can you please edit your post and include the links to the other wrinkle threads? pweez?

:eyes:

:(

i've been really sick, and i just slept from 6pm up until right about now :(

:cry: :nopity:

but take your various flu viruses to the lounge.

This thread is not about your sniffles!

:-(

that hurts :cry:

The other poster asked Faye what was wrong and she answered her.:spank:

What is the first date we have on JDG?

Hey there...are your eyes bleeding yet? I took a break -guess it wasn't long enough. I think I saw a timeline in the subject area!

http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

Edited to add link

:hi:

There are a lot of people here who are stakeholders.

What about we make a date for tomorrow, when we've had some rest?

oops. LOL was gonna say we are sharper with sleep. And erased text. Case in point. :crazy:

http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com /

I'm checking out. I'll check in first thing in the a.m. Peace! Sleep well!


Try and keep the ball rolling...

"Why shouldn't fact be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense."
—Mark Twain

Have any attempts been made to contact those other fellows in the Fairview High golf team photos?

For example, a Jerry Stubenhofer was on the golf team with Jeff Guckert for at least two years in a row. Now, a Gerald J. Stubenhofer practices law in Pittsburgh. His place of birth is near Fairview High and his college graduation year places him in the same age group as the golf team students of 1987.

1986 golf team http://www.iu5.org/fsd/team/1986.htm
1987 golf team http://www.iu5.org/fsd/team/1987.htm
Gerald Stubenhofer's professional bio: http://www.mcguirewoods.com/lawyers/index/Gerald_J_Stubenhofer_Jr.asp

"Although the team lost independent matches to Cathedral Prep, their last county loss was in 1983 against North East."

Tom Ridge

The Pizza Bomber

Gitmo Honcho General Michael Dunleavy

and now...

GUCKERT? ? ?

What's in that Lake Erie water?

LOL

we spelled it with three 'E's... Eerie, PA

(note: my life is complete, I've posted on a wrinkle thread. I can rest now)

Several of them...I know you have cause I have seen it happen.

and, yeah, maybe I did but only when they were under 150 posts... too hard on this old dial-up (which ENDS next week! broadband is on the way!!!)

if you are getting cable modem... www.vonage.com tell them I sent you and I get 2 months of service free.

Andy

According to the information (from the professor at WCU), Guckert went to Conneaut Lake High School in PA.

a Jim Guckert who went to Conneut Lake High School from 1971-1975. He is listed at Classmates.com. You can do a search and his name will come up.

is this all about???? High school golf in 1987.

The proffessor says that James G. graduated college in 1980. Gannon indicates TKE, and his name is all over the alumni pages. Seems to be his picture.

Gannon says his "given" name on his driver's license is James. He showed his license to the press room and to Campbell Brown.

What is causing us to look at a JEFF Guckert?

:shrug:

my ears are clogged or something, i can't hear anything!!! but my chest doesn't hurt anymore. still coughing up some lungs and getting the sweats, etc. though.

fun fun fun :nopity:

thanks for asking :hi: :hug:

B-)

:hi:

i definately hit the worst of it yesterday, it can only get better :hi:

colorado...information given by paul bonacci approx july 1991,
johnny gosch was taken to colorado to a farm and given a new "family"
johnny tried to run away at one time, and then had his buttocks branded like cattle..bonacci drew a picture of the branding for an investigator roy stephens.

pgs 232& 233 the franklin-cover up book!

the guy bonacci said was doing alot of the kidnappings name was emilio..

bonacci said the man involved in johnny gosch's kidnapping's name was emilio...he sold alot of the kids in las vegas, and some in toronto

bonacci said he ran into emilio again in 1986 in Buena Vista colorado and at that time , bonacci saw johnny gosch once again!!

bonacci also told the investigator stephens of pedopehlia and ritualistic abuse in...

jordan minnesota, and bakersfield calif

kathleen morris in star tribune paper minn. nov 18th 1983 began to prosecute the largest adult - juvenile case ring in minn history!


morris indicted the ring leader 26 yr old james rud on 108 counts of child abuse..
his parents were also indicted
alvin and rosemary rud and 17yr old brother also indicted

now listening to noreen last june i believe i remember her saying johnny told her he ran away and went to and stayed on indian reservations..and it was either minnesota or wisconsin..does anyone else remember??


fly

The 1986 legend lists him as Jeff; the 1987 only as "J". But, why would he then become "Jim". Is Jeff to hard to pronounce?

I'll keep asking these silly little questions because inconsistencies not only bug me, they can be helpful.


Peace.


TBO;24/7

here are the pics. I can't see well enough to determine if the tall blond boy is Gannon/guckert


{Top Left to Right) Coach Paulson, B. Beeby, C. Adamski, T. Halmi, J. Stubenhofer, J. Dauphine, N. Loeslin, C. Smith, D. Tyler, J. Guckert, (Bottom l-r) P. Parris, R. Chase, M. Zito, T. Hetz, C.Spath, J. Murray,T. Kuvshinikov

THAT IS NOT FUCKING HIM!!! LOL! it's not Gosch, it's not Gannon, i don't know who it is but he looks like NONE OF THE OTHER PICS. nothing like them at all. i wish people would stop posting that pic!!!!

sorry for rant i am sick and this pisseed me off!!!!!

I posted the pic because we need to eliminate this person. I'm sorry you are sick, hope you feel better soon.

gosh and its no jimmyjeff!!

not even close..amd we have been down this road already and discounted it entirely!

thats why i hate people restarting these threads so many times..because its take two steps forward and 5 backwards...

fly

I can see much better after posting the first pic's here



Front row: Matt Zito, Jeff Dauphinee, Pete Burton, Jerry Stubenhofer, RC Chase, Chris Spath, Row2 Mike McGuire, Jeff Guckert, Pat Paris, Neil Loeslein, Jim Murray, Dave Spath, TJ Hetz, Dave Tyler, Korac Timon, Brianna Beeby, Coach Paulson

If you read my first post you'll know why I posted the pics. I'm sorry if I have offended you all by posting them.. If it bothers you so much have the mod delete it.

I'll go find something else to ocupy my time.. I was only trying to help

maybe me and troubleinwinter are just bein' biatches. sorry!!!

go read the other treads first..we have been down this path too many times now...and this has been discussed et nauseam and then it just sets us back ..and some of us end up repeating all the same stuff ..and honestly many here have put in incredible hours working this story...and it gets tiring going backwards...

we dont mean to jump you..but please go back and read some of the other threads..it helps understand where we are right now.

we dont mean to be snippy....just gets a little frustrating when we have to keep going backwards to move forwards!!

please take no offence.

fly

...anyone had attempted to contact any of the fellow golf team members in those 1986 and 1987 Fairview High photos (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3222750&mesg_id=3222928). And, no, I haven't read all of the seven other threads on this.

But even if that's not Jeff Gannon/Jim Guckert in the golf team photos, is it possible that it's his brother? I recall that he complained that his mother and brother had been harassed. And there is a June Gucket listed in Conneaut Lake, PA. Could that be his mother?

Nonny did a blow-up and side by side comparison of the 1987 Fairview High golf team Guckert and the Guckert of today here:



I see a resemblance but not a dead-on match: the proximity of the eyes to each other, the eyebrows, the nose, and the ears, all seem to be pretty close matches.

Maybe Jerry Stubenhofer knows. Maybe he doesn't. I'm just asking.

But in post #71, s/he says to read the other threads. That is a good thing because you asked if June Guckert could be Gannon's mom. It is discussed in those threads. But the answer is we don't know for sure. A poster listed her address but was deleted in case someone tried to contact her. I still don't know why the poster with 2 posts gave that personal information but warned everyone not to contact her. :crazy:

Since we still don't know who he really is.

let's stick with what we DO have, which still isn't much, JAMES GUCKERT, JEFF GANNON, JOHNNY GOSCH.

