US attack against Italians in Baghdad was deliberate: companion

US attack against Italians in Baghdad was deliberate: companion --The companion of freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena on Saturday leveled serious accusations at US troops who fired at her convoy as it was nearing Baghdad airport, saying the shooting had been deliberate. "The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming," Pier Scolari said on leaving Rome's Celio military hospital where Sgrena is to undergo surgery following her return home. "They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints." The shooting late Friday was witnessed by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's office which was on the phone with one of the secret service agents, said Scolari. "Then the US military silenced the cellphones," he charged. "Giuliana had information, and the US military did not want her to survive," he added.

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=38029

how horrific and stunning the truth may be...it needs to be told! Peace!

Dan Rather and Brokaw were Anthraxed. I don't see then saying anything this time around :shrug:. Anyone who says anything will be the next target.

It could be just as the article says, it coud be just as the Army says, or---- far more likely--- the real truth of it lies somewhere in between.

There should have been some communication... don't you think?

That would be a fairly important question to know the answer to, I think.

they were ambused by US troops and their car was shot 300 to 400 times.

Poor communication my ass.

Do you have possesion of evidence which demonstrates this conclusively?

Was going to report on the refugee camps housing the survivors of the Fallujah massacre, and their stories -

it would have been the insurgents who did it.. right??

the insurgents ..that arent insurgents... but iraqis fighting an occupier!!

yes there are like aroubd 60 dead journalists!!

this is a * operation..operation ..keep your mouths shut reporters!!

i hate this admins!!!

and i have never felt hate in all my 53 yrs before!!

fly

NY NG were kept out of the loop so this could be passed off as accidental or freindly fire. The reporter had a badly damaged should and punctured lung. Maybe Berlusconi was in on the LIHOP.
700 m is less than a kilometer, a kilometer is 5/8's of a mile. 700 m from the ABQ airport puts you less than a minute from the departure unload at 10 mph.

Should there have been? Yes. Was there? The Italians say 'yes' and the Army says 'no'. I wasn't there, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

:shrug:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I want to hear everyone's statements.

will ever be able to tell the public their side of the story. Fortunately there were other witnesses.

Sgrena denies that. Why were they so quick to say it was a "multinational force" when that was a lie? I am very skeptical of this Pentagon spin that came out almost immediately.

Jessica Lynch lie's I don't trust the Pentagon in anything with this administration.

doesn't even have this story on page one of their website yet.

Seems it always takes longer on the weekends to get the official story from the WH or DOD, before they can print their version of events.

Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has described how she came under a "hail of gunfire" moments after being released from her Iraqi abductors in Baghdad.

"I was especially shocked because we thought that by then the danger was past," she told Italy's Rai radio.

Ms Sgrena, who was wounded in the incident, has been sent to a military hospital in Rome for an operation.

She denied US military accounts that the car was speeding past a checkpoint when it was fired upon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4321913.stm

abduction was a fake. During her "captivity" she likely became an encyclopedia of inside information on the insurgency movement and its philosophy. The impact of her upcoming report may have cut both ways, but why would Rummy want to chance it?

Shortly after her recovery, Giuliana will take center stage in the European press.

Greg Palast will likely be our only resource to the full story.

I can't wait to hear/read what he says about this. I'm sure he'll uncover it. He's one of the best.

nt

not on gd

:eyes:

LMAO

Then I was jumping around to each forum - sure that some nefarious CIAole-Mod was conspiring to hide the truth...

God...

I need a stiff drink...

soldiers that killed Calipari. They just say that a "companion of a rescued Italian reporter was killed during the rescue operation". I shit you not.

By then, democracy would have taken hold in Iraq.

and la times ed board is a bigtime mediawhore...
:shrug:

trying to hide the story so people won't uncover it.

Why don't these check points have speed inhibitors? Either bumps or narrow passageways that vehicles CAN'T speed by.... just wondering.....

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the Bushistas, one by Sgrena -- there's not the slightest doubt in me as to which story to believe.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

dead in Iraq - only one American among them. The journalists have been hinting all along hat the US are doing it on purpose. And Sgrena is a woman to be believed. Your administration is not to be believed which has been amply proven. If you still want to give the administration the benefit of the doubt go right ahead, I won't have a sleepless night.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

Of course that's an unreasonable thing.

or any goddamned thing else to the Bush Administration. At long last...can you folks not understand this????

Did you get video footage?

I prefer to think that 'common sense' includes keeping an open mind until all the facts are proven, but some may disgaree.

:shrug:

In real life you have to make compromises. Given what we know now, common sense tells me there was no regular checkpoint. If further information is released which proves otherwise I'm open to change my opinion, but I highly doubt that will happen.

Now, if you give equal credibility to the Bush propaganda machine and to its victims, that's your right and I respect it.

Direct evidence, indirect evidence, etc. .

A fact is always a compromise. A subjective probability that something indeed happened. Given any situation, you can always come up with an alternative scenario (for example, that all eyewitnesses were bribed). You have to make compromises and use a high dose of logic AND common sense.