THERE IS NO ROOM JEFF GUCKERTS, JAMES GOSCH'S, JACK GREENS OR JOE GAZOOKAS!!!!!

can you isolate blowup and clean up that photo for comparison?

it looks nothing like him except for the chin, SLIGHTLY.

seriously.

&*@%#^%@^#%^@*%^#@*

What a good idea Andy! Here is my try.

The golfer is the top --- very pixelated --- eyes are straight across.

Gannon from his website (flipped for same direction) --- eyes slant down.

I don't think they are a match.

Will you do this same thing with the facial features of JGSr. to bulldog Gannon and NG - actually with the lips and chins too? Is that asking too much?

I think you are a master of the photo comparisons! Bless you!

:hug:

BTW - in response to your post back to me in #7 - I do wonder if the real JD Guckert from 1980 fell of the face of the earth and our boy stepped in to take his place. It is a scary notion and I will not be convinced that bulldog is the JD Guckert from 1980 until I see a photo. :scared:

Regarding the other post---

I can't get into the Ancestry Plus, Social Security death index until I go back to work on Mon. Some info is visible --- not all. All is important.
I entered the date of May 1957 for birth date http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3220309#3220341
Last name Guckert
Pennsylvania
and this is the list I came up with.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gsfn=&gsln=guckert&f9=&f8=May&f10=1957&f6=&f5=&f7=&f1=&f15=Pennsylvania&f14=&f13=&f12=&f20=&f0=&prox=1&db=ssdi&ti=0&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=&gst=&rank=1&submit.x=76&submit.y=13
Now I need someone that has died after 1980 (WCU graduation)
The second entry looks good -- John Guckert, died 1987, Allegheny, Pennsylvania

Back in Wrinkle 3 --- I was concerned about names -- John or James Guckert. Twice he had been referred tp as John Guckert.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3161296#3174888

1. "The sad and sordid tale of Jeff "Don’t Call Me John Guckert" Gannon is a final nail in the coffin, as far as I am concerned."
2. "I agree, in the press conferences, he was Jeff. But when he went through the guard shack -- he was John Guckert."

Anyway --- I think this entry in ancestry.com needs looking up.

That indeeds need checking into!

Thanks for the links and the hunt continues and the questions remain!

(Thanks for agreeing to try to do the facial comparisons with those other photos! Again, you are good!!! :yourock:)

Died 1983. Last residence unknown.

We know JD Guckert got a teaching certificate in 1980. But then he has some missing 16 years.

This James Guckert died in '83. That's the year following Johnny G's kidnapping. Seems as good a time as any to assume/assign a new identity.

:shrug:

Just about the time Mr Gucket magically appeared on the scene.

Gelliebeans referenced in Wrinkles thread #5, post #223.

Gelliebeans doesn't say where she got her info from.

If this is the James Guckert who's personal info may be being used by Guckert/Gannon, then it may be that we have two Jim Guckerts using the same TKE identity--the real Jim Guckert, and the Guckert/Gannon/possibly-Gosch person we all know and love. That might explain why none of the "real" Guckert's friends have come forward--the Jim Guckert they know is still around, and this "new" Jim Guckert would just be another guy with the same name. :shrug:

Hope today's a good day for you, healthwise. Peace, Brother Andy! :hi:

Oswald lost a from tooth as a boy. It is shown in a picture from his school days. The man that was arrested for shooting Kennedy had ALL HIS TEETH. As did the remains that were exhumed.

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/Tooth/Tooth.htm

Medical records say "Oswald" had his tonsils removed as a young boy. His military records show a bout of tonsillitis with...SWELLING OF HIS LEFT TONSIL.

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/Tonsillectomy/Tonsils.htm

A woman working in unemployment saw "Oswald" two times in a matter of a few months. Although very similar and almost seeming to be the same man she SWORE they were not. One was even taller.

A teacher and friend of Oswald's says he was NOTICEABLY shorter after a break.

This sound SO MUCH LIKE THIS with GANNON. We may need to REALLY START thinking outside the box.



These are the photos the government identified as Oswald.

There is a neat military looking fellow. He appears to have a narrower forehead and longer face then the commonly known Oswald. Yet their eyes are EXTREMELY similar.

Oswald repeatedly showed up in two places at once. He was seen several times in CA during the time he was overseas in the military.



http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/

....from that high school golf team photo as a basis not only for claiming who current day Gannon (Guckert) is, but also what the likely age of current day Gannon is, are most likely incorrect.

And, as several of us have noted, we have zero photographic evidence of any "Guckert" from his 'college/frat' years.

By the way, the obvious reason I asked why would a "Jeff Guckert" become a "James Guckert" upon entering college and joining TKE, was sort of a polite way of saying 'think about it' to those who portray the situation as 'solved' regarding some form of background info prior to 1980 on "Guckert."

Also, when folk post a statement, without links, that something has is a wrap at dKos or anywhere else, and someone else then spends more than an hour searching to find any basis of the claims and finds nothing, one can become a bit annoyed.

Cheers.

TBO;24/7

John Gosch Sr.
Jeff Gannon
I think the shape of the eyes are dead on.



John Gosch Sr.
Jeff Gannon
Eyes only




Noreen Gosch
Jeff Gannon (flipped)
This one is not so clear to me. Maybe Jeff needs to be surrounded with all that hair.

not at all like the eyes of the golfer and Sr.

NG has the thin upper lip and full bottom lip, the distinctive check bones and the prominent chin.

Nonny -- you are good! :toast:

All I can say is, the resemblences are remarkable! Without a photo of JDG from 1980 to compare to these photos I find it hard to dismiss the possible link between bulldog and johnny!

please?

anyone got pictures?

I go to bed for a few hours come back and there is a wrinkle thread 8?

:wow:

For another day. This subject continues to fascinate me. I would love it if at some point a definite link was made between Bush #1 and Bush #2 and the whole gay prostitutes in the White House story. It would finally bring down the Bush political dynasty, and expose them for the evildoers we all know they are.

Please note that the price of The Franklin Cover-Up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska has increased from $9.71 to $12.95 since you placed it in your Shopping Cart. Items in your cart will always reflect the most recent price displayed on their product detail pages.

º=º=º=º=º=º=º=º=º=º=
demand must be up

I have tried 3 times in the last year and was told each time it was coming, waited a couple months, then told it was not available. I checked last Sat. and a search showed it wasn't even there at all.
I tried to order it at Walden's last fall and was told out of print, try online rare and out of print books. Could Not find it anywhere. Couldn't find it overseas either, last fall. Even the Library of Congress said not there last year.(wasn't sure it was place to look, but thought would try) Libraries that had it listed as being on shelf, it was not there.

Now suddenly everyone can get it?!! WTF!!!

Also, just checked phone book for Erie Co., Pa - no listings for Guckert.

on edit> links not working for me, any suggestions?

another book dealer. Amazon was calling it rare, and would take several months, but a new copy was available promptly through an affiliated dealer.

Thank you for that. I put it as a subject because that is something we don't want others to miss.

Peace.


TBO;24/7

look to colorado..bonacci said gosch was taken to colorado and was given a " new family"

noreen gosch said in june interview that johnny told her he ran away and was in an indian reservation..or several either in minnesota or wisconsin or both ..i cant quite remember..i am looking up from her transcripts..

but minnesota had a huge predophile ring that bonacci knew about and knew the cast of criminals!!

was johnny consequently taken there and escaped to an indian reservation..i dont know..but bonacci was involved in " games of abuse" with children in minnesota!
look up james rud jordan minnesota!!

fly

Did you choose the least expensive used copy? If so, someone else may have bought that one out form under you, in which case your price would be bumped up to the next used copy asking price available.

I never had a chance to finish reading that one. .

This may just be a troll, but it is a quite interesting possible link between escort Gannon and Rove. I found this on the Raw Story blog:

Scroll down to comment 5.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=103

That's highly interesting!

here it is:
=======¿

#

I have a pretty good idea how Gannon got the WH press pass.

I am a gay white male. In 1970 I was the national committeeman for the Young Republicans from a Southern state. I attended the YR National Convention in June of 1970 in Phonex, AZ. I met K. Rove at the convention and went to the bar for drinks.
We had sex at the Del Web Townhouse we left the bar. I was in the closet until I was in my 40’s. Karl needs to get out of the closet.

Connect the dots.

Comment by Thom — 2/19/2005 @ 2:38 pm
=========↕

Was just watching the Greenspan hearings on C-SPAN and said, "That guy sounds just like Jeff Gannon." I looked up to see who he was talking about and it was Jim Nussle from Iowa. Of course it completely spooked me out, but it also made me think about something that we haven't discussed and that's accents which often give away where someone is from. What say you?

I had lived for over 6 months. I was amazed. She was Right On.

Here's the rather sparse list:



So, I admit to Troubleinwinter and all here, I was incorrect -- it is not "zipolla", but I think you may agree that it is very sparse.

And, what I was actually referencing was the total lack of any other human being 'stepping to the microphone' and saying something like 'oh yea, Jeff/Jim/whatever, knew the dude from church' or ...... .

Thank you for the heads-up Troubleinwinter:

http://lefthandedman.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/20/235413/567

Peace.


TBO;24/7

Still leaves a HUGE 16 year gap from 1980 to 1996, and then from 1996 to 2000, practically nothing but tax non-payment and porn.

He claims to have taught in public school. And was in the military.

I wonder if he actually taught "school" IN the military! Would be quite interesting to be able to find out when he actually left the service.

As for the tax judgement... wouldn't the transcripts be public information?

Also, the Bedrock incorporation documents should be public?

I totally agree it's strange that NO ONE has come forward.

Delaware Corporation info:

ACCESSING CORPORATE INFORMATION
The Division of Corporations has many venues for accessing corporate information. You may choose from the following options:

Corporate Status - On the Web - (This application will reflect the status of an entity but will not generate an official certificate of good standing) You may check corporate/entity status on the web for a fee of $10.00 per entity for status or $20.00 per entity for more detailed information including current franchise tax assessment, current filing history and more. You may charge a Visa, MasterCard or Discover card. Click here for status on the web.


Corporate Status - Credit Card - You may contact our office at 302/739-3073 and select option #1. Verbal status is available for a $10.00 charge per entity to your Visa, MasterCard or Discover card.


In Person - No Charge - You may visit our public terminals at our office located at 401 Federal Street in Dover, Delaware for no charge.


Direct Web Access - You may purchase Direct Web Access to Delaware corporate information by contacting an Authorized Vendor. Vendors may charge a fee for this service.

Oh, good. One of the "Authorized Vendors" is Choicepoint! So if you want your information stolen, order the info with a credit card!!

He is the same JD Guckert that claimed to be an alumnus and TKE member in 2001. We have his photo at the TKE party in 2001. Then the minutes of the TKE meetings from that time span refers to him as a big brother and the web master. There is the odd minute reference in May of 2004 where it tries to relieve concerns of the TKEs that questioned whether he was a spook by discussing the fact that a TKE member ids him as Gannon having seen him on CSpan.

We also know that the websites with his escort businesses and photos all relate to our boy and we assume that the tax judgment is his.

October 18, 1996: Tax judgment filed for failure to pay Delaware state income tax over a multi-year period -- (is this now being questioned as to whether its Guckert.)

April 10, 1997: Bedrock corporation incorporated in Delaware (???by whom???)

December, 1998: Gannon/Guckert attends Christmas orgy. (Washington Blade, Feb. 18, 2004)

August 31, 1999: First invoice for porn site design. Name used is "Jeff"

September 27, 1999: GOPUSA.com registered

February 23, 2000: underwear photo uploaded to AOL


However, we have no photo of the JD Guckert that was a TKE and attended college in 1980. We also have no former roommate or classmate or frat brother that confirms that our boy is the JD Guckert from 1980.

How do we know for sure that our boy did not assume the identity of that JD Gurkett? We won't until we have a photo or id from someone that knew JD Gurkett in college. We just know that Gannon claims to be Gurkett. Why did he assume another name? Did he know that anyone who knew JD Gurkett in 1980 would know that he wasn't Gurkett?

JD Gurkett did attend the college and was a member of TKE in 1980. How do we know for certain our boy is that JD Gurkett? Why didn't our boy include his journalistic experience at college on his bio? His college journalistic experience would add credibility to his credentials that were limited to a 2 day/$50 seminar.

I still have questions.

questions if the taxes are truly Guckert's.

I don't think there is a question of it:

Discredited reporter owes back taxes
Ex-Delawarean didn't pay $20,700 over three years
By ESTEBAN PARRA / The News Journal

02/12/2005

The former Wilmington resident who gained notoriety asking softball questions at White House press conferences has an outstanding tax bill from the state of Delaware.

James D. Guckert, who reported under the pseudonym Jeff Gannon, failed to pay Delaware more than $20,700 in personal state income tax from 1991 through 1994, according to documents filed in Superior Court in Wilmington.

"When it rains, it pours," Guckert said Friday from his Washington home. He would not comment further.

Online writers called "bloggers" published his real name and the Wilmington address where his Internet domain was registered around the time that he resigned. They also discovered that several gay pornographic domain names had been registered through his domain.

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2005/02/12discreditedrepo.html

He does NOT deny that it is his tax debt.

1980.

We still need confirmation of that. A photo, a classmate, a brother frat, something!

On his escort sites bulldog Gannon claims to be 31 or 32 in 2001 and 2002 - sure it is possible that a male escort will subtract some years to be more marketable, but it could also be his "true" biological age.

....Jeff Guckert (high school name of someone on a golf team who does not appear to be the latter day Guckert/Gannon) or James Guckert (college and frat name) from 1976 to the present come forward with a comment or a photo or anything.

And, one has to wonder why a high schooler named Jeff Guckert would become a college/frat boy named James Guckert.

Peace.


TBO;24/7

colorado..and was living with a new "family" march 1986 bonacci saw
johnny gosch there in march 1986 near buena vista colorado!!
bonacci was with the guy who had kidnapped johnny a guy named emelio

this information was given to the west des moines police but they refused to interview or follow up on bonaccis statement to investigator roy stephens!!

go west..look west and then minnesota!!

fly

http://www.beyondweird.com/ufos/Bruce_Walton_The_Underground_Nazi_Invasion_15.html

snip:

The weekly stated that Roy Stephens, a private investigator who has
worked on the case and heads the MISSING YOUTH FOUNDATION,
"says there is reason to believe THAT THE CIA IS DIRECTLY IMPLI-
CATED," and that the "FBI refuses to help in the investigation and has
SABOTAGED any efforts" to get to the bottom of the story. indicates that the FBI is now owned and controlled more or less by the
CIA. A far cry from the days of Elliot Ness and Al CaPone when the
FBI was more concerned with enforcing justice. - Wol.] Stephens says
that "Paul Bonacci directly accused President Bush of being implicated"
in the affair when he testified before the Franklin Committee. / Note #3
Bonacci, who had been one of the child prostitutes, is identified by
leading child-abuse experts as a well-informed, credible witness.


fly

by Paul Eberle, Shirley Eberle

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0879758090/ref=dp_proddesc_0/002-9367840-7840065?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155