I do, in fact, understand the concept of a 'fact' quite well.

A math class could help as well.

There's more than one definition of what a 'fact' is.

I agree with the concept of not jumping to conclusions and evaluating the "facts" first though (whatever "facts" mean)

In this case, the "facts" look quite clear to me though.

:)

You have the Pentagon and the DOD renowned for their proficiency in hiding the facts saying one thing.

and

You have a World renowned Journalist who has risked her life to spend time in Iraq to get the REAL Story out about what is happening their Not the embedded spoon fed Shit but the Real unembedded Story saying another.

This is real life not a Court of Law. Common sense says put your $ on the Journalist until the the Pentagon come up with " their version of events" They are the Perps here not the Journalist

As far as this Gem goes

'common sense' includes keeping an open mind until all the facts are proven"

In all sincerity are you SERIOUS? You seriously think the American Military are going to let independent Crime scene investigators analyze the scene, Talk to the Shooters, examine the Car verify the location of the attack "until all the facts are proven"

Yeah good luck with that.

:hi:

Thanks

them prove they are innocent of any wrong doing this time. Until then, keep their feet to the fire.

Good on you. To many are.

The stealth freeps come out like termites around a story like this.

Have you hit 'Alert'?

Ask any Mod they'll tell you I'm king of the Alert button.

;)

And I'll just leave it at that.

I'd like to see more corporate media interest in this story. they can act early to clear the U.S. of any foul play. Until then, it's up to patirots like us to keep the story out there in search of the truth.

And the poor woman will see no way out than to shoot herself - with a gun in the back of her head. She didn't want to stay one moment longer in the US hospital in Iraq. I'm sure she knows why. I'm afraid she doesn't have much longer to live.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

online was very careful. But my guy is tellig me it's all over TV (which I don't watch) and radio (which I don't listen to) and that they have reported that the Sgrena companion says it was deliberate.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

on the planet. If the shooting turns out to be a bonafide accident it's important to get the information out early.

mistake, or was it the troops from the nearest checkpoint after hearing the gunfire? In other words, did the patrol flee the scene of the shooting? If so, then that patrol sounds like a death squad to me.

other kidnappings and beheadings.

Smells like a breakdown of communication to me. Had the soldiers known who was approaching them, they wouldn't have fired. Not everything is politically-inspired. These guys were afraid (who wouldn't be?) and just reacted. It's tragic, but it happens. Most of our boys/girls over there don't give a shit about politics when survival is at stake.

Yeah, the situation sucks and it makes me sad for all involved, but I don't think it was intended.

Just my 0.02

"These guys were afraid (who wouldn't be?) "

Huh? I mean, of course being there must suck and I'm sure they're afraid of everything all the time. But does that mean they're shooting at everyone all the time?

Either it was deliberate or the guys are shooting at anything that moves. Either way I'm :scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

the El Mundo article, the shots were fired from an armored vehicle "patroling", it was not a checkpoint, the car was not speeding and had already passed through several checkpoints. Why would soldiers inside an armored vehicle "on patrol" panic because a car approached at normal speed and shoot to kill with no warning? That must mean they shoot at absolutely every car they see? I just find it very conspicuous.

If what your saying is true... it only deepens the crisis...for we will have lost another allie that being Italy.

We need all the help we can get to hopefully get out of this mess.

Also... welcome to the D.U. .. I hope you enjoy your time here.

:toast:

by the * admin..ohhhh please how many times have we been down that road...

oh yeah a grunt gets blamed..and slappped on the hands...and the * boys keep on killing!

fly

There was an interview with Sgrena on the eveing news here, and she clearly said that they were attacked suddenly by a patroling armoured vehicle. That doesn't look too good for the official version of events...

I understand that it's a really big thing in Italy now.

I do enjoy DU, plenty of interesting discussions and information sharing.

Very fishy indeed. Doesn't make sense.

These guys are trained to be on guard constantly. If something seems "different" in a war zone, they respond. Remember that a lot of these young people in the military are kids. Yes, they're afraid. They should be afraid. They want to go home to their families in one piece, and that can cloud one's judgement in times of extreme stress.

Yes, they make mistakes. Often. I still don't believe that these lower-level grunts had ANY agenda other than self-preservation. The fact that we shouldn't be in Iraq at all is not the fault of your average 20 y/o kid who is doing the best that he knows how to do.

My main bitch is not with Joe Soldier. It's with his murderous bosses.

into a car that passed all the checkpoints..is a mistake???

i think not!!!!

fly

If there was a Bradley fighting vehicle that was on patrol, which one of the reports in this thread states there was, and thats what did the shooting.. the COAX machine gun fires at a cyclic ROF of 750 rounds a minute..(low rate) 900 rounds a minute high rate (and that still isn't the max rate of fire for it.

The big question for me, if this was deliberate, then why did they let her live? IF they weren't afraid to "ambush" her 700m from the airport, they why not just go ahead and off her?