A zealous denunciation of a bizarre child-abuse ``witch hunt'' that's undermined by the authors' determination to spin some equally strange conspiracy theories of their own. The McMartin Preschool, for 18 years a popular fixture in the affluent L.A. suburb of Manhattan Beach, rocketed to notoriety following a complaint lodged by an arguably unstable parent whose charges, in addition to sexual abuse, included the beheading of infants and the drinking of their blood. An inflammatory letter sent to parents by local police; interviews with hundreds of children by unlicensed therapists using unproven, possibly manipulative, methods; strategic leaks to the press--all created a frenzy leading to seven years of litigation in which none of the original seven defendants--who lost their assets, reputations, and livelihoods--were found guilty of anything. Trying to pin down what went wrong, the Eberles (Pity the Little Children, 1986--not reviewed) prove to be convincing, if one-sided, defenders of the accused--at least when they stick to court transcripts. But their analysis--ranging from petty cracks about the hairstyles of lawyers to ominous hints of government plots (``an agenda to compel mindless conformity and blind obedience'')--repeatedly tips from outrageous and undocumented to what some might consider, at best, transparently alarmist. Important themes--such as the dangers arising from the use of jailhouse informants and from the political considerations of elected law-enforcement officials--are lost in a scattershot barrage of unexplored red herrings (e.g., three sightings of a mysterious ``fat man with a moustache'') and dark musings (``persons at the highest levels of power'' must have guided CBS-TV's decision to show two films on child abuse prior to jury deliberations). The McMartin defendants, evidently treated unfairly by their accusers, have been ill-served once again. (First printing of 30,000) -- Copyright ©1993, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved.

The fat man with glasses sounds like Lawrence King.

Alan Dershowitz
" . . .a wake up call to those who believe that prosecutors and their experts can be trusted to do justice in the emotional context of child abuse."

Another way to look at this might be that there was a coverup in the usual style - pain the accuser as crazy and blame the system. The details sound eerily like they type of ritual described Bonacci.
Interesting that Alan - "I'm pro torture" Dershowitz chimes in to reinforce the dicrediting of the allegations.

described by Bonacci
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/3.html?sect=19

Nathan and Snedeker detail the following items from Judy Johnson's account:

* a teacher had stepped on Matthew's stomach
* Peggy Buckey, 59, had forced him to engage with her in oral sex
* The children were taken from the school and given over to others to sodomize
* Matthew was made to ride horses nude on the beach
* Ray had tortured and killed animals
* Ray wore the costumes of a priest, clown, Santa Claus and Satan while he performed the abuse
* Matthew was taken in a plane to see some goatmen and had to stick his finger in a goat's anus
* The children were taken to a ranch and a hotel
* Ray flew in the air and Peggy drilled children under the arms in a ritual
* The female teachers dressed as witches
* They buried Matthew in a coffin
* They gave him an enema
* They put staples in his ears and nipples
* They let a lion hurt him
* A baby's head was chopped off and Matthew had to drink its blood

This boy, Matthew, was not even three years old and was barely able to talk. Yet Judy Johnson's accounts were taken at face value and parents were horrified.

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Pedophocracy/child_sexual_abuse_and_the_CIA.htm

It should probably be noted here that the firm that supplied the training to CIA officers didn't just employ several members of the Finders, but appears to have in fact been a wholly owned subsidiary of the Finders organization. It should also be noted that the CIA does not, as a general rule-of-thumb, assign the training of its officers to outside contractors, unless, that is, the 'private' firm utilized in such a capacity is a CIA front. In the last paragraph of the U.S. News report, more intriguing connections to Langley are revealed: “the CIA's interest in the Finders may stem from the fact that late wife once worked for the agency and that his son worked for a CIA proprietary firm, Air America.” Aside from acknowledging these by then widely known (in Washington) CIA connections, the U.S. News reporters did their very best to bury the Finders story once and for all:

Air America Cap http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/artifacts/air.htm

On Friday, 2/6/87, I met Detective Bradley at the warehouse on 4th Street, N.E. I duly advised my acting group supervisor, SS/A Don Bludworth. I was again granted unlimited access to the premises. I was able to observe numerous documents which described explicit sexual conduct between the members of the community known as Finders. I also saw a large collection of photographs of unidentified persons. Some of the photographs were nudes, believed to be of members of the Finders. There were numerous photos of children, some nude, at least one of which was a photo of a child 'on display' and appearing to accent the child's genitals. I was only able to examine a very small amount of the photos at this time. However, one of the officers presented me with a photo album for my review. The album contained a series of photos of adults and children dressed in white sheets participating in a 'blood ritual.' The ritual centered around the execution of at least two goats. The photos portrayed the execution, disembowelment, skinning and dismemberment of the goats at the hands of the children. This included the removal of the testes of a male goat, the discovery of a female goat's ‘womb’ and the ‘baby goats’ inside the womb, and the presentation of a goat's head to one of the children.

Further inspection of the premises disclosed numerous files relating to activities of the organization in different parts of the world. Locations I observed are as follows: London, Germany, the Bahamas, Japan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Africa, Costa Rica, and 'Europe.' There was also a file identified as 'Palestinian.' Other files were identified by member name or 'project' name. The projects appearing to be operated for commercial purposes under front names for the Finders. There was one file entitled 'Pentagon Break-In,' and others referring to members operating in foreign countries. Not observed by me but related by an MPD officer were intelligence files on private families not related to the Finders. The process undertaken appears to be have been a systematic response to local newspaper advertisements for babysitters, tutors, etc. A member of the Finders would respond and gather as much information as possible about the habits, identity, occupation, etc., of the family. The use to which this information was to be put is still unknown. There was also a large amount of data collected on various child care organizations. The warehouse contained a large library, two kitchens, a sauna, hot-tub, and a 'video room.' The video room seemed to be set up as an indoctrination center. It also appeared that the organization had the capability to produce its own videos. There were what appeared to be training areas for children and what appeared to be an altar set up in a residential area of the warehouse. Many jars of urine and feces were located in this area.

According to that AP report, child pornography investigators in several countries had already contributed images to the database, as had “the FBI, Secret Service, Postal Inspection Service and exploited-children groups.” The goal is for the system to “eventually include most of the illicit photographs in circulation on the Internet.” Advanced image recognition software will be utilized in an attempt match and identify the children in the photographic images, which will, as The Register noted, make it easier “to identify and locate sexually abused children.” That is certainly an encouraging development, if, that is, it represents a sincere effort by law enforcement personnel to gather evidence against the child exploitation rings and aid the physically and emotionally ravaged victims.

However, there could also be a very sinister goal being pursued. Researcher Arlene Tyner, who has spent a considerable amount of time interviewing and corresponding with victims of mind control operations, noted in a Probe magazine article that some of these victims “were turned over to military/CIA doctors by pedophile fathers or other sexually abusive relatives. CIA officials also blackmailed family members known to produce ‘kiddie porn’ in order to gain control of their already abused and psychologically fragmented children.” It is certainly within the realm of possibility that the high profile child pornography raids in recent years, which invariably result in relatively few arrests and even fewer prosecutions and convictions, are not intended to punish the victimizers, but to identify and compromise them. And is it not inconceivable that the databases being compiled will be utilized as something of a recruitment list to identify those persons who have been ‘preconditioned,’ so to speak, for future mind control operations

One thing can be stated with certainty about the thousands of victims of today’s child pornography and child prostitution rings: some day, many of them will come forward to tell harrowing stories of their early childhood abuse. They will speak of acts of depravity committed against children that are so heinous as to be almost beyond human comprehension. And yet, as difficult as their stories will be to believe, they will be documented by the images stored in Interpol’s computers, and in the U.S. Justice Department’s computers.

But how many of these victims will be believed?

Note the tie-in above: Noreen Gosch said John Gosch's father participated in handing his son over to the kidnapping ring.

To answer that question, another question has to be asked: what the hell is a Satanic priest doing at a military base in the first place, to even be accused of the crimes alleged? Despite Pentagon denials of him even being in the Army when the Presidio scandal hit, it turns out that Mr. Aquino had Top Secret security clearance, and had been a psychological warfare specialist for military intelligence at least since the time of the Vietnam War. In fact, he was co-author of a report titled "From PSYOP to Mindwar: The Psychology of Victory", which advocates the usage of Electromagnetic fields, ionized air, and ELF waves to control mass populations. Of course, this is but a hint of his influence: according to The Franklin Coverup, by John DeCamp, he is one of the masterminds of Project Monarch, a mind kontrol operation that involves satanic cults and brainwashing of children. In fact, it is very likely that whatever was going on at Presidio is precisely linked to this operation.

Here is an article authored by by Aquino himself, using the same characterizations stated about The McMartin Preschool - a "witchhunt"...
http://www.konformist.com/2001/aquino.htm

Following the publication of the "recovered memories of Satanic ritual abuse" book Michelle Remembers in 1980, the United States and other Anglo-American countries went through a decade of "SRA" scares and witch-hunts. After the 1984 McMartin Preschool became internationally publicized in one such scare, day-care facilities generally became targets of "SRA" witchhunt instigators.

The epidemic extended to U.S. military services as well, including 15 U.S. Army day-care centers and elementary schools by 1987. In late 1986 it was the turn of the Presidio of San Francisco.

On 9/28/86 the San Francisco Examiner began a series of 8 front-page stories sensationalizing the witch-hunts. Approximately a month later one set of Presidio parents claimed that their son might have been anally raped by one of the day-care teachers, Gary Hambright, and the scare was off and running, with scores of children being "abuse-diagnosed" by a "play-therapist" despite not a single published confirmation of actual physical harm to any child. Hambright denied any "abusing" whatever, and all of the other teachers and staff supported him.

I took your cue and went to search the Star Tribune. They have a lame o search that only goes back to 86. Finally googled this:
http://news.forum.publicradio.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/12/1633227
clip...

Twenty years ago this week sex abuse charges were dropped against twenty-one individuals in the small Minnesota valley city of Jordan Minnesota.

What started as a run of the mill investigation grounded in an actual case of sex abuse spun wildly out of control, eventually involving over 60 people. As the investigation progressed, a widening circle of darkly sinister and fantastic charges grew by the week until common sense eventually prevailed.

Investigation by Hubert Humphrey III:
http://www.a-team.org/scott_county.html

Amazing how so much of this stuff is dropped= the kids imagined it

The Gannon wrinkle threads keep going and going and going and going...... :-)

Has Jiggy made an appearance on tv yet? I am really concerned.

I know this is more of a democracy than our own country because if you don’t like my ideas they will just be ignored. So here goes.

I think the randomness and the bulk format of information in the forums layout is killing the speed at which we are all able to search do research and inevitably find the truth in all this.

The serial poster burring points deep within threads you have sent me on many quests in search of. Setting up a blog 5 minutes. They are excellent as public note pads and they are free. We are sharing what we think and what we find but we are in danger of it’s order being too random to ever understand. When the lines get blurry and different people view the truth differently because they have different information we are defeating ourselves. I promise once you set it up it is no harder than posting at DU.

If anyone else has an idea I am looking for suggestions.

It is getting out of hand really quick

Thanks

lp

Hand pick several of the more dedicated people in the discussion -- try not to step on too many toes. Give them posting privilages to a wiki.

But then hold discussions on a blog or on a forum. This is to provide an area where non-wiki-authorized users can contribute, and your wiki-authorized users should use it primarily, rather than the wiki discussion area, because it prevents contents from being deleted.

Much of this may already be in progress at dailykos. Their site is bulkier for browsers, but is better at filtering noise. (DU and Kos are two flavors, I'm not saying either is generically "better" here.)

My 2c

THE CITIZENS FACT FINDING COMMISSION...approx oct 1990

it was a group of international and usa human rights fact finding group who went to nebraska to investigate the kidnappings and coverup.

one of the leaders of this group was Reverand James Bevel
a close associate of martin luther king

Rev Bevel even moved to nebraska for a time to investigate..

this group even wrote a report that denounced " torture and murder in progress

this groups findings..Larouche and his wife were involved
with help from german doctors and canadian
and even Ukrainian human rights people involved they published a report and 150 clergy all over the usa signed a"letter to the
citizens of nebraska "

and endorced the findings and called on senate Franklin committee to go after and persue the investigation of the pedophile ring "at all costs!!!"

these people all saw the videos of the children and they were made out to look like nut cases by none other than the "WORLD HERALD" NEWSPAPER..THE PAPER REFUSED TO PRINT THE LETTER TO CITIZENS OF NEBRASKA ...( no surprise here!!)
they even tried to pay as advertizing to run it in the paper and the paper would not run it and painted them as larouche kooks!

another group who did investigating and was instrumental to getting the franklin case opened was...

Commonwealth depositors committee 1990&91 Dr Melvin Bahensky

he believed that a commonwealth case and the franklin case were one and the same!



fly

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050303-110422-6672r.htm

Republican media adviser found dead


By Stephanie Mansfield
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Republican media adviser R. Gregory Stevens, who recently served as co-chairman of the Bush/Cheney Entertainment Task Force, was found dead Saturday in the Hollywood home of actress Carrie Fisher.
"He passed away here, and in a place where he was loved," Miss Fisher said yesterday from her home in Los Angeles.
Mr. Stevens, 42, was scheduled to attend the Academy Awards in Los Angeles on Sunday night and was staying with Miss Fisher at the time of his death. The Los Angeles County Coroner's Office said yesterday that the cause of death was unknown, pending results of toxicology tests.
His body was found in a guest room by Miss Fisher midmorning Saturday.
"I'm sorry I found him, but he was happy here," the actress said yesterday. "People want to find a scandal in it, but there is none. I don't get it. Nobody does."
Mr. Stevens, who was an associate of the Washington powerhouse lobbying group Barbour, Griffith & Rogers, also helped orchestrate the firm's star-studded party for watching the inaugural parade and was known to have deep roots in the Hollywood community.
"He was very popular, and had tons of connections in Hollywood," said Haley Barbour, one of the firm's founding partners, who resigned to take office as governor of Mississippi in 2004.
"They found him fun, engaging, energetic. Just the way people in Washington did," Mr. Barbour said yesterday from his Jackson office.
A flamboyant personality and bicoastal bachelor, Mr. Stevens was regarded as something of a misfit in the corridors of the buttoned-down lobbying firm, and yet "had a large circle who he touched."

a flamboyant personality an Bicoastal bachelor.

could it be Moonie propaganda?

could he be another elberle media guy..or blackwell??

would he be a link to jimmy/jeff??

fly

snip: was on aol front page..
Updated: 08:22 AM EST
Republican Adviser Dies in Carrie Fisher's home
By JEFF WILSON, AP


r.gregory stevens

During the administration of former President George H.W. Bush, Stevens served as special assistant to Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Jack Kemp. Before that, he was deputy executive director of the California Republican Party where he directed financial operations for the successful Pete Wilson gubernatorial campaign.

From 1984 to 1987, Stevens was assistant to Drew Lewis, chairman of Warner-Amex Cable Communications Inc. During his tenure, he was appointed by President Reagan to assist Drew Lewis efforts as special envoy to Canada for acid rain.