If there was a Bradley that did the firing why didn't it just use the 25mm chain gun that fires HE rounds, seems that would have been the more effective way to make sure that she was dead...

who treated her after the "ambush"? If it was American forces that treated her and they wanted her dead, when they started the IV on her why not just push some MSO4 and finish the job..or when she when a US doctor saw her why not just push some KCL and stop her heart?

As for it not being a checkpoint one of the stories that is linked in this thread states

"Giuliana Sgrena also told of how the shooting happened at Checkpoint 504 - Camp Victory by Baghdad airport."

so which is it? was she at a checkpoint? or was she past all the checkpoints..she is contradicting herself there.

Someone else said that this needs to be thoroughly investigated, and I agree, but I believe that it was not deliberate.
I have, however, been wrong before.

that makes a lot of sense :crazy:

peace

I hope she spills all the guts! Please do and don't be afraid!

they had the car stopped, a dead man on top of her and wounded people, why wouldnt they have finished her off. if the car was stopped. they administered the aid, they got her to safety. doesnt make sense they would mean to do it, and then letting her go, she knowing they tried to kill her

If the soldiers had orders to kill whoever was in the car, you would think that they would have finished the job.

What we know is that the car was fired on. The Italian secret service agent was on the phone with the Italian Prime Minister. US soldiers cut off the phone transmition. At this point had they been a trained hit squad, they would have surely put a bullet through Sgrena's head to finish her off. The didn't. Sgrena and the other survivors were taken to a hospital, presumably by the same US troops who shot at them.

Unless it can be proved that the American troops who fired on the car were deliberately kept out of the loop in order to arrange an "accident"--or that there were so many witnesses that the hit squad was unable to finish the job undetected, the screw up scenario seems most likely.

who says the soldiers firing into the car needed to be anything more than dupes?

I have a distinct feeling that this was a godawful, tragic clusterfuck, rather than a deliberate thing.

If "they" meant to kill her, it is very unlikely that "they" included the soldiers who were firing to stop the car in their decision to kill.

If this was an assasination, it's most likely, imo, that only one or two people would have been shooting to kill the journalist. Quite plausibly from a location completely seperate from the soldiers raining bullets into the car to stop it.

This fits in with the scenario we have so far; the agent sheilded her, and died from one bullet to the temple.

Another wrinkle to consider, is that as close as they were to the airport and Italian troops, the spectre of the Italian government being involved is not so farfetched either.

the truth must be stopped, it might upset the americans.

be very careful "because the Americans didn't want her to return". I just read this on Spiegel online.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3227317

\'My Name Is Giuliana Sgrena: I Write for a Newspaper Which Opposed the Sanctions and the War Against Iraq\'

By Luciana Bohne
Online Journal Contributing Writer

February 12, 2005

<snip>
The abduction Friday, 4 February, of the journalist from Il Manifesto, Giuliana Sgrena, has Iraqi civil society living in anguish about her fate—they have added the burden of her disappearance to the litany of their daily, appalling, ever-mounting woes. In their utterly civilized and almost powerless humanity, they plead for her! I don't think it will be easy for even the brutality of the occupation to crush such a selfless strain of stubborn humanity!

Sheik Hussein al Zobey, Sunni coordinator of the refugee camps inside the University of Baghdad, uttered an impassioned appeal for the journalist's release: "In the name of truth, free her. I appeal in the name of those who come to help us. I ask the kidnappers to free Giuliana, who has promised to help us. She has laughed and played with our children—and has cried with us."

"Truly moving is the involvement of the Iraqi people in Giuliana Sgrena's ordeal," writes Il Manifesto's correspondent from Baghdad, Stefano Chiarini. "Suffering daily abuses and violence from occupation forces or their proxies, the Iraqis themselves are subjected to routine hostage-taking by the occupiers. If the father is not at home, they arrest his son, or brother, or other relative. Under the pretext of looking for arms, American soldiers and their Iraqi trainees look for jewels and money . And, yet, the whole country has mobilised for the liberation of Giuliana."

Sheik Abdel Salam al Qubaisi of the Association of Islamic Scholars (Sunni), in extremely severe terms, denounced the abduction: "This type of kidnapping distorts and defames the resistance of the Iraqi people against the American occupation." Sheik Al Qubaisi reminded Iraqis that on 19 January, the Association of Islamic Scholars pronounced itself explicitly opposed to "such actions, affirming that there must be no kidnapping of journalists."

Indeed, Chiarini reports, Sheik al Qubaisi remains skeptical about the groups claiming responsibility for the abduction (another group, the Brigades of the Mujaheddin in Iraq, claimed that Sgrena had been killed, but evidence to the contrary has been subsequently confirmed). "We still have our doubts. We don't know if what they say is true. We believe that no Iraqi organization would organize a kidnapping of this kind, especially not of a journalist who intended to interview the refugees of Fallujah, victims of the American occupation
</snip>

This article makes a strong case on why Sgrena would be a thorn in the side to the US occupation - and gives rise to possible motive(s) for her shooting.

However the follow through doesn't suggest a deliberate attack.