Stevens also served on the Reagan-Bush 1984 re-election campaign as an assistant to Lewis, who was then chairman of national strategy and the Reagan-Bush Platform Team.

from aol front page this morn.

snip:

Updated: 08:22 AM EST
Republican Adviser Dies in Carrie Fisher's home
By JEFF WILSON, AP

Republican media adviser R. Gregory Stevens


He consulted on political operations in Costa Rica, Hungary, Kenya, Macedonia, Montenegro, Nigeria, South Korea, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Thailand and Togo.

Telephone messages left Friday for Barbour Griffith & Rogers spokesman Loren Monroe weren't immediately returned.

During last year's Bush for President campaign, Stevens served as co-chairman of the Bush/Cheney Entertainment Task Force and managed the campaign's relationships with key entertainment industry leaders and film, television and music celebrities.

He served as director of Entertainment Outreach for the 2001 Presidential Inaugural Committee, where he recruited and directed celebrity involvement on behalf of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.


fly

"Straight". The link here also links to the Franklin cover-up book. (Maybe nothing, maybe something?) Bushes involved. (sorry if not on-topic but it might be, esp. in light of the attempted killing of the Italian reporter in Iraq yesterday.)

http://www.thestraights.com/gop.htm

Okay, what tie, if any does this have to our boy.

From this article we know that Stevens was a media consultant for the lobbying group Barbour, Griffith & Rogers.

We know from Gannon's writings that one of "his stories" published before Talon News Service was established (Feb 2003) was touting the greatness of Barbour and announcing his run for GOP candidate for gov of MS.


Do these connectons have any meaning???? :shrug:

edited to add link to Feb 2003 article in GOPNews

Greg Stevens is quite a common name.

FWIW, there is a picture of a 42 year old "Greg Stevens" age 42 in a "person-in-the-street" poll in the Washington Blade. He gives his profession as "educator." A google of images shows a younger Greg Stevens who has nude shots of himself posted. There is a Democratic official names Greg Stevens in of all places, Iowa. I haven't seen an article on this death which gives a picture yet.

Speaking of common names, I find it interesting that George Bush's old college roomie Victor Ashe (one-time mayor of Knoxville) is nicknamed Bulldog, which is also a Jeff Gannon handle.

If we can stay focused on the topic, and keep chatting to a minimum, it will keep the information from getting diluted by being spread over too many threads.

"FWIW, there is a picture of a 42 year old "Greg Stevens" age 42 in a "person-in-the-street" poll in the Washington Blade."

Agreed about the chit chat too!
Welcome to DU!! :hi:

You have links for 1-6, but this thread is #8. Geesh. I spent less than 24-hours away from this saga and missed an entire thread!

know what you mean -- I went grocery shopping last night and came home with cappucino and soup and a candle and a pack o' smokes all ready to read thread seven, and it was gone!

Gotta love it, though. I know this place is called underground, but it REALY IS underground. None of this stuff is avaiable anywhere else.

:hug:

I have not read all or even most of the posts in these marathon threads, but my sense of them is that the discussion has become primarily focused on whether Gannon/Guckert is Gosch, and if not why there seems to be no record of Guckert before around 1980.

While that is a worthwhile and valuable inquiry, I think we are getting distracted from the much bigger issue and story. Remember, the very initial, original post was about whether Guckert was an escort with an agency that might have intelligence connections.

Given the history of Bush I and allegations already standing against the Bush II administration, this is the real scandal -- even more so than the undermining of a free and independent press. The question is (1) whether Guckert was allowed press access despite his obvious lack of credentials because he was a republican operative and plant and (2) whether he achieved this status because of blackmail/extortion through the underground gay republican mafia in Texas and the bush WH and (3) whether there are backchannel connection between the gay extortion racket and intelligence and (4) whether the fact that WH officials may be subject to a gay extortion racket/ gay intelligence extortion honeypot racket is a threat to national security.

This is where the Gosch story and Franklin credit union come in -- but not because we should be obsessed with whether Guckert is Gosch, but because the Gannongate seems to be a continuation of the well documented gay extortion racket that plagued the Bush I administration, in which Gosch may have played a very minor roll.

The best reporting on this is coming out of TBRNews.org and a site I just discovered today, Cannonfire. The story goes something like this:

Back in 1988-89, the Moonie Washington Times broke the story of gay prostitutes being given a tour of the WH. This scandal was connected to the Franklin scandal because the pimps and parties/orgies seemed to be interconnected -- namely Spence for the WH tour and King on the Franklin credit union sex ring. Both sex rings extensively filmed clients and kept careful credit card records of clients for use in the gay extortion racket. Spence ended up dead and King in prison.

Flash forward to Bush II, and yet again the issue of gay prostitutes raises its ugly head (excuse the pun).

Here's why TBRNews is so interesting -- it reported on the gay prostitute issue way back in October when Gannon was still a member in good standing of the WH press corp:

http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1143.htm
http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1151.htm

TBRN claims that the list of closeted republican gay officials has been sold to a foreign power, obviously, threatening national security. In other words, its the same old bush I gay extortion racket back with a fury and maybe some of the same characters.

He has been patting himself on the back since Gannongate broke, citing to his own autumn reporting, eg, here:

http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1376.htm

Most importantly, he has shown the decisive individual link between the bush I and bush II gay prostitution scandals -- an individual who brings together the gay prostitute, neo-nazi and Rovian elements nicely in one package.

Cannonfire, by contrast has a very interesting Moonie take. He asks why the normally republican Washington Times would break the bush I gay prostitute story and then quash it. He theorizes it was a warning shot to extort/blackmail the bush I administration. He reminds us that Moon first came to prominence during a gay sex/foreign intelligence sting in the mid 1970s called Koreagate and that 1989 was par for the course for his method of operation and explains the supportive roll poppy seems to play for the ordinarily universally loathsome Moon.

Go to the Feb blogs, especially Feb 26.

http://www.cannonfire.blogspot.com/

Bonus for consipiracy theorists: Cannon even manages to link Gannongate to the infamous Nick Berg anomalies.

<edited>

I appreciate your post. Admittedly, I'm looking for a grand unified theory, I can't hlep it. It just seems to me that there are so many coincidences involving all these people who seem to be connected to one another. For instance: a man named George paul Bishop who advised Noreen Gosch on how the CIA was connected to the abduction of her son was arrested for child pornography in Herndon ( I think it was herndon) VA, six weeks ago. Why six weeks ago when this Gannon thing was about to break and not six months ago? Not that he's connected to gannon, but that this gay sex ring/thing is the key component to all these suicides, arrests etc. And I don't mean to imply that homosexuality is the problem, not at all. It's the dysfunctional shame of ones sexual tendency that is the problem. IOW, if it made no difference whether one was gay or not in this society, if homosexuality had no stigma whatsoever, we'd have a more emotionally healthy culture. I dunno, maybe I have no idea what I'm talkin about. I just tend to be drawn to the philosphical aspect of why we are the way we are and how to change the mindset rather than a particular administration.

in fact I lean toward believing the Guckert/Gosch theory despite the inconsistencies, and also think the coincidences are not coincidences. It's just that we need to think of this in terms of what it means for the country and how it undermines the hypocritical policies and moral stances of the bushistas.

As for homosexuality, this is not about bashing gays at all. If this involved strictly straight female women seducing straight men and female prostitution rings I'm sure most of our reactions would be exactly the same.

But you are right there is the added hypocrisy of publicly homophobic but secretly gay men carrying out all this crap. It is very very sick. And it vindicates the gay rights movement in this way: if there were no stigma for being gay, there would be no basis for blackmailing gay people. If gay relationships were accepted, there would be no neeed for these men to use gay prostitutes. (In the original 1989 scandal, one of the closeted clients confessed to being "lonely".) If gay people were allowed to marry, there would not be gay prostitution and party/orgies as the primary way for these people to get off.

And to think the Christian right wants to make heterosexuals as repressed as gays. Maybe that's their agenda.

Thanks for suggesting a re-focusing of the debate. It's true the possible connection of Gosch/Guckert is sensational (extraordianry? Truth-is-stranger-than-Fiction-al?)(Hard to find the right word.) But only Guckert and Noreen (and a select few others(Bishop/Bonnacci and etc...) have a true idea of whether it holds any water (though the pictures are compelling)

But the Gosch idea is far from the end of the road, and not the most actionable offense in the whole story. On the face of it there is plenty to worry about as you mention.

Also the theory you attribute to "Cannonfire" was also put forward on "Rigorous Intuition".

(Not to be rancorous, because I agree with most all that you put forward about the hypocrisy of types like Rove/Mehlman espousing an anti-gay agenda, but I think there will always be gay prostitution/orgies/"deviance" as there always will be in the "straight" communities. It's human nature, transgression can be appealing.)

And man, has this wrinkle got gams!

You're questions are right on and that is why we continue our research. It could lead to nothing or it could be the crack in the damn.



Thanks so for the Cannonblog links - I believe he is on the right path! :thumbsup:


(FWIW - threads need to be 200 posts, limiting it to 100 cuts off the discussion and the flow of though.)

My brain is mush right now, so I'm taking a break but, I'd go on tv for Cannon and I hate tv. fwiw

On edit: Thanks for the focus! There are so many open questions here, prioritizing will be the biggest challenge.

I just took a break from the second provided link and went to the TBR homepage where I found this:

"President Bush Controlled by Homosexuals!

Gannon tapes tell all about this!

March 2, 2005
by Dimitri Sokolov
Moscow Gazette

The now-notorious Gannon, a well-known American homosexual pornographer and also a close worker with the Republicans in the White House, is revealing everything about the powerful ring of homosexuals that now are controlling the President Bush.

Gannon, made many secret tape recordings while he was a “front” reporter for the right-wing Republicans at the White House. These tapes, which clearly show the influence of powerful perverts inside the most advanced of the American political circles, were made secretly by Gannon over a two year period.

With the assistance of a literary agent, Gannon has offered these most revealing and very private conversations, to a Russian publishing company’s offices in Malaysia and it is confidentially stated that a very dynamic and revealing book will be produced in the coming future!

Gannon claims intimate connections with not only Mr. Bush himself but also with top leaders in the Republican party and most especially acting as a connection with the very powerful and controlling American Christian militant organizations. He claims that several very famous Christian leaders are also homosexual and that these work together with others in high political circles!

Our reporter advises us that both Russian and English language editions of this book will be printed and this promises to be the important study of . . "
http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1427.htm#001

I find this diificult to believe since gannon is more pro bush than ever, and self-defensive as all get out.

We need to find a way to sort the wheat from the chaff here. I know, tall order that God almighty himself can barely tackle.

What if Gannon is a "double-agent" type?

Suppose he gives Repugs what they want, appears loyal, etc. but also is savvy and nursing a private grudge? IF he has CIA connections he'd perhaps know ins/outs of the game.

Just asking..........

I am about to read them now. Can't we have more than one duinvestigation at one time in these threads? I'm all for it.

Damn I have a document...if I can find it...Oh boy

...'tbrnews' -- the 'tbr' stands for "The Barnes Review" -- a notorious anti-semitic, holocaust denial, etc. bunch. Some folk at DU are quite expert in this matter and regularly alert the DU moderators when 'tbrnews' is being recommended as a source of information. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3111899#3112089

For a bit of background:




Just thought you would want to know. I 'learned the hard way' (i.e., I should have checked a few more google links) on this one and want to pass on my lesson-learned.

Peace.

TBO;24/7

We are trying to prove that Gannon was part of the CIA's prostitution/extortion racket and hence connected to the GHWB underage gay sex scandal from the 80s?

Of have I missed something?

basically anything that would expose the republican party for the hypocritical lying murderous extorting thieves that they are. Illegal war hasn't done it. 2 stolen elections hasn't done it. robbing the national treasure hasn't done it. abu graib didn't do it.

I really wish we could take 5 and think about just what it is we are trying to prove. I don't think that focusing on the vast satanic RW pedofilia ring is the gist of this scandal -- it's the bush WH and maybe the long term carry over of bush family dirty CIA gay pedofilia blackmail schemes -- or susceptibility to blackmail.

And don't think "gay" has anything to do with this at all, any more than "straight" would. We're looking into the heart of the most powerful people in the world and the corruption that enables. Triggering stuff, radioactive.

The fusion on these threads is amazing and we probably have jet lag from the speed.

"What are we looking for" is a good question, imo. And it's no easy to answer because there are different stakes here. Some people have a concern that JDG may be in danger. Some, a concern about children at risk. Some, about our government being subject to manipulation by criminals. Even tracking the media manipulation is a big job although when placed against the other concerns, it shrinks. (This list gets really long, doesn't it?)

Think I'm going to mostly be rereading the threads today.

get some well deserved rest?

I just fell over.

But this morning, battle fatigue. Before making more wild claims, lol, I think I better feed the family, and read some. How 'bout you?

I've been sitting here for hours with my smokes. Man, that's obsession.


lol

We would like to know if he is the same fellow as the JD Guckert that was a TKE in 1980.

As bulldog's facial features are strikingly similar to N. Gosch and J Gosch Sr, we are trying to ascertain whether or not he is the missing Johnny Gosch.

If we find a photo of JD Guckert from 1980 that can be compared to bulldog Gannon, we can try to make a similar comparison to the images and put the matter to rest.

N. Gosch will not confirm or deny that bulldog is Johnny Gosch on the advice of counsel. So we are left with trying to track down J.D. Guckert aka Jeff Gannon aka bulldog.

18 years not accounted for.

Do you have the JD Guckert years 1957 to 1975? If so, do you have a photo or confirmation that the JD Guckert from 1957 to 1975 is the same man as the JD Guckert aka Jeff Gannon from 1996 to present?

We know there was a JD Guckert born in 1957 that attended college and was a TKE in 1980. We do not know if that is the same man as the JD Guckert that was an alumnus who attended TKE parties in 2001 and was referenced in the TKE minutes of May of 2004 that reported he was not CIA or FBI but a reporter as seen on CSpan.

We need JD Guckert's image from 1957 to 1980.

There apparently IS NO RECORD of hime from 1957-75. Peace.

Guckert is the missing Johnny Gosch. He was abducted, indoctrinated and then reaappeared into society. He couldn't come back as Johnny Gosch so he had to assume an identity.

Let's further theorize he assumed the identity of J.D. Guckert. We know that others have found that JD Guckert was born in 1957 and attended college and was a TKE in 1980. He also obtained a teaching certificate in 1983.

Now JD Guckert pops up in 1996 and has a judgment rendered against him for not paying taxes in previous years (odd, why didn't he? where was he). This same JD Guckert buys sites and posts his escort services and porn photos and is lists his attributes. In 2001 and 2002 he purports to be 31 or 32 and is even reviewed by his clients, none of which dispute his age.

Then this JD Guckert takes on an alias, Jeff Gannon, and becomes a fake, partisan conservative "reporter" for a partisan, alleged news service and gains access to our White House just feet away from our president. Why the alias, was he afraid that someone who knew the 1980 Guckert would know that he was not the same guy?

I just want a photo of JD Guckert from 1980 to compare to Jeff Gannon today.

I want proof that James Gannon did not assume the 1980 JD Guckert's identity.

That is not too much to ask, is it.

(FWIW - 200 posts a thread is good)

Please notice the researched referenced at posts 96 and 146.

not in '83. http://lefthandedman.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/20/235413/567

According to nonny's post #96 in this thread, checking ancestry.com entry #131 shows that a James Guckert died in 1983, a year after Gosch's disappearance and in the beginning of Guckert's "lost years."

I agree, we need a picture of Gannon/Guckert from before 2001, preferably from college.



*edited for clarity and spelling.

As far as I can tell, the earliest picture we're seen of Jimmy/Jeff is at that frat party in 2001. Someone here noted that anyone could show up after 20 years and say they were someone else. His attending that frat party could have been to establish a photographic record, a history.

We at least need an image between 1978 (started college) and 1996 (tax problems started).

Gosch and Guckert. Has anyone compared other pictures of Guckert to look for the scar? When I saw the scars side by side, I was convinced, but now I don't see any discussions of the scar. Am I missing something?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3220309#3222227

is the most recent posting of that comparison.

Peace.


TBO;24/7

Not many folks mentioning that either...

:hi: Welcome to DU!

snip ---

"Hmmm...this is too weird. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet...

But, as mentioned per this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

John David Gosch had a large birthmark on his chest. Assuming that he had it removed, there could be a scar or blemish in its place

You see that purplish blemish to the LEFT of his dogtags???"

-- I can't link up the photo so you'll have to check it out yourself...unless someone else can put it up. Anyone?

but that scar is not as evident on the other photos of bulldog gannon, so I am not sure if it exists or is a blemish or shadow on the image posted.

It could be well hidden or covered in the other photos of gannon.

Still, a photo of JD Guckert is crucial for a true comparison.

linkage for Gannon Gate. If this kid was abducted as part of a CIA-run kiddie sex operation (they got no qualms about drug ops, why would they avoid this one?) and if he turned out to be particularly adept/skillful/charming in some useful manner, then it makes perfect sense that they could use him in adulthood -- in just about any way they liked (speaking of CIA here)!

Those looking for military discharge records....someone close to me, whose grandad was employed by Eisenhower administration (undersecretary of the navy or some such), points out that there would be no record of discharge if he was still active..........and in special ops that could mean god-knows-what.

What say you all?

And if he's still on active duty, and WH Press Corps was a special ops assignment, that certainly opens some interesting possibilities as to how and why he gained entry into the press corps under a pseudonym.

Good observation. Thanks, sojourner. And welcome to DU! :hi:

I notice that someone upthread posted a link to a report that Gannon has tapes.

Although this was questioned, and rightly so, I don't think it ought to be dismissed out of hand. It COULD be that Gannon is playing a dangerous game in which he has maneuvered the WH into a vulnerable position and now wants to "out" them without getting snuffed himself.

That would mean trying to get caught (taunting DU'ers?)...playing both ends, and..........well, you get my drift.

I know it's a ways "out there" -- but if he's active in ops, (and heck, the CIA hasn't been that tickled with this WH anyway, has it? Look at the way Porter Goss just cleaned house..............)

S'cuse me if this isn't the clearest. Thinking out loud. See if there's anything at all to it................

when they are around 125-150 posts...anything over IMHO we get jumbled info...

let's at least go to 200!!

it's too long! Hey- it's up to you guys...

this feels like the good old days....between you, me, merh, sfexpat2004, Andy, understandinglife, etc some others - we must be the official conspiracy theorists......between this and the election fraud.....teeehehehehehe

:hi: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

I link up quite a few nonDU friends who are keeping tabs on this with great interest.

LOL!

:tinfoilhat:

Ummm..er.....I'm actually very well educated and a professional research consultant -- (s'posed to be very skeptical, y'know?).

But the coincidences and connections in this Gannon-Gate thing (and the selection fraud 2000/2004) are more than my little brain can take without saying ---- There are patterns here!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:toast:

At this point theories can get us in trouble.

I deleted this message of agreement after reading fly's giant NO! response and mistakenly thinking (s)he was responding to me.

I think that to research, investigate, analyze and interpret the evidence (or lack of) that can help unravel this WHOLE sordid affair serves the highest patriotic duty. I don't care what we're called in the process.

I consider this my duty to the nation. If some one wants me to wear a :tinfoilhat: and wants to call me a conspiracy theorist, that is cool, just let me do my research and don't bother me. Besides, if they ignore us as kooks we will be free to continue our work, if they see us as a threat, the leads will vanish and our efforts thwarted.

Merh-I'm with you. It's our obligation as Americans to look into this horror we suspect. How about Truth Patriots!

THATS WHY PEOPLE KEEP REPEATING AND REPEATING THINGS!!!!!!!!!!

we are getting nowhere because this keeps getting switched too quick..this is rediculous!! 3 times since last night..wtf???

and then we get repeat after repeat of the same stuff..this is getting stupid!

fly

doing research..we are searching for stuff ..you know ..not just chit chatting!! by the time we go to post the stuff you have the darn thing moved again..leave it alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fly

If people on dial-up are having trouble reading the threads, then perhaps they can put them in printer-friendly mode (makes them much easier to go through).

from the school guckert graduated from.

The number of posts is very high, and I apologize if this angle has been covered.

But he should have graduated in what 1975? Maybe with a photo of JD Guckert from high school would show the JD Guckert (Jeff Gannon) to not be the same people.

I know it is a stretch, but it would open the possibility that our Gannon is not even Guckert. Then who is he, and who does he work for?

Good question...several of us have made the suggestion. I don't think there is such a photo. If there were, I'm sure it would have showed up here!

Doesn't mean it couldn't do so even at this late date (like 7 threads later). But I'm not thinking it's likely. Others may disagree...

attended in 1980 that has a contact at the college who is supposed to be researching this. We don't know about the high school that JDGuckert attended, not sure if we have anyone in that area who has done any research.

That is the odd thing about this guy - we can't find the past photos to compare to bulldog. We can't find anything about bulldog/guckert between 1983 to 1996. :shrug:

There are still so many unaswered questions!

I read that here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=338827&mesg_id=338827&page=

What about we hold up, send him good energy and resume when he's on the mend? I don't see any of these issues going away. Whaddya think? We've a lot to process, imho.

he would want us to continue.

regardless, i can't wait till all is done and he is back to normal and being healthy!!!! :hug: :bounce:

I was just thinking, it would be nice if he didn't have so much to catch up on -- these threads just grow like Topsy.

And, there's nothing to stop us from doing research and just saving it. Might not be a bad idea to reread the threads (ouch!) to help us focus up.

Just my .02

Andy is HERE today!

that post in 2004 E. -- he posted in this thread today at 3:21 p.m.

If he wakes up from his nap or returns to find we stopped because he is waiting on surgery, he may be disappointed in our efforts. Not to mention that the efforts are not just for Andy, they are for all of us and the truth. I am not researching for Andy, I am working with him.

Let the researching continue. It is a good idea to review all the threads though. The duplicate info that has been discounted in another thread keeps popping up.

On ward and up ward!

I am still curious about the death of the repug media consultant - is it tied to propaganda gate? Another poster advised he had read about Stevens in the Washington Blade. I hope he/she comes back and provides links.

he has been posting on all the boards..he hasn't gone for surgery yet..he just gets very tired..
i would never presume to speak for him, but i just dont think he would want the research to stop.

i spoke with him last night and he gets tired easily.

we would do him proud if we cut the chit chat and just all do the research so we can connect some dots before andy does go for surgery!!

fly

this is a message board and alot of folks have connections that go way back and they like to stop and chat and make comments.

The Plame threads were like this, I think there were 14 or so and went on for quite awhile. They were eventually stopped because people got too caught up in the efforts and criticized other posters for not being as involved or for not understanding the issues the way they did. Please let's just try to keep that out of this thread and keep a respect for all who post in this thread. :toast:

"WRINKLEGATE"

heheheheheheh
hehehehehheheh
heheheheheh
ok yeah, bad joke i know :nopity:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3225014

Thank you
-DU Moderator